I guess I'm to used to OU but yeah maybe you're right, it seems all the faster fire threats in UU are actually OHKO'd by Stone Edge so theres little reason for Bulldoze.
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UU Fire types
- Thread starter Petrico94
- Start date
Basically. Stuff like Victini, Darmanitan, and Rotom-H are all badly crippled by Stone Edge, and a follow-up Extreme Speed should finish them off.
Someone tried to make a full thread and kokokoto shut it down so I didn't bother. If you want a psychic fire who can use special attacks Victini's probably the better choice of the two any way.
Except Delphox is outclassed by Victini in nearly every single possible way, even as a special attacker, has a terrible movepool, and worse defenses. CM and slightly better speed is pretty much the only advantage Delphurbait gets.
Aren't most Entei CB?
I've seen a lot that are, but Entei has just enough of a movepool to pull off not locking himself with a Choice item. Life Orb trades a little bit of survivability and power for that sweet, sweet move switching. And being able to pop out an Extreme Speed in a pinch WITHOUT having to switch out and back in when something you weren't expecting switches in is always useful.
I'd be hesitant on using LO something with a SR weakness and no means of recovery but I suppose it is an option.
If you ran a life orb darmanitan with drain punch to heal the flare blitz recoil how would it go?
Darm doesn't learn Drain Punch.
Which pokemon would be best used to take out possible checks and counters? Popular matchups against these fire-types usually include Vaporeon, Milotic(?) and Hippowdon for dem physically defensive guys. (mostly I'm looking at Darm) What teammates would best serve in order to take out the possible checks? I usually like to include Raikou w/ Grass Knot to take out both water types and ground types, but I'm not sure what others to use. It'd be good to have an offensive synergy core with a strong attacker, such as darm, chandelure, or victini.
Raikou doesnt learn grass knot... but hp grass is nice for hitting swampert and rhyperior. Tbh i am finding physically offensive celebii + willowisp Darm. Weird? i know, but they create a uturn combo and willo on darm is great at smacking hippo on the switch. You do lose a coverage move witch is annoying, but it is worth it and good for a suprise
With good bulk, offenses, and the right movepool, A Sunny Day set for Victini seems very promising on paper (I haven't tested it yet) with its great wallbreaking and luring prowess.
Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Sunny Day
- V-Create
- Solarbeam
- Psychic / Blue Flare / Focus Blast
Unlike the Choiced variants -Scarf and Band- this set sacrifices speed and immediate power for flexible wallbreaking; thus, unpredictability and the ability to switch moves are important points that help perform its task more effectively. With this in mind, the SunnyBeamCreate does just that to great effect. Since Victini is basically a magnet to bulky Water- and Rock-types, the SunnyBeam combo would be a perfect answer to those looking to tank a predicted V-Create. And so, it then allows Victini to break past through these usual switch-ins with impunity. Due to its consistently stronger damage output, it can net potential OHKO's that Grass Knot can't do otherwise. To abuse Sunny Day further, an obligatory Fire STAB is obviously a must and V-Create is chosen as a means to combat specially-defensive Pokemon. An uninvested V-Create seems unappealing, but under the sun with Life Orb equipped, it is deceptively strong having only a small differential power output in comparison to a Banded Victini. For the last slot, it is a toss up between Psychic -optional STAB-, Blue Flare -alternative Fire STAB as V-Create stat drops might become a problem-, and Focus Blast -mainly for Houndoom-.
As for support, Victini generally enjoys those that increases its longevity -Rapid Spin, Defog, Cleric support, etc- and efficiency to break through Pokemon -Hazards, Offensive Partners, etc-. Sticky Web or Tailwind support is also cool to patch up Victini's vulnerability to revenge killers. It also has the added benefit to pave way for a late-game cleaning under the right circumstances.
Here are some calcs to exhibit Sunny Day Victini's frightening power:
Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Sunny Day
- V-Create
- Solarbeam
- Psychic / Blue Flare / Focus Blast
Unlike the Choiced variants -Scarf and Band- this set sacrifices speed and immediate power for flexible wallbreaking; thus, unpredictability and the ability to switch moves are important points that help perform its task more effectively. With this in mind, the SunnyBeamCreate does just that to great effect. Since Victini is basically a magnet to bulky Water- and Rock-types, the SunnyBeam combo would be a perfect answer to those looking to tank a predicted V-Create. And so, it then allows Victini to break past through these usual switch-ins with impunity. Due to its consistently stronger damage output, it can net potential OHKO's that Grass Knot can't do otherwise. To abuse Sunny Day further, an obligatory Fire STAB is obviously a must and V-Create is chosen as a means to combat specially-defensive Pokemon. An uninvested V-Create seems unappealing, but under the sun with Life Orb equipped, it is deceptively strong having only a small differential power output in comparison to a Banded Victini. For the last slot, it is a toss up between Psychic -optional STAB-, Blue Flare -alternative Fire STAB as V-Create stat drops might become a problem-, and Focus Blast -mainly for Houndoom-.
As for support, Victini generally enjoys those that increases its longevity -Rapid Spin, Defog, Cleric support, etc- and efficiency to break through Pokemon -Hazards, Offensive Partners, etc-. Sticky Web or Tailwind support is also cool to patch up Victini's vulnerability to revenge killers. It also has the added benefit to pave way for a late-game cleaning under the right circumstances.
Here are some calcs to exhibit Sunny Day Victini's frightening power:
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 341-403 (86.5 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Swampert: 619-728 (153.2 - 180.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 441-519 (101.6 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 296-351 (63.7 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Vaporeon can can Wish+Protect stall at full health)
0 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew in Sun: 376-445 (93 - 110.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
0 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Umbreon in Sun: 348-411 (88.3 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
0 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges in Sun: 519-610 (144.1 - 169.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Snorlax in Sun: 269-317 (51.3 - 60.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 86 SpD Eviolite Porygon2 in Sun: 222-263 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos in Sun: 160-187 (41.6 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (77.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Swampert: 619-728 (153.2 - 180.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 441-519 (101.6 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 296-351 (63.7 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Vaporeon can can Wish+Protect stall at full health)
0 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew in Sun: 376-445 (93 - 110.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
0 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Umbreon in Sun: 348-411 (88.3 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
0 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges in Sun: 519-610 (144.1 - 169.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Snorlax in Sun: 269-317 (51.3 - 60.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 86 SpD Eviolite Porygon2 in Sun: 222-263 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos in Sun: 160-187 (41.6 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (77.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
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I don't know why you're running 4 Defense EVs when your nature drops your Defense, instead of getting just that little bit of extra Attack muscle.
How much does that Victini's Solar Beam do to Blastoise?
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blastoise: 273-322 (75.4 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
http://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/
Most likely he's asking damage calcs for Mega-Blastoise. ~(-u-)~
252 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 250-296 (69 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Unfortunately, Mega Blastoise remains a cloudy hindrance to Sunny Day Victini's onslaught. Prior damage is a must before going on for the kill which is to say, quite inconvenient.
Some Japanese guy used it against me though I looked it up and it doesn't seem to be able to learn it. Maybe it was hacked?
Or maybe Pokemon Z is already out ;)
Hello Petricio, I have a few changes for the sets:
105/140/55/30/55/95
Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf/Life Orb/Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower/Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
Without Jolly you will lose out on outspeeding a lot of important pokemon, notably Heracross and Krookodile.
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spd
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Extreme Speed
With the given speed you can outspeed and burn Honchkrow before it is able to 2HKO you with Brave Bird after Stealth Rocks.
115/115/85/90/75/100
Entei @ Choice Band/Leftovers/Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant(event)
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz(event)/Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- ExtremeSpeed(event)
Drop Bulldoze, Bulldoze is awful. Sacred Fire is what makes Entei stand out and should never be slashed.
105/140/55/30/55/95
Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf/Choice Band/Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force/Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- U-turn/Earthquake
Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf/Life Orb/Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower/Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
Without Jolly you will lose out on outspeeding a lot of important pokemon, notably Heracross and Krookodile.
Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spd
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Extreme Speed
With the given speed you can outspeed and burn Honchkrow before it is able to 2HKO you with Brave Bird after Stealth Rocks.
115/115/85/90/75/100
Entei @ Leftovers/Choice Band/Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant(event)/Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire/Flare Blitz(event)
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge/Bulldoze
- Bulldoze/ExtremeSpeed(event)
Entei @ Choice Band/Leftovers/Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant(event)
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz(event)/Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- ExtremeSpeed(event)
Drop Bulldoze, Bulldoze is awful. Sacred Fire is what makes Entei stand out and should never be slashed.
And for the rest of the mons:
Add a Mixtini to the Victini sets:
Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Thunder/Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast
Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Flame Charge/Destiny Bond
I think Nasty Plot is superior to the Sunny Day set because it gives you a much larger boost and you don't lose HP every turn, but if you can show me a replay where a Sunny Day Houndoom does a lot more work than a normal one wouldve done, please surprise me.
Chandelure sets should be split into two Scarf/Specs set and the subsplit set, and I would either get rid of Typhlosion and Moltres, or change Moltres his set to something like defensive subroost.
Add a Mixtini to the Victini sets:
Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Thunder/Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast
Remove any mention of normal Houndoom, it's terrible. As for the Mega-Houndoom set, it should look something like this:Pre Mega:75/90/50/110/80/95
PostMega:75/90/90/140/90/115
Base
Houndoom @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire/Unnerve
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SAtk / 252 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Fire Blast
- Crunch/HP Grass
(Nasty Plot + special attacks is also an option)
Mega
Houndoom @ Houndoomite
Ability: Solar Power (Warning: Do not leave in Sun for extended periods of time)
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SDef / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse/Substitute
- Nasty Plot/Sunny Day
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb/HPGrass/Solarbeam
Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Flame Charge/Destiny Bond
I think Nasty Plot is superior to the Sunny Day set because it gives you a much larger boost and you don't lose HP every turn, but if you can show me a replay where a Sunny Day Houndoom does a lot more work than a normal one wouldve done, please surprise me.
Chandelure sets should be split into two Scarf/Specs set and the subsplit set, and I would either get rid of Typhlosion and Moltres, or change Moltres his set to something like defensive subroost.
Sunny day has the advantage of being able to use Solar Beam but that's about it I guess.
I guess it could still be a set, but perhaps a sunny day set AND a single nasty plot set should be up then.