Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Magcargo]

Hey guys long time no see I've been losing to shit like relic song scarf meloetta getting 3 sleeps consecutively on me in low ladder

So what do you guys think about in general rn? I mean yeah yeah I get obliterated by raging bolt but nothing's new on that front, but else from that I think it's still pretty solid. I mean I've been using a scarf set with razor, ceaseless, sacred (I uhh gambit dies trust!! Also it hits arch and kyurem so that's that) and flip turn

I mean yeah I still die to uhm.... Every hyper powered threat to exist, BUTTT It can do stuff yep mhm trust

Yeah, Scarf is really good, my favorite set currently. Lots of Cinderace and Dragapult lead and unknowingly stay in on it,, so it winds up cheesing a lot of free kills. Other sets like AV have also been doing work from my exp, but Scarf has it all, between 3 brainless moves to click (Knock, Ceaseless, and Flip Turn), a decent speed tier, and being the only scarfer capable of setting up Spikes while attacking. The one weakness is that its a scarfer that doesn't outspeed +1 Volcarona, so it falters as speed control in that area.

 

[DaRotomMachine]

Okay, so how do we build a team for the Encore set? It needs to have a partner that can deal with Trick Room Hat, probably needs Ice beam for chip on Dragon types, and it has to have a nice match-up against Sub users that imo should not depend on Glowking switches.

You mean for Hamurott? Well, you need a Ghost type if you intend on keeping the hazards there (such as gholdengo, with "deals with Trick Room Hatt) and you would need breakers that take advantage of the chip those hazards give you.

 

[Lucky $trike]

Can someone explain to me why the weather rocks/weather has not been seriously considered to be banned in some way? Sun and rain have been broken multiple times this generation, especially with the introduction of protosynthesis and it’s power is exacerbated by Tera.
I have a feeling once Archaludon is gone, Gouging Fire/Raging Bolt will take over. GF essentially has no switch ins under sun. Voters as a whole seem reluctant to ban other pokemon, but I could see support in reducing weather’s impact.

 

[DaRotomMachine]

Can someone explain to me why the weather rocks/weather has not been seriously considered to be banned in some way? Sun and rain have been broken multiple times this generation, especially with the introduction of protosynthesis and it’s power is exacerbated by Tera.
I have a feeling once Archaludon is gone, Gouging Fire/Raging Bolt will take over. GF essentially has no switch ins under sun. Voters as a whole seem reluctant to ban other pokemon, but I could see support in reducing weather’s impact.

I think because its the pokemon that abuse it have a higher prioity than the weather itself. You said it yourself, Gouging Fire has no switchins in Sun for example. If they adress it, they are probably going to adress the pokemon that caused the weather to be broken (e.g. Archalodon on Rain.), not the weather itself.

If they do, the they are probably gonna just ban the Rocks that extend the weather, Smooth, Damp, Heat, and Icy Rock.

 

[Lucky $trike]

I think because its the pokemon that abuse it have a higher prioity than the weather itself. You said it yourself, Gouging Fire has no switchins in Sun for example. If they adress it, they are probably going to adress the pokemon that caused the weather to be broken (e.g. Archalodon on Rain.), not the weather itself.

If they do, the they are probably gonna just ban the Rocks that extend the weather, Smooth, Damp, Heat, and Icy Rock.

Yeah I am just very very doubtful broken things get banned after the Kyurem suspect. CTC or some other high level player will make a long post about how everyone but the top 25 players are garbage and should just learn to play around a threat lol. Which is maybe fair, but I think a weather rock could more easily get more support.

 

[DaRotomMachine]

CTC or some other high level player will make a long post about how everyone but the top 25 players are garbage and should just learn to play around a threat lol.

Even the top players say that Arch right now is too restricting on the teambuilder. They also said that during the Kyurem suspect but it wasn't banned, but Arch is probably gonna get banned AND IT WON'T COME CLOSE.

 

[lucky333]

As your standard attacker, he is kinda outclassed by the plethora of other attackers, yeah, both in speed and power. I find hazards not that important to sun (unless you wanna do a gimmick team with sticky web Levanny or Smeargle which allows you to use full power banded Gouging Fire against faster teams). You don't have a hazard blocker on sun most of time since you yourself hate having hazards up and I would rather fill it with as much firepower as possible rather then wasting a few turns setting up hazards. Torkoal also has SR for sturdy and sash breakers. I would say on sun offense team, Sandy doesn't really have a place. Even as a pivot, WW learns Flip turn.

You have probably have encountered countless sun teams on the ladder right? In a sun vs sun MU, it is usually "who uses their Walking Wake better?" WW puts way too much pressure on sun teams since most of their resists are offensive mons that don't like taking it's secondary attacks. That is why almost every sun team leads with WW or Moon. It usually comes down to a speed tie about who will win the sun wars. Here is a particular set that I have been thinking of:

Sandy Shocks @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mirror Coat
- Volt Switch
- Earth Power
- Tera Blast

You can change tera to something like grass or others like Fairy for Gambit can be useful too.

Here are some calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Sandy Shocks: 272-324 (72.7 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

After that you mirror coat him into oblivion and you have won the walking Wake wars

Raging Bolt is another Mon that sun abolutely hates:

+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Sandy Shocks: 166-196 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO

He also deals with Arch and is good against rain. No need for calcs, the numbers are so little they don't even matter.

I would recommend him with a wish user like Scream tail or even Alo. Not good against stall obviously but if you pair him with a breaker or two, this shouldn't be an issue. Sun spots are really limited but it also has sooo many options (Torkoal, WW, Hatt are usually your sun staples I guess and then it is a mix of Chloro user, a sun core breaker and either additional hazard control or priority user that doesn't rely on sun too much). I was thinking maybe building a bulkier sun structure could help fit him in instead of trying building sun offense (I have seen spdef Roaring Moon and Scream paired together) so you can maybe drop Hatt. Heck that set might even be good on other non-weather teams that are more forgiving with their team spots.

Anyway just my 2 cents, that set is by no means meta defining, but it does give it an important niche.

Edit: I suppose Magnezone might do a better job for sun less teams but goobing Arch while not being weak to fighthing or fire moves still gives it a niche I would say. It also doesn't lure in WW into attacking you as much since you are a ground type which is really important.

So I tested out Assault Vest Sandy in Sun with my alternativ account and all I can say is....it is suprisingly nice. The Dragapult MU becomes much less annoying and key threats like Raging Bolt, Valiant and Arch become less scary against sun. It serves as a great glue to sun teams that can pivot around otherwise dangorous threats. Here are some reply for anyone curious. Pairing him with strong breakers like Wake or Fire gives sun some breathing room for a team that ususally lacks defensive backbone. Some replays:


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2059555063-u8q1uvn62el5j44u95nso8vehft84fjpw against sticky web

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2059571186-nbftinc6nezoc3myn19cdc89zwnypzjpw vs sun (it did one thing but it was probably the most important against sun)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2059526990-xr2mip1zdxd3a7dwm7zs93hyiv4eluspw Did a fantastic job here. Weakend Slowking, Valiant and RK Neck. Ignore me doing throwing away Walking Wake like a dumbass

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2059538698-6c5zr6812x6uiin8uffah888u3abbrtpw VS rain.

Overall solid mon. It did, what I wanted it to do. And I made alot of bad plays too.

 

[tommytt22]

long time no see. i did eventually test out doom desire jirachi. It was better than i expected (i expected it to pretty bad). but its really matchup dependant. if the opponent's dark type is meowscarada or darkrai or weavile you feel like a god but if their dark type is kingambit or ting lu its miserable. I think i like AV iron crown better with future sight. anyway thats all for now

 

[weirdo faye]

This meta is so great the ou ladder is completely dead much waow! I told people the ladder is dead for ou and they defended it by saying im an sea/oce player who plays at dead times, but i think this is a peak pst/na time no? Stop coping, the ladder never used to be this dead in the past, people just dont want to play xdd

 

[RaikouLover]

View attachment 604661

This meta is so great the ou ladder is completely dead much waow! I told people the ladder is dead for ou and they defended it by saying im an sea/oce player who plays at dead times, but i think this is a peak pst/na time no? Stop coping, the ladder never used to be this dead in the past, people just dont want to play xdd

It is dead. The meta needs serious help. Doesn't seem like there is enough will to change it though.

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

View attachment 604661

This meta is so great the ou ladder is completely dead much waow! I told people the ladder is dead for ou and they defended it by saying im an sea/oce player who plays at dead times, but i think this is a peak pst/na time no? Stop coping, the ladder never used to be this dead in the past, people just dont want to play xdd

its valentines day evening.

 

[Finchinator]

the ladder is plenty active right now; it has been for a couple of hours, too. and that is despite it being essentially a holiday and now a couple hours after peak

there is plenty of data to back the game still being quite popular, too. obviously it peaks closer to new releases, but retention is still good and the format is popular

 

[Ehmcee]

With the Archaludon vote coming up, wanted to drop a really heat set I've seen success with and tried building around for OST, AV Iron Hands:

Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 12 HP / 152 Atk / 248 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Wild Charge
- Heavy Slam / Rock Slide​

This idea came into mind while theorycrafting a good check to Archaludon and Raging Bolt, both being very similar in the way that they Spam strong electric and Dragon moves. Realistically I needed a mon that didn't need to predict in the face of these guys, I ended up finding this guy, who resists both their Electric moves, and has incredible bulk when combined with AV:

The damage calcs were too good to ignore as well:

Defensive Calcs

252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 12 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 127-150 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 12 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 189-223 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ SpA Archaludon Electro Shot vs. 12 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 69-81 (15.2 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO
+1 252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 12 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 207-244 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO

Offensive Calcs

112 Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 188-224 (50.5 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
112 Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. +1 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 126-150 (33.8 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
112 Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. +2 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 96-114 (25.8 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
(Drain Punch 3hko's from full)

112 Atk Iron Hands Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Archaludon: 202-238 (54.3 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
112 Atk Iron Hands Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. +1 204 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Archaludon: 136-160 (36.5 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

112 Atk Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 166-196 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
112 Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 124-147 (30.4 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

While the offensive calcs aren't as great, it's a terrific way to soften up these guys at the very least for revenge killers in the back, which can usually be extremely hard to do if they expend their Tera.

After some extra research, I ended up figuring that this guy bodies rain, like super hard. Incredible matchup into the core 4 of Pelipper/Barraskewda/Archaludon/Iron Treads, as well as beating the aforementioned Raging Bolt as well as Kingambit, Tornadus-T, Zapdos and Primarina (EV's creep no speed Prim), which are commonly on these structures. Tera Grass allows us to defensively Tera against Barraskewda, as well as keeping our Electric resistance and giving us a ground resistance instead of a weakness.

Now while I personally prefer Heavy Slam, since it beats IVal, Clef and Tera Fairy Gambit as well, Rock Slide is also a good option to body Volcarona and Moltres. I personally built this alongside Grassy Terrain support as well as Wish support from Alomomola, and they formed a really fun core that had a super good matchup into rain.

Heat is still possible in this meta, y'all just have to be creative :)

 

[Heatranator]

"The ladder is dead"

Dead ladder btw guys

 

[EpicGuy321]

I stalled out a person today using pp stalling tricks, and they were still super nice to me. Like I felt genuinelly bad about it as I was just testing out a team revision and I was seeing how it worked. Be like them, who despite having multiple mons pp stalled, still was really nice. For every 5 salty players, you will find one nice player.

People tend to get upset and forget that there's a person on the other side, I think.

 

[Carl_the_turtle]

"The ladder is dead"
View attachment 604683
Dead ladder btw guys

every user on pokemon showdown at any given time is part of the ou community and every battle is in the scarlet and violet overused format
like i don't know why they're saying that its dead but this isn't a good argument against it i think

 

[Morkal]

Hi guys, sorry I haven't been as active the last week or so - life be busy and filled with life things; here's a set I like

Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Focus Blast
- Bitter Malice
- Knock Off
- U-turn​

Utility Specs Zoroark - nuke things with Focus Blast; also Tera Fighting to resist Dark-type moves like Kingambit's Sucker Punch or Darkrai's Dark Pulse + brings the power up to nuclear levels. H-Zoroark's ability to enable the entire team to play mind games with switches should not be underestimated, especially in higher-level play. Knock Off + U-Turn is an incredible utility combination that provides momentum and can cripple half of your opponent's team if you bring it in and out enough. Bitter Malice is a fantastic STAB move that can allow Zoroark-Hisui to potentially survive some unexpectedly powerful hits while still chunking the opponent thanks to Choice Specs. Fun mon and has been slept on this generation, entire teams can be built around multiple different sets; it's a really flexible mon in the teambuilder.

 

[Heatranator]

Hi guys, sorry I haven't been as active the last week or so - life be busy and filled with life things; here's a set I like

Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Focus Blast
- Bitter Malice
- Knock Off
- U-turn​

Utility Specs Zoroark - nuke things with Focus Blast; also Tera Fighting to resist Dark-type moves like Kingambit's Sucker Punch or Darkrai's Dark Pulse + brings the power up to nuclear levels. H-Zoroark's ability to enable the entire team to play mind games with switches should not be underestimated, especially in higher-level play. Knock Off + U-Turn is an incredible utility combination that provides momentum and can cripple half of your opponent's team if you bring it in and out enough. Bitter Malice is a fantastic STAB move that can allow Zoroark-Hisui to potentially survive some unexpectedly powerful hits while still chunking the opponent thanks to Choice Specs. Fun mon and has been slept on this generation, entire teams can be built around multiple different sets; it's a really flexible mon in the teambuilder.

I love using knock off on special attackers, it is so fun and can be quite good. I've used both swords dance darkrai (becuase why not, it gets knock off, drain punch and poison jab), and knock off dakrai on a nasty plot set. It is great for progress against special walls. Love to see your work. :)

 

[sims796]

With the Archaludon vote coming up, wanted to drop a really heat set I've seen success with and tried building around for OST, AV Iron Hands:

Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 12 HP / 152 Atk / 248 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Wild Charge
- Heavy Slam / Rock Slide​

This idea came into mind while theorycrafting a good check to Archaludon and Raging Bolt, both being very similar in the way that they Spam strong electric and Dragon moves. Realistically I needed a mon that didn't need to predict in the face of these guys, I ended up finding this guy, who resists both their Electric moves, and has incredible bulk when combined with AV:

The damage calcs were too good to ignore as well:

Defensive Calcs

252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 12 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 127-150 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 12 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 189-223 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ SpA Archaludon Electro Shot vs. 12 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 69-81 (15.2 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO
+1 252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 12 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 207-244 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO

Offensive Calcs

112 Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 188-224 (50.5 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
112 Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. +1 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 126-150 (33.8 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
112 Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. +2 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 96-114 (25.8 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
(Drain Punch 3hko's from full)

112 Atk Iron Hands Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Archaludon: 202-238 (54.3 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
112 Atk Iron Hands Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. +1 204 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Archaludon: 136-160 (36.5 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

112 Atk Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 166-196 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
112 Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 124-147 (30.4 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

While the offensive calcs aren't as great, it's a terrific way to soften up these guys at the very least for revenge killers in the back, which can usually be extremely hard to do if they expend their Tera.

After some extra research, I ended up figuring that this guy bodies rain, like super hard. Incredible matchup into the core 4 of Pelipper/Barraskewda/Archaludon/Iron Treads, as well as beating the aforementioned Raging Bolt as well as Kingambit, Tornadus-T, Zapdos and Primarina (EV's creep no speed Prim), which are commonly on these structures. Tera Grass allows us to defensively Tera against Barraskewda, as well as keeping our Electric resistance and giving us a ground resistance instead of a weakness.

Now while I personally prefer Heavy Slam, since it beats IVal as well, Rock Slide is also a good option to body Volcarona.
I personally built this alongside Grassy Terrain support as well as Wish support from Alomomola, and they formed a really fun core that had a super good matchup into rain.

Heat is still possible in this meta, y'all just have to be creative :)

My goddamn hero! What is IVal? An acronym?

 

[Ehmcee]

My goddamn hero! What is IVal? An acronym?

Iron Valiant

 

[sims796]

Iron Valiant

This insomnia gets better and better! I was about to whine about Volc, then I saw Rock Slide. I'm sold!

 

[Heatranator]

I am right now trying out aqua ring, thick fat azumarill to try to pp stall more mons, along with landorus-T. I need someone to help me out of this madness.

 

[Local Dog]

I am right now trying out aqua ring, thick fat azumarill to try to pp stall more mons, along with landorus-T. I need someone to help me out of this madness.

Use eviolite marill instead. I think it will do better

 

[Heatranator]

Use eviolite marill instead. I think it will do better

Azumarill worked alright, but it didn't have enough damage to effectively deal with things. Lando-T was alright, but I have settled into using quagsire with unaware which can stall things out and moltres, which can do pressure stalling. I could probably switch moltres out for something like zapdos, but most pressure mons are Ubers, so that sucks.
I will keep marill as an idea if I need to deal with kyurem, if you know what I mean.

 

[weirdo faye]

every user on pokemon showdown at any given time is part of the ou community and every battle is in the scarlet and violet overused format
like i don't know why they're saying that its dead but this isn't a good argument against it i think

i think most of the battles are random battles actually, 2nd most played is ou then the other tiers, and its dead otherwise u wouldnt have people in the 1500s matching with someone whos nearly 1900, ive been max 1750 this generation and i was getting matched with and my ass wooped by people in the 1900s, i saved those replays so i could use their teams as reference to build my own

also in my heyday ive been at the very top of the ladder during olt period too and the game would never match me with someone 200-300 points lower even if i played during my timezone which is considered the dead time so yes i think its dead af

i was thinking of laddering to top 10 to see if i could do it but tbh i dont think i can given im not great/consistent at gen9 and have to tank a -35/40 if i lose to someone 300 points below me