Move Z-Move Discussion

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Date Rape (Jynx) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lovely Kiss
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Psychic



Gen 4 Simulator (Garchomp) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sandstorm
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake



>COVERAGE (Lilligant) @ Psychium Z
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Petal Dance
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dream Eater



Discount Manaphy (Scolipede) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Tail
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab



[intense clapping] (Darmanitan) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Encore
- Belly Drum
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake



VERY fast plane (Togekiss) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Roost



[intense clapping v2] (Infernape) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Encore
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat



deathbro (Slowbro) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
- Scald



sexy birb (Skarmory) (F) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Captivate
- Roost
- Brave Bird



charming plane (Latias) @ Fairium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charm
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Stored Power



healthy glider (Mantine) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aqua Ring
- Amnesia
- Roost
- Scald



Invincible Dog (Umbreon) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Curse
- Payback

Rude Dog (Umbreon) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mean Look
- Curse
- Moonlight
- Baton Pass



cursed sphere (Ferrothorn) @ Grassium Z
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Ingrain
- Curse
- Leech Seed
- Iron Head



nasty clap bird (Chatot) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Tangled Feet
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Nasty Plot
- Boomburst
- Chatter



VERY fast waifu (Gardevoir) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moonblast



sexe clap lizard (Salazzle) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave



Accu-rat (Victini) @ Psychium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Inferno
- Psychic
- Thunder



Awoo~ (Arcanine) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Howl
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Wild Charge



Awooo~ but worse (Mightyena) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Howl
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Double-Edge



Hog > stall (Shaymin) @ Grassium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Seed Flare



Rocky Horror Show (Clefable) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
what does normalium encore do
 
oh thx thats not that great then z me first is better boosts +2 and does a z move off oponents attack if it isn't status
And what if they don't learn Me First (or Snatch, which has the same stat boost)?

They don't learn either move, so they'll have to stick with Encore.
 
true but why waste the z move on them then
That they don't learn any other speed boosting move.

And Darmanitan also has Belly Drum, so it's some sort of Double Dance.

They are gimmicks IMO, though.

EDIT: Darmanitan can indeed learn Snatch by breeding, my bad.
 
That they don't learn any other speed boosting move.

And Darmanitan also has Belly Drum, so it's some sort of Double Dance.

They are gimmicks IMO, though.

EDIT: Darmanitan can indeed learn Snatch by breeding, my bad.
z belly drum is something ive heard good things about maybe put him behind aurora veil from ninetails and z belly drum
 
A set I've used in RU with good success

Virizion @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Ice

Fightinium Z turns Focus Blast into a 190 BP All Out Pummeling, and unlike Focus Blast it won't miss. Giga Drain is the reliable STAB; it hits hard enough and keeps Virizion healthy. Hidden Power Ice hits Crobat and opposing Grass types, although Focus Blast is still stronger against them. EVs maximise Speed and power.

Here's a match where it sweeps after just one boost: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankrualpha-516433573
 
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*waves*

This point may have been driven home, but in my opinion the strongest use for attacking Z-Moves has to be lures... to be specific, fire-types packing Solar Beam

Heatran in particular comes to mind, as its Power Herb set is now entirely out-classed by the same set packing Grassnium Z. Bloom Doom comes out without Solar Beam's charge time and hits harder, making it the same strategy with more raw power and the ability to 50% ignore Protect... though Heatran would probably rather use Bloom Doom on the switch, obviously =P
 
I highly agree with the above post.

Power Herb is completely outclassed because it doesn't give extra power to the move and is vulnerable to Knock Off.

Just a "small" thing: as it is written here (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokemon-sun-moon-battle-mechanics-research.3586701), Z-attacking moves has the damage reduced to 25% if used towards a Protect user. The difference between 50% and 25% is really huge, even considering the base power boost.

Even Sitrus Berry + Belly Drum is totally outclassed by Z-Belly Drum in every possible way.

What I really like about the Z-boosted attacks is the ability to have a 100% accuracy onto one hit. This is relevant if you have moves with shaby accuracy like Stone Edge and Focus Blast. In this way you have a good chance to use your "otherwise risky" coverage move, but useful to get past your check.
 
Even Sitrus Berry + Belly Drum is totally outclassed by Z-Belly Drum in every possible way.
Not necessarily true, Z-Belly Drum heals before usage of the move, so while the Pokemon would be able to use the move no matter what their health at the time was, they would be left with 50% HP, while Sitrus Berry would leave the user with about 75% usually if used at full health. Therefore, if you plan on only using a fast Belly Drum user with a free switch in(such as Swift Swim Poliwrath), almost guaranteeing 100% health on use, Sitrus berry would be better. Also this leaves the Z move slot open for another mon to use.
 
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Wu guys, today I'd like to submit a set that I think will legitemly throw Suicune to BL if all the hazers (mantine/toxapex) stay in OU, based on Z-Aqua Ring.



Suicune @Waterium Z
Ability: Pressure
Evs: 252Hp/252Def/4Sdef
Bold Nature
-Aqua ring
-Scald
-Rest
-Calm mind

For those who doesn't know, Z-Aqua ring gives u a +1 defense bonus, while giving u the recovery of Leftovers (and can't be knocked off). Once u killed all the threats, this can destroy many teams by it's own, but lemme show u some calcs.

+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 219-258 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 169-201 (41.8 - 49.7%)
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Thunder Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 102-122 (25.2 - 30.1%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 133-156 (32.9 - 38.6%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yeah I took OU mons and some sets coming from ORAS, but u understand what I mean, I truzly think that this mon could be a pain to face if u're able to set it up.
If u think that set is fckin garbage, or the firest monster u've ever seen, I'm waiting for ur opinion. Peace
This set is not legitimately possible. Aqua Ring is locked to Relaxed nature Suicune. Doesn't hurt it defensively, but it needs the -Speed to be a legal set.
 
true but why waste the z move on them then
And what if they don't learn Me First (or Snatch, which has the same stat boost)?

They don't learn either move, so they'll have to stick with Encore.
The point of Z-Encore is that it boosts your speed, and encores the opponent into a potentially useless move, forcing them to switch, which gives a free turn to use your set-up move. I think it's actually a really potent set, but nothing that gets encore is super optimal for it, either having too low speed for a +1 boost to matter, no secondary set-up move, mediocre power (no boosting item hurts,) or mediocre coverage with the two damaging moves they're left with. For what it's worth, it could be pretty cool on Infernape, and maybe Togekiss, but not much else looks like a major threat with it.
 
After noticing it pop up both in this thread and the creative sets thread, I decided to test this out

Scolipede @ Waterium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Tail
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab

Basically the idea here is use Hydro Vortex to one shot bulky stuff you normally can't touch like Lando T. It's really a terrific set in this meta because it just dunks on both Tapu Fini and Tapu Bulu (potentially Tapu Lele depending on set). Seriously, just pair this set with some obvious Tapu Fini bait like Greninja or Keldeo and just do the double switch, it's one of the easier predications to make in the current OU meta. The other nice thing about this set is that Aqua Tail itself is a pretty useful move on its own, and I've used it many times after using the Z-move (unlike Bloom Doom Heatran for example).
 
Would offensive Calm Mind Jirachi be viable? Doom Desire becomes a 200 BP Corkscrew Crash, and it does a hell of a lot of damage at +1. Future Sight becomes a 195 power Shattered Psyche, although Dark types are immune.

Is Buginium Z even viable? Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that would benefit from Savage Spinout
 
Is Buginium Z even viable? Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that would benefit from Savage Spinout
I think not at all. A Z-Crystal is viable only depending if it can be a decent lure (i.e. Bloom Doom to deal with bulky Waters and Grounds). The question is: do you really want to use a Bug move as a lure?
Depending on the answer, you can understand if that crystal is worth using or not. I think no.
 
The point of Z-Encore is that it boosts your speed, and encores the opponent into a potentially useless move, forcing them to switch, which gives a free turn to use your set-up move. I think it's actually a really potent set, but nothing that gets encore is super optimal for it, either having too low speed for a +1 boost to matter, no secondary set-up move, mediocre power (no boosting item hurts,) or mediocre coverage with the two damaging moves they're left with. For what it's worth, it could be pretty cool on Infernape, and maybe Togekiss, but not much else looks like a major threat with it.
but infernape is already super fast and would probably die from the attack that comes after it would definitely help togekiss sweep with nasty plot and air slash
 
Would offensive Calm Mind Jirachi be viable? Doom Desire becomes a 200 BP Corkscrew Crash, and it does a hell of a lot of damage at +1. Future Sight becomes a 195 power Shattered Psyche, although Dark types are immune.

Is Buginium Z even viable? Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that would benefit from Savage Spinout
Only thing I can think of would be Venomoth's Quiver Dance set. Moth usually runs Bug Buzz, QD, Sleep Powder, and Sub/Roost. Thanks too Tinted Lens mono bug coverage isn't completely terrible. I'm not sure what tier he'll end up in though.
 
I think not at all. A Z-Crystal is viable only depending if it can be a decent lure (i.e. Bloom Doom to deal with bulky Waters and Grounds). The question is: do you really want to use a Bug move as a lure?
Depending on the answer, you can understand if that crystal is worth using or not. I think no.
I wouldn't say Z Crystals are only viable on lures - pokemon with unreliable stabs like terrakion can use them well too and of course special fighting types with focus blast
 
Yeah, but anyways a Buginium Z is not really worth using considering the general purpose of Z-Moves:

- A powerful lure move: Bug is super-effective versus Grass, Psychic and Dark. For Psychic, you can use Ghost (Hoopa-U is the only common one weak to Bug but not to Ghost), and for Grass and Dark there's Flying and Fighting, which have better coverage (and distribution). A second problem is that Megahorn, which has a limited distribution, is the only really powerful Bug-type move, and among non-Bug types... who uses it? Samurott? lol

- A powerful and reliable STAB move: At a first glance, Buginium Z works really well with Megahorn. That is until you realize that Heracross really needs a different item (or the Mega Stone), as does Scolipede (and if it uses a Z-Crystal, it's not for a powered-up STAB). The other good-for-OU Bug-types don't get the move. Perhaps Escavalier can find a use in lower tiers, but that's another world.

- Z-Status Bug moves: Not only hampered by limited distribution, but also generally bad extra effects. String Shot (+1 to Speed) is the only one that is not worthless, and even then, most of the Pokemon that could use Z-String Shot learn better Speed-boosting moves.
 
Never really post on here, but figured I'd come out of hiding to share this. Due to Landorus-T being on basically every single team I've been trying out Steelium-Z on the standard Excadrill Sand Rush sweeper set, it's been pretty amazing. Adamant at +1 (Intimidate into Swords Dance) Corkscrew Crash OHKO's Lando-T after Stealth Rock and sometimes even without it, who is more often than not a team's only check to Exca. It also helps that absolutely nobody expects it.

Excadrill (M) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

+1 252+ Atk Excadrill Corkscrew Crash vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 343-405 (90 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Excadrill Corkscrew Crash vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 343-405 (90 - 106.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
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Qwilfish @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Revenge

Qwilfish responds nicely to traditional answers to rain, especially those that counter Kingdra. Tapu Bulu and Tapu Fini cannot counter Qwilfish (in fact it can even set up on fini) and with Revenge and FighiniumZ, Qwilfish basically gets Close Combat to lure in and KO most Ferrothorn with a little prior damage, making it a really, really good offensive partner for Kingdra.

+2 252+ Atk Qwilfish Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 310-366 (88 - 103.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 412-492 (119.7 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Tapu Fini: 324-384 (94.1 - 111.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
After a few too many costly Stone Misses, I've found another good Rockium Z user: SD Tapu Bulu.

Tapu Bulu @ Rockium Z
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Stone Edge
- Taunt / Superpower
- Swords Dance

It does mean giving up Leftovers, but that's a small price to pay for these calcs:

+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Celesteela: 416-490 (104.7 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Skarmory: 319-376 (95.7 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 244-288 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Scizor: 349-411 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Scizor-Mega: 268-316 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur: 409-482 (112.6 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 302-356 (83.1 - 98%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Amoonguss: 425-500 (98.6 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 409-482 (106.2 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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After a few too many costly Stone Misses, I've found another good Rockinium Z user: SD Tapu Bulu.

Tapu Bulu @ Rockinium Z
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Stone Edge
- Taunt / Superpower
- Swords Dance

It does mean giving up Leftovers, but that's a small price to pay for these calcs:

+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Celesteela: 416-490 (104.7 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Skarmory: 319-376 (95.7 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 244-288 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Scizor: 349-411 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Scizor-Mega: 268-316 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur: 409-482 (112.6 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 302-356 (83.1 - 98%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Amoonguss: 425-500 (98.6 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 409-482 (106.2 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's actually a pretty cool set, it still reliably takes out most of the things that a Fightium Z set does, but with the added utility of killing Venusaur and Amoonguss in one hit.
 
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