SPOILERS! Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon In-Game Discussion

So, I went with my team from Moon-bred babies as I have said before, going for Unique Type Challenge: AloRaichuu, Primarina, Froslass, Roserade, Dusk-Lycanroc, Loppunny.
I limited my usage of that Experience Share and....

Some bosses were actually surprising.

Totem Araqnid managed to score few KOs since I held myself from evolving my Pichu, the first one to cause quite trouble.

Totem Togedemaru actually nearly swept my whole team, barely winning it with one last Pokemon on her last leg. That Skarmdog is really... really obnoxious, foiling my attempt to inflict status with Roserade with Tailwind messing my attack timings. Had I not tried Mantine Surf and got Drill Runner on Dusk-roc, I and my team would be the one sent to PokeCen's ER.
Also, Totem Togedemaru looks angry, it's funny scary. Yeah, I think Z-Energy is what drives Pokemon mad, SuMn Lusamine's team being looking mad is probably the same with Totems and just us using Z-Move on our own Pokemon, not much by Nihilego's toxins.

Ultra Necrozma. Holy... It outsped my quickest mon (AloRaichu and DuskRoc) and OHKOed them so easily. Only barely managed to win with Primarina switching on incoming Dragon Pulse, equipped with Assault Vest (accidentally brought from Moon) and one or two Rotopon stat buff. All of his attack hits hard. It's exciting, but only when I have overleveled it by around 5 levels. So he's banished to AG yet with Mega-Rayquaza? lolww

That Blasephalon... I didn't prepare enough since I wanted to go quickly, but I had to forget catching one in Heal Ball after it almost completely swept my team.

And funnily, without Primarina (was overleveled, kept it) I had a bit trouble facing Maxie while my AloRaichu predictably swept the floor with Archie and Kyogre's faces.



While this is moderately difficult game for casuals, I have hard time believing how some people will succeed Nuzlocke. Especially with that Ultra-Necrozma.
 
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What? People are finding Togedemaru hard? I one-shot that piece of garbage with my Mudsdale's High Horsepower. Sure I gambled to not get flinched by Iron Head but still...
 
What? People are finding Togedemaru hard? I one-shot that piece of garbage with my Mudsdale's High Horsepower. Sure I gambled to not get flinched by Iron Head but still...
That's because you had a Pokemon that directly counters Togedemaru with a powerful 4x effective move.
 
Is it me or there are too few major trainers with special attacking Pokemon?

Arbok is putting so much work for my team it's starting to stop being funny by just switching in and activating Intimidate, and Glaring and Screeching everything it can. And now, my Shelgon is close to evolving so it's yet another Intimidate...
 
Is it me or there are too few major trainers with special attacking Pokemon?

Arbok is putting so much work for my team it's starting to stop being funny by just switching in and activating Intimidate. And now, my Shelgon is close to evolving so it's yet another Intimidate...
Maybe they just find you to be so... Intimidating.

And that's my lame joke quota for the day.
 
Going back to some areas that I incompletely explored (had to save some adventures for my team's latecomers) and, while at Brooklet Hill, I noticed that Basculin gets Aqua Tail at level 20, already has Crunch by that point, and gains Double-Edge just six levels after that. Not sure how it would fare late game but Adaptability Aqua Tail from that 92 Attack is significantly stronger than anything else I can think of at that point (not to mention with Waterium Z). Sounds like a solid choice if you want a strong Water Pokémon.
 
I also find there to be a depressingly high amount of Physical-oriented trainers, to the point where sweeping them with Inkay/Malamar was a novelty that didn't last long. Getting Swagger, Foul Play and Reflect so early is ridiculous, and the AI seems to have no clue how to deal with Contrary.
 

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So finally got to a point where they really started changing the story! Only took them until the moment before the Lusamine battle during the Aether Paradise raid.

Changes To Lusamine:
So Lusamine's goal has been changed... and this change has made her into an even worse character, both in personality and game role. In SM she had the excuse of mistreating Gladion and Lillie due to going UB crazy after Mohn's disappearance (and maybe somehow getting inflicted by Nihilego venom?). But here, she has none. Yes, she still is crazy, but it's not because she wants to be with the Ultra Beasts. Her goal is to capture Necrozma to prevent it from stealing the light of Alola (and the rest of the Pokemon World, seriously why is it just Alola's light the only concern here where the entire Pokemon World's light), even if Gladion says if its for selfish reasons he does also says she believes she's doing the right thing. So, if that's the case, why did she dress Lillie as Nihilego? Why does she not care she's sacrificing Cosmog's life? Why does she say Lillie and Gladion are no more deserving of her love? In SM this is because she cared only for being with the Ultra Beasts. She focused the obsession on her kids which is why she had them dress a certain way, when they ran away her already frail sanity saw it as an objection to her love via doting on them, and since she only cares about being with the Nihilego she doesn't care if Cosmog dies. Heck, her cryo-freezing Pokemon also doesn't make sense. At least, from how they changed the game.

The problem with USUM Lusamine is that they changed the payoff but didn't change the character. This Lusamine is still very much the Lusamine from SM, but where in SM we got the pay off of her going "s**** you all! I'm going to Ultra Space to be with my Nihilego!" in USUM he goals we made more noble yet she's still crazy, meaning it feels like she's bipolar (and that's not the intention). This also results in other payoffs from SM to not happen, mainly Gladion and Type: Null battling Nihilego. Gladion doing nothing after Lusamine tells him that she'll be perfectly fine going after Necrozma felt like a disappointing conclusion to his story arc, indeed all his and Type: Nulls struggles meant nothing in the end.

If this was where they wanted to go with Lusamine they had to change the story around a bit. For one, maybe have Lillie wearing clothing that's similar to Lusamine instead of looking like a Nihilego. You can keep the parts of her doting on Lillie and Gladion after their father's disappearance, but it's now from a fear of losing them instead of an obsession with Ultra Beasts (also I'd change her thinking of "everything would be better if kids listened to their parents" to "everything would be better if everyone listened to me", and they can have the reason for this belief being Lusamine warned Mohn about the dangers with the Ultra Wormholes but Mohn didn't listen... resulting him getting sucked into one). As for Cosmog, upon finding out about Alola's light being in danger and Cosmog is the key but it'll die if she uses it, she'll use the justification it's for the greater good/needs of the many outweigh needs of a few but she'll still feel terrible she had to kill an innocent Pokemon (which could be why she's dedicated to just catching Necrozma, she had to kill one Pokemon (as far as she knew) already and she wasn't going to kill another even if it's a danger to the world). Finally she wouldn't hate her kids, rather she'd have conflicting feelings of frustration (Lusamine is only doing what she believes she has to do) but also a sense of pride in them (despite her reasoning, both Gladion and Lillie ran away to save a Pokemon's life, the very reason the Aether Foundation was formed to do). I'd also get rid of the cyro room (instead replacing it with a stargate looking room) and after battling the player and opening the portal have a Nihilego fly out and attack her, Gladion then sending Type: Null out to save her, it evolving to Silvally to do so (aka similar to what they did in the anime). After her rescue and going into the portal she finally breaks down and telling Lillie and Gladion she's proud of them saying she will come back with their father but if she doesn't then the Aether Foundation is in their hands. Portal closes.

Slight Dialogue Changes:
There was also some other dialogue changes before and during the Aether Paradise raid I just want to mention.

First is what Plumeria says to Lillie, it's extended to Plumeria respecting Lillie for what she did even if they're now going to bring her and Cosmog back to her mother. I like this, it shows Plumeria is more than just a lackey and I'm curious how it'll change the scene at Poni Valley where in SM she gave her respect to Lillie. I'm also hoping this means they do plan on doing more with Plumeria.

Second is the reason Gladion battles the player upon finding out Lillie and Nebby have been taken. In SM it was because he was angry at the player and Hau for not doing what he asked them to do by protecting Cosmog. In USUM, it's because he needs to blow off some steam. Um, time and place. SM made sense, he was in a middle of a rage and wasn't thinking clearly, even saying so after the battle. In USUM, he doesn't blame the player and Hau so why are you wasting time with an unnecessary battle when Lillie and Nebby are in danger? The original scene also could be seen as Gladion misusing the power of Type: Null, using it as a tool to force his beliefs so that later when he uses it to battle the Nihilego it's the right thing as that's Type: Null's purpose (and next time we see them it has evolved into a Silvally, showing their friendship peaked probably due to that moment). In USUM there's no purpose, it's a battle for sake of a battle.

Finally one of my favorite scenes was, for lack of a better word, ruined. In SM, just before going to the Aether Mansion you get ambushed by Faba. Hau then asks if Faba has the keys to open the door, Faba says he does, and Hau then points out had Faba hid they would have had no way of proceeding, effectively making Faba look like a fool. In USUM, Faba ambushes them, but this time Hau's "burn" moment is pointing out that Faba confirmed that they were going the right way to the Aether Mansion. What? Not just a few seconds ago we had a cutscene where Wicke told the player, Gladion, and Hau to go to the mansion and Gladion knew where to go, Aether Paradise and the Mansion is his home (in Alola). SM made sense, it was something they needed Faba there for thus why he was an idiot for not hiding. But in USUM, if Faba wasn't there (and the door was open which looked like it was) nothing would change, they'd just proceed to battling Team Skull without battling Faba and a few Aether Employees.

Poseless Z-Crystals:
Speaking of Faba, sadly looks like so far only the Flying Z-Crystal had someone appear to teach the pose (and Pikachu Z-Crystal, sorta though that's the joke, you supposedly were shown the pose by a Pikachu). After beating Guzma I was kind of expecting Guzma to give you the Bug Z-Crystal out of a feeling of obligation, but instead you just get it the same way as you did before, out of the chest, and no one showing you the pose (they also changed the bonus scene of you sitting in Guzma's chair, it was still funny what happened but not as funny as in SM). Then when I got the Psychic Z-Crystal from the desert nothing either, I was kind of expecting Faba to show up. "Well it wouldn't make sense as you could get it during the Aether Raid". In that case block the Psychic Z-Crystal for at least until after the Aether Raid. Like have it behind a Machamp Push block, and when you get it Faba comes up, reveals that with Gladion taking over Aether Foundation he needs to start building a good appearance (though under his breath reveal he actually wanted to the Psychic Z-Crystal) so shows you the pose and tells you to tell Gladion how he helped you.
But my thoughts aside, yeah, it's beginning to look like the only reason Kahili showed you her pose was just so they could have a scene of her in the commercial to make you think she was playing a more active role in the game; trailers always lie (okay, being less pessimistic, adding her there I guess makes her appearance as an Elite Four member less random?).

Still Can't Go There:
Speaking of Kahili, that reminds me I still don't think you can go onto the golf course. Not only that, the Aether Mansion is still under lockdown (so you gave the smaller hotel an additional floor or miscellaneous stuff but left the Aether Mansion, a location we'd like to explore, still just 3 rooms?). AND I think they made the Lake of Moone/Sunne alter place bigger, like in the background there's additional paths yet you can't go there (also the ruins leading up to the alter has big doors lining the halls, don't remember if they were there in the original but still).
I remember a small complaint about the map reveal is that they didn't really add any new locations aside a few beaches. Now I pointed that there was still plenty of opportunities to add new locations via inside buildings or caves or previous locked off areas. Now we did get revealed a lot of this probably went into expanding Ultra Space, but still the above locations we have "access" to before then stand out. Like, isn't this suppose to be the ULTRA version of Sun & Moon? Then why aren't these previous unexplorable locations still unexplorable?

Something Funny:
To lighten the mood, how about something I found funny: all the Totem Stickers in Po Town. Especially the one which was actually 3 stacked on top of each other. And makes total sense why they were there and Ilima is an idiot: since the stickers were in public locations, Team Skull just took the ones they found and, not knowing what to do with them, plastered them all over Po Town to decorate the place.
Also Seafolk Village has many lying around... especially on boats... for a group of people who are known to not settle in one location and could leave at any time with their boat.
Ilima did you put any thought into these Totem Stickers locations?
 
So finally got to a point where they really started changing the story! Only took them until the moment before the Lusamine battle during the Aether Paradise raid.

Changes To Lusamine:
So Lusamine's goal has been changed... and this change has made her into an even worse character, both in personality and game role. In SM she had the excuse of mistreating Gladion and Lillie due to going UB crazy after Mohn's disappearance (and maybe somehow getting inflicted by Nihilego venom?). But here, she has none. Yes, she still is crazy, but it's not because she wants to be with the Ultra Beasts. Her goal is to capture Necrozma to prevent it from stealing the light of Alola (and the rest of the Pokemon World, seriously why is it just Alola's light the only concern here where the entire Pokemon World's light), even if Gladion says if its for selfish reasons he does also says she believes she's doing the right thing. So, if that's the case, why did she dress Lillie as Nihilego? Why does she not care she's sacrificing Cosmog's life? Why does she say Lillie and Gladion are no more deserving of her love? In SM this is because she cared only for being with the Ultra Beasts. She focused the obsession on her kids which is why she had them dress a certain way, when they ran away her already frail sanity saw it as an objection to her love via doting on them, and since she only cares about being with the Nihilego she doesn't care if Cosmog dies. Heck, her cryo-freezing Pokemon also doesn't make sense. At least, from how they changed the game.

The problem with USUM Lusamine is that they changed the payoff but didn't change the character. This Lusamine is still very much the Lusamine from SM, but where in SM we got the pay off of her going "s**** you all! I'm going to Ultra Space to be with my Nihilego!" in USUM he goals we made more noble yet she's still crazy, meaning it feels like she's bipolar (and that's not the intention). This also results in other payoffs from SM to not happen, mainly Gladion and Type: Null battling Nihilego. Gladion doing nothing after Lusamine tells him that she'll be perfectly fine going after Necrozma felt like a disappointing conclusion to his story arc, indeed all his and Type: Nulls struggles meant nothing in the end.
Lusamine dressing Lillie like Nihilego is just a coincidence in-universe and meant to be used as a visual metaphor for the player. Note the most we get about this is that Lusamine has always dressed Lillie, and Gladion, in ways she thinks is best, likely even before the usum plot. The full metaphor is weaker in USUM, but still has enough Lusamine motifs that it can stand on its own.
You can believe you're doing the right thing and being doing it in the worst way possible. This is the crux of her character even in SM: she was an overbearing mother who went off the deep end and became even more controlling & obsessive, believing she knows best.
I can easily believe that the same person who, despite being obsessed with ultra beasts would cryofreeze normal pokemon to preserve them, would also believe only she can save the world from necrozma through any means necessary. A very can't make an omelette without cracking a few eggs person.
 
I too am a little confused at the lack of a connection between Lusamine's "Gotta save 'em all!" and "But I hate you two for defying me"

I think Lusamine would have done the same things as in SM had the Ultra Recon Squad not arrived and said "Look, Necrozma has to be stopped and we can combine our technology to deal with it before it dooms us all" and she got a tiny bit of sanity back. If not, she'd have kept her initial goal of satisfying her Nihilego... thing.

UPDATE:

Alright, having spoiled myself about Ultra Necrozma wasn't the brightest idea as I could get prepared before hand with a Focus Sash (the one the Dancer near Seafolk Village gives you) on Arbok to Haze its stat boosts away (though I thought it was +2 to everything...), then finish it off with Decidueye's Sinister Arrow Raid + Sucker Punch. Too anticlimatic for what it should have been otherwise.

That being said... I love how the game can let you pretend Nebby is not even a thing after it evolves, making you use the other legendary for the "Andy Asteroids?" wormhole and letting you use it again to come back. Which I did, because Lunala is far cooler than Solgaleo.

Lusamine's character seems to be portrayed better in this section, unlike SM as this time there's a harsher dose of reality for her. Though this makes Nihilego's appearance in the first Aether Paradise travel feel very out of place.
 
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I too am a little confused at the lack of a connection between Lusamine's "Gotta save 'em all!" and "But I hate you two for defying me"

I think Lusamine would have done the same things as in SM had the Ultra Recon Squad not arrived and said "Look, Necrozma has to be stopped and we can combine our technology to deal with it before it dooms us all" and she got a tiny bit of sanity back. If not, she'd have kept her initial goal of satisfying her Nihilego... thing.

UPDATE:

Alright, having spoiled myself about Ultra Necrozma wasn't the brightest idea as I could get prepared before hand with a Focus Sash (the one the Dancer near Seafolk Village gives you) on Arbok to Haze its stat boosts away (though I thought it was +2 to everything...), then finish it off with Decidueye's Sinister Arrow Raid + Sucker Punch. Too anticlimatic for what it should have been otherwise.

That being said... I love how the game can let you pretend Nebby is not even a thing after it evolves, making you use the other legendary for the "Andy Asteroids?" wormhole and letting you use it again to come back. Which I did, because Lunala is far cooler than Solgaleo.

Lusamine's character seems to be portrayed better in this section, unlike SM as this time there's a harsher dose of reality for her. Though this makes Nihilego's appearance in the first Aether Paradise travel feel very out of place.
I honestly felt that instead of nihilego appearing it should have been the the newly released ones, just to show off that there is new ultra beasts.

For ultra necrozma I had to use the rotom power to increase my stats then stall out photon geysers pp. I do think that the level jump was too high but I guess they we're taking in account for pokemon refresh and rotom power into account.

I do think that fight though forced them to give dark types like inkay, murkrow and zorua early so casuals would at least have a dark type for it.
 
I feel like the U.Necrozma fight is meant to be like this. It's easy if you know it's coming so you can prep, and hard if you know nothing and just jump right in like I did. I mean, isn't that how all game bosses are? If you know the mechanics, the fight is always easier. I'm just glad Gamefreak gave us something actually rather tough when going in blind unlike older games where it was "The challenge is to catch it unless you have a master ball but otherwise just brute force it easy". Sure it's still easy if you know about it, but I'd just consider this a step in the right direction.
 
Having just cleared the Elite 4, I feel I can now give adequate 2 cents on the Lusamine character shift. Yeah, the Ultra Recon's involvement in the story, and the lack of Nihilego poison is basically where her character hinges off from before, but I still prefer the S/M version of Lusamine to what we have here. This just seems... half assed in a way I can't really describe. They want to keep her a major villain, but make her more relatable and understanding than in her base games, perhaps in conjunction with the anime's portayal of a much less evil Lusamine... but the depth of the madness she had in S/M made her feel very unique and dangerous, as opposed to the teetering extremist we had here.

Really, that's my big beef with USUM in general, aside from Rotom Dex and how... polarizing it is. Many of my favorite little story bits and character interactions from the base game (Lillie growing a spine by telling her mother off, and the moment of bonding between the PC and her on Exeggutor island, for starters) are no longer here, and instead are replaced with the Ultra Recon Squad and their "We lost our light, fear Necrozma!" stuff. The story overall just feels weaker trying to accommodate the new Necrozma plot.

As for the game itself, having cleared it with a rotation squad of 24 mons... DO NOT TRY IT. JUST, DO NOT. In X and Y, I could get away with this rather easily with how easy the games were, same as ORAS. S/M, it only became a problem once I reached Poni Island, and I needed to grind... But here, the increased levels after the Nihilego fight and the buffed totems in general means trying to clear the game as such without doing massive grinding is a death sentence. Trying to deal with Totem Togedemaru with lv. 28 mons, then Guzma and his Golisopod and Masquerain right afterward was not a fun time, and dealing with Ultra Necrozma with lv. 40's devolved into soft resetting over and over just hoping the Focus Bands I had would proc and it would die. If you want to make yourself suffer, feel free to try the 24 mon rotation team with the Exp. Broke... but really, YOU NEED IT FOR THIS GAME.
 
Regarding Lusamine, I agree about her tone shift from SM being a downgrade, but to play devil's advocate there are good points over SM here. In SM, Lusamine was stricken with the poison so Lillie yadda yadda yadda we should all probably know this. But in USUM, we actually see Lusamine reform rather than just vaguely get told that "oh she's slowly doing better". And I do see why USUM had to do a tone shift since the existence of the Ultra Recon Squad would change things regardless. I doubt they'd of willingly helped someone they'd know was inflicted by Nihilego. I also find this tone shift makes it so SM isn't irrelevant like previous third versions have (BW2 doesn't count here because they're sequels). So while the tone shift does hamper Lusamine's reasoning, it does bring some good things too.

Also yeah can we get a mute Rotom button, Gamefreak? So many times I've gone to push its eyes and it just starts talking right before I do so.
 
I'm fine with Lusamine being an extremist here now, but yeah, since they didn't change things as others have said, this actually causes confusion to me with too many unresolved plotholes by lack of relations to points. That Nihilego encounter make no less sense now (OK, they just experimented the wormhole), and while sacrificing Nebby can be explained, her treatment to her children make no sense other than being an abusive mom for the sake of being one (At least her confusion of her mistreatment as "her love" is understandable when Nihilego is involved, but I don't think she's dumb enough to confuse that when she's mentally more stable). That Type: Null also make less sense now, although it was possible that she hold grudges to UB now since Mohn's disappearance, but why it has to be in Gladio's hand is also making no sense other than the plot demands it without explanation, and unsurprisingly they wasted its potential again to take story role like in the anime.
Maybe this can get better, alternatively from Pikachu's suggestion, that they could have also involved Nihilego too instead and make Lusamine still retain her obsessive insanity, while also having this new "noble cause" she doesn't give up to the toxin in the same time, making her have both two goals. Heck, I'd love if we get to see Motherbeast vs Necrozma even just briefly.

At least true enough, this gives Lillie justified reason to forgive Lusamine than in SM where it's jarringly easily forgiven, the major problem she had in the original SM that some people complained.

It feels like SuMn Lusamine is more solid for a character than USM one. No wonder... I'd have thought Sakaki/Giovanni would be owned by SuMn Lusamine, but not her here.

At least this is first time I can see that the anime is actually more interesting than the game, since they developed Lusamine's personality much better than here. lolw


EDIT: Yes, now I understand other problem that was missing. We get to know Lillie's relations more personally in SuMn than in U-SM. It's another that was missing.
 
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People keep saying the Nihilego encounter makes no sense, but they literally explain it in the same scene: they were experimenting with ultra holes as part of their research against necrozma. They just changed it so that instead of experiments to bring forth nihilego, it was just wormholes, in general, and that happened to open up to nihilego's.

Also type null still makes sense? Reminder that she still commissioned the thing in SM, where the end goal was letting them run all over alola. You can pretty much track her mental state over the implied actions:
-mohn goes missing
-lusamine picks up the research
-wanting to find mohn turns to blaming ultra beasts &/or, they felt the need to have a killer on hand if they started exploring the worm holes) and commissions the type all experiments
-at some point, that hate fades into something else. In SM obviously it just becomes obsession above all else: Likely partially caused by the failure of the type alls, partially due to gladion running off, partialyl due to years of studying them.

The events that lead to Lusamine opening wormholes and wanting to ruin Alola in SM still happened, they just landed on a different result while still focusing on her growing obsession with control and "protecting". The implication is Lusamine has always been somewhat controlling, and this just got worse following Mohn's disappearance and then as Lillie puts it even worse when Gladion ran away.

Like guys, come on. She literally says, to Lille "I know even my fathomless love will even save someone like you...when I protect thsi entire world from darkness!"
She's so self centered she presents her love as being so great it will redeem the worthless Lillie
"But if [cosmog's death] will save the world for all of my beloved Pokemon, then that is what I will do"
She is so self centered and obsessed with "protection" she thinks of no other possible ways.
"But if the light is stolen from this world, then I won't be able to love my babies any longer"
Like jesus just get a load of her
"I will even defeat poor Necrozma"
"But I will save [gladion & lille]. With all the endless love of hte president of the Aether Foundation, as someone tasked with the protection of all Pokemon..."
MOTHER KNOWS BEST

USUM lusamine is 100% in character.
 
USUM lusamine is 100% in character.
Well, there's a difference with being in character and having that character being presented. Yes, USUM Lusamine is 100% in character, but to some opinions it's not presented as well as SM's presented it. A big part in how you present a character is their interactions and relationships with other characters. In particular, the interactions with Lillie regarding Lusamine. In SM, we had a very touching heart-to-heart with Lillie in a little alcove where we learned more about the straining connection between the two since Lusamine was more focused/obsessed with her research and started to view Lillie as an object to protect rather than a person to love. There was even a touching scene inside the Aether Paradise of Lillie talking about how her and Lusamine used to sleep in the bed and about how caring Lusamine was before her obsession took hold. We're never directly told it was regarding Mohn here, we only learned it later at the credits party. Meanwhile in USUM, Gladion just straight up says that it's because of their father disappearing and Lusamine basically just says yes then leaves. It's harder to connect with Lusamine in USUM because all of her reasoning is either stated to your face or just brushed aside. We personally know more since we played SM and already have the info, but that's only because we did play both. We know Lusamine's story before going into this, so we can naturally fill the blanks as we go. She's still completely in character, just not presented as much.
 
So I just finished the main story and I have to say the game was a huge letdown to me. Just gonna throw in some scattered thoughts in here.

When they first announced USUM, I wasn't quite excited for it given that SM had just come out over half a year earlier. They reasoned that later (I think it was in the Famitsu interview) that they didn't want fans to have settled on an opinion of Alola, which was fair enough, I suppose. I'm not the type that desperately want them to remake a previous generation, given that I had only played Red, Y, and ORAS before SM last year. Even then, I didn't particularly like SM and its new features (Z Moves, Rotom Dex, Poke Finder, Festival Plaza), though I like Poke Pelago. I had hoped that it would at least be a sequel rather than a story in an alternate universe just to make it seem more like a new game. But with each new trailer and information, I actually started to look forward to the game, especially after the Necrozma (incomplete story in SM) storyline reveal and Ultra Recon Squad.

An hour or so into the game, I was back at the Trainer School and it felt more like a leash around my neck more than hand holding. Okay, sure, new players need to learn how to play the game, I understand that, so whatever. There was just too much dialogue for my liking (similar to XY), I eventually found myself mashing A while doing something else to get by. Honestly the gameplay itself was very similar to SM, so I'll move on from that.

I do think they overhyped the story with Necrozma and Ultra Recon Squad. In the end, Lusamine wanted to control Necrozma, Necrozma says no, and they leave it to you to defeat it. There really isn't much of a plot in there, or so it seems. The Ultra Recon Squad became the Team Skull of this game, where they have minimal influence and only provide you with some background information on Necrozma. Sure, they allow you to travel between Ultra Wormholes, but surely that could've been implemented elsewhere. It feels like they threw in Ultra Recon Squad just for the sake of adding some hype, which I fell for. The story itself was underwhelming, too. Team Skull themselves still feel irrelevant, but I guess they needed a villain squad when Aether Foundation was still perceived as some kind of legitimate organisation. I do like that they changed a few of the trials, though.

As for the new features themselves, I appreciate them making Move Tutors available early on, but that's all I really have to say. Like O-Powers, I didn't use the Rotopon. I played Mantine Surf maybe three times to get between islands and never really got into it. I guess it's easier to rack up BP that way, though.

All in all, it felt like they tried to do too much and executed it very poorly. Just a lot of different things mashed together into one game without much thought. These are just my personal thoughts, though, and I'm sure many can shed light onto things I'm overlooking.

Here's hoping that post-game is better.
 
All in all, it felt like they tried to do too much and executed it very poorly. Just a lot of different things mashed together into one game without much thought. These are just my personal thoughts, though, and I'm sure many can shed light onto things I'm overlooking.

Here's hoping that post-game is better.
Your criticisms are very valid, though perhaps missed a few points I'll try to elaborate on.

The Trainer School is very much as you said the tutorial area where the player learns a majority of the game's mechanics early on to set a base of knowledge. For people who already know said mechanics, we would naturally mash 'A' a lot since we already know this stuff and it really doesn't bare repeating. Though this is just for us repeat players and not complete newbies to the series who could use the knowledge. As for how it feels as a tutorial, I could see it feeling like a leash, but at the same time it's meant to make sure you understand the game so later on you don't have as much issue. It'd be pretty bad if someone got through a tutorial but didn't absorb it.

The heavy dialogue is for a different reason. SM & USUM are focusing more on the story rather than goal. For example, Alola has the same progression table as other mon games. Get "badges", go further, get stronger, win the League. But Alola tries to have that progression more as a roadblock than a goal, to obviously mixed results. I understand this could be a turnoff for some who wanted the more standard progression method. It'd be like Dark Souls and Persona, both have progression but one focused more on the story while the other has it in the background. (cue Dark Souls memes)

The Necrozma story of USUM versus the UB story of SM is indeed one of our larger debates I've seen. Personally, I try to keep them separate so each game has relevance and one isn't cast aside like with the other third versions. Ruby/Sapphire was played less when Emerald came out, Diamond/Pearl were played less when Platinum came out. Here, Sun and Moon are still very playable especially now with their own story that differs to a degree. Whether or not one version of the Alolan story is better is a different subject.

Now for Team Skull. Team Skull is very much meant to feel irrelevant. Unlike all other main villain groups, Team Skull is never taken seriously. That's they're whole shtick. People in-game just sigh and get bothered by them hanging around, but that's all. They're a nuisance and meant to be such. Villains like Team Magma, Aqua, Galactic, Plasma, and Flare were very up-front and vocal about how "If you don't side with us, you're going to pay" while not really doing anything to put meat behind their words besides just randomly attacking people. Team Rocket is a bit of a enigma here since they try not to be up-front with their goals because their actions speak louder. And you can't really call Aether a villain team since it's not the entire organization, just a few individuals who were in the know and in the backstage. So if you can't take Team Skull seriously, they're doing it right. Just be careful of Guzma's first impression. (And that's my joke quota for the day.)

Lastly, the new features. Now, this is something Pokemon does a lot of right here. They introduce a lot of features in one game to prove they can do it, and then depending on how well it goes, they continue using it. O-Powers were actually rather handy for postgame things, so they came back as Roto Boosts, which are also insanely useful for postgame things (and some main story things such as preparing for the League). Mantine Surfing was Gamefreak saying "We can now do this, how is it?". Personally, I love Mantine Surfing because it gives a more engaging means of BP grinding rather than monotonous battle after battle in the Battle Tree. But I can also say I don't like it because my joystick cover is loose and Mantine Surfing has a tendency to make it fall off sometimes. It's really up to the individual there. It's one of the unspoken things of Pokemon. Features will come in the truckload and if they do well, they continue. If parents get upset and think Pokemon is making their child a gambler, then sadly we may lose some features too (RIP Game Corner). Mantine Surfing will likely never be brought back and will stay as an Alola exclusive feature. Same could be possible with the Overworld Flying in ORAS on Latios/Latias, though that serves more purpose.

There's always going to be hits and misses with new features, but it's also important to make a game feel special. Such as Heartgold and Soulsilver having Pokemon follow you around. That feature likely will never come back no matter how much we want it to, so if you want that feature, play that game. It gives a game a chance to keep going instead of replaced. Other examples of exclusive features that never came back are Battle Frontier (Hoenn), Battle Frontier (Sinnoh), Battle Subway, Black Tower/White Forest, Pikachu following you, Rollerblades, Acro Bike (Sinnoh), Dual continents, etc. A lot of these features aren't even meant to be the main focus. They're largely side stuff for us to do when bored.

I hope my long-windedness helped something.
 
Your criticisms are very valid, though perhaps missed a few points I'll try to elaborate on.

The Trainer School is very much as you said the tutorial area where the player learns a majority of the game's mechanics early on to set a base of knowledge. For people who already know said mechanics, we would naturally mash 'A' a lot since we already know this stuff and it really doesn't bare repeating. Though this is just for us repeat players and not complete newbies to the series who could use the knowledge. As for how it feels as a tutorial, I could see it feeling like a leash, but at the same time it's meant to make sure you understand the game so later on you don't have as much issue. It'd be pretty bad if someone got through a tutorial but didn't absorb it.

The heavy dialogue is for a different reason. SM & USUM are focusing more on the story rather than goal. For example, Alola has the same progression table as other mon games. Get "badges", go further, get stronger, win the League. But Alola tries to have that progression more as a roadblock than a goal, to obviously mixed results. I understand this could be a turnoff for some who wanted the more standard progression method. It'd be like Dark Souls and Persona, both have progression but one focused more on the story while the other has it in the background. (cue Dark Souls memes)

The Necrozma story of USUM versus the UB story of SM is indeed one of our larger debates I've seen. Personally, I try to keep them separate so each game has relevance and one isn't cast aside like with the other third versions. Ruby/Sapphire was played less when Emerald came out, Diamond/Pearl were played less when Platinum came out. Here, Sun and Moon are still very playable especially now with their own story that differs to a degree. Whether or not one version of the Alolan story is better is a different subject.

Now for Team Skull. Team Skull is very much meant to feel irrelevant. Unlike all other main villain groups, Team Skull is never taken seriously. That's they're whole shtick. People in-game just sigh and get bothered by them hanging around, but that's all. They're a nuisance and meant to be such. Villains like Team Magma, Aqua, Galactic, Plasma, and Flare were very up-front and vocal about how "If you don't side with us, you're going to pay" while not really doing anything to put meat behind their words besides just randomly attacking people. Team Rocket is a bit of a enigma here since they try not to be up-front with their goals because their actions speak louder. And you can't really call Aether a villain team since it's not the entire organization, just a few individuals who were in the know and in the backstage. So if you can't take Team Skull seriously, they're doing it right. Just be careful of Guzma's first impression. (And that's my joke quota for the day.)

Lastly, the new features. Now, this is something Pokemon does a lot of right here. They introduce a lot of features in one game to prove they can do it, and then depending on how well it goes, they continue using it. O-Powers were actually rather handy for postgame things, so they came back as Roto Boosts, which are also insanely useful for postgame things (and some main story things such as preparing for the League). Mantine Surfing was Gamefreak saying "We can now do this, how is it?". Personally, I love Mantine Surfing because it gives a more engaging means of BP grinding rather than monotonous battle after battle in the Battle Tree. But I can also say I don't like it because my joystick cover is loose and Mantine Surfing has a tendency to make it fall off sometimes. It's really up to the individual there. It's one of the unspoken things of Pokemon. Features will come in the truckload and if they do well, they continue. If parents get upset and think Pokemon is making their child a gambler, then sadly we may lose some features too (RIP Game Corner). Mantine Surfing will likely never be brought back and will stay as an Alola exclusive feature. Same could be possible with the Overworld Flying in ORAS on Latios/Latias, though that serves more purpose.

There's always going to be hits and misses with new features, but it's also important to make a game feel special. Such as Heartgold and Soulsilver having Pokemon follow you around. That feature likely will never come back no matter how much we want it to, so if you want that feature, play that game. It gives a game a chance to keep going instead of replaced. Other examples of exclusive features that never came back are Battle Frontier (Hoenn), Battle Frontier (Sinnoh), Battle Subway, Black Tower/White Forest, Pikachu following you, Rollerblades, Acro Bike (Sinnoh), Dual continents, etc. A lot of these features aren't even meant to be the main focus. They're largely side stuff for us to do when bored.

I hope my long-windedness helped something.
Thanks, it definitely helps to see things from a different perspective. A lot of my own disappointment had to do with my expectations for the game, too. My main issue is that I feel like the game could've done without a lot of what they actually put into it, Ultra Recon Squad and Team Skull being the main ones. But this comes back to what I had hoped for the game. Like some others here, I had hoped that they would do more with Team Skull. I appreciate them trying to go about the story in other ways, but of course, they can't suit everyone's tastes.

The new features don't bother me as much. They're largely optional and whoever likes them can use them. Personally I enjoy the Battle Tree and I understand that there are some others out there who aren't into it and don't breed their own competitive Pokemon to get enough BP out of it.

I'll definitely keep this in mind when I play through my Ultra Sun copy in a few months. I might be able to enjoy and appreciate it a little better then.
 

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Lusamine dressing Lillie like Nihilego is just a coincidence in-universe...
That's a very on the nose coincidence. She's obsessed with Nihilego and just so happens to dress Lillie like one? Yeah, it's a metaphor to the player for sure but I wouldn't say it's not something at least some of the characters would realize. At most it's Lusamine doing it subconsciously.

I think Lusamine would have done the same things as in SM had the Ultra Recon Squad not arrived and said "Look, Necrozma has to be stopped and we can combine our technology to deal with it before it dooms us all" and she got a tiny bit of sanity back. If not, she'd have kept her initial goal of satisfying her Nihilego... thing.
And that what I was trying to say but I accidentally sidetracked myself.

Lusamine is still the same character as she was in SM, but the problem with that is the pay offs for that and how other characters were affected are no longer in USUM leaving certain plot points and character developments hanging as the Necrozma plot then takes over which requires different motivation and actions not connected to what had been previously done. This is mostly seen with Gladion's development, in SM it climax with him and Type: Null finally fighting Nihilego and defeating it. In USUM... he just stands there as Lusamine tells him she'll capture Necrozma with little help from Guzma.

Infact, while Lusamine is still in-character... that's only because we have prior knowledge from SM to go back on. We've seen how things play out without the Ultra Recon Squad thus getting those payoffs. However, if these were the first games instead, would Lusamine's actions still make sense? I'd say no because Lusamine in this game is being pulled in two different directions, trying to stay on the SM path until yanked in the direction of where USUM wants her to go.

That all said, Nihilego and Type: Nulls being made still make sense. Maybe would have been neat to see a different UB instead of Nihilego, though Type: Null would still be made due to Mohn's disappearance.

BTW, in-game avatar. Do you maybe want to tell anyone that Mohn is still alive? No, alright, that's cool, I mean Lillie and Gladion are only your friends who's lives had been traumatically impacted by his disappearance, but I suppose they don't need to know... (unless this gets some resolution in the post game)
 
There's also a newish feature that a lot of people gliss around: in USUM for the first time the actual villain is not the leader of the evil gang but an actual pokemon.
It is the first time in Pokemon history that rather than having to defeat X in order to stop him from using whatever the legendary is in order to destroy/remake/dominate/... the world, this time our "noble" goal is to actually save Necrozma from his own madness and at same time prevent him to steal all light from Alola and possibly other worlds.

I think this side of the plot could have definitely been expanded more, though, but USUM sadly suffers from a issue similar to SM, where the plot starts very slowly, then gets a huge speed boost after the part where you go to save Cosmog, resulting in the last thirs or so of the main plot feel "hasty and missed opportunities"

I personally love USUM new plot, but again the last part of the game could have been better.


There is also a lot of disappointment for Necrozma's climax fight: the fight is really meant to be cheesed some way with creative use of game mechanics (sash/sturdy TT or toxic, pp stall, etc.) Which while fitting the idea of needing to think out of the box for totem/bosses of USUM, feels very cheap and unsatisfying.
 
There is also a lot of disappointment for Necrozma's climax fight: the fight is really meant to be cheesed some way with creative use of game mechanics (sash/sturdy TT or toxic, pp stall, etc.) Which while fitting the idea of needing to think out of the box for totem/bosses of USUM, feels very cheap and unsatisfying.
At least it lives up to what it's supposed to be more than Kyurem in BW2. Poor thing that could be OHKOed before you even noticed.
 

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