SM OU Triple C Hazard Stacking (Balance)

[JadedJellicent]

Introduction​

What's up, y'all? I'm back with another RMT featuring some weird low-tier mon. Again, after facing people that can't make a good play to save their lives and try to fish for hax on me, I've grown so sick of the OU ladder. Every team is Gren, Lele, Mawile, Magearna, Lando, etc... basically it's ORAS all over again. I actually enjoyed playing ORAS more than current SM. Crawdaunt had its days, but now it's time for Cofagrigus to take center stage. I decided to build a hazard stacking team since that's the style I played best during ORAS.

The Team​

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off
​

I'm not really fond of using Clefable since it has haunted my nightmares in ORAS, but it does have some usefulness in SM as a check to the many wallbreakers in the tier, namely M-Medicham and Zygarde. Its utility options are phenomenal, having access to reliable Stealth Rock, Knock Off and the move that misses for me but hits for everyone else, Thunder Wave. I went with Knock Off since crippling Sub Tran and Mew on the switch is nice. The EVs prevent Clef from being 2HKOed by the aforementioned threats with the occasional Lopunny and Gallade, while taking hits more comfortably from Greninja.

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam
​

Like the last team, Celesteela has proven to be one of the best Specially defensive mons in the game, losing to lord Chansey of course. With the release of M-Gardevoir, Celesteela is very needed since it's the best defensive switchin to M-Gard. Everything else is pretty basic, Leech + Protect stalls out PP, Flamethrower hits Ferrothorn and Heavy Slam hits the rest. In the state of the meta right now, a 100% check to Fairies and Psychics is necessary.

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
​

Now for the fun part. Cofagrigus is known for being one of the best physical check to ability-abusing mons in the game, those being M-Medicham and M-Mawile. It's part of the hazard stacking core, being able to set up Toxic Spikes to wear down Tangrowth, while being a Ghost-type spinblocker. Seeing as there are few Poison-types in the tier, the most prominent being Gengar and Toxapex, both not seeing as much usage as before, Toxic Spikes work very effectively. Pain Split for semi-reliable recovery, Shadow Ball for an offensive move and Will-o to cripple things that aren't poisoned already. Hex is another option on this set, but against Sub Tran, I'd like to break Substitutes 98% of the time. EVs serve the same purpose as Clef's, plus eating non-boosted Dracos from Latios if I need to.

Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]
​

Mega Mane is very fitting for this build since it outspeeds Greninja, threatens Tapu Fini, Zygarde and Zard-Y, and provide switching momentum, forcing hazard damage on the opponent. And while it is prone to hazards itself, Mane, Cofag and Clef can either force and block hazard control, depending on the situation. To clarify again, it checks most Defoggers in the tier.

Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang
​

Originally this was Scarfed Chomp, but I wanted to try something I haven't used myself so I went with SD Chomp as it can beat Landorus-T 1v1. Dragon Claw over Outrage since every team has 2 Fairies nowadays while still having enough damage output with Dragonium Z. Fire Fang hits Ferrothorn and Skarm for decent chip. Marshadow being banned (or should I say, not being released when I built this) is very nice for SD Chomp. You can customize the Chomp set to your liking, as Scarf can counter Volcarona better, while Sub over Fire Fang handles Heatran better as they all appreciate hazard support.

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
​

And finally the mon that should have been gone by now along with Mawile but for some reason is still here so I'm gonna abuse it, Ash-Greninja. Personally I don't like to abuse broken stuff, but Greninja actually fits very well on this team. It completes my hazard core with Spikes, weaing down checks like Magearna when they come in again. Dark Pulse and Hydro Pump for spammable STABs and Water Shuriken picks off weakened Tapu Koko, Garchomp and Volcarona. Dark Pulse also pressures the last Defogger that Mane can't check, which is Mew. Choice Specs of course for maximum damage output. Don't come in here and be like: "Specs Spikes? What a bad set!" People used to run Scarf Rocks in the olden days, okay?

Conclusion​

Like I said above, I've been desensitized to playing OU, but this team has been tested thoroughly in the 1600s - 1700s. I haven't laddered in a while so might have dropped a bit. Feel free to critique the team and try it out for yourself. Most teams forgo hazard control now so just lead with a hazard setter and wear the opponent down. Even though there's no hazard control on this build (obviously because it's built around hazard stacking), forcing your opponent to Defog for you is pretty easy.

Importable

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp

Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken

 

[Ktütverde]

Very cool team! Cofagrigus is the NU basedlord but it seems that it walls many stuff in Ou too !

Ok that's quite an anti-meta team with spikes ash-gren able to force sableye and skarmory out, SD Z Chomp for ez stall battles, clefable rising again to top OU thanks to its physical set... I just feel you complain too much and that you had better use your team more because it has so many qualities! I actually don't see any real weakness excepted the most obvious one: no switchin to greninja ash and kingdra, keldeo and so on: why don't you simply use toxapex>cofagrigus? You already have a medicham switchin, 3 attackers faster than medi, while toxapex deals with mawile, kingdra, can scout for gren's dark pulse and then go to clefable, besides it has Toxic Spikes!!! You really need a waterresist, toxapex just forms an insane core with clefable+celesteela+chomp. Using such a great mon can just make your team way better.

T-spikes best EH (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Haze

I hope it helped raising the few obvious flaws in a great team! :)

 

[JadedJellicent]

Very cool team! Cofagrigus is the NU basedlord but it seems that it walls many stuff in Ou too !

Ok that's quite an anti-meta team with spikes ash-gren able to force sableye and skarmory out, SD Z Chomp for ez stall battles, clefable rising again to top OU thanks to its physical set... I just feel you complain too much and that you had better use your team more because it has so many qualities! I actually don't see any real weakness excepted the most obvious one: no switchin to greninja ash and kingdra, keldeo and so on: why don't you simply use toxapex>cofagrigus? You already have a medicham switchin, 3 attackers faster than medi, while toxapex deals with mawile, kingdra, can scout for gren's dark pulse and then go to clefable, besides it has Toxic Spikes!!! You really need a waterresist, toxapex just forms an insane core with clefable+celesteela+chomp. Using such a great mon can just make your team way better.

T-spikes best EH (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Haze

I hope it helped raising the few obvious flaws in a great team! :)

Admittedly, Toxapex would be better than Cofag in almost every single way (except for not being a spinblocker of course). But it hurts the aesthetics of the team since it's called "Triple C" and Cofag is HEAT, while Toxapex is OU luncheon meat. Speaking competitively, I'm willing to sacrifice the water-resist to use fun mons since Swampert kills this team already, no need for Kingdra. Celesteela plays that role pretty well, checking both Grounds and Special Waters as most teams don't have a strong combination of the two. If laddering hardcore is the plan, Toxapex is 100% my preferred choice :]
P.S. The complaints are mostly because I get haxed excessively :[

 

[Imperator Caesar]

Hi really interesting team indeed Cofagrigus has a good niche in SM OU it checks fighting mons well, spinblocks well, but it needs some mates to perform.
In my opinion your team don't need stuff like Manetric nah, it needs another steel wall in order to covers with more efficiently cofagrigus. I think ferrothorn and foretress can be good mates. Especially foretress it can volt switch too a slow volt switch which is better in that kind of teams and spikes more consistently than Gren Ash. Spikes is a decent option for sure but it's not enough consistent on a team which is based on hasard stacking. U turn on Gren Ash can be interesting because you'll have with foretress a decent volt turn core which is always nice. I hope that my rate will help you I'll give you an import of my personal version of your team.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp

Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-Turn
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball

 

[JadedJellicent]

Hi really interesting team indeed Cofagrigus has a good niche in SM OU it checks fighting mons well, spinblocks well, but it needs some mates to perform.
In my opinion your team don't need stuff like Manetric nah, it needs another steel wall in order to covers with more efficiently cofagrigus. I think ferrothorn and foretress can be good mates. Especially foretress it can volt switch too a slow volt switch which is better in that kind of teams and spikes more consistently than Gren Ash. Spikes is a decent option for sure but it's not enough consistent on a team which is based on hasard stacking. U turn on Gren Ash can be interesting because you'll have with foretress a decent volt turn core which is always nice. I hope that my rate will help you I'll give you an import of my personal version of your team.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp

Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-Turn
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball

Tapu Fini has been successfully summoned.

 

[weirdo faye]

hiyer, i have to say firstly that that im not good at the use of balance type teams but i have some suggestions that nonetheless u might find worth considering.

firstly, about the clefable, i suggest running this.

clef

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Encore

u mentioned that knock off is for mew and sub tran, i think encore benefits u more cuz if ur opp tries to sub with tran theyre in for a surprise. also, i can see ur opp going switching mew and fini in to try fog rocks off the field and encore will stop them. in the case of stall itll be skarm and its not gna be able to fog them off. lastly, encore might serve as an emergency volcarona answer cuz i can see that u get smashed by volcarona and that encore can generate opportunites for ur other teammates to come in.

secondly, im with ktutverde on the cofag -> pex change. u mentioned that cofag is unique but i think ur team is actually rly cool regardless even w/o cofag.

pex

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze

as mentioned by ktut, pex is an ok ash gren, zard y switchin etc. pex is probably an ok volc answer i guess provided it doesnt carry a psychic z crystal.

thirdly, i suggest using sd/eq/fly/smackdown lando-t as ur breaker instead of garchomp.

lando

Landorus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Smack Down
- Swords Dance

lando-t is way better than garchomp imo even tho the speed is lacking cuz nothing can switch in safely on it, pressures stall like crazy and with hazard pressure it makes it even worse.

lastly, i suggest using a scarf gren w/ spikes over ash gren cuz as mentioned this team is extremely weak to volc

gren

Greninja (M) @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
- Spikes

besides volc checking, u-turn can generate u momentum. also, i dont think u need necessarily need ice beam because the team shouldnt have too much problems with zygarde & lando-t or salamence cuz u have steela & clef.

hope it was helpful.

 

[JadedJellicent]

hiyer, i have to say firstly that that im not good at the use of balance type teams but i have some suggestions that nonetheless u might find worth considering.

firstly, about the clefable, i suggest running this.

clef

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Encore

u mentioned that knock off is for mew and sub tran, i think encore benefits u more cuz if ur opp tries to sub with tran theyre in for a surprise. also, i can see ur opp going switching mew and fini in to try fog rocks off the field and encore will stop them. in the case of stall itll be skarm and its not gna be able to fog them off. lastly, encore might serve as an emergency volcarona answer cuz i can see that u get smashed by volcarona and that encore can generate opportunites for ur other teammates to come in.

secondly, im with ktutverde on the cofag -> pex change. u mentioned that cofag is unique but i think ur team is actually rly cool regardless even w/o cofag.

pex

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze

as mentioned by ktut, pex is an ok ash gren, zard y switchin etc. pex is probably an ok volc answer i guess provided it doesnt carry a psychic z crystal.

thirdly, i suggest using sd/eq/fly/smackdown lando-t as ur breaker instead of garchomp.

lando

Landorus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Smack Down
- Swords Dance

lando-t is way better than garchomp imo even tho the speed is lacking cuz nothing can switch in safely on it, pressures stall like crazy and with hazard pressure it makes it even worse.

lastly, i suggest using a scarf gren w/ spikes over ash gren cuz as mentioned this team is extremely weak to volc

gren

Greninja (M) @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
- Spikes

besides volc checking, u-turn can generate u momentum. also, i dont think u need necessarily need ice beam because the team shouldnt have too much problems with zygarde & lando-t or salamence cuz u have steela & clef.

hope it was helpful.

I'm not opposed to running Toxapex, I just find it more fun to use Cofag, that's all. If the team is used for tryharding, Toxapex is the obvious choice over Cofag.
I am, completely opposed to Encore Clef though, because why would Sub Tran ever be forced to switch since it can actually sit there and spam Sub to recover to full. And it's that effective as a Volcarona answer since it doesn't need to click Quiver Dance against this team, it can just throw off attacks and something will be damaged severely.
About Breaker Lando, it's actually a reallly good alternative to Chomp. But the fact that Chomp is a Dragon, soft-checking Fires and rounds out the Dragon-Fairy-Steel core makes it a more decent option for that slot. Depending on which Ground-type you're more comfortable with, either Lando or Chomp is excellent as a setup breaker. I'm just more experienced in using Chomp.
And lastly, I just straight up hate Scarf Gren. It's a good anti-meta mon, and would help this team a lot against Volc, but I just despise it with all of my being. More power to you if you like it, but I've never hated a set more than Flame Charge Volcanion lol.
Thanks for the suggestions :]

 

[weirdo faye]

I am, completely opposed to Encore Clef though, because why would Sub Tran ever be forced to switch since it can actually sit there and spam Sub to recover to full. And it's that effective as a Volcarona answer since it doesn't need to click Quiver Dance against this team, it can just throw off attacks and something will be damaged severely.

say heatran subs and u encore it w/ ur clef, encore lasts 3 turns.
turn 1: i switch to chomp/lando
turn 2: i quake it, sub broken
i think ur able to switch out a mon even in encored, opp musnt be thinking straight if they stay in to sub again and waste 25% of there hp, letting u sd/throw atk off with lando/chomp to smash something

that was the reason y i suggested encore clef

abt the volc part, its prob a 50/50 as to whether theyd atk or go straight for the sweep. personally id atk expecting a switch to the scarfer 1st and not attempt to set up till i got rid of the scarfer. either way u just need to be rly careful around volc i guess

oh yea 4got to add, say its that sub/toxic tran set rite,

32+ SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Clefable: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

even if they want to spam magma storm in ur face, id just soft boiled stall them out of it

 

[JadedJellicent]

say heatran subs and u encore it w/ ur clef, encore lasts 3 turns.
turn 1: i switch to chomp/lando
turn 2: i quake it, sub broken
i think ur able to switch out a mon even in encored, opp musnt be thinking straight if they stay in to sub again and waste 25% of there hp, letting u sd/throw atk off with lando/chomp to smash something

that was the reason y i suggested encore clef

When you put it like that, Encore is an appealing option. It really depends on which ultility you want more as Knock Off cripples many defensive mons while Encore deters setup. Since the team is hazard stacking both options would benefit: Knock limits Tran's switchins while Encore forces the switch once. I'mma test it and see how it fares.
Oh and Trapper Tran nowadays don't run Taunt so it's never beating Clef 1v1 anw lol

 

[Ktütverde]

I think we all suggest toxapex because your team is better adapted to toxapex than cofagrigus. I DO believe cofagrigus has a niche in OU but this team would be far greater with toxa ; however some changes would make it better with cofagrigus. Notably cofagrigus loves being paired with a toxicspikes absorber+a core resisting the most common types in OU: notably water who easily switch into it since they carry scald/specs special moves. Maybe that you could consider using Celesteela+Cofagrigus+Venusaur and Clefa+GreninjaAsh+Garchomp: I don't think manectric is really helpful and this Mega change makes the team more solid with a tapu koko switchin, waterresist, T-Spikes Absorber, and extremely solid balance core, with cofagrigus taking on landorus, medicham, mawile, swampert, therefore reducing the pressure that physcial attacker put on mega venusaur. The team is fast enough and needs something to complete the defensive core. 3 stallers+1 utility+ 2 fast attackers turns this team into a very annoying balance, able to tank the strongest moves from every OU attacker and able to pressure your opponent with every existing spike and specs/SD.
My main argument is notably: Manectric=Free Swampert whom you have no switchin, ez roost stall with mew once your opponent has T-spikes up.

So I really think the answer is: Venusaur Mega->Manectric

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 156 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Earthquake


In addition it lures Heatran in with EQ (yeh you have freed the 4th slot by giving knock off to clefable/Flamethrower to celesteela!)
Sleep powder might be used so zardY is less annoying too

That's my last word and I really hope it puts a happy end to the discussion around cofagrigus! :)
PS: I'm gonna use this team it's heat af

 

[Ktütverde]

Moreover EQ venusaur is welcome when you realize Boltbeam Gigavolt Magearna sweeps the whole team

 

[JadedJellicent]

I think we all suggest toxapex because your team is better adapted to toxapex than cofagrigus. I DO believe cofagrigus has a niche in OU but this team would be far greater with toxa ; however some changes would make it better with cofagrigus. Notably cofagrigus loves being paired with a toxicspikes absorber+a core resisting the most common types in OU: notably water who easily switch into it since they carry scald/specs special moves. Maybe that you could consider using Celesteela+Cofagrigus+Venusaur and Clefa+GreninjaAsh+Garchomp: I don't think manectric is really helpful and this Mega change makes the team more solid with a tapu koko switchin, waterresist, T-Spikes Absorber, and extremely solid balance core, with cofagrigus taking on landorus, medicham, mawile, swampert, therefore reducing the pressure that physcial attacker put on mega venusaur. The team is fast enough and needs something to complete the defensive core. 3 stallers+1 utility+ 2 fast attackers turns this team into a very annoying balance, able to tank the strongest moves from every OU attacker and able to pressure your opponent with every existing spike and specs/SD.
My main argument is notably: Manectric=Free Swampert whom you have no switchin, ez roost stall with mew once your opponent has T-spikes up.

So I really think the answer is: Venusaur Mega->Manectric

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 156 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Earthquake


In addition it lures Heatran in with EQ (yeh you have freed the 4th slot by giving knock off to clefable/Flamethrower to celesteela!)
Sleep powder might be used so zardY is less annoying too

That's my last word and I really hope it puts a happy end to the discussion around cofagrigus! :)
PS: I'm gonna use this team it's heat af

Wait Mega Venu kinda heat. The reason I didn't use Mega Venu on this team is every time I use it, bad luck comes my way, and also stall. I'mma test this thing out though. Thanks :]

 

[weirdo faye]

Maybe that you could consider using Celesteela+Cofagrigus+Venusaur and Clefa+GreninjaAsh+Garchomp

im interested to see what cool ideas u have. is it possible for u to share the team besides the eq venusaur please?

 

[Ktütverde]

im interested to see what cool ideas u have. is it possible for u to share the team besides the eq venusaur please?

what do you mean? If you want the team just import it from the RMT (?)

 

[weirdo faye]

well you see if the line up was

ven/cofag/steela/clef/ashgren/chomp

wouldnt it super weak to volc still? :( unless ur suggesting scarf chomp

 

[JadedJellicent]

well you see if the line up was

ven/cofag/steela/clef/ashgren/chomp

wouldnt it super weak to volc still? :( unless ur suggesting scarf chomp

Scarf or SD Chomp is fine, seeing as Volcarona forces a scarfer on every team, which in turn hurts its usage quite a bit. Also when FABIO and Mega Lati are released, Volc will be even more uncommon. Basically not every team is supposed to have a 100% check to every mon, especially when you're using NU heat over OU lords.
Also if I was concerned about Volc when I first built this I would have put Ice Beam Chansey with 48 Sp.Atk EVs on this to break Zygarde's substitute LOL

 

[Ktütverde]

well you see if the line up was

ven/cofag/steela/clef/ashgren/chomp

wouldnt it super weak to volc still? :( unless ur suggesting scarf chomp

I haven't seen volcarona for days and garchomp+toxicspikes do the job. Anyway manectric doesn't help beating volcarona. Scarf chomp is possible tho I didn't tackle that question

 

[Ktütverde]

Scarf or SD Chomp is fine, seeing as Volcarona forces a scarfer on every team, which in turn hurts its usage quite a bit. Also when FABIO and Mega Lati are released, Volc will be even more uncommon. Basically not every team is supposed to have a 100% check to every mon, especially when you're using NU heat over OU lords.
Also if I was concerned about Volc when I first built this I would have put Ice Beam Chansey with 48 Sp.Atk EVs on this to break Zygarde's substitute LOL

Ice beam on blissey. Always. :)

 

[Anish]

hey cool team,

i like the innovation and the thought process behind this team, and i intend to keep the innovative factors ( cofagrigus) inside this team . however, this team does have a couple of flaws, which i hope to help you with, in my rate. firstly, tapu koko and ash greninja are extremely threatening to this team, especially since you dont have any scarfer to revenge kill it ( mane can also be easily brought into shuriken range) , and buginium or hp ice volcarona are also extremely threatening because you rely on garchomp to deal with it. you also struggle with dealing with stall, since unaware clefable still deals with garchomp. defog mantine is also extremely threatening here, since it removes hazards and checks gren, especially since clefable cant really threaten mantine, meaning ur forced to rely on garchomp to deal with it. toxapex can also set toxic spikes which are a huge threat to the team, being able to wear down the team, with 5 grounded mons, especially if paired with something like a vincune, which is extremely annoying.

>

firstly, i would like to suggest running a offensive flynium z lando t over garchomp. flynium z lando t helps in pressuring down stall teams, due to its ability to use its flying type z move against mons like unaware clefable. it functions similarly as a ground type wallbreaker, and also sets up rocks, freeing up the rocker slot. i am recommending a jolly nature to outspeed vincune and banded zygarde, the first one is already threatening, while further changes would make the latter more annoying for this team. by choosing a offensive rocker you are able to wear down mantine, since it cannot come into lando and defog. while it can still come into gren once after this, you can either fish for a flinch or double out to break it, or conservatively just use other pokemon and wear it down so it cant consistently remove hazards. this does make you lose a fire resist, but the volcarona check ill suggest still checks fire decently.

>

after you have freed up the rocker slot, i dont really think you need clefable here. a lot of what it does ( checking fighting types) is normally a good trait for teams, but this team is built around cofag whose largest role is as a check to fightings , so you dont need it here. instead, i would like to recommend amoonguss. amoonguss checks koko and ash gren, both large threats to the team, but also removes t spikes, which means that toxapex teams dont almost autowin against this team. it also checks magearna, as offensive magearna is extremely threatening to this team if it carries an electrium z. amoonguss can also pivot and force switches with the threat of spore, which helps with hazards . this change does make some mons a little more threatening. you lose your dark resist and your check to cb weavile, and band zygarde does get a bit more irritating. however, band zygarde does have limited switchin oppurtunities, since it really cant come easily onto any pokemon on your team, since the only mon which its se to is terrakkion, which can 2hko with close combat, while lando and cofag can both come in once, while the threat of lando switching in dissuades it from outraging, as it is then locked and u can use skystrike.

>

id recommend running a scarf terrakkion over mega manectric. scarf terrakkion has the ability to revenge kill volcarona, which makes it mesh well with the team, and it also appreciates how the passive damage could wear down the opposing team to let it clean with stab stone edge, and also works alongside lando t in weakening opposing lando, so that it could clean late game. toxic especially helps with weakening lando, by cutting down leftovers recovery, so that you have a easier time wearing it down. double kick may seem weird, but it helps terrak in dealing with smeargle, since webs would be extremely annoying for this team, since mons like mimikyu would be extremely threatening with webs. it also helps as a dark resist, something which replacing clefable has removed, but you do have to be wary around weavile if you do need scarf for something, though its usually not that necessary(you do weaken your ability to clean but you have other cleaners like ash gren, so its not necessary) except vs volcarona teams, in which case you could play aggresively and choose between letting something like gren get knocked or picking a sack, though he cant hard weav anywhere, while you can maintain hazard pressure, and you can often let pokemon like cofagrigus take a knock and wisp if from full, since weav would be threatening. (volcarona + weavile isnt a core, and the volcarona + weav team would also heavily struggle with role compression.) weav on its own can be problematic too, since after it knocks off terrak it can be hard to switch into, but you can maintain rocks (or even other hazards) while it only comes in on lando after a kill, or something like amoonguss on a double switch, and even then its somewhat of a 50/50 (if he knocks or crashes), though he could just crash and aim to chip terrak.

• a minor detail which you could tweak is making your cofagrigus max hp / max def to take physical hits better, as taking lati draco isnt really that relevant when you have something like a celesteela which takes on lati well, and you often dont want cofag to take that much damage regardless, while switching into band zyg or getting worn down less from physical hits is more important here.

importable

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire
- Stun Spore

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Toxic
- Double Kick

Landorus-T @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Fly
- Gravity

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken

 

[JadedJellicent]

hey cool team,

i like the innovation and the thought process behind this team, and i intend to keep the innovative factors ( cofagrigus) inside this team . however, this team does have a couple of flaws, which i hope to help you with, in my rate. firstly, tapu koko and ash greninja are extremely threatening to this team, especially since you dont have any scarfer to revenge kill it ( mane can also be easily brought into shuriken range) , and buginium or hp ice volcarona are also extremely threatening because you rely on garchomp to deal with it. you also struggle with dealing with stall, since unaware clefable still deals with garchomp. defog mantine is also extremely threatening here, since it removes hazards and checks gren, especially since clefable cant really threaten mantine, meaning ur forced to rely on garchomp to deal with it. toxapex can also set toxic spikes which are a huge threat to the team, being able to wear down the team, with 5 grounded mons, especially if paired with something like a vincune, which is extremely annoying.

>

firstly, i would like to suggest running a offensive flynium z lando t over garchomp. flynium z lando t helps in pressuring down stall teams, due to its ability to use its flying type z move against mons like unaware clefable. it functions similarly as a ground type wallbreaker, and also sets up rocks, freeing up the rocker slot. i am recommending a jolly nature to outspeed vincune and banded zygarde, the first one is already threatening, while further changes would make the latter more annoying for this team. by choosing a offensive rocker you are able to wear down mantine, since it cannot come into lando and defog. while it can still come into gren once after this, you can either fish for a flinch or double out to break it, or conservatively just use other pokemon and wear it down so it cant consistently remove hazards. this does make you lose a fire resist, but the volcarona check ill suggest still checks fire decently.

>

after you have freed up the rocker slot, i dont really think you need clefable here. a lot of what it does ( checking fighting types) is normally a good trait for teams, but this team is built around cofag whose largest role is as a check to fightings , so you dont need it here. instead, i would like to recommend amoonguss. amoonguss checks koko and ash gren, both large threats to the team, but also removes t spikes, which means that toxapex teams dont almost autowin against this team. it also checks magearna, as offensive magearna is extremely threatening to this team if it carries an electrium z. amoonguss can also pivot and force switches with the threat of spore, which helps with hazards . this change does make some mons a little more threatening. you lose your dark resist and your check to cb weavile, and band zygarde does get a bit more irritating. however, band zygarde does have limited switchin oppurtunities, since it really cant come easily onto any pokemon on your team, since the only mon which its se to is terrakkion, which can 2hko with close combat, while lando and cofag can both come in once, while the threat of lando switching in dissuades it from outraging, as it is then locked and u can use skystrike.

>

id recommend running a scarf terrakkion over mega manectric. scarf terrakkion has the ability to revenge kill volcarona, which makes it mesh well with the team, and it also appreciates how the passive damage could wear down the opposing team to let it clean with stab stone edge, and also works alongside lando t in weakening opposing lando, so that it could clean late game. toxic especially helps with weakening lando, by cutting down leftovers recovery, so that you have a easier time wearing it down. double kick may seem weird, but it helps terrak in dealing with smeargle, since webs would be extremely annoying for this team, since mons like mimikyu would be extremely threatening with webs. it also helps as a dark resist, something which replacing clefable has removed, but you do have to be wary around weavile if you do need scarf for something, though its usually not that necessary(you do weaken your ability to clean but you have other cleaners like ash gren, so its not necessary) except vs volcarona teams, in which case you could play aggresively and choose between letting something like gren or celes get knocked or picking a sack, though he cant hard weav anywhere, while you can maintain hazard pressure, and you can often let pokemon like cofagrigus take a knock and wisp if from full, since weav would be threatening. (volcarona + weavile isnt a core, and the volcarona + weav team would also heavily struggle with role compression.)

• a minor detail which you could tweak is making your cofagrigus max hp / max def to take physical hits better, as taking lati draco isnt really that relevant when you have something like a celesteela which takes on lati well, and you often dont want cofag to take that much damage regardless, while switching into band zyg or getting worn down less from physical hits is more important here.

Thanks for the suggestions! But maybe take a look at the replies above first.
- The way I beat stall is switching around Clef and Celesteela to annoy the opponent lol. Essentially I'm stalling stall. Like I said above, Scarf Chomp, SD Chomp, Z Lando are all viable options for that slot, I just have more experience using SD Chomp. If I was going to use stallbreak Lando, I would personally use Sub + Rockium Z cause that sh*t is absolute CASH.
- While Amoongus does seem appealing on the non-Venusaur version of the team, I also limit my switchins to Trapper Tran (Clef beats Tran 1v1). Also Zen Headbutt Medicham will take this team for breakfast, lunch and dinner if Cofag gets weakened, which is pretty easy to do. And with the change to non-defensive Lando, which takes 50% from 1001 Arrows, and Cofag being the switchin to every physical attacks in the game, the team ain't lasting long, especially against setup Zygarde. It's more kinda like weighing your options between Zygarde, Volcarona, Heatran, Mantine or Koko. In the long run, I would like to have the ultility that ClefLORD offers. Gren gon be gone soon so >---<-[:))))) Double Dance Mag carries BoltBeam so that's not an argument.
- Now Terrakion is HEAT. I've always been a fan of Terrak ever since SD killed everything back in ORAS. But my better judgement tells me: "We are in a Lando meta. Terrak is hot butts." If I were to replace Mane with a Volc check, I would use Tyranitar or Taunt Tran. I'd never consider any offensive mon as a resist, especially Greninja. Weavile is that common, and Cofag burns that anyway. If that isn't the case, then Terrak gets knocked off and next time Weavile clicks Crash 6 times and win. The only Webs I trust in NJNP, and that team is created to perfection anyway. Screw anyone who puts Webs on random ass teams.
- Making Cofag Max - Max rn.
Again, not every team is supposed to check everything in the meta, except stall, but if you play your cards right, the matchup factor doesn't matter as much. I solo'd a Mega Mane, Heatran, Tapu Fini and D-nite with a single Celesteela before lol.
P.S. The only REAL Volcarona set is Specs

 

[Slakinglike]

I think we all suggest toxapex because your team is better adapted to toxapex than cofagrigus. I DO believe cofagrigus has a niche in OU but this team would be far greater with toxa ; however some changes would make it better with cofagrigus. Notably cofagrigus loves being paired with a toxicspikes absorber+a core resisting the most common types in OU: notably water who easily switch into it since they carry scald/specs special moves. Maybe that you could consider using Celesteela+Cofagrigus+Venusaur and Clefa+GreninjaAsh+Garchomp: I don't think manectric is really helpful and this Mega change makes the team more solid with a tapu koko switchin, waterresist, T-Spikes Absorber, and extremely solid balance core, with cofagrigus taking on landorus, medicham, mawile, swampert, therefore reducing the pressure that physcial attacker put on mega venusaur. The team is fast enough and needs something to complete the defensive core. 3 stallers+1 utility+ 2 fast attackers turns this team into a very annoying balance, able to tank the strongest moves from every OU attacker and able to pressure your opponent with every existing spike and specs/SD.
My main argument is notably: Manectric=Free Swampert whom you have no switchin, ez roost stall with mew once your opponent has T-spikes up.

So I really think the answer is: Venusaur Mega->Manectric

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 156 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Earthquake


In addition it lures Heatran in with EQ (yeh you have freed the 4th slot by giving knock off to clefable/Flamethrower to celesteela!)
Sleep powder might be used so zardY is less annoying too

That's my last word and I really hope it puts a happy end to the discussion around cofagrigus! :)
PS: I'm gonna use this team it's heat af

This team is heat af, bro I need the importable with M Venu and other changes.

 

[JadedJellicent]

This team is heat af, bro I need the importable with M Venu and other changes.

Importable

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 156 SpD / 16 Spe
Serious Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Earthquake

Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken

Change it to Scarf Chomp if you'd like :]

 

[Anish]

Thanks for the suggestions! But maybe take a look at the replies above first.
- The way I beat stall is switching around Clef and Celesteela to annoy the opponent lol. Essentially I'm stalling stall. Like I said above, Scarf Chomp, SD Chomp, Z Lando are all viable options for that slot, I just have more experience using SD Chomp. If I was going to use stallbreak Lando, I would personally use Sub + Rockium Z cause that sh*t is absolute CASH.
- While Amoongus does seem appealing on the non-Venusaur version of the team, I also limit my switchins to Trapper Tran (Clef beats Tran 1v1). Also Zen Headbutt Medicham will take this team for breakfast, lunch and dinner if Cofag gets weakened, which is pretty easy to do. And with the change to non-defensive Lando, which takes 50% from 1001 Arrows, and Cofag being the switchin to every physical attacks in the game, the team ain't lasting long, especially against setup Zygarde. It's more kinda like weighing your options between Zygarde, Volcarona, Heatran, Mantine or Koko. In the long run, I would like to have the ultility that ClefLORD offers. Gren gon be gone soon so >---<-[:))))) Double Dance Mag carries BoltBeam so that's not an argument.
- Now Terrakion is HEAT. I've always been a fan of Terrak ever since SD killed everything back in ORAS. But my better judgement tells me: "We are in a Lando meta. Terrak is hot butts." If I were to replace Mane with a Volc check, I would use Tyranitar or Taunt Tran. I'd never consider any offensive mon as a resist, especially Greninja. Weavile is that common, and Cofag burns that anyway. If that isn't the case, then Terrak gets knocked off and next time Weavile clicks Crash 6 times and win. The only Webs I trust in NJNP, and that team is created to perfection anyway. Screw anyone who puts Webs on random ass teams.
- Making Cofag Max - Max rn.
Again, not every team is supposed to check everything in the meta, except stall, but if you play your cards right, the matchup factor doesn't matter as much. I solo'd a Mega Mane, Heatran, Tapu Fini and D-nite with a single Celesteela before lol.
P.S. The only REAL Volcarona set is Specs

just wanted to clear your misconceptions about the rate.

1> stall can use sab as a spd celes check and just play around clef, since just getting rocks off doesnt win
2> magearna can get spored/stun spored by amoonguss as +1 beam doesnt come close to ohkoing, while your cofagrigus does have semi reliable recovery, and you can play to keep it healthy. zygarde does get more of a threat but as i mentioned in my post, it has close to 0 oppurtunities to come in ( comes in on terrak after a kill or a weakened amoonguss), so while your limited switchins hurt you still have enough one time switchins for it to work.
3> double kick terrak is for njnp webs so i am not sure where your coming from. weavile does get more annoying but it could play around clef in a similar way(with your evs anhow) by knocking leftovers into 2 crashes next time you come in, if he gets the roll or if u were chipped even a little before, with a more offensive rocker you can offensively pressure weavile coming in, since you can keep rocks up a lot more. even if you let weav come in enough, you can still rk it w gren or w celes or go into cofag and wisp if its locked into crash. terrak also helps with tran which you were apparently concerned about, and you have enough tran checks ( terrak, and ash gren and lando offensively checking it). taunt heatran and ttar also lose to certain moves on rona ( hp ground and buzz). terrak isnt ass as you say it is, as even though we are in lando meta this team has a way to overload lando, in which case stab sedge (only resisted by a few mons rn) can clean late game

 

[JadedJellicent]

just wanted to clear your misconceptions about the rate.

1> stall can use sab as a spd celes check and just play around clef, since just getting rocks off doesnt win
2> magearna can get spored/stun spored by amoonguss as +1 beam doesnt come close to ohkoing, while your cofagrigus does have semi reliable recovery, and you can play to keep it healthy. zygarde does get more of a threat but as i mentioned in my post, it has close to 0 oppurtunities to come in ( comes in on terrak after a kill or a weakened amoonguss), so while your limited switchins hurt you still have enough one time switchins for it to work.
3> double kick terrak is for njnp webs so i am not sure where your coming from. weavile does get more annoying but it could play around clef in a similar way(with your evs anhow) by knocking leftovers into 2 crashes next time you come in, either to fish for flinch, if he gets the roll or if u were chipped even a little before, with a more offensive rocker you can offensively pressure weavile coming in, since you can keep rocks up a lot more. even if you let weav come in enough, you can still rk it w gren or w celes or go into cofag and wisp if its locked into crash. terrak also helps with tran which you were apparently concerned about, and you have enough tran checks ( terrak, and ash gren and lando offensively checking it). taunt heatran and ttar also lose to certain moves on rona ( hp ground and buzz). terrak isnt ass as you say it is, as even though we are in lando meta this team has a way to overload lando, in which case stab sedge (only resisted by a few mons rn) can clean late game

Ayy I'm open to new heat since I'm not that into OU anymore. I don't ever need to click a move against stall, I just give them a taste of their own playstyle. While I do like Amoongus as much as the next guy, like Mega Venusaur, it tends to be surprisingly underwhelming in what it's supposed to do, which doesn't mix well with my rather offensive style. Don't get me wrong, I would love to test this version out, but only until I've mastered the art of RU stall will I return to OU.
Yes, I know Double Kick Terrak has viability as a anti-lead (I have used Pheromosa in Ubers), and the fact that Z Lando is pretty common and easy to break through, Terrak always fall short, most likely because of constantly missing Edge or the ten million Fighting resists in the tier. I haven't used Terrak in SM yet, maybe in a few weeks though. Being as unlucky as I am, maybe I should just retire from this toxic and brokens-spamming ladder.

 

[Slakinglike]

Importable

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Knock Off

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 156 SpD / 16 Spe
Serious Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Earthquake

Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken

Change it to Scarf Chomp if you'd like :]

Thanks dude.