Torrential Downpour - The Resurgence of Rain

I know Ferrothorn has been brought up a few times, but it hasn't been specifically mentioned that it has PERFECT defensive syngery with Pelliper, resisting Electric and Rock, and the pelican resists Fire and Fighting. Also, many teams run fire coverage to hit Ferro hard, LS/Protect Ferro has always been a real nusiance to kill in the rain.

Throw in hazard support and Spore and Poison immunity, Ferro will continue to bring a lot to rain in terms of a solid defensive core and utility.
 
we gen 5 now bois

They won't dominate near as much, but all the old Gen 5 techs remain valid, just less powerful. As somebody who fell out with the Gen6 meta as it wore on, seeing something familiar is really whats luring me back in

even if i ran Sun in gen 5, because fuck whats popular, sun was more fun
It won't be as dominant, for sure, but just seeing a team literally scares me xD And yea, its good to see some new/old stuff :) I agree, ORAS barely differed from X/Y and it got a bit stale for me as well.
 

MattL

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Friendly reminder to all of you who are building rain: make sure you don't build in such a way that nearly your entire team is solo'd by Mantine. I know Mantine isn't going to be a dominant threat, but the buffs it got were insane, and if your only thing on your rain team to deal with Mantine is your one Electric type, you are going to lose to any good player who has Mantine.
 
Friendly reminder to all of you who are building rain: make sure you don't build in such a way that nearly your entire team is solo'd by Mantine. I know Mantine isn't going to be a dominant threat, but the buffs it got were insane, and if your only thing on your rain team to deal with Mantine is your one Electric type, you are going to lose to any good player who has Mantine.
Remember Freeze Dry is an option, kids. Many people will not see it coming.
 
Mantine can be broken by Swampert or Kabutops though

252+ Atk Mega Swampert Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 124-148 (64.5 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 203-242 (105.7 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Still Mantine would probably be the premier rain check especially if dugtrio can trap kill Tapu Koko.
 
Given i imagine Rain and Electric Terrain will be paired together alot via VoltTurn, i'm sure we will have plenty of ways to deal with Mantine.

Alolan Raichu with Nasty Plot perhaps? Personally i'll be using a MegaManectric with Thunder to try benefit from both. With U-Turn on Pelipper we have a stupid amount of options now, i don't think pure Swift Swim spam is the way anymore. Tho its clearly the end game ideal.
 
I think it's clear rain is gonna be strong but I'm sad Sun doesn't seem like it got many new toys. Torkoal is cool and all but not many new mons seem like they can take advantage of sun. Oh well I guess it's always been worse than rain and that'll just continue.
 
I think it's clear rain is gonna be strong but I'm sad Sun doesn't seem like it got many new toys. Torkoal is cool and all but not many new mons seem like they can take advantage of sun. Oh well I guess it's always been worse than rain and that'll just continue.
Rain (and Sand to an extent) have always been a cut above the other two weathers, especially hail, and they've taken a few steps to fix that in SuMo (Ninetales-A, Torkoal) but I agree it's not really enough, when Rain gets a freaking Drizzle+U-Turn 'mon with STAB Hurricane.

I wouldn't count Sun out though. Talonflame getting nerfed BTFO is a real boon to Chlorophyll sweepers, who, really, never stopped being terrifying when given the right support. They don't get their STAB boosted, but most of them get Growth, and Solarbeam is stronger and more accurate than Hydro Pump.

Chlorophyll sweepers also got a nice teammate in Tapu Bulu; Grassy Terrain will boost their Grass STAB, and not only that, it halves Earthquake's power, providing some breathing room for your fire types. Tapu Bulu is also, in itself, a very potent wallbreaker and overall looks like a great pokemon.

Torkoal is also so much better than Ninetales. Like it's not even a contest. For the low, low price of workable special bulk and anything resembling a speed tier, you get:
-better physical bulk than Skarmory
-better utility moves like Stealth Rocks, Rapid Spin, Clear Smog, and Yawn
-better offenses and offensive movepool: Earthquake/Earth Power, Superpower, and Lava Plume to name the big ones

Something like Will-o-Wisp|Yawn / Stealth Rock / Lava Plume / Rapid Spin|[coverage of choice] is going to be much better than anything Ninetales could pull off.

Some of these will require move tutors, unless Torkoal somehow gets Drought when transferred up (it's not its hidden ability, it's its secondary ability, but in previous gens it only has one. I bet it's just a 50% to get it when transferred or something, but at any rate Ability Capsules are probably coming back.)

And to top it off, an old Sun staple, Dugtrio, also got buffed with +20 attack, making it just that much better.

EDIT: a bunch of changes also really benefit Mega Houndoom, who is terrifying under sun but a bunch of things prevented a good team from being built around him. But now:
-It gets that sexy 115 speed on its first turn
-Sun teams can now fit in Hazard support, so Stealth rocks aren't as much of an issue
-Tapu Bulu is a great teammate; Grassy Terrain alleviates the self-harm from Solar Power and weakens Earthquake (it'll still hurt though,) and Tapu Bulu has the bulk and resists to switch in to many of the things that Houndoom fears (and vice versa a bit.)
 
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MANNAT

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The main theme that I've noticed between the rain teams posted here a lot of rain builds in general that I've seen is that they're 6-0ed by the ever annoying Ferrothorn, a real threat to pretty much all rain teams unless you specifically consider it while building. To provide what I think is a good example, I have provided a rain build below that I have made myself and explain the choices that I made, and while it's not perfect, it definitely addresses a lot of the common threats to rain teams as a whole and will be effective in my opinion at least. At first glance, this team looks very weak to ferrothorn too, but I make an effective use of several lures such as Fire Punch Jirachi and Low Kick Swampert to make it not as big a deal.

(mega)
Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Electric]/Ice Beam

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Low Kick

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- U-turn

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch/Nature's Madness
- Dazzling Gleam

Jirachi @ Shed Shell
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Healing Wish
- Fire Punch
The basic idea of this build was to build a rain team focusing around the usage of Pelipper as a pivot into several sweepers and rain wallbreakers, and it looks pretty good on paper at the very least. Starting off the team is Pelipper+Swampert+Kingdra, which will be a staple on rain this generation, especially with Swampert getting Swift Swim and boosted speed right off the bat. After them, I decided to add Tornadus-Therian to provide a solid breaker and a Pokemon that can be effective outside of the rain. I decided to choose a Life Orb set since this team wants the breaking power it provides, and LO Hurricane is super fun to spam under rain, and Grass Knot can help to lure in Gastrodon and Seismitoad, which can be annoying for rain teams. After Torn-T, I decided to add on Tapu Koko because while this team had Kingdra to lure in Mantine with HP Elec, it still wanted an additional member to deal with it, and Tapu Koko's insane speed tier coupled with its terrifying coverage moves made it a good choice for the team. The set I'm running is a Choice Specs that mainly wants to spam its crazy powerful rain-boosted thunders to take chunks out of the opposing team, but it also has coverage in Hidden Power Ice/Dazzling Gleam that can deal with most of the standard electric checks that pop up. I added Volt Switch aside from the coverage because keeping up momentum is integral to making rain work and can let me get in Kingdra or Swampert in on switches. You can also choose to run Nature's Madness over Volt Switch with a Life Orb to severely weaken Ferrothorn on the switch, putting it into KO range of Low Kick. In the last slot, I decided to add Jirachi since it can be a solid pivot into strong Fairy and Psychic attacks for a lot of mons and has is a Pokemon that actually beats Ferrothorn because of Fire Punch, but you can forego fire punch for U-turn if you use Nature's madness on Tapu Koko. This build looks really solid on paper and doesn't seem to lose to anything from team preview, which is really nice, so I think that It'll be really fun to use. I omitted Dugtrio on this build since Tar literally cannot switch into a single member of this team and Dugtrio taking up a teamslot just to trap it seemed like a waste, and I didn't use a secondary Rain setter since I usually do a good job keeping my rain setter healthy when playing rain, and Pelipper's access to reliable recovery means it'll stay alive longer than Politoed used to. I'll probably make a post analyzing what I think are all the good mons on rain in a bit, but I think that this should be good enough for now. I hope you guys enjoyed this team/read and have a wonderful day. :]
 
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The main theme that I've noticed between the rain teams posted here a lot of rain builds in general that I've seen is that they're 6-0ed by the ever annoying Ferrothorn, a real threat to pretty much all rain teams unless you specifically consider it while building. To provide what I think is a good example, I have provided a rain build below that I have made myself and explain the choices that I made, and while it's not perfect, it definitely addresses a lot of the common threats to rain teams as a whole and will be effective in my opinion at least.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- U-turn

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: electricsurge
EVs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
The basic idea of this build was to build a rain team focusing around the usage of Pelipper as a pivot into several sweepers and rain wallbreakers, and it looks pretty good on paper at the very least. Starting off the team is Pelipper+Swampert+Kingdra, which will be a staple on rain this generation, especially with Swampert getting Swift Swim and boosted speed right off the bat. After them, I decided to add Tornadus-Therian to provide a solid breaker and a Pokemon that can be effective outside of the rain. I decided to choose a Life Orb set since this team wants the breaking power it provides, and LO Hurricane is super fun to spam under rain, and Grass Knot can help to lure in Gastrodon and Seismitoad, which can be annoying for rain teams. After Torn-T, I decided to add on Tapu Koko because while this team had Kingdra to lure in Mantine with HP Elec, it still wanted an additional member to deal with it, and Tapu Koko's insane speed tier coupled with its terrifying coverage moves made it a good choice for the team. The set I'm running is a Choice Specs that mainly wants to spam its crazy powerful rain-boosted thunders to take chunks out of the opposing team, but it also has coverage in Hidden Power Ice/Dazzling Gleam that can deal with most of the standard electric checks that pop up. I added Volt Switch aside from the coverage because keeping up momentum is integral to making rain work and can let me get in Kingdra or Swampert in on switches. In the last slot, I decided to add Toxicroak since it can be a fun NP sweeper under rain and more importantly is a Pokemon that actually beats Ferrothorn, and I chose it over volc since I really dislike running Volcanion without hazard control. This build looks really solid on paper and doesn't seem to lose to anything from team preview, which is really nice, so I think that It'll be really fun to use. I omitted Dugtrio on this build since Tar literally cannot switch into a single member of this team and Dugtrio taking up a teamslot just to trap it seemed like a waste, and I didn't use a secondary Rain setter since I usually do a good job keeping my rain setter healthy when playing rain, and Pelipper's access to reliable recovery means it'll stay alive longer than Politoed used to. I'll probably make a post analyzing what I think are all the good mons on rain in a bit, but I think that this should be good enough for now. I hope you guys enjoyed this team/read and have a wonderful day. :]

This is legitimately a seriously good-looking team. Props dude, because your team is both original and highly-threatening (atleast it looks so). The only thing(s) that stands out to me are 1) your lack of fairy resists - e.g. Clef, if it sets up a cm or two (for example on pelliper or choice locked kingdra), looks to be a huge menace for your team as you have no reliable fairy counter / resists, a +2 moonblast would ohko toxicroak, and since its special, a sludge bomb isn't doing a lot to a +2 sp.def clef. Magaerna can come in on - for example, on a choice-locked draco from kingdra, and have free reign to fire off a free fleur cannon - this also happens with Tapu Lele - who leads me to my next point that you have no psychic resists which seems problematic in S&M OU with Tapu Lele around. Tapu Bulu also seems like a massive threat to your team, e.g. tornadus can't even switch in on rocks because its ohko'd by band wood hammer - same with toxicroak. If it comes in 1st round as you do with your pellipper, it has a free ohko. Tapu Bulu is looking to be the biggest threat to your team.

Even still man, highly impressive team and looks to be highly effective in our up and coming metagame. Props to you :)
 



Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost

Alolan Raichu @ Aloraichium Z
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Surf

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Hurricane
- U-Turn
- Roost

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent (Swift Swim)
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Power-up Punch
- Rain Dance

Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Poison Jab
- Crunch

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Atk / 118 SpD
Speed IV: 0
Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Spe)
- Gyroball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
I think Ferrothorn can be handled by Alolan Raichu (2*Focus Blast or Z-Move+Focus Blast) and I can finish him with Pelipper, Swampert, Araquanid or even himself...
But is it enough ? What do you think guys, does Ferrothorn counters my team ?
That's easy if he doesn't have Power Whip, though.

Some cals:
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Electric Terrain: 57-68 (31.4 - 37.5%) -- 83.8% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (138 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Koko: 84-100 (57.9 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Raichu Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 94-112 (51.9 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Raichu Stoke Sparksurfer (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Electric Terrain: 76-90 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (112 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raichu: 47-56 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raichu: 102-121 (75.5 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 46-55 (25.4 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 48-57 (28.7 - 34.1%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn in Rain: 81-96 (44.7 - 53%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Araquanid: 69-82 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Mega-Swampert Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 38-46 (20.9 - 25.4%) -- Miniscule chance to 4HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mega-Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 106-126 (58.5 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega-Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 70-84 (38.6 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
It becomes annoying if Ferrothorn is invested in Atk, but otherwise I should be fine.
 
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There are many good options for dealing with Ferro which pair well with rain teams.

A few which come to mind:
Mega Medicham: Psychic stab is also good for dealing with bulky poisons like Mega Venus and Amoongus, as well as Toxapex. Also can really take advantage of Pelliper's slow U-Turn to get in for easy KO.

Mega Heracross: Bug stab good for dealing with Slowbro, another huge nusaince to rain. Again, pairs well with Pelliper's slow U-Turn

Magnezone: I wouldn't go with a weak HP Fire on a rain team, which Ferro can still get trouble with Leech Seed/Protect, but a bulky Leftovers Charge Beam/Flash Cannon/Substitue/Magnet Rise set can really take advantage of Ferro, trap it and boost on it for free and net at least 1 KO, likely more.

Goodra: Bulky, has fire blast, takes advantage of Hydration/Rest or can use Sap Sipper for Grass immunity which is beneficial when paired with waters.
Furthermore, it can pair well with Tapu Koko to cover its dragon weakness, and with Electric Terrain can also provide another option to wake up with Rest.

Volcorona: With Talonflame nerfed (the one factor which really hampered its usage last gen), and other priority getting nerfed by Tapu Lele, I predict Volc will come back in a big way. Has Fire Blast, Giga Drain, Bug Buzz and Hurricane. With QD, a proper coverage combination can blast through many mons which trouble rain, including Ferro, Slowbro, Rotom W, Lati@s etc.
 
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There are many good options for dealing with Ferro which pair well with rain teams.

A few which come to mind:
Mega Medicham: Psychic stab is also good for dealing with bulky poisons like Mega Venus and Amoongus, as well as Toxapex. Also can really take advantage of Pelliper's slow U-Turn to get in for easy KO.

Mega Heracross: Bug stab good for dealing with Slowbro, another huge nusaince to rain. Again, pairs well with Pelliper's slow U-Turn

Magnezone: I wouldn't go with a weak HP Fire on a rain team, which Ferro can still get trouble with Leech Seed/Protect, but a bulky Leftovers Charge Beam/Flash Cannon/Substitue/Magnet Rise set can really take advantage of Ferro, trap it and boost on it for free and net at least 1 KO, likely more.

Goodra: Bulky, has fire blast, takes advantage of Hydration/Rest or can use Sap Sipper for Grass immunity which is beneficial when paired with waters.
Furthermore, it can pair well with Tapu Koko to cover its dragon weakness, and with Electric Terrain can also provide another option to wake up with Rest.

Volcorona: With Talonflame nerfed (the one factor which really hampered its usage last gen), and other priority getting nerfed by Tapu Lele, I predict Volc will come back in a big way. Has Fire Blast, Giga Drain, Bug Buzz and Hurricane. With QD, a proper coverage combination can blast through many mons which trouble rain, including Ferro, Slowbro, Rotom W, Lati@s etc.
I completely forgot that Goodra was a Pokémon
 
Is there any worth in running both Tapu Lele and Tapu Koko on the same team? I think if you have something like mega Manetric, maybe because it's a frail mon, or even something like Xurcitree which is powerful but a bit slow.
 
It's been pointed out in other threads how much Ninetales-A hurts rain, thanks to Freeze-Dry. Pelipper, Mega Swampert, Ludicolo, Kingdra and Seismitoad all take x4 damage from it. So non-Water-type Ice resists will have to be considered.

This helps out Beartic, somewhat, since it's a Swift Swimmer that's not fucked by Freeze-Dry. Plus it had its attack stat boosted this gen. Could end up being well worth a team slot.
 
It's been pointed out in other threads how much Ninetales-A hurts rain, thanks to Freeze-Dry. Pelipper, Mega Swampert, Ludicolo, Kingdra and Seismitoad all take x4 damage from it. So non-Water-type Ice resists will have to be considered.

This helps out Beartic, somewhat, since it's a Swift Swimmer that's not fucked by Freeze-Dry. Plus it had its attack stat boosted this gen. Could end up being well worth a team slot.
There's really only room to use a couple swift swimmers on a rain team, and there's no way I'd give up amazing swimmers like Kingdra or Mega Swampert for something that doesn't even have a water STAB. It gets chunked pretty hard by Moonblast anyway, not getting one-shot by Alola-tales doesn't make it a good answer.

Alola-tales is certainly a threat to rain but things if I was going to handle it, I'd much rather use a steel type like Mega Scizor or Metagross, or something like Moltres.
 
There's really only room to use a couple swift swimmers on a rain team, and there's no way I'd give up amazing swimmers like Kingdra or Mega Swampert for something that doesn't even have a water STAB. It gets chunked pretty hard by Moonblast anyway, not getting one-shot by Alola-tales doesn't make it a good answer.

Alola-tales is certainly a threat to rain but things if I was going to handle it, I'd much rather use a steel type like Mega Scizor or Metagross, or something like Moltres.
Tbf it does get Aqua Jet. And relax, I wasn't claiming it to be Rain's lord and saviour.
 
There's really only room to use a couple swift swimmers on a rain team, and there's no way I'd give up amazing swimmers like Kingdra or Mega Swampert for something that doesn't even have a water STAB. It gets chunked pretty hard by Moonblast anyway, not getting one-shot by Alola-tales doesn't make it a good answer.

Alola-tales is certainly a threat to rain but things if I was going to handle it, I'd much rather use a steel type like Mega Scizor or Metagross, or something like Moltres.
You can be sure Alola tales teams will be carrying answers to steel types and maybe running Lele to stop bullet punches. Not saying it's hopeless for rain though by any means.

Man is Hail vs. Rain actually going to be a thing in the new meta? Is this real life?
 
Well, A-Ninetailes get OHKOed by every pokemon you listed, and they are all faster on the rain.
I'm pretty sure Ferrothorn also OHKO her, Tapu Koko/Raichu/Araquanid too.
So, except if you place him on Pelipper... it's not a really nice counter.
 
Well, A-Ninetailes get OHKOed by every pokemon you listed, and they are all faster on the rain.
I'm pretty sure Ferrothorn also OHKO her, Tapu Koko/Raichu/Araquanid too.
So, except if you place him on Pelipper... it's not a really nice counter.
>faster on the rain
>Ninetales has Snow Warning

There won't be rain, Ninetales switches in and takes it away and I'm pretty sure Tales is faster than all of them without rain.
 

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