Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Eeveeto]

As long as Waterpon and Dondozo are in the Tier, BD Azumarill has no future. Band however, paired with Volturn support can still be a competent breaker, since it regained Knock Off to cripple foes it can't break (like Dozo). Doesn't even need Rain, though certainly appreciates it.

 

[Heatranator]

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Chatting About Offensive Waters
​

This is meant to be a metagame analysis than a guide or discussion. This format is based off the style of many ORAS UU posts. If can check them out right here, they helped me understand ORAS UU and inspired my posts. Anyways, onto the actual topic. The tides are rough with three powerful offensive Waters in the tier. Originally this mantle was taken by Watershifu in Gen 8, Ash Gren in Gen 7, Keldeo in Gens 5-6, and Starmie in Gens 4-1. Now we have three offensive waters that have been garnering excellent results on ladder and tours like OLT/ST/SPL. Part of what has made them successful in the first place is that bulky waters like Slowbro and Toxapex were heavily nerfed in Gen 9. Also some strong Water resists like Ferrothorn and Tangrowth were flat out removed. While the tier isn’t short of Water type checks, their unique attributes and secondary typings are what allowed them to dominate SV OU. To the point where slotting in 2 of them at the same team is not unheard of.

The Big Ocean
​

View attachment 625854(good wogre sprites dont exist)
Beware the Ogre:
-Wogre has been a controversial mon since DLC1.

-When DLC2 released, it was believed that Wogre had fallen off due to new additions like Raging Bolt, Kyurem, Hydrapple, and Archaludon. However once new toy syndrome wore off and Arch was banned, Wogre made a huge comeback, becoming one of the best mons in the tier.

-Its presence is arguably more potent with Amoonguss being less common due to the Sleep ban.

-The main selling point is Wogre’s Grass/Water typing, which factors in both its offensive and defensive profile. The Wellspring Mask acts as a permanent Booster Energy, which brings Wogre’s decent base 120 Atk close to 148 base Atk. It is what I consider to be the Kartana of Gen 9. The centralizing nature puts a strain on Balance teams due to its raw power. Ivy Cudgel is a base 100 Water move with no drawbacks, doesn’t even make contact.

-Wogre made its strive in DLC2 with a set of Swords Dance, STABs, and Play Rough or Encore. However Wogre has tested the waters with other options. Pivot sets, Knock Off which can cripple Fat teams in conjunction with Spikes while being a response to the sudden high usage of Sinistcha. Even Spikes were seen on Wogre due to its natural ability to force switches and matchup with Tusk.

-Defensively, Wogre provides value in checking Tusk and also Volc via Tera Water. Absorbing Knock Off, and also preventing Mola from freely spamming Flip Turn.

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The Last Samurott:
-Samurott-H is what inspired me to make this post. I find it to be one of the most well-designed and fun mons introduced.

-It has the stats of an NU mon, but with one of the best moves in the game, Ceaseless Edge, allowing Samu to create Spikes, not affected by Magic Bounce or Taunt. This groundbreaking X factor is what has put Samurott on the map.

-It’s not just a Spike machine however, Sharpness boosts the BP of moves like Razor Shell, Ceaseless, and Sacred Sword by 1.5x, allowing it to keep up with offensive monsters like Kingambit. Samu also packs excellent utility with Encore, Knock Off, and Flip Turn which perfectly complements its toolkit. Encore in particular is a big move vs Gambit and defensive teams.

-We’ve seen this with BO builds utilizing Boots Encore Samu. Despite having 2 priority moves, the most common sets don’t run them. I think Samurott has several sets or variants it can run.

-Scarf Samu is a set that improves its matchup with Offense, surprising mons like Dragapult. Tera Fighting Sacred Sword is an option that picks off surprise kills on Kyurem and AoA Darkrai while dealing big damage to Zamazenta.

-Lum Swords Dance can punish Mola and Gliscor for staying in. +2 Sucker Punch can also catch offensive threats off-guard. With Tera Dark, it can even one shot Rillaboom and Wogre after chip.

-Sub-Encore is a cool set that can punish Mola and also blank Garganacl. Substitute also synergizes excellently with Encore. Thus ruining alot of Balance teams. Assault Vest is really nice for improving Samu’s defensive utility. Living Darkrai’s Focus Blast, being a more reliable Ghold check, among other things.

-Choice Band is niche but fun as hell. Lets you 2HKO targets like Skarmory, Corviknight, and Amoonguss while Tera Dark outright 2HKOs Mola.

-It is one of my favorite mons to use on BO and even Balance. Its nearly unresisted offensive typing, Ceaseless Edge and ability to run different items over Wogre allowed it to thrive in this meta.

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Part Of OU’s World:
-Primarina being one of the best mons in the tier was a surprise. For two generations, it was outclassed by Tapu Fini and unable to break defensive titans like Ferrothorn or Toxapex. It was also threatened offensively by Koko and Kartana.

-With all of these weighing it down being gone, Primarina was able to swim up to the top, being OU for the first time since Pre-DLC SS OU.

-It is an OU staple not propelled by ridiculous tools like Samu’s Ceaseless Edge or Wogre’s no drawback Water STAB, but rather honestly with its great typing and stats.

-Like its watery brother and sister, Primarina is incredibly threatening offensively this time around, its high SpA and Water/Fairy STAB. Only really checked defensively by Blissey, WA Clodsire, Glowking, Amoonguss, and Volcanion.

-Psychic Noise is a new addition to Prima’s toolkit that is either coverage or a STAB option with Liquid Voice that prevents recovery from defensive stalwarts.

-The most common set is Calm Mind which has excellent role compression and with Tera, can outright 6-0 unprepped teams.

-Options like Draining Kiss and Encore also pop up every so often. Assault Vest variants require support and fit on only specific teams, but can trade with offensive teams. Choice Specs is rare but can OHKO targets like Wogre after rocks and has few switch ins, but imo it is a bit redundant since Prima is already annoying to switch into and misses out on passive recovery with Lefties, surprise kills with Custap, or the Spikes immunity with Boots.

-Prima pairs nicely with many offensive threats like Volcarona, Kingambit, Wogre, Samurott, Raging Bolt, etc, making it a staple on Bulky Offense. The ability to switch between offensive and defensive os unmatched by most of the tier and remains a strong team player in any matchup.

-It trades with offense, breaks holes vs Balance and Stall, shits on Sun/Rain, and can prevent many cheese strats like Trick Room.

-What makes it stand out is how honest it is compared to the other OU titans like I said earlier. It reminds me of Offensive Swampert in ADV or Volcanion in ORAS, and I think Prima fulfills a healthy role in the tier.

Waters Slowly Lost To The Current
​

This is dedicated to the mons that have fallen off, but still find usage in SV OU.

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The Wake That Lost Its Sea Legs:
-With Sun declining in usage, it is natural that Walking Wake would follow. Sun does still see use, especially on mid ladder, but Sun is not accounted for in the builder like it used to.

-Part of the reason is that Sun has several bad matchups that are frequently seen on teams. Primarina can Sub on Torkoal and trade with whatever switches in.

-Raging Bolt and Kingambit’s priority is polarizing for Sun to handle, even with measures like Great Tusk. It’s hard to click Hydro Steam with the presence of Wogre.

-Earthquakes and Headlong Rushes are incredibly annoying to navigate around due to the archetype lacking Ground immunes on many builds. Glowking is an infamous matchup due to its ability to sponge Wake’s hits with Tera Water and pivot out to reset the weather.

-With the right Tera, Volcarona can outright 6-0 Sun. Dragonite is another annoying matchup, especially if Wake can’t click Draco comfortably.

-This is not to say Sun can’t play around its bad matchups, because it absolutely can, as observed through success on the ladder and tours, but the archetype no longer stands close to the forefront.

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A Glow Turned Dimmer:
-Manaphy has taken a steep fall from DLC1 where it was considered potentially suspect worthy, however it has seen success on Webs which risen in popularity since March.

-With Tera Fairy and Tail Glow/Scald/Alluring Voice/E-Ball or Ice Beam, it can break holes vs Balance teams that have been on the rise.

-Manaphy has also seen brief appearences on Rain to abuse Hydration + Rest to go full out on Fat teams.

-It does face competition with Primarina who’s better vs Offense while being threatening without a boost. Manaphy’s higher speed tier does get the jump on Lando, Tusk, Ghold, Kyurem, and Glimm.

View attachment 625859
Is It Grenover?:
-Early on in Gen 9’s meta, Greninja first found success as a fast wallbreaker that threatened common staples like Tusk, Garg, and Ghold with its STABs.

-In Home, it found a place in the tier over Wake as a cleaner thanks to the reworks to Battle Bond now giving it a +1 boost to Atk, SpA, and Speed. Even in DLC1 where Wogre and Rilla roam around freely, Greninja managed to make it into OU, but something happened in DLC2.

-Primarina was not only competition to Greninja, but also a check. Raging Bolt had strong priority and could switch into it once or twice. Greninja also had competition with Darkrai who was stronger, faster, bulkier, and had several toys to play with like Wisp or Knock Off.

-Roaring Moon being unbanned also means Ice Beam is a near requirement.

-Greninja is also more picky with Teras and unfortunately it doesn’t have a Tera it can stick to in response to priority.

-Ice Beam also means Water Shuriken is harder to splash, especially since it would need Gunk Shot to bypass Primarina.

-It is certainly not a bad Pokemon. Greninja has proven to do well into certain builds and in the right conditions it could sweep, but it is more inconsistent and harder to justify when looking at its competition.

-I believe a mixed set with Surf/D-Pulse/Ice Beam/Gunk Shot is the way to go with Greninja.

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The Bridge Has Fallen:
-It is impossible not to talk about offensive water types without mentioning Rain.

-While the archetype is still viable, like with Sun, the hay-day of Rain is over ever since Archaludon left the meta. Arch leaving also resulted in Wogre skyrocketing in usage, making Barra’s Water STAB harder to spam and Wogre also blasts through with boosted Ivy Cudgels.

-Without Arch, Rilla is less trivial for Rain to check. Like Sun, Rain also gets annoyed by strong priority from Raging Bolt and Kingambit.

-Compared to how it was in the Arch meta or even all the way back in Gen 7 or 8, Rain has a higher skill cap. Rain teams need innovative pathways like Moltres to check Rilla or AV Goodra who acts as a bootleg Archaludon. Rain is also strong vs HO and even Webs since Barra outspeeds them even with Webs up.

-I am less qualified to talk about Rain. So Delibird Heart, this one’s all your’s.

Small Ponds​

This is for the more niche offensive waters that managed to find a role among these contentious threats or have potential to find one.

View attachment 625865
Spewing Hot Water:
-Out of the rest of these, Volcanion finds the most success.

-It has had a back and forth period throughout SV OU, but lately Volcanion has found its footing as a trapper with defensive utility. Fire Spin + Taunt can take down walls like Glowking, Blissey, Clodsire, and Alomomola.

-Volcanion also fixes two difficult matchups for Balance, those being Primarina and Mola + Breaker builds.

-Not only does Volcanion block Flip Turn, but it also threatens to trap something on its team. Some Molas have responded to this with Mirror Coat, but using that often means losing out on Protect or other options.

-Vs Primarina, Volcanion is capable of avoiding a 2HKO from even a +1 Moonblast and 3HKOing back with Sludge Bomb.

-Volcanion also has other niches like helping teams pivot around Specs Kyurem and Wogre, or spreading Burns with Steam Eruption and Will O Wisp. making it valuable for checking Kingambit.

-Tera Ghost also helps with the Roar Zama matchup. This is relevant since Volcanion has been shown on more offensive builds due to its matchup with Balance/Stall and Primarina.

-Some exploration of Volcanion includes Taunt + Wisp and Endure Custap.

-Volcanion holds a role in SV OU not replicable by anything in the tier and may see even higher usage if its defensive value finds more focus.

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Are Unicorn Horns Still Magical?:
-Keldeo has had a long history in OU, and is a blue print to the modern offensive water.

-Keldeo’s raw power made it arguably banworthy in BW while being a strong pick in ORAS.

-Afterwards, Keldeo started steeping downwards, unable to compete with the shiny Ash Greninja and Watershifu while being threatened by the likes of Tapu Koko, Dragapult, Tapu Fini, and Scarf Kartana. It also cannot break past Toxapex, one of the biggest defensive walls from Gen 7 to 8.

-In Gen 9 there was some interesting changes. The Tapus and UBs were cut, Toxapex was heavily nerfed, and Vacuum Wave gave Keldeo sudden access to priority.

-There are still multiple threats that could outspeed and/or one-shot Keldeo (Valiant, Primarina, Deoxys-Speed, Raging Bolt, Ogerpon-W), but Keldeo has found a place on a few teams.

-Keldeo’s Water/Fighting typing is valuable defensively. Being able to switch into Samu, Gambit, and pivot around Darkrai is quite valuable on a wallbreaker.

-Vacuum Wave also sees value in a fast-paced meta, picking off Darkrai, Weavile, and pre-Tera Gambit.

-Keldeo can deal some surprising damage to defensive teams. With Tera Fighting it can even 2HKO Offensive Primarina and also Clodsire with Specs Secret Sword. Specs Tera Water Hydro Pump can straight up 2HKO bulky Prima.

-These traits are nice, but I have found this thing hard to splash on a team (hehe get it). Prima is generally the better pick, and Keldeo’s better speed, priority, and matchup with Kingambit doesn’t come together as often compared to what Prima provides.

-For the Gambit matchup, I often gravitate towards H-Samu, but Keldeo does show what it can do if the stars align.

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Blue Rabbit (Azumarill, not the ice cream brand):
-Azumarill was a semi-popular pick in Home as a bulky Fairy and Water resist which was rare before options like Clef and Prima. This was important as it was one of the few mons that resisted both of Bax’s STABs. (This didn’t matter much since +2 Icicle Crash still ruined this.)

-In DLC2 though, it doesn’t get to shine as often. Slow, Spikes weak, and outclassed by other offensive Waters, namely Wogre who also blocks Aqua Jet. What Azumarill can do is good, but not particularly unique from its competition.

-Azumarill wants to run max Speed Adamant or Jolly for Corviknight or Skeledirge which cuts on its solid bulk.

-It might find some wiggle room every now and then. Strong priority is nice, it has a better matchup into Volc than Wogre due to hitting it on the physical side with Aqua Jet, and it’s a decent answer to Stall teams running bulky Grasses as a response to Wogre since Adamant Tera Fairy Play Rough 2HKOs most Stall staples, including a small roll of 2HKOing a max physically defensive Amoonguss after rocks.

-If Stall and Balance teams run more extreme Wogre measures, we could see Azumarill take advantage of that.

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Hurricane Katrina:
-Mimikyu Stardust brought Quaquaval up as an alright mon with good traits.

-Quaquaval is weird, not just cause of its design but cause it feels like a mon that on paper should be a staple mon. Decent stats followed by a good ability and great defensive typing. Amazing STAB options with Aqua Step/Wave Crash and CC/Low Kick, support options like Encore, Rapid Spin, U-Turn and reliable recovery. 2 great setup moves with Bulk Up and Swords Dance along with Taunt. Great coverage with Axel, Brave Bird, and Knock Off.

-It should be great all things considered, in fact during the very early days of SV OU it was OU via usage, so what happened?

-It faces competition with Wogre and Samu as physical water types. Quaquaval’s stats are solid, but not great. 85/80/75 bulk is closer to Darkrai’s who is considered frail than something on the bulkier side like Watershifu.

-It has great utiloty but can never fit all of them. As a spinner it beats Samu, but you need to run Axel to actually spin vs Gliscor since it tanks an Aqua Step and Toxics you back.

-Quaq also struggles with mons like Raging Bolt, Wogre, Pult, Prima, etc.

-Encore though is very nice, but again, this isn’t unique to Quaq. Both Wogre and Samu in fact, get access to it.

-I think what Quaq needs to do is find its own specific role it can fill. One that neither those two can perform. Basically, Quaq might need to incorporate an offensive spinner role.

Combating The Tides
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Due to Wogre, Samu, and Prima’s dominating matchups vs bulkier teams, players have been starting to adapt.

-There has been a notable increase in bulky Grass resists like Amoonguss, Sinistcha, and even Wo-Chien on Stall/Balance.

-Corviknight is not bad into Wogre. Being able to avoid a 2HKO from unboosted Ivy after rocks, and being able to tank a +2 hit. Though Tera Water is likely one-shot this.

-Dragonite has a solid matchup into Wogre while also providing priority but needs to be careful with Samu and Prima.

-Rillaboom can threaten all three waters with Grassy Glide, but has to be wary of +2 Power Whip. Serperior is the closest to a hard counter.

-Bulky Serp can Glare Wogre and click Synthesis to heal itself up. It also outspeeds and threatens every other offensive Water.

-Grasspon is another mon that has solid matchups into these offensive waters but can’t directly switch into them. One great pairing is Mola + Grasspon since base Ogre can eat any hit from Wogre while it can Encore CM Prim.

-Raging Bolt can threaten all three with Thunderclap, but has to be wary of Prima’s Moonblast or Wogre’s Play Rough.

I think we will see more of these mons on bulkier teams, especially if Volc gets the Boot, and not the Heavy Duty-kind. Amoonguss also has some great matchups but also terrible ones like Gholdengo and Gliscor, but those can be covered by pairing it with a wallbreaker that exploits them like Samurott, Hoopa-U, Darkrai, etc. Sinistcha is criminally underrated for its ability to fix certain matchups, including walling Ursaluna which not even the Steel birds can consistently do. I said before that the tier needs viable sturdy Grass resists, and if these trends continue, that will end up being the case. Offensive Waters this gen are amazing due to their defensive niches being rewarded with raw uncontested power. Making use of the strengths of the Water typing that many others will before. First we had Starmie; then Keldeo, then Greninja, then Watershifu, and now Wogre/Prima/Samu.

I got another write-up coming, so stay tuned.

Love these posts that you make. I have used a few lower tier waters that I'll talk about.
Greninja sadly does not have enough power in this meta. I have tried a scarf set, and it hits so limply. One thing I will note that could be good that I haven't tested is tera blast dragon. This is good both offensively and defensively. Offensively, you can smack all the dragons around for super effective damage and if you go physical, you can run both gunk shot and low kick. Combine that with liquidation, and it could be decent (though special is probably better). Defensively, you resist both grassy glide and thunderclap, and don't retain any of your previous weaknesses. I'm interested in this set.
I believe azumarill is a great mon in the tier. As stated above, BD azumarill isn't good and knock off is pretty good. However, assault vest azumarill is amazing. Ice spinner isn't actually too good of a move on azu, you can't beat rillaboom anyways and the grass types either are not common or are not hit super effectively. Knock gives you the ability to have a consistent move and destroy ghold. Anyways, assault vest azu has the ability to trade with 2 mons at worst. It can take a specs kyurem freeze dry and ko it back with play rough. Any weaker special hit (which is most other special moves) bounce off it. Definitely try it out.
I also nominated this for higher. Quaq has a large support movepool that it can use to support its team. However, if you want to go offensive, a good niche option is upper hand. It means g-glide and thunderclap can't be used as counterplay, making quaq more threatening since you can't use priority to stop it. But encore is a really good move on it and combined with tera grass, means the bolt matchup is flipped on it's head. The main issue with it is 4mss, but it is a good mon that if supported right, can support it's team and sweep.

 

[Magcargo]

Fezandipiti @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Fire / Ground / Other
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Heat Wave / Tera Blast / U-turn / filler

Not gonna pretend this is some super consistent mon or anything, since it is extremely fishy depending on whether or not the opponent has one of Gking, Gliscor, or Heatran, but for those looking to try a random low tier mon, Fezandipti has been a pretty fun one to use. Against opposing CM users like Raging Bolt, Iron Valiant, Volcarona, and Primarina, it somewhat has the advantage because of its ludicrous special bulk and Toxic Chain, giving its main attacking move, Moonblast an incredibly high chance to cripple the opponent, either with a Special Attack drop or poison. I've found it to match up pretty well against a decent number of other top tiers too like Valiant, Enamorus, most Darkrai lacking Psyshock, and boots Kyurem. While the low damage is a bit problematic, Mooblast's good coverage and poison proc rate don't make it as big of an issue in practice, though breaking through Tera Poison mons, Heatran, or Gking is basically impossible. Being one of few T-Spikes absorbers in this meta is pretty valuable as well, if you don't wanna use bootspam (like me). So far, I've liked using Fezandipti as a partner to fairy and dark weak mons like Latios, Meowscarada, and Gholdengo, as it doesn't excentuate weaknesses like Galarian Slowking can sometimes do. I haven't found Fez to be TOO helpless against Gambit or Gholdengo either. With the EV Spread, +1 or Tera Fire Heat Wave is 2HKOing Max HP Gholdengo, and dealing high damage to Gambit, so it can't SD for free.

 

[658Greninja]

Fezandipiti @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Fire / Ground / Other
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Heat Wave / Tera Blast / U-turn / filler

Not gonna pretend this is some super consistent mon or anything, since it is extremely fishy depending on whether or not the opponent has one of Gking, Gliscor, or Heatran, but for those looking to try a random low tier mon, Fezandipti has been a pretty fun one to use. Against opposing CM users like Raging Bolt, Iron Valiant, Volcarona, and Primarina, it somewhat has the advantage because of its ludicrous special bulk and Toxic Chain, giving its main attacking move, Moonblast an incredibly high chance to cripple the opponent, either with a Special Attack drop or poison. I've found it to match up pretty well against a decent number of other top tiers too like Valiant, Enamorus, most Darkrai lacking Psyshock, and boots Kyurem. While the low damage is a bit problematic, Mooblast's good coverage and poison proc rate don't make it as big of an issue in practice, though breaking through Tera Poison mons, Heatran, or Gking is basically impossible. Being one of few T-Spikes absorbers in this meta is pretty valuable as well, if you don't wanna use bootspam (like me). So far, I've liked using Fezandipti as a partner to fairy and dark weak mons like Latios, Meowscarada, and Gholdengo, as it doesn't excentuate weaknesses like Galarian Slowking can sometimes do. I haven't found Fez to be TOO helpless against Gambit or Gholdengo either. With the EV Spread, +1 or Tera Fire Heat Wave is 2HKOing Max HP Gholdengo, and dealing high damage to Gambit, so it can't SD for free.

Fezandipiti @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 196 SpD / 64 Spe
Careful Nature
- Play Rough
- Roost
- Taunt/Toxic
- U-turn

I’ve actually considered doing a post on Fezandipiti a few days ago but Magcargo beat me to it. It has a really nice defensive typing and the bulk to back it up. Checking mons like Dragapult, Valiant, non-Heavy Slam Zama, Enamorus, Primarina, Raging Bolt, Grasspon, and Zapdos. The ability to absorb Tspikes is notable, and unlike Glowking, Fezan can actually check Darkrai, very consistently in fact. Even +2 Sludge Bomb can’t scratch a 2HKO besides LO or Tera Poison, but you can U-Turn on it into a faster threat. Taunt can shut down setup or Recovery from Garg and Dirge. I do wish it had some actual utility moves like Knock Off or better attacking stats, as the latter would help with its matchups against Glowking, Ghold, and Heatran. Most Steels hard wall it and so does Gliscor. A good pairing would be Samurott-H as Fez can bait the aformentioned mons to let Samu get to work, laying Spikes that makes Fez’s U-Turn more annoying. Specs Crown is another breaker Fez can pair with as it threatens huge damage on its checks, even potentially forcing Glowking to burn Tera, leaving it vulnerable to Fez’s Toxic Chain U-Turn. It does unfortunately overlap with several Balance staples like Glowking, Clef, and Prima, but it has niche potential. Probably a D tier mon (and honestly better than Smeargle who shouldn’t be ranked to begin with).

 

[Eeveeto]

View attachment 625996
Fezandipiti @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 196 SpD / 64 Spe
Careful Nature
- Play Rough
- Roost
- Taunt/Toxic
- U-turn

I’ve actually considered doing a post on Fezandipiti a few days ago but Magcargo beat me to it. It has a really nice defensive typing and the bulk to back it up. Checking mons like Dragapult, Valiant, non-Heavy Slam Zama, Enamorus, Primarina, Raging Bolt, Grasspon, and Zapdos. The ability to absorb Tspikes is notable, and unlike Glowking, Fezan can actually check Darkrai, very consistently in fact. Even +2 Sludge Bomb can’t scratch a 2HKO besides LO or Tera Poison, but you can U-Turn on it into a faster threat. Taunt can shut down setup or Recovery from Garg and Dirge. I do wish it had some actual utility moves like Knock Off or better attacking stats, as the latter would help with its matchups against Glowking, Ghold, and Heatran. Most Steels hard wall it and so does Gliscor. A good pairing would be Samurott-H as Fez can bait the aformentioned mons to let Samu get to work, laying Spikes that makes Fez’s U-Turn more annoying. Specs Crown is another breaker Fez can pair with as it threatens huge damage on its checks, even potentially forcing Glowking to burn Tera, leaving it vulnerable to Fez’s Toxic Chain U-Turn. It does unfortunately overlap with several Balance staples like Glowking, Clef, and Prima, but it has niche potential. Probably a D tier mon (and honestly better than Smeargle who shouldn’t be ranked to begin with).

I think that...
1. Moonblast is better than Play Rough. Yes, the Attack is higher, but it's still shit and you would rather always hit and have 30% to drop Special Attack.
2. Beat Up outclasses Toxic. 6 hits if I don't remember wrong is 88% of poison. Poison immune targets switch equally well into Toxic as into Beat Up and you would rather do some damage.

 

[658Greninja]

I think that...
1. Moonblast is better than Play Rough. Yes, the Attack is higher, but it's still shit and you would rather always hit and have 30% to drop Special Attack.
2. Beat Up outclasses Toxic. 6 hits if I don't remember wrong is 88% of poison. Poison immune targets switch equally well into Toxic as into Beat Up and you would rather do some damage.

Play Rough hits the aforementioned threats harder, especially since stuff like Primarina and Raging Bolt will be clicking Calm Mind. I will consider Beat Up though.

 

[Eeveeto]

Play Rough hits the aforementioned threats harder, especially since stuff like Primarina and Raging Bolt will be clicking Calm Mind. I will consider Beat Up though.

If Primarina is Sub, you are not breaking it with Play Rough either. It's also a common Tera Steel user. Meanwhile, vs Bolt the play is to use Beat Up in order to get the poison, then try to Stall it with Roost. A defensive Mon using inaccurate moves (which don't even do high damage,such as in this case, at least something like Ferrothorn does hurt with Power Whip) for me is one of the worst things ever.

 

[Kallum]

View attachment 625853
Chatting About Offensive Waters
​

This is meant to be a metagame analysis than a guide or discussion. This format is based off the style of many ORAS UU posts. If can check them out right here, they helped me understand ORAS UU and inspired my posts. Anyways, onto the actual topic. The tides are rough with three powerful offensive Waters in the tier. Originally this mantle was taken by Watershifu in Gen 8, Ash Gren in Gen 7, Keldeo in Gens 5-6, and Starmie in Gens 4-1. Now we have three offensive waters that have been garnering excellent results on ladder and tours like OLT/ST/SPL. Part of what has made them successful in the first place is that bulky waters like Slowbro and Toxapex were heavily nerfed in Gen 9. Also some strong Water resists like Ferrothorn and Tangrowth were flat out removed. While the tier isn’t short of Water type checks, their unique attributes and secondary typings are what allowed them to dominate SV OU. To the point where slotting in 2 of them at the same team is not unheard of.

The Big Ocean
​

View attachment 625854(good wogre sprites dont exist)
Beware the Ogre:
-Wogre has been a controversial mon since DLC1.

-When DLC2 released, it was believed that Wogre had fallen off due to new additions like Raging Bolt, Kyurem, Hydrapple, and Archaludon. However once new toy syndrome wore off and Arch was banned, Wogre made a huge comeback, becoming one of the best mons in the tier.

-Its presence is arguably more potent with Amoonguss being less common due to the Sleep ban.

-The main selling point is Wogre’s Grass/Water typing, which factors in both its offensive and defensive profile. The Wellspring Mask acts as a permanent Booster Energy, which brings Wogre’s decent base 120 Atk close to 148 base Atk. It is what I consider to be the Kartana of Gen 9. The centralizing nature puts a strain on Balance teams due to its raw power. Ivy Cudgel is a base 100 Water move with no drawbacks, doesn’t even make contact.

-Wogre made its strive in DLC2 with a set of Swords Dance, STABs, and Play Rough or Encore. However Wogre has tested the waters with other options. Pivot sets, Knock Off which can cripple Fat teams in conjunction with Spikes while being a response to the sudden high usage of Sinistcha. Even Spikes were seen on Wogre due to its natural ability to force switches and matchup with Tusk.

-Defensively, Wogre provides value in checking Tusk and also Volc via Tera Water. Absorbing Knock Off, and also preventing Mola from freely spamming Flip Turn.

View attachment 625855
The Last Samurott:
-Samurott-H is what inspired me to make this post. I find it to be one of the most well-designed and fun mons introduced.

-It has the stats of an NU mon, but with one of the best moves in the game, Ceaseless Edge, allowing Samu to create Spikes, not affected by Magic Bounce or Taunt. This groundbreaking X factor is what has put Samurott on the map.

-It’s not just a Spike machine however, Sharpness boosts the BP of moves like Razor Shell, Ceaseless, and Sacred Sword by 1.5x, allowing it to keep up with offensive monsters like Kingambit. Samu also packs excellent utility with Encore, Knock Off, and Flip Turn which perfectly complements its toolkit. Encore in particular is a big move vs Gambit and defensive teams.

-We’ve seen this with BO builds utilizing Boots Encore Samu. Despite having 2 priority moves, the most common sets don’t run them. I think Samurott has several sets or variants it can run.

-Scarf Samu is a set that improves its matchup with Offense, surprising mons like Dragapult. Tera Fighting Sacred Sword is an option that picks off surprise kills on Kyurem and AoA Darkrai while dealing big damage to Zamazenta.

-Lum Swords Dance can punish Mola and Gliscor for staying in. +2 Sucker Punch can also catch offensive threats off-guard. With Tera Dark, it can even one shot Rillaboom and Wogre after chip.

-Sub-Encore is a cool set that can punish Mola and also blank Garganacl. Substitute also synergizes excellently with Encore. Thus ruining alot of Balance teams. Assault Vest is really nice for improving Samu’s defensive utility. Living Darkrai’s Focus Blast, being a more reliable Ghold check, among other things.

-Choice Band is niche but fun as hell. Lets you 2HKO targets like Skarmory, Corviknight, and Amoonguss while Tera Dark outright 2HKOs Mola.

-It is one of my favorite mons to use on BO and even Balance. Its nearly unresisted offensive typing, Ceaseless Edge and ability to run different items over Wogre allowed it to thrive in this meta.

View attachment 625856
Part Of OU’s World:
-Primarina being one of the best mons in the tier was a surprise. For two generations, it was outclassed by Tapu Fini and unable to break defensive titans like Ferrothorn or Toxapex. It was also threatened offensively by Koko and Kartana.

-With all of these weighing it down being gone, Primarina was able to swim up to the top, being OU for the first time since Pre-DLC SS OU.

-It is an OU staple not propelled by ridiculous tools like Samu’s Ceaseless Edge or Wogre’s no drawback Water STAB, but rather honestly with its great typing and stats.

-Like its watery brother and sister, Primarina is incredibly threatening offensively this time around, its high SpA and Water/Fairy STAB. Only really checked defensively by Blissey, WA Clodsire, Glowking, Amoonguss, and Volcanion.

-Psychic Noise is a new addition to Prima’s toolkit that is either coverage or a STAB option with Liquid Voice that prevents recovery from defensive stalwarts.

-The most common set is Calm Mind which has excellent role compression and with Tera, can outright 6-0 unprepped teams.

-Options like Draining Kiss and Encore also pop up every so often. Assault Vest variants require support and fit on only specific teams, but can trade with offensive teams. Choice Specs is rare but can OHKO targets like Wogre after rocks and has few switch ins, but imo it is a bit redundant since Prima is already annoying to switch into and misses out on passive recovery with Lefties, surprise kills with Custap, or the Spikes immunity with Boots.

-Prima pairs nicely with many offensive threats like Volcarona, Kingambit, Wogre, Samurott, Raging Bolt, etc, making it a staple on Bulky Offense. The ability to switch between offensive and defensive os unmatched by most of the tier and remains a strong team player in any matchup.

-It trades with offense, breaks holes vs Balance and Stall, shits on Sun/Rain, and can prevent many cheese strats like Trick Room.

-What makes it stand out is how honest it is compared to the other OU titans like I said earlier. It reminds me of Offensive Swampert in ADV or Volcanion in ORAS, and I think Prima fulfills a healthy role in the tier.

Waters Slowly Lost To The Current
​

This is dedicated to the mons that have fallen off, but still find usage in SV OU.

View attachment 625857
The Wake That Lost Its Sea Legs:
-With Sun declining in usage, it is natural that Walking Wake would follow. Sun does still see use, especially on mid ladder, but Sun is not accounted for in the builder like it used to.

-Part of the reason is that Sun has several bad matchups that are frequently seen on teams. Primarina can Sub on Torkoal and trade with whatever switches in.

-Raging Bolt and Kingambit’s priority is polarizing for Sun to handle, even with measures like Great Tusk. It’s hard to click Hydro Steam with the presence of Wogre.

-Earthquakes and Headlong Rushes are incredibly annoying to navigate around due to the archetype lacking Ground immunes on many builds. Glowking is an infamous matchup due to its ability to sponge Wake’s hits with Tera Water and pivot out to reset the weather.

-With the right Tera, Volcarona can outright 6-0 Sun. Dragonite is another annoying matchup, especially if Wake can’t click Draco comfortably.

-This is not to say Sun can’t play around its bad matchups, because it absolutely can, as observed through success on the ladder and tours, but the archetype no longer stands close to the forefront.

View attachment 625858
A Glow Turned Dimmer:
-Manaphy has taken a steep fall from DLC1 where it was considered potentially suspect worthy, however it has seen success on Webs which risen in popularity since March.

-With Tera Fairy and Tail Glow/Scald/Alluring Voice/E-Ball or Ice Beam, it can break holes vs Balance teams that have been on the rise.

-Manaphy has also seen brief appearences on Rain to abuse Hydration + Rest to go full out on Fat teams.

-It does face competition with Primarina who’s better vs Offense while being threatening without a boost. Manaphy’s higher speed tier does get the jump on Lando, Tusk, Ghold, Kyurem, and Glimm.

View attachment 625859
Is It Grenover?:
-Early on in Gen 9’s meta, Greninja first found success as a fast wallbreaker that threatened common staples like Tusk, Garg, and Ghold with its STABs.

-In Home, it found a place in the tier over Wake as a cleaner thanks to the reworks to Battle Bond now giving it a +1 boost to Atk, SpA, and Speed. Even in DLC1 where Wogre and Rilla roam around freely, Greninja managed to make it into OU, but something happened in DLC2.

-Primarina was not only competition to Greninja, but also a check. Raging Bolt had strong priority and could switch into it once or twice. Greninja also had competition with Darkrai who was stronger, faster, bulkier, and had several toys to play with like Wisp or Knock Off.

-Roaring Moon being unbanned also means Ice Beam is a near requirement.

-Greninja is also more picky with Teras and unfortunately it doesn’t have a Tera it can stick to in response to priority.

-Ice Beam also means Water Shuriken is harder to splash, especially since it would need Gunk Shot to bypass Primarina.

-It is certainly not a bad Pokemon. Greninja has proven to do well into certain builds and in the right conditions it could sweep, but it is more inconsistent and harder to justify when looking at its competition.

-I believe a mixed set with Surf/D-Pulse/Ice Beam/Gunk Shot is the way to go with Greninja.

View attachment 625860View attachment 625861
The Bridge Has Fallen:
-It is impossible not to talk about offensive water types without mentioning Rain.

-While the archetype is still viable, like with Sun, the hay-day of Rain is over ever since Archaludon left the meta. Arch leaving also resulted in Wogre skyrocketing in usage, making Barra’s Water STAB harder to spam and Wogre also blasts through with boosted Ivy Cudgels.

-Without Arch, Rilla is less trivial for Rain to check. Like Sun, Rain also gets annoyed by strong priority from Raging Bolt and Kingambit.

-Compared to how it was in the Arch meta or even all the way back in Gen 7 or 8, Rain has a higher skill cap. Rain teams need innovative pathways like Moltres to check Rilla or AV Goodra who acts as a bootleg Archaludon. Rain is also strong vs HO and even Webs since Barra outspeeds them even with Webs up.

-I am less qualified to talk about Rain. So Delibird Heart, this one’s all your’s.

Small Ponds​

This is for the more niche offensive waters that managed to find a role among these contentious threats or have potential to find one.

View attachment 625865
Spewing Hot Water:
-Out of the rest of these, Volcanion finds the most success.

-It has had a back and forth period throughout SV OU, but lately Volcanion has found its footing as a trapper with defensive utility. Fire Spin + Taunt can take down walls like Glowking, Blissey, Clodsire, and Alomomola.

-Volcanion also fixes two difficult matchups for Balance, those being Primarina and Mola + Breaker builds.

-Not only does Volcanion block Flip Turn, but it also threatens to trap something on its team. Some Molas have responded to this with Mirror Coat, but using that often means losing out on Protect or other options.

-Vs Primarina, Volcanion is capable of avoiding a 2HKO from even a +1 Moonblast and 3HKOing back with Sludge Bomb.

-Volcanion also has other niches like helping teams pivot around Specs Kyurem and Wogre, or spreading Burns with Steam Eruption and Will O Wisp. making it valuable for checking Kingambit.

-Tera Ghost also helps with the Roar Zama matchup. This is relevant since Volcanion has been shown on more offensive builds due to its matchup with Balance/Stall and Primarina.

-Some exploration of Volcanion includes Taunt + Wisp and Endure Custap.

-Volcanion holds a role in SV OU not replicable by anything in the tier and may see even higher usage if its defensive value finds more focus.

View attachment 625871
Are Unicorn Horns Still Magical?:
-Keldeo has had a long history in OU, and is a blue print to the modern offensive water.

-Keldeo’s raw power made it arguably banworthy in BW while being a strong pick in ORAS.

-Afterwards, Keldeo started steeping downwards, unable to compete with the shiny Ash Greninja and Watershifu while being threatened by the likes of Tapu Koko, Dragapult, Tapu Fini, and Scarf Kartana. It also cannot break past Toxapex, one of the biggest defensive walls from Gen 7 to 8.

-In Gen 9 there was some interesting changes. The Tapus and UBs were cut, Toxapex was heavily nerfed, and Vacuum Wave gave Keldeo sudden access to priority.

-There are still multiple threats that could outspeed and/or one-shot Keldeo (Valiant, Primarina, Deoxys-Speed, Raging Bolt, Ogerpon-W), but Keldeo has found a place on a few teams.

-Keldeo’s Water/Fighting typing is valuable defensively. Being able to switch into Samu, Gambit, and pivot around Darkrai is quite valuable on a wallbreaker.

-Vacuum Wave also sees value in a fast-paced meta, picking off Darkrai, Weavile, and pre-Tera Gambit.

-Keldeo can deal some surprising damage to defensive teams. With Tera Fighting it can even 2HKO Offensive Primarina and also Clodsire with Specs Secret Sword. Specs Tera Water Hydro Pump can straight up 2HKO bulky Prima.

-These traits are nice, but I have found this thing hard to splash on a team (hehe get it). Prima is generally the better pick, and Keldeo’s better speed, priority, and matchup with Kingambit doesn’t come together as often compared to what Prima provides.

-For the Gambit matchup, I often gravitate towards H-Samu, but Keldeo does show what it can do if the stars align.

View attachment 625872
Blue Rabbit (Azumarill, not the ice cream brand):
-Azumarill was a semi-popular pick in Home as a bulky Fairy and Water resist which was rare before options like Clef and Prima. This was important as it was one of the few mons that resisted both of Bax’s STABs. (This didn’t matter much since +2 Icicle Crash still ruined this.)

-In DLC2 though, it doesn’t get to shine as often. Slow, Spikes weak, and outclassed by other offensive Waters, namely Wogre who also blocks Aqua Jet. What Azumarill can do is good, but not particularly unique from its competition.

-Azumarill wants to run max Speed Adamant or Jolly for Corviknight or Skeledirge which cuts on its solid bulk.

-It might find some wiggle room every now and then. Strong priority is nice, it has a better matchup into Volc than Wogre due to hitting it on the physical side with Aqua Jet, and it’s a decent answer to Stall teams running bulky Grasses as a response to Wogre since Adamant Tera Fairy Play Rough 2HKOs most Stall staples, including a small roll of 2HKOing a max physically defensive Amoonguss after rocks.

-If Stall and Balance teams run more extreme Wogre measures, we could see Azumarill take advantage of that.

View attachment 625873
Hurricane Katrina:
-Mimikyu Stardust brought Quaquaval up as an alright mon with good traits.

-Quaquaval is weird, not just cause of its design but cause it feels like a mon that on paper should be a staple mon. Decent stats followed by a good ability and great defensive typing. Amazing STAB options with Aqua Step/Wave Crash and CC/Low Kick, support options like Encore, Rapid Spin, U-Turn and reliable recovery. 2 great setup moves with Bulk Up and Swords Dance along with Taunt. Great coverage with Axel, Brave Bird, and Knock Off.

-It should be great all things considered, in fact during the very early days of SV OU it was OU via usage, so what happened?

-It faces competition with Wogre and Samu as physical water types. Quaquaval’s stats are solid, but not great. 85/80/75 bulk is closer to Darkrai’s who is considered frail than something on the bulkier side like Watershifu.

-It has great utiloty but can never fit all of them. As a spinner it beats Samu, but you need to run Axel to actually spin vs Gliscor since it tanks an Aqua Step and Toxics you back.

-Quaq also struggles with mons like Raging Bolt, Wogre, Pult, Prima, etc.

-Encore though is very nice, but again, this isn’t unique to Quaq. Both Wogre and Samu in fact, get access to it.

-I think what Quaq needs to do is find its own specific role it can fill. One that neither those two can perform. Basically, Quaq might need to incorporate an offensive spinner role.

Combating The Tides
​

View attachment 625874View attachment 625875View attachment 625876View attachment 625877View attachment 625878View attachment 625879View attachment 625880View attachment 625881View attachment 625882
Due to Wogre, Samu, and Prima’s dominating matchups vs bulkier teams, players have been starting to adapt.

-There has been a notable increase in bulky Grass resists like Amoonguss, Sinistcha, and even Wo-Chien on Stall/Balance.

-Corviknight is not bad into Wogre. Being able to avoid a 2HKO from unboosted Ivy after rocks, and being able to tank a +2 hit. Though Tera Water is likely one-shot this.

-Dragonite has a solid matchup into Wogre while also providing priority but needs to be careful with Samu and Prima.

-Rillaboom can threaten all three waters with Grassy Glide, but has to be wary of +2 Power Whip. Serperior is the closest to a hard counter.

-Bulky Serp can Glare Wogre and click Synthesis to heal itself up. It also outspeeds and threatens every other offensive Water.

-Grasspon is another mon that has solid matchups into these offensive waters but can’t directly switch into them. One great pairing is Mola + Grasspon since base Ogre can eat any hit from Wogre while it can Encore CM Prim.

-Raging Bolt can threaten all three with Thunderclap, but has to be wary of Prima’s Moonblast or Wogre’s Play Rough.

I think we will see more of these mons on bulkier teams, especially if Volc gets the Boot, and not the Heavy Duty-kind. Amoonguss also has some great matchups but also terrible ones like Gholdengo and Gliscor, but those can be covered by pairing it with a wallbreaker that exploits them like Samurott, Hoopa-U, Darkrai, etc. Sinistcha is criminally underrated for its ability to fix certain matchups, including walling Ursaluna which not even the Steel birds can consistently do. I said before that the tier needs viable sturdy Grass resists, and if these trends continue, that will end up being the case. Offensive Waters this gen are amazing due to their defensive niches being rewarded with raw uncontested power. Making use of the strengths of the Water typing that many others will before. First we had Starmie; then Keldeo, then Greninja, then Watershifu, and now Wogre/Prima/Samu.

I got another write-up coming, so stay tuned.

I'm not knowledgable enough yet to say something smart about this but this is really fun to read even with more intermediate game understanding, very cool and thanks for making this!

 

[Vaporwavvve]

Does anyone here have a good way to break out of a hard tilt? It feels like I don’t enjoy much of the game anymore. Teambuilding used to be fun but it’s so difficult now I just get angry.

 

[arnimacarni]

Does anyone here have a good way to break out of a hard tilt? It feels like I don’t enjoy much of the game anymore. Teambuilding used to be fun but it’s so difficult now I just get angry.

Build psyspam and delete your opponent with Polteageist

 

[Heatranator]

Does anyone here have a good way to break out of a hard tilt? It feels like I don’t enjoy much of the game anymore. Teambuilding used to be fun but it’s so difficult now I just get angry.

Try other tiers. Just pick a tier that you have a tiny bit of knowledge on and either just start building teams or learn a bit about them to start building. That's what I do when I feel I'm not enjoying the game.
Or if you want to stick to SV OU, try different playstyles. Maybe even something that you know will be bad so you don't tilt as much (I did this with electric terrain. It's more so you have fun.) Though you should prob make a new alt so your elo doesn't tank.

 

[Vaporwavvve]

Build psyspam and delete your opponent with Polteageist

This sounds like a way lose more and hate the game even more.

 

[658Greninja]

Does anyone here have a good way to break out of a hard tilt? It feels like I don’t enjoy much of the game anymore. Teambuilding used to be fun but it’s so difficult now I just get angry.

Take a break, then come back. You can also check out Pinkacross’ teambuilding videos if you’re looking to improve or look at some SPL replays to get some ideas and examine what the meta is like.

 

[Moyashi]

Take a break, then come back. You can also check out Pinkacross’ teambuilding videos if you’re looking to improve or look at some SPL replays to get some ideas and examine what the meta is like.

This. It's easy to underestimate just how tilting can affect playing ability (especially relevant when you're trying to get reqs for a suspect). Like rushing to make plays instead of being patient, not thinking ahead, etc.. Also yes to watching SPL replays. They're also just a treat to watch even beyond trying to get ideas and you get to see so interesting teams.

 

[Heatranator]

This. It's easy to underestimate just how tilting can affect playing ability (especially relevant when you're trying to get reqs for a suspect). Like rushing to make plays instead of being patient, not thinking ahead, etc.. Also yes to watching SPL replays. They're also just a treat to watch even beyond trying to get ideas and you get to see so interesting teams.

Remember when someone brought frosmoth to a game.
FUCKING FROSMOTH.
Like sure, it didn't win the game, but it got every ko. And there was a ditto on the opposing team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-750118?p2

 

[Anchor9]

I went 17-0 to start a req run. It’s been all downhill from there. 9-9 since. I don’t know if I can recover this run. Is it worth continuing?

 

[lucky333]

Take a break, then come back. You can also check out Pinkacross’ teambuilding videos if you’re looking to improve or look at some SPL replays to get some ideas and examine what the meta is like.

Can confirm. Took a huge break since the GF suspect. Thought that I was gonna get worse for sure but the mentality reset is really refreshing and causes my plays to be much more "clearer", if that makes sense. I highly recommend taking a break . Competitive Pokemon is very much a mentality game, if you have a poor mental, your plays will obviously suffer. Play other games, heck playing mons casually too is also refreshing, take a walk outside, hang out with your loved ones more. Maybe that will give you some new perspectives.

Also listen to Pinkacross advice, don't play showdown when you have a bad day. It can get so much worse if you do since....you know the nature of this game. Not to mention you will constatly blame the meta (I know I did) which just magnifies the cause of your mistakes tenfold.

Also here is a small tip for the lowladder players:

- learn about positioning
We have all been there. We think we have played great but behold that ONE stupid mon that reverse sweeps your entire team because you JUST had the wrong mon out at the wrong time. And then we tilt and it all goes downhill here. For example I have choice specs Walking Wake out. The sun is shining, the flowers are blooming while my opponent has an Ogrepon out. My WW outspeeds Oger in sun and OHKOs with Draco while he is immune to Hydro. Easy Draco, am I right? NO. Oger is dead but now comes in Kingambit. I am choice locked into Draco at -2 against Gambit. He sets up an SD. But I have a Gouging Fire, I wll be fine right? Nope, tera fire. Watch as your team now gets slaughtered by a +2 5fallen monster.

The right sequence would be to bring in Goug on Oger(since under sun, he can even take a +2 ivy) kill, oger and now that Goug is in, you have a mon that threatens Gambit. There are many such example of positionings.

You dont have to future sight ten turns ahead or sth but whenever you kill a mon, ask yourself what the opponent will bring in next and what it can do to your team. Sometimes you don't have to care but sometimes that one wrong kill will be your downfall.

Even though this meta has some problem, I have learned a lot througout playing gen9. The nature of tera FORCES you to make better midground plays and positioning yourself better. It is unforgiving and can be REALLY annoying but it forced me to learn this skill as a player(even though I still have much to learn.)

 

[Welcome to mars]

we will be on the suspect grind

I went 17-0 to start a req run. It’s been all downhill from there. 9-9 since. I don’t know if I can recover this run. Is it worth continuing?

Do it for him, just trust me

 

[Conflux123]

How to beat Garganacl:

weird sets to break down the rest of its team if you have a bad MU hide your sets!

if you have a good MU just spam it down and use encore/taunt to prevent healing and/or setup.

I’ve been using Garg whilst testing out our previous discussion about the power imbalance of OU on a custom designed team provided courtesy of Heatranator

replay for entertainment value, the opponent breaks down a Garg:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2100639478-oy2yojsjndlicfcj4pnx9rfbnneo9b4pw

although the real reason he won is due to surprise value and the ease of which strong or mediocre volt switch shreds this team. This is a standard example of how this matchup is 75% in Garg favour if both opponents know each others teams.

Garg is S tier in some matchups, and C tier at best in others. Very few matchups are in between.

Heatranator I have tried to make minimal changes to your team, mostly focusing on optimising the Garg and samurott to preserve their value in matchups they’re supposed to win. I don’t think this is providing the fact that there isn’t a strong power imbalance in OU because Valiant was the “top tier” pick, but Garg skews between the extremes of top tier and shit, whilst samurott should be considered in the top tier due to sheer matchup value against almost every team.

samurott might be B grade on paper but it’s S grade in matchup value and purpose

reporting back on the team, it’s about 75% win rate when I can predict most sets on the opponent team and garganacl has the MU advantage. Otherwise it’s fluctuating a lot more in other matches, and likely below the 33% WR cutoff if you discount those one sided Garg matchups. Gets roasted by any well played long neck and I didn’t want to change Tera types.

I feel like garg's matchup fluctuates a bit. Against certain matchups it can feel unbeatable, getting free progress with rocks and salt cure while walling half of your opponent's team. On the other hand it can get a bad matchup and not put in much work. It's a bit like defensive volc lol. But anyway, I don't think garg is even close to broken because when you rely on getting a good matchup, but are insane in that good matchup, I don't think it's that broken as long as that matchup isn't too common. (It's not that hard to check garg.)

 

[arnimacarni]

This sounds like a way lose more and hate the game even more.

Probably, but oh the serotonin of clicking Stored Power

 

[Vaporwavvve]

Take a break, then come back. You can also check out Pinkacross’ teambuilding videos if you’re looking to improve or look at some SPL replays to get some ideas and examine what the meta is like.

yeah I’ve been following his videos but itjust feels like there are too many good pokemon. I will stop one thing and lose immediately to another. This whole gen is rock-paper-scissors.

 

[ninth]

I'm out of SPL replays to watch so I thought I would look at some of the emerging meta trends from the latest rounds of Smogon Tour 36. For those of you unfamiliar, Smogon Tour is one of the most popular tournaments on the site, consisting of a series of live tournaments taking place every weekend. Every week, we rotate between the three most recent generations of OU, in this case SV, SWSH, and SM. The top 16 performers from these live tournaments are sorted into a playoffs bracket. For the combined skillset of cross-generational talent and performing in live and scheduled environments alike, Smogon Tour is widely considered one of the more challenging and prestigious individual trophies to win.
The replays are linked in the day — I'm a fraud and wrote these on Notepad++ so I don't have hyperlinks for every game lol

Week 1
The immediate thing that jumped out to me on day 1 was the presence of one or more Primarina in every game of semis and finals. Its most common partners included Landorus-T, with whom it has a great defensive synergy thanks to Intimidate + AV/Calm Mind, and Kingambit, whose physical Dark-type damage breaks most things that Moonblast and Surf can't.
This day skewed pretty offensive in general. Finals had some rather fun takes on hyper offense: Mimikyu Stardust brought the same damn team in both of his finals-1 matches, featuring AV Modest Iron Crown and Band Dragapult. Vert brought sun against Ahsan-219 (the only instance of weather in semis/finals) and his first round against Mimikyu Stardust featured Latios.
The bracket reset saw Mimikyu Stardust bring the exact same team against Ahsan-219 again, whose Boots + Neutralizing Gas Weezing-Galar essentially just lost a 1v1 to Landorus-T and then was promptly cleaned up by Primarina. Mimikyu Stardust's match against Vert was notable: finally fed up of him bringing the same team over and over, Vert brought in the very defensive classic core of Rotom-Wash/Skeledirge/Ting-Lu, joined by Tinkaton's rocks, Deoxys-Speed's speed control, and Ogerpon-Teal who only revealed Superpower but was probably Boots U-Turn Encore etc. This probably would have been a tough matchup for Band Dragapult so Mimikyu Stardust was wise in finally picking a different team, a very Boots-heavy squad that dodged a Will-O-Wisp for the win.

Day 2 took a hard turn: while roxie brought a Tera Fairy (looked like Assault Vest) Slither Wing sun team to success against SoulWind, and Welli0u's sand missed every Stone Edge against ChrisPBacon's Glowking, the rest of the semifinal and final matches ranged from bulkier offense to straight-up stall. In semifinals, stareal's Amoonguss stall very slowly died to Zokuru's Encore Ogerpon + Grass Heatran + SD Gliscor.
Finals featured a Wo-Chien bulky offense from Zokuru, with NP Gholdengo and SD Gliscor as the breakers: it met a wall in the face of a robust balance from ChrisPBacon, whose Gliscor was practically unkillable and whose Glares from Serperior halted all momentum. In the other match, roxie brought Vileplume stall, which is pretty neat but was ultimately crucified by ChrisPBacon's Ghost Fire Spin Volcanion (a classic anti-stall tech) and Psyshock Glowking.

Day 3 generally leaned towards hard offense at the top. The semifinals match between velvet and Shoot featured an amusing Deoxys vs Deoxys lead in which one had Extreme Speed and neither had hazards, with Shoot wielding Tera Fire SD Rillaboom and +Speed Iron Crown to victory. weird mon used Thunder Wave Darkrai and Wisp Dragapult to spread strife and Hexes across Lime's team setting up a classic Extreme Speed Dragonite sweep.
In the finals, Sylveon used calm mind employed their traditional German six for the thousandth time: this structure is coming up on its first birthday and it's kind of refreshing to see it still works. Shoot's Tera Blast Ground Iron Moth tore a hole in the defensive core, though, leading to a cleanup from their Rillaboom. The other finals match featured weird mon's status+Hex spam team again, this time against Shoot's webs — after losing Great Tusk to a crit Ivy Cudgel, weird mon was unable to get the webs off for the rest of the game. Their own Ogerpon-Teal pulled off some heroics but it ultimately wasn't enough to overcome the three physical mons Shoot had in the back.


Week 2

Day 1 saw s7a bring his RMT darkspam HO to every game, a classic archetype of violent force. Here their Roaring Moon was able to knock damn near everyone on Analytic's core, parlaying well into a Zamazenta sweep. On the other side of the bracket, Raptor's Gliscor + Garganacl + Amoonguss BO faced Vert's Psychic Terrain, which is not something I thought I would see much of after Samurott-Hisui dropped but I'm all for it. As soon as terrain went up, Vert's Hawlucha was able to rip a hole in Gliscor, leading to a +Speed Fighting Iron Crown managing to outduel Garganacl and a clean Roaring Moon cleanup. Remember the Gliscor + Garg core, though, it'll come in handy later.
Finals featured s7a's darkspam again, but Vert brought a neat bulky offense featuring Moltres + Tinkaton + Ting-Lu, with two dragons and a Darkrai providing the damage. The Tinkaton died instantly to Roaring Moon but at least it got some valuable chip. Ultimately, Vert's +SpA Raging Bolt put up crazy numbers thanks to its good bulk and s7a's lack of Thunderbolt immunities.

Day 2 featured a lot of weather but somehow no weather vs weather matchups. Ahsan-219 ran what looks like Ninetales-Alola veil but it unfortunately died to yovan33321's Kingambit before setting up; meanwhile Eeveeto loaded a sun with *two* sun setters in Healing Wish Ninetales and Torkoal, both of which died early on and led to a Wellspring cleanup from Jytcampbell.
However, the day was won by Empo's offensive six of Zapdos/Gambit/Lando/Cinderace/Kyurem/Dragapult, which he brought to semis and both finals games. Never-Melt Ice Kyurem is a fun Specs bluff, and it looks like Specs Dragapult which is relaxing to see again. After dispatching fade's Garganacl + Cresselia + Tusk defenses with Kingambit and Low Kick Cinderace, his first finals game faced down Jytcampbell's Alomomola sand. Jytcampbell's Ice Beam Tyranitar takes out Landorus immediately, but Empo's able to bring Glowking and Alomomola to critical health, arresting Jyt's momentum. After a truly spectacular 1v1 between Zapdos and Excadrill, Empo's Dragapult is able to eliminate Skarmory, setting up for Ghost Kingambit to clean house without being Whirlwinded out.
In the final game against yovan33321, it ran into what's rapidly becoming a classic archetype of Prima + Lando + violent physical attackers, usually 2+ dark types. After a great sequence of turns in which 4 attacks are clicked but none of them do any damage, Empo's Kyurem reveals itself to be DD + *all* special moves — another positively whimsical bluff, he's just full of surprises today — Specs Dragapult's able to clean house after earlier forcing Tera out of Primarina.

Day 3 was defined by the Gliscor + Garganacl core, present in every semifinals and finals game. Lily's semifinals team complemented G+G with Iron Valiant and Deoxys-Speed as speed control and cleanup, Amoonguss providing support and Gholdengo being a bulkier wincon. She faced Zokuru's hard stall and was able to neutralize Calm Mind Clefable with Toxic + Worry Seed Amoonguss, and used Knock Off Iron Valiant *and* Deoxys-Speed to eliminate almost all of Zokuru's boots and draw out a turn 49 forfeit. On the other side of the bracket, z0mOG used practically the same team but with Kingambit over Gholdengo, facing georgiethefirst's Grassy Terrain + Sand + Goodra-Hisui squad. georgiethefirst's Covert Cloak Gholdengo turns z0mOG's Water Garganacl into a setup risk and clears out Gliscor and Gambit early on, before revealing Acid Spray Covert Cloak Goodra-Hisui to super ruin Garg's day. This team has a lot of crazy techs: Excadrill is High Horsepower to not be affected by Grassy Terrain and Tyranitar was banded but we never saw it click a move.
Finals saw Lily bring G+G again, this time accompanied by Corviknight + Clefable + Zamazenta + Kingambit. On the other side, georgiethefirst brought, uh, DragMag? Magnezone, Hatterene, and Mamoswine paving the path for a triple threat core of Dragapult + Dragonite + Haxorus. georgiethefirst's Hatterene loses its cloak early on, and while it's still able to beat Garganacl, Lily's robust defenses, Haxorus missing KOs, and georgiethefirst's relative lack of boots on anything ends up enabling a Zamazenta cleanup in the end.

 

[BobbyHill]

Below is a replay of why I think Kyurem is broken. with proper support it can break through every check in switch in people talk about here especially after tera. It feels like there’s nothing you can do but let your team get chipped down. this is also why I get so frustrated with people saying balance has a fair chance this gen.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2107821999-7p43mwyqg5tb8t9prkh57tr9y3r13yqpw

 

[BobbyHill]

This sounds like a way lose more and hate the game even more.

Yeah I’m thinking about quitting. The recent meta has made me really only enjoy winning and nothing else. Very low chance anything gets banned. It may not even be that anything needs to get banned. Just going to be a lot of “oops I didn’t know that Tera, I lost” or “Forgot this niche set up pokemon, game over on preview”. It feels like the meta is built for people who were already good last gen. With all the variability, it’s very hard to find repeatable playing or team building strategies to improve with.

 

[RS25802580]

Below is a replay of why I think Kyurem is broken. with proper support it can break through every check in switch in people talk about here especially after tera. It feels like there’s nothing you can do but let your team get chipped down. this is also why I get so frustrated with people saying balance has a fair chance this gen.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2107821999-7p43mwyqg5tb8t9prkh57tr9y3r13yqpw

Two thoughts.

You need to run AV Glowking to check Kyurem. Boots Glowking just doesn’t have the bulk. Kyurem feasts on passive boots + hstack stack balance teams, which are largely falling out of favor.

Speaking of passivity. Your opponent had no dark type so you should have been spamming future sight from the get go. You played the early and midgame very passively, which led to easy opportunities for the opposing kyurem to come in and wallbreak.