The Everything NFL Thread - 2016-17 Season

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At the end of the day, football is more team and position oriented than the other major sports. No one with a sound brain would put Brady with Jordan. Brandon Marshall just listed four players he thinks are better than Brady. QB, he said yeah Brady's the best right now, but for example, he put Watt because Watt can play more than one position on defense and is a force wherever you put him, making him versatile. It's just that the league only cares about QBs (National Quarterbacks League), when you have middle linebackers or somethin busting their ass every single snap on the other side.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh quarterback is the most valuable/important position in the 4 major american sports and its not even remotely close.

Your dline could consist of 4 JJ watts and it wouldn't matter if you're up against Brady with Brock Osweiler at QB.
 
That's not how it works. The qb is definitely the most important position, but it is still a team sport first and foremost. You take Brady and put him on a crappy team with a crappy coach and guess what? He will be lucky to win 5 games. Jordan on the other hand could carry entire teams by himself, because he's 20% of the team playing. Even if the qb is the most important position in sports, the impact of the qb itself heavily relies on other players and coaches. It's asinine to call Brady Jordan level when football is a game with so many parts and many many players from the pats teams deserve the same if not more credit than Brady for those sbs he won.

Aaron Rodgers is a perfect qb, and i think the only player in the nfl who i think has a jordan level impact on a team. He could be placed in any team with crappy coaches and make them dangerous because he is the closest to perfection at the position we will ever see. And even then his overall impact on the w/l record would be marginal.
 

Deck Knight

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The nature of football is that individual stats (at least offensively, defensively if you get a sack you get a sack) rely on the team having a basic level of competence so that, for example, the ball is snapped properly to the QB every single time before making a play so he can either throw it, hand it to the RB, or do an option play. The QB then had to throw the ball competently or hand it off competently as well, and then the yardage gets shared by the QB and the receiver or the RB.

As far as athleticism Football is a different beast entirely from other sports (man-to-man contact is legal and either expected or accounted for every play). Jordan could run circles around just about every other athlete in physicality (run speed, jump height, agility), but then Brady is also expected to tank takedowns from 250+ lb guys. Gretzky would likely come in second on physicality, and then it depends what age we're comparing Ruth and Brady, as Ruth relied on slugging a lot more than speed.

As far as Brady being "on Jordan level" the analogy is in the context of the sport he plays, not "is Brady a better absolute athlete than Jordan."
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Arguably the fact that Football is more team oriented and we are in salary cap and free agency era Brady and Belichicks sustained success is the most impressive feat in all of professional sports. Brady's impact being smaller works IN his favor not against it.
 
You take Brady and put him on a crappy team with a crappy coach and guess what? He will be lucky to win 5 games.
There's absolutely nothing to support this, in fact, you've actually ignored the closest possible comparison you could make here just to suit your completely erroneous argument.

In 2000 the New England Patriots were a 5 win team, they started out 0-2 in 2001, replaced Bledsoe (a QB with multiple pro bowls and an NFL passing title) with Brady and went 11-3 (14-3 if you count the playoffs) to finish the season. Their offense went from 25th in the NFL to 6th in terms of PPG. So Tom Brady clearly had an enormous impact on his teams success that year.

In terms of my Jordan comparison:

If Tom Brady plays for 3 more season he will more than likely own every single individual passing honor and volume statistic there is.

His level of sustained dominance is something that will never be touched by any NFL player from now until the end of time.

Not to mention his performances in the clutch.
 
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Also quick stat for all you Rodgers bros, hes 0-35 against teams with a winning record when trailing in the 4th quarter.



Can't really be considered the greatest when you're the literal definition of non-clutch

(And yes wins are a team stat and a terrible way to judge QBs but he literally has 0 wins)
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
tell "qb can't carry a team" to peyton manning in 2010 with the colts. no, really. are you gonna suggest that peyton manning is better than tom brady? hint: he's not.

regardless, im not gonna get involved in this. if you don't think brady is the best overall qb of all time after this, you won't even if he wins the next two just out of stubbornness, so there's no real purpose to this argument.
 
tell "qb can't carry a team" to peyton manning in 2010 with the colts. no, really. are you gonna suggest that peyton manning is better than tom brady? hint: he's not.

regardless, im not gonna get involved in this. if you don't think brady is the best overall qb of all time after this, you won't even if he wins the next two just out of stubbornness, so there's no real purpose to this argument.
There can be an argument made for Peyton Manning being the GOAT based on what he's done in his career for a team that for the most part was elevated by him but that argument becomes irreparably flawed once you take the postseason into consideration. Same can be said about Dan Marino and Drew Brees or hell even Aaron Rodgers. But at this point, all other arguments are extremely flawed. Tom Brady is without a doubt the GOAT. I admittedly refused to believe that until/if he won ring #5. And that's what he did. Everyone who says otherwise is grasping at straws
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Been thinking for a while that what gets lost in a lot of GOAT conversations is the dichotomy of "competitor" vs "player".

If you ask who the NBAs greatest player is you mostly get Jordan. If you ask who has the best game in NBA history now all of a sudden Jordan starts falling down the list because he can't do some of the stuff cats like Wilt or Kareem could do. Stuff like Lebron or Magic do.

Same goes for Brady. I've been saying for a while Brady is great despite a lack of talent. People like Aaron Rodgers or Cam just blatantly have the most ridiculous game of QBs out there right now. Shit we've never ever seen before. So if you fall on the category of "when I talk about the best I talk about the game they play" then I get why you'd skip out on Brady. But if you're talking competitors man god damn you're gonna be hard pressed to find a dude like Brady in any other sport. Best I got are Jordan, Bill Russell and Serena Williams. I seriously can't think of many others who are chasing ghosts like that group.
 
That's basically it. If you're arguing who (as a player) has had the most successful NFL career, arguing anyone but Brady is pointless. If you're just talking about the most skilled/valuable player, the guy you would draft if you had the #1 pick and a time machine, then things actually get interesting. And then super bowls carry no more weight than any other game against a good team. Brady is still adding to his career successes but it's not like he's showing off any new abilities we haven't seen in the rest of his 15 years.
 
That's basically it. If you're arguing who (as a player) has had the most successful NFL career, arguing anyone but Brady is pointless. If you're just talking about the most skilled/valuable player, the guy you would draft if you had the #1 pick and a time machine, then things actually get interesting. And then super bowls carry no more weight than any other game against a good team. Brady is still adding to his career successes but it's not like he's showing off any new abilities we haven't seen in the rest of his 15 years.
Minus the fact that Brady came back from a 25 point deficit in the Super Bowl which is new cause it's never happened before
 

Mr.E

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Brady didn't come back from shit, other than as a strict matter of fact, game was 100% Falcons to lose. That game doesn't do much for me with regard to his all-time standing, the 4th already kinda forced me to bump him above Manning and a meh performance that ended up with the Falcons melting down for him still doesn't put him above Montana for me. And regarding football as a whole, not just QBs, I wouldn't dismiss Jerry Rice either. Brady's a hell of a competitor though and it's certainly inarguable at this point that he's had the most successful career THANKS ZEBRAIKEN ZEBSTRIKA.

I'm still taking Manning over Brady to start my hypothetical franchise because he basically doubles as my offensive coordinator.

actually tbh I'd take belichick #1
 
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