The NU Open V - Round 3

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Serpi

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asking for extension vs Jets since we were only able to schedule for one time (very different timezones + me being away on the weekends) and he missed that time. we're 100% gonna be able to play on monday though
 

watashi

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activity post, my opponent said i'd be able to find him on stours during his evenings but i've actually never heard anything from him despite being afk on stours almost all the time
 

Kiyo

the cowboy kid
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Coinflips: http://puu.sh/qKtbS.jpg
tko vs fatty don't see any communication from either user since wednesday, neither vm was a particularly good attempt at scheduling.
FLCL vs Derk saying you'll be online on smogtours in the evening doesn't count as scheduling a game, despite it looking like derk missed a scheduled meeting there was no timezone or time range set for this meeting. neither player has contacted via vm since thursday as far as i can tell
atomicllamas vs Laurens both players have been active in vm'ing but havent been able to play, it kind of looks like laurens missed a time to play but nothing was exact and i can't be sure. i was originally going to extend this but neither player has responded to their vm conversation since friday and neither player requested an extension

Activity:
soTsoT vs Sopheon sopheon never replied to the initial vm. one post and then not tagging or posting on your opponent's wall will no longer be ground for an activity win
Hack vs Nido-Rus Nido-Rus missed a scheduled time and then proceeded to give Hack the win
Level 56 vs wisc wisc never replied to the initial vm. one post and then not tagging or posting on your opponent's wall will no longer be ground for an activity win
DennisEG vs LuckOverSkill
Energy vs ggggd ggggd never replied to the initial vm. one post and then not tagging or posting on your opponent's wall will no longer be ground for an activity win, if you want to use ps logs as evidence they better be screenshotted, and even then thats sketchy considering they're pretty easy to fake.
badabing vs denger badabing never replied to the initial vm. one post and then not tagging or posting on your opponent's wall will no longer be ground for an activity win

Extensions:
Serpi386 vs Jets (24 Hours) scheduled for today
Steve Angello vs UmPM (48 hours) scheduled for tuesday
Paraplegic vs FlamingVictini (24-48 hours) tentatively scheduled for tonight
HJAD vs Improbable (24 hours) scheduled for this evening
Mazz vs Clay Johnson (48 hours) looks like they can play today or tomorrow

Round 4 will be up shortly.
 

watashi

is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Three-Time Past SPL Champion
World Defender
i'd really like you or some td to reconsider that coinflip, he literally never responded to 3 of my vms and was never on stours even though he said he would be. i feel like this is extremely unfair since i've been active everyday and ready to play while he only logs on every 2 or 3 days (i've been checking his profile). at least give us an extension or something??

and there was a time range set, he said he'd be on in the evening gmt+1 on thursday but never showed
 
Coinflips: http://puu.sh/qKtbS.jpg
tko vs fatty don't see any communication from either user since wednesday, neither vm was a particularly good attempt at scheduling.
FLCL vs Derk saying you'll be online on smogtours in the evening doesn't count as scheduling a game, despite it looking like derk missed a scheduled meeting there was no timezone or time range set for this meeting. neither player has contacted via vm since thursday as far as i can tell
atomicllamas vs Laurens both players have been active in vm'ing but havent been able to play, it kind of looks like laurens missed a time to play but nothing was exact and i can't be sure. i was originally going to extend this but neither player has responded to their vm conversation since friday and neither player requested an extension

Activity:
soTsoT vs Sopheon sopheon never replied to the initial vm. one post and then not tagging or posting on your opponent's wall will no longer be ground for an activity win
Hack vs Nido-Rus Nido-Rus missed a scheduled time and then proceeded to give Hack the win
Level 56 vs wisc wisc never replied to the initial vm. one post and then not tagging or posting on your opponent's wall will no longer be ground for an activity win
DennisEG vs LuckOverSkill
Energy vs ggggd ggggd never replied to the initial vm. one post and then not tagging or posting on your opponent's wall will no longer be ground for an activity win, if you want to use ps logs as evidence they better be screenshotted, and even then thats sketchy considering they're pretty easy to fake.
badabing vs denger badabing never replied to the initial vm. one post and then not tagging or posting on your opponent's wall will no longer be ground for an activity win

Extensions:
Serpi386 vs Jets (24 Hours) scheduled for today
Steve Angello vs UmPM (48 hours) scheduled for tuesday
Paraplegic vs FlamingVictini (24-48 hours) tentatively scheduled for tonight
HJAD vs Improbable (24 hours) scheduled for this evening
Mazz vs Clay Johnson (48 hours) looks like they can play today or tomorrow

Round 4 will be up shortly.
Excuse me?
We didnt schedule anything, so I didnt miss anything.
you had no deadline posted if you had posted a deadline I would have asked for an extension.
we just said play this weekend, and I was online all weekend
 

Kiyo

the cowboy kid
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
First things first, neither of you followed the scheduling guidelines I've continually said would protect you from having your game coinflipped in the event it came to an activity decision. I have literally no sympathy at this point, both of you have been lax at scheduling throughout the entirety of this tournament and I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.
If you want to be 100% certain you're protected in the case your game goes to an activity decision I'd recommend reading through the SPL scheduling guidlines that were laid out by Aldaron.
I'm sure plenty of you have come across activity drama while scheduling matches. I'm here to reduce the arbitrary element associated with some of these decisions. It is entirely your decision to adhere to these STRONG RECOMMENDATIONS, but note that if you choose not to, I'll most likely ignore any pleading from your end.

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR VM WALL IF YOU WISH TO PLAY IN THIS TOURNAMENT. THIS IS HOW ALL OFFICIAL SCHEDULING WILL BE HANDLED.

Once that week's thread is posted, you have up to 48 hours to contact your opponent ON HIS VM WALL and mention your timezone and exactly what dates, what time ranges you are available, and where you will battle. Note that the default accepted sim and server is the official server on Showdown/Smogon Tournament Server, or PO if you're playing an old gen. You must provide at least 3 different time ranges at least 48 hours from the timestamp of your message, with at least 2 that are 24-hours apart from each other. The minimum and maximum length for 1 time range is 30 minutes, and the minimum difference between the 3 required time ranges is 3 hours. If you give 3 time ranges that stick with this policy, you can give any additional time ranges at any time you please.

NOTE THAT THIS SCENARIO INVOLVES RESPONSE DYNAMICS; THERE IS SOMEONE WHO WILL CONTACT FIRST AND SOMEONE WHO RESPOND...THESE REQUIREMENTS ARE NOT FOR BOTH OF YOU TO ASSUME TO YOU CAN BE FIRST CONTACTS...WHOEVER CONTACTS FIRST IS THE FIRST, AND THE OTHER DEFAULTS TO THE RESPONDER. THIS SHOULD BE OBVIOUS BUT SOME OF YOU ARE DUMB.

Once your opponent has contacted you, you now have up until 72 hours after the week's thread has been posted (NOT after your opponent's message) to respond with times that are good for you. What this means is that if both of you spend the maximum time contacting and responding, you should have back and forth collaboration at a maximum of 72 hours after the round has been posted, with both parties given an additional 24 hours to prepare for the battle should it be scheduled as soon as required. If none of the opponent's proposed time ranges are good for you, you must respond with alternative time ranges.

The first opponent now has X hours to prepare for the battle (if the second opponent agreed to some time) or 24 hours to contact a TD if, for whatever reason, this second set of time ranges does not suit the first opponent. Note this should be an absolute last measure.

Once a time is agreed upon, please make a message on your opponent's VM wall between 10 minutes and 1 second before the agreed upon time and say you are ready to battle and then get to agreed upon location (regardless of whether or not your opponent sends you a response VM). Please protect yourself by making this message, as it makes decisions much easier. You will be required to wait for your opponent for the duration of the time range.

If neither of you contact each other before 48 hours after the thread has been posted, you're both opening yourself up to a potential no contest or substitution. If I look at the situation, I might just determine I'm going to no contest, or whatever based on however I'm feeling at that moment. Don't leave yourself and your team vulnerable to this.

Just because at anytime one of the responders does not respond within the given range does not give you automatic activity win credentials. If they don't contact at all on your VM wall up until 48 hours before the end of the round (note, I'm not going to take irc or sim messages as evidence due to how easily they can be doctored...so if you want to protect yourself, stick to the VM messages), then you obviously have activity win justification. You WILL contact your opponent in a timely manner. However, if they do contact you at all after the suggested response time and before 48 hours before the end of the round, you are required to respond before 24 hours before the end of the round with 2 1-hour time ranges at least 1 hour apart before the end of the round. The opponent, since he did not stick to the proposed response schedule, WILL BE REQUIRED TO PLAY AT ONE OF YOUR NEWLY SUGGESTED TIMES, so you have the advantage here. This obviously puts a bit of an emphasis on the last 48 hours of each round (as is standard operating procedure for most of our official team tournaments anyway), so I will try my best to keep the last 48 hours of the round as close to the majority of the weekend for as much of the world as I can.

If you follow all of these guidelines, you will a.) most likely get your match done with minimal issue or b.) protect yourself and your team from an undue no contest or activity decision. Yes, I hate activity decisions in official tournaments. Yes, I will do my best to prevent activity decisions in the playoffs (the qualifying round is fair game however and I will have no problem issuing an activity call here), but don't push your luck.

Here is an example of how following this would work:

Week 1 thread is posted June 7, 2013 at 12:00 AM. Its deadline is June 14, 2013 at 11:59PM. User A and User B are matched up. User A contacts User B on his VM wall on June 7, at 9:00 PM (47 hours after the thread was posted, so ok), and gives 4 time ranges: June 10, from 7:00-7:30 PM (22 hours after the timestamp of his message, which is only ok so long as at minimum 3 of the other proposed time ranges adhere to the requirements), June 11, from 9:00-9:30 PM (48 hours after the timestamp of his message, which is ok), June 12, from 6:00-6:30 PM (69 hours after timestamp of his message, so ok, but only 21 hours after the earliest time range that is 48 hours after the timestamp), and June 12, from 9:00-9:30 PM (72 hours after the timestamp, so ok, and 24 hours after a legal time range and 3 hours after another legal time range). The June 11 and both June 12 time ranges satisfy the requirements, so User A can propose his first June 10 time range as well. User B responds on June 10, at 8:00 PM (23 hours after User A contacted him, so ok), and picks June 11, at 9:00 PM to battle, which is ok because it is 24 hours after his own response.

You'll note I made most of my response ranges multiples of 24 hours, but also included 24 hours. This means I expect you to be able to check Smogon at least once a day. If that is not feasible, you put yourself at risk.

~ Aldaron
To address the concerns you brought to me on skype, there was a deadline included in the OP of the round. The schedule for the round has literally been posted every round with the time the round will end listed below, I'm sorry i didn't put it in 24 size font and big bold letters this round, but the information was there if you looked for it.
For reference, all the threads will be posted at times that are convenient for me, which means you'll likely see them around noon pst (gmt-7) that day at the latest.
Jul 21: Signups
Jul 25: Round 1
Aug 4: Round 2
Aug 13: Round 3
Aug 22: Round 4
Aug 29: Round 5
Sep 5: Round 6
Sep 12: Round 7
Sep 19: Round 8
Round Deadlines will be 8:00AM PST (gmt-7) the day the next scheduled round is supposed to go up. i.e. if round 2 goes up on august 4th, round 1 will end august 4th at 8am pst, etc.

"Nights on smogtours" is not a scheduled time. You should know this and have countered with an actual time. Not everyone's definition of night is the same and I have no proof that either of you were or were not online. If you actually wanted to claim he missed the scheduled time you should have actually set a time. This has been stated multiple times in the OP of each round.

Derk has been in contact with you after your posts, barring the post you made on thursday. I realize that some of those posts are more than 48 hours apart (i.e. he replied to the vms sent on the 15th and 16th with one post on the 17th), but to say he hasn't replied to 3 of your vms is a bit deceptive imo. I agree he has taken a long time to reply in between vms, however you also failed to mention specific times to play in your vms, again simply agreeing on "nights" does not constitute a scheduled time. It's my belief that if you had attemtped to be more strict in scheduling via vms you'd recieve a more concrete answer in your scheduling. and even if you did not you'd be protecting yourself from a coinflip and be more in favor of getting an act win in the first place.

If you've been checking his smogon profile every 1-2 days why was the last form of communication from either of you no more than 4 days ago? If you were planning to check in with him again as you said on skype I think you'd have done it at some point in the last 96 hours, especially if you check his profile once within 48 hours.


If you had bothered to actively schedule the way you are supposed to for tournaments this entire situation could have been avoided, I realize your opponent is shaky at best but if anything that should mean you should attempt to adhere to the scheduling guidelines even more strictly. The basis of your argument for an activity win is that Derk missed a loosely scheduled time that doesn't adhere to the guildlines i've set out for activity wins. I can only give you the tools, I cannot schedule the games for you.

I'm willing to give you guys an extension simply due to the fact that this isn't the first game this tour that Derk's match has gone to an activity call and you seem more than willing to play. You have 72 hours to schedule and play your game, I'd suggest setting an actual time frame, informing Derk of when you're online 10 minuts before said time frame, and providing proof if he is not online at the scheduled time.
I'll notify Derk's round 4 opponent that he will need to wait until this set has concluded and the tour should proceed as normal.

Don't be mad at me if your game goes to an activity call and you didn't follow scheduling guildines to a t. That's on you, not me.

Excuse me?
We didnt schedule anything, so I didnt miss anything.
you had no deadline posted if you had posted a deadline I would have asked for an extension.
we just said play this weekend, and I was online all weekend

This was the post I was talking about, I didn't see the post saying that you guys simply mixed up where you were meeting. I'm upset that neither of you thought to check the other server to see if you opponent was there, but to be fair the preference is for games to be played on smogtours.

Again, I'm sorry I didn't hold your hand and put the deadline in big bold letters but the information was in the OP if you bothered to look for more than 5 seconds.

If you were online all weekend why did communication stop on Friday? That doesn't bode well for you wanting an activity win. I've said time and time again that VM contact is the only way to protect yourself from your match going to a coinflip / activity win.

Nothing you have given me gives me reason to believe either of you deserves the activity win which makes me even more inclined to stick with my decision of coinflipping the game. To make sure we're clear llamas did not win this game because of greater activity, he won becuase you both showed equal activity and equally stopped communicating 3 days before the round's deadline.

The only reason I'm reversing this decision and forcing an extension is because it was my original intention to so if you both had continued communicating after Friday.


I will no longer be reversing activity decisions unless it is due to an error on my end, you have been informed of ways to avoid losing activity decisions and it is on you to schedule your games properly and play them at the scheduled times.

tl;dr atomicllamas vs Laurens and FLCL vs Derk will recieve a 72 hour extension, i will be particularily harsh and strict regarding the scheduling guidelines. My apologies to their round 4 opponents, but I'd prefer the games get played.
 
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