okOh yes. Here's hoping for a complete revamp. (Today at 4)
Cradily should definitely be D-rank at best; there are plenty of better walls in UU, ex. Slowking, which definitely outclasses Cradily. Also, I think glaceon should be put into this because it is often overlooked due to a poor movepool, but it definitely should be considered in UU.
Any chance we could get Lopunny here, maybe D tier? It's got the most support options of any Pokemon in the tier, and a SubPunch set is surprisingly effective as it can spread Thunder Wave as well, which Chansey and Clefable can't Aromatherapy away due to fear of Focus Punch.
Yes. SD Quick Feet Ursaring can MAUL teams. Guts' Ursaring is scary too but it's kinda slow.Cradily fits pretty well in C rank, as it's somewhat viable even outside of sand with its awesome ability and great defenses. (One of) the best CurseTalkers in the tier.
Also, motion to add Ursaring to, say, C tier for being a BAMF and having viable sets with both of its abilities.
I think a good compromise would be to rank said pokemon twice. Once in it's best environment and the second time during a regular match.Why are rain dance sweepers a special case? I don't think we should treat the pokemon as if they only exist in the rain, but rather consider the support they need, and how that effects their overall effectiveness and thus ranking. We aren't currently looking at how effective these pokemon are within a team context, but rather how effective they are in themselves, ignoring the support required.
This extends to the recently mentioned Cradily. While Cradily can be a great pokemon, I think putting it in the C rank is definitely excessive. It requires you to basically waste a slot on your team for it to be very effective. Not to mention that if someone sees sand going up in UU, they'll probably be expecting a Cradily.
Likewise, Kabutops and Ludicolo don't deserve a "greater-than-S" ranking. That's ridiculous. If it were the case then they would deserve to be banned. Now they're obviously still quite good, as with a reasonable amount of support they can sweep quite effectively, and I would suggest Kabutops for S rank and Ludicolo for A.
To me ranking pokemon under different conditions is like ranking Lucario as A class and +2 Lucario as "Super Awesome Sweeper" Class. Or, perhaps more accurately, making a category of pokemon called "Really good with SR and 3 Layers of Spikes". The fact that the support is coming from a different pokemon in the form of Rain Dance (/Sandstorm/Hail/TR/whatever) shouldn't mean that we ignore that support in considering the pokemon.I think a good compromise would be to rank said pokemon twice. Once in it's best environment and the second time during a regular match.
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I don't know much about Kabutops and Ludicolo outside of rain. Kabutops seems to be an effective lead but I have no idea what Ludicolo does.
Good point I guess. I guess a change is for the best.To me ranking pokemon under different conditions is like ranking Lucario as A class and +2 Lucario as "Super Awesome Sweeper" Class. Or, perhaps more accurately, making a category of pokemon called "Really good with SR and 3 Layers of Spikes". The fact that the support is coming from a different pokemon in the form of Rain Dance (/Sandstorm/Hail/TR/whatever) shouldn't mean that we ignore that support in considering the pokemon.
Adding the rain category is doing two things:
1. Explaining the sets used.
I didn't think that that was the point of this, as there's no "Ambipom (lead)" or whatever else mentioned. Why do we feel the need to separate rain sweepers but not other things like leads, walls, etc.
2. Treating different roles as different pokemon.
I also don't agree with this. Having diverse roles is part of what makes a pokemon what it is. For example, Venusaur is a very versatile pokemon, and that is a large part of its S-Class ranking. But if we ranked each set separately I'm not sure that any would be S-Class.
In short, I think it's important to take into account all aspects of using a Pokemon in a battle (support required, ability to switch in, threat, unpredictability, etc). And in this case I think the support required is being ignored.
I fully understand if you don't agree with me. This is entirely your initiative and should go whatever way you want it to. These are just my thoughts.
yeah it really makes you wonder why its not used that much...of course it has its downsides but i dont see it overweighing the badI honestly don't see why is Jynx so low on the chart; Nasty Plot, Ice STAB, 115 base SpA, fast, a sleep move?