Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[BobbyHill]

Nah, I’m almost never finding Roaring Moon getting more than 1 KO + Tera trade with balance. It’s really easy to force chip on it with RH, Ruination, Facade Glisc or Spinner Tusk, Sticky Barb Clef (which ruins it entirely), etc. and that’s not to mention priority excelling into it from there, which multiple possible users of fit onto balance.

Imo Taunt Moon is best into dedicated fat teams as if can assure a 1v1 or chipped Dozo, Skarm, Corv, etc., which means it can get another KO or open the door wide for a teammate. More protective builds don’t allow this even if they use those pokemon.

I mean optimal plays are optimal plays. Detecting sets or sequences is part of the game. Tiering is determined by the council or people who get reqs for a reason. Not being able to make inferences or take calculated risks isn’t really a fault of the tier. I do not at all intend to say “skill issue”, but this isn’t a large issue in my personal opinion.

Yeah maybe I’m misplaying it. I often find a standard sequence is that it will come in on Glowking, get one DD off on the switch and then it can 2HKO most defensive mons with knock or acro. I’ll try out your strats but I will say I think sticky barb clef is overrated because it often requires a sacrificing it to pass it to roaring moon.

And no offense taken to the “skill issue” part. It is what it is. I understand there are optimal ways to play and trust your opinion. I just notice that it really wreaks havoc mid ladder and while reqs exist for a (very good) reason. I do think a lot of that player base is very dismissive of a lot of struggles a newer player has.

 

[658Greninja]

Right now I think if you run into Kyurem with a balance sample team you have to hope that you guess the set right or you‘re screwed.

Kyurem is pretty simple to read. Specs will often have strong hazard control from Tusk + Cinderace. DD variants are only really seen on HO or Veil. Boots is a common set you’ll see on Boots Spam and in general since imo it’s the best set rn. Personally Balance doesn’t have to run Glowking even though it’s fantastic for its role compression. There are other ways of dealing with Kyurem minus Glowking for Balance. Specs Kyu has an issue of being worn down by rocks and losing to Balance teams with Gliscor + Ice resist. With some good pivoting, Gambit, Ghold, and Dirge can check Boots Kyu. SpD Garg can avoid a 2HKO from Boots while being able to Tera Fairy against Tera Ground variants. An underrated check is SpD Clef who avoids a 3HKO from Boots Ice Beam and threatens with Knock or Moonblast. Even Specs Ice Beam fails to 2HKO. SpD Corv is also an option that helps with the Darkrai matchup. Weavile can pivot into Ice Beam but has to watch out for Draco or Scale Shot.

 

[Finchinator]

Yeah maybe I’m misplaying it. I often find a standard sequence is that it will come in on Glowking, get one DD off on the switch and then it can 2HKO most defensive mons with knock or acro. I’ll try out your strats but I will say I think sticky barb clef is overrated because it often requires a sacrificing it to pass it to roaring moon.

You can often bait a resisted Knock Off or BB/EQ to screw it altogether and Acro only kills if it if it’s +2 and Tera’d, so I’d argue that Clef is a lot better than you give it credit there.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Kyurem is pretty simple to read. Specs will often have strong hazard control from Tusk + Cinderace. DD variants are only really seen on HO or Veil. Boots is a common set you’ll see on Boots Spam and in general since imo it’s the best set rn. Personally Balance doesn’t have to run Glowking even though it’s fantastic for its role compression. There are other ways of dealing with Kyurem minus Glowking for Balance. Specs Kyu has an issue of being worn down by rocks and losing to Balance teams with Gliscor + Ice resist. With some good pivoting, Gambit, Ghold, and Dirge can check Boots Kyu. SpD Garg can avoid a 2HKO from Boots while being able to Tera Fairy against Tera Ground variants. An underrated check is SpD Clef who avoids a 3HKO from Boots Ice Beam and threatens with Knock or Moonblast. Even Specs Ice Beam fails to 2HKO. SpD Corv is also an option that helps with the Darkrai matchup. Weavile can pivot into Ice Beam but has to watch out for Draco or Scale Shot.

this is why i start my baits in teambuilder by building poorly. no one can guess what kyurem set i am because my team synergizes with none of them

 

[BobbyHill]

Kyurem is pretty simple to read. Specs will often have strong hazard control from Tusk + Cinderace. DD variants are only really seen on HO or Veil. Boots is a common set you’ll see on Boots Spam and in general since imo it’s the best set rn. Personally Balance doesn’t have to run Glowking even though it’s fantastic for its role compression. There are other ways of dealing with Kyurem minus Glowking for Balance. Specs Kyu has an issue of being worn down by rocks and losing to Balance teams with Gliscor + Ice resist. With some good pivoting, Gambit, Ghold, and Dirge can check Boots Kyu. SpD Garg can avoid a 2HKO from Boots while being able to Tera Fairy against Tera Ground variants. An underrated check is SpD Clef who avoids a 3HKO from Boots Ice Beam and threatens with Knock or Moonblast. Even Specs Ice Beam fails to 2HKO. SpD Corv is also an option that helps with the Darkrai matchup. Weavile can pivot into Ice Beam but has to watch out for Draco or Scale Shot.

thanks I will try these. Usually my biggest issue is an early game specs tera ice beam. It feels like it just rips through everything.

 

[GummyRowlets]

Kyurem is pretty simple to read. Specs will often have strong hazard control from Tusk + Cinderace. DD variants are only really seen on HO or Veil. Boots is a common set you’ll see on Boots Spam and in general since imo it’s the best set rn. Personally Balance doesn’t have to run Glowking even though it’s fantastic for its role compression. There are other ways of dealing with Kyurem minus Glowking for Balance. Specs Kyu has an issue of being worn down by rocks and losing to Balance teams with Gliscor + Ice resist. With some good pivoting, Gambit, Ghold, and Dirge can check Boots Kyu. SpD Garg can avoid a 2HKO from Boots while being able to Tera Fairy against Tera Ground variants. An underrated check is SpD Clef who avoids a 3HKO from Boots Ice Beam and threatens with Knock or Moonblast. Even Specs Ice Beam fails to 2HKO. SpD Corv is also an option that helps with the Darkrai matchup. Weavile can pivot into Ice Beam but has to watch out for Draco or Scale Shot.

Me in the face of resist: 252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Blizzard (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 206-243 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery :D

 

[GummyRowlets]

thanks, I will try these. Usually, my biggest issue is an early game specs tera ice beam. It feels like it just rips through everything.

Honestly, whenever I see Kyurem or Ogerpon on a team, I will lead a Pokemon that just matches up great with them immediately without thinking, like Pult. Even if that lead is horrendous to the rest of the team, just making sure you can pressure the balance breakers right away will let you keep momentum on your side and stop them from tearing away at your balance team.

 

[Morkal]

Hey everyone! I'm sorry I haven't been able to play much due to my schedule, but I wanted to share a set I've been having a lot of fun with really quickly.

Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Luster Purge/Psychic Noise
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

​

A great, fast cleaner mon with the ability to compress handling Kingambit, Oger-Wellspring, and many Volcarona variants in a single slot thanks to its stellar movepool. If you want power with a 50% SpDef drop chance run Luster Purge, if you want utility and the ability to block Pokemon like Volcarona from healing, run Psychic Noise. Aura Sphere for Kingambit and other Dark-types, Draco Meteor for nuclear power, and Tera Blast for cleaning through Volc and Oger-Well.

 

[GummyRowlets]

Hey everyone! I'm sorry I haven't been able to play much due to my schedule, but I wanted to share a set I've been having a lot of fun with really quickly.

View attachment 625579
Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Luster Purge/Psychic Noise
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

​

A great, fast cleaner mon with the ability to compress handling Kingambit, Oger-Wellspring, and many Volcarona variants in a single slot thanks to its stellar movepool. If you want power with a 50% SpDef drop chance run Luster Purge, if you want utility and the ability to block Pokemon like Volcarona from healing, run Psychic Noise. Aura Sphere for Kingambit and other Dark-types, Draco Meteor for nuclear power, and Tera Blast for cleaning through Volc and Oger-Well.

What type of team style have you been using it on? It seems very interesting set since it's not the common choice or set up variant with calm mind varient. I've only ever usec specs Latios

 

[Magcargo]

Hey everyone! I'm sorry I haven't been able to play much due to my schedule, but I wanted to share a set I've been having a lot of fun with really quickly.

View attachment 625579
Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Luster Purge/Psychic Noise
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

​

A great, fast cleaner mon with the ability to compress handling Kingambit, Oger-Wellspring, and many Volcarona variants in a single slot thanks to its stellar movepool. If you want power with a 50% SpDef drop chance run Luster Purge, if you want utility and the ability to block Pokemon liG Volcarona from healing, run Psychic Noise. Aura Sphere for Kingambit and other Dark-types, Draco Meteor for nuclear power, and Tera Blast for cleaning through Volc and Oger-Well.

Been using Tera Steel CM Latios and despite some shortcomings, I've been liking it quite a bit. Tera Steel levitators are extremely good defensively, esp vs mons like Kyurem, most Great Tusk, and Gliscor. Psychic Noise is a solid disruption tool for most recovery attempts & it can deal decent damage with Soul Dew Draco.

Main issue with it is that its base typing is a bit limited, since it has a lot of overlapping weaknesses with other top tiers like Gholdengo, Great Tusk, Dragapult, and Gking that you'd want to run it with. Losing to faster mons like Roaring Moon, Dragapult, Darkrai, and Weavile, as well as Kingambit also just isn't fun.

 

[Heatranator]

Hey everyone! I'm sorry I haven't been able to play much due to my schedule, but I wanted to share a set I've been having a lot of fun with really quickly.

View attachment 625579
Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Luster Purge/Psychic Noise
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haban Berry Latios: 289-342 (96 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

​

A great, fast cleaner mon with the ability to compress handling Kingambit, Oger-Wellspring, and many Volcarona variants in a single slot thanks to its stellar movepool. If you want power with a 50% SpDef drop chance run Luster Purge, if you want utility and the ability to block Pokemon like Volcarona from healing, run Psychic Noise. Aura Sphere for Kingambit and other Dark-types, Draco Meteor for nuclear power, and Tera Blast for cleaning through Volc and Oger-Well.

Nice set. I do think that you should go haban berry since besides gambit, roaring moon and weavile (who all outspeed you, gambit sucker punch can ko you at 5 supreme overlord boosts), none of the dark types are being threatened too much. Hamurott is the only one that is outsped and threatened by it, meaning the colbur berry is usless a lot more of the time, though if it is working for you then ignore my rambling. This means that you can counter other dragon types in the tier by taking a dragon hit and threatening them back with draco.
Some calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haban Berry Latios: 244-288 (81 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haban Berry Latios: 292-345 (97 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (this one needs more bulk, you can do a calm+60 hp evs, but that might be too much).
252 SpA Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haban Berry Latios: 195-231 (64.7 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haban Berry Latios: 190-225 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haban Berry Latios: 186-219 (61.7 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haban Berry Latios: 243-286 (80.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But if it works for you, then you should keep the colbur berry.

 

[Bold School]

Hey everyone! I'm sorry I haven't been able to play much due to my schedule, but I wanted to share a set I've been having a lot of fun with really quickly.

View attachment 625579
Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Luster Purge/Psychic Noise
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

​

A great, fast cleaner mon with the ability to compress handling Kingambit, Oger-Wellspring, and many Volcarona variants in a single slot thanks to its stellar movepool. If you want power with a 50% SpDef drop chance run Luster Purge, if you want utility and the ability to block Pokemon like Volcarona from healing, run Psychic Noise. Aura Sphere for Kingambit and other Dark-types, Draco Meteor for nuclear power, and Tera Blast for cleaning through Volc and Oger-Well.

I gotta say running Tera Flying on a Levitate mon just feels wrong to me. I'm not saying you are wrong to use it per say, but your reasoning just doesn't resonate with me. Tera Fly only hits Waterpon before Tera. If it Tera's into Water with a +1 Sp. Def. boost, it's no longer the move that hits both. Volc also likes to Tera a lot. Would you be better off running a different Tera, a coverage move instead of Tera Blast, and/or even maybe Psyshock to outright bypass Sp. Def. boosts from Volcarona and Wellspring if they are that much of an issue?

 

[Fleance]

Hey everyone! I'm sorry I haven't been able to play much due to my schedule, but I wanted to share a set I've been having a lot of fun with really quickly.

View attachment 625579
Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Luster Purge/Psychic Noise
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

​

A great, fast cleaner mon with the ability to compress handling Kingambit, Oger-Wellspring, and many Volcarona variants in a single slot thanks to its stellar movepool. If you want power with a 50% SpDef drop chance run Luster Purge, if you want utility and the ability to block Pokemon like Volcarona from healing, run Psychic Noise. Aura Sphere for Kingambit and other Dark-types, Draco Meteor for nuclear power, and Tera Blast for cleaning through Volc and Oger-Well.

idt the set does what its meant to do. Tera blast flying doesnt ohko bulkless or bulky volc, even at +0, and they would likely be at +1 anyway if you're switching in. They can also outboost the damage you do with tera fly, cuz if you switch in on a volc, they can get to +2 before you hit them with a tera fly, which does 40, and then you take 80 from a fiery dance as you don't resist anymore. Not to mention if they tera they take nothing, boost, sweep you, and put you on a highlight reel. You should probably just put psyshock over luster purge as it does real damage to volc, regardless of tera type. Yeah and this set doesnt beat black glasses gambit, it dies to 3+ fallen sucker punch if its taken any chip, or dies to a 5 fallen gambit after rocks, so you would have to play the entire game without latios, and keep rocks off, because if it gets chipped it dies. Even non glasses gambit does 70-80 with 5 fallen, so chip is still relevant.

you can put tera fighting to you to surprise kill gambit as long as he hasn't sword danced, or terad, and put psyshock to do damage to volc, but then the set isn't funny so boring.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Hey everyone! I'm sorry I haven't been able to play much due to my schedule, but I wanted to share a set I've been having a lot of fun with really quickly.

View attachment 625579
Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Luster Purge/Psychic Noise
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

​

A great, fast cleaner mon with the ability to compress handling Kingambit, Oger-Wellspring, and many Volcarona variants in a single slot thanks to its stellar movepool. If you want power with a 50% SpDef drop chance run Luster Purge, if you want utility and the ability to block Pokemon like Volcarona from healing, run Psychic Noise. Aura Sphere for Kingambit and other Dark-types, Draco Meteor for nuclear power, and Tera Blast for cleaning through Volc and Oger-Well.

"In Gen 9, Latios can learn Air Slash from:

• anywhere (move is level-up/tutor/TM/HM/egg in Gen 9)"

 

[cromatkastar]

Making multiple accounts is against forum rules and we check whoever gets reqs pretty thoroughly, so even if people use VPNs, a lot of 1 post accounts would be a major flag and we can ask PS folk to alt check -- using VPNs on PS is illegal, too, so one way or another we have caught the few cases of this.

okay but there's no rule against a "no ban gang" clan right? if a bunch of facebook antibanners who are truly skilled trainers that want to win with their favorites all banded together every suspect test to make sure no bans go through, that would be okay?

 

[JunkoAJ]

okay but there's no rule against a "no ban gang" clan right? if a bunch of facebook antibanners who are truly skilled trainers that want to win with their favorites all banded together every suspect test to make sure no bans go through, that would be okay?

I don't think so, this was what happened in Natdex with Tera, some prominent community members (allegedly) rallied and got some of their fans/communities to get reqs and vote DNB.

 

[Bunger Royale]

okay but there's no rule against a "no ban gang" clan right? if a bunch of facebook antibanners who are truly skilled trainers that want to win with their favorites all banded together every suspect test to make sure no bans go through, that would be okay?

If a bunch of skilled trainers want to vote no ban, that's just the suspect process working as intended.

I don't think so, this was what happened in Natdex with Tera, some prominent community members (allegedly) rallied and got some of their fans/communities to get reqs and vote DNB.

I remember there was a lot of accusations that this happened, but I don't remember seeing any evidence. It was just a lot of salty conspiracy theories.

 

[ShieldPhoenix]

Is tera bug + jaw lock roaring moon still a viable set? Haven't seen it after HOME

 

[Heatranator]

Is tera bug + jaw lock roaring moon still a viable set? Haven't seen it after HOME

No. Jaw lock moon in general is not good, you trap yourself against your counter such as the metal birds and you are giving up on knock off, which is 100% superior. Tera bug is a cool idea, but again, knock off is much better. You simply don't have the defenses to pull it off.

 

[pika pal]

idt the set does what its meant to do. Tera blast flying doesnt ohko bulkless or bulky volc, even at +0, and they would likely be at +1 anyway if you're switching in. They can also outboost the damage you do with tera fly, cuz if you switch in on a volc, they can get to +2 before you hit them with a tera fly, which does 40, and then you take 80 from a fiery dance as you don't resist anymore. Not to mention if they tera they take nothing, boost, sweep you, and put you on a highlight reel. You should probably just put psyshock over luster purge as it does real damage to volc, regardless of tera type. Yeah and this set doesnt beat black glasses gambit, it dies to 3+ fallen sucker punch if its taken any chip, or dies to a 5 fallen gambit after rocks, so you would have to play the entire game without latios, and keep rocks off, because if it gets chipped it dies. Even non glasses gambit does 70-80 with 5 fallen, so chip is still relevant.

you can put tera fighting to you to surprise kill gambit as long as he hasn't sword danced, or terad, and put psyshock to do damage to volc, but then the set isn't funny so boring.

No input on Gambit but I would be curious about the Volcarona interaction. I'd think if anything Latios would be in first and the idea is to bait Volc thinking it can use it to grab a QD? Non-Boosting Item Latios can't 2HKO Bulky Volc with Draco (since it's faster before QD and thus gets 2 shots), so it could eat 2, QD, and then kill back with a SE Tera Blast or recover with Morning Sun to net-gain health for another boost?

That said I'm not sure the Tera Flying is very necessary to the match-up since Bulky Volc is at reasonable risk of a KO (absolute min rolls only need 6% chip to guarantee) from Luster Purge -> Draco even if Purge doesn't score a drop, and given how spammable that drop makes the move, I think you'd mainly be focusing lure sets on dealing with things that can switch into it safely. Back to Kingambit, Tera Fighting (with a different item) would probably fare better to resist Gambit's Sucker Punch, buff Aura Sphere Coverage for Steels/Darks in general, and reduce reliance on Tera for coverage to use the last slot on something different/spicier like Flip Turn, Memento, Recover, Substitute, Calm Mind, or Psyshock as noted.

Honestly surprised no good users/lures with Memento have popped up this Gen, given how impactful a -2 Offense turn could be for a win-condition to set up (and how many "I just need that turn" Set-up users we have) or just creating very exploitable turns/switches forced.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

What are your thoughts on the Stellar Tera Typing? I think it got brushed off really early in its release and didn't see much exploration. It's like having multiple Gems on a single mon!

 

[GummyRowlets]

What are your thoughts on the Stellar Tera Typing? I think it got brushed off really early in its release and didn't see much exploration. It's like having multiple Gems on a single mon!

Stelluar tera is interesting, I do like how it benefits mixed like Valint, who may want stab on all of its moves for some scenario where it just needs the 1.2x boost. The problem with Stellar typing is that it's just not flexible. Every Pokemon would rather tera to their own typing for the 1.5x instead of a one-time like wake or Weavilve. While other Pokemon like Garg or dirge always want a defensive tera. I don't think the applications of stellar tera are nearly expansive enough to take up a whole tera more useful tera on a pokemon. Also, I don't think it is unexplored, it's just bad overall and doesn't have many applications.

 

[EpicGuy321]

>Not Supreme Overlord
You had one job with this joke.

What do people consider the most Splashable Pokemon, both in general and on certain team styles? The former is probably Great Tusk, but I'm curious if, say, Balance Players have a Pokemon they consider absolutely vital to run or otherwise extremely difficult to go without. Sort of the inverse relationship of "Blissey needs Stall Teams", in that "[Team Style] really wants/needs [Pokemon]"

Kingambit fits on every playst

It doesn't get swords dance. Idk if this a hypothetical if it did get swords dance, but it doesn't.
But gods, do I wish it did. I doesn't even get something like work up, only nasty plot (and I will not use nasty plot meow).

Meowscarada gets Hone Claws. +1 attack AND guaranteed 3 hits on a strong taxel.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

What are your thoughts on the Stellar Tera Typing? I think it got brushed off really early in its release and didn't see much exploration. It's like having multiple Gems on a single mon!

hideously underexplored but only marginally underrated. it's not as high of a power boost as gems—it's a one-time 20% boost for non-stab types and a one-time adaptability/regular-tera boost for stab types—so the opportunity costs of running it tend to be higher than the reward. it also doesn't change your defensive matchups at all, so it's cutting a huge part of the usefulness of tera out of the equation. stellar tera blast is effectively worthless outside of contrary, even with its "but you can hit other tera'd mons supereffectively with it!" gimmick. in practice, its only real advantages over regular tera are on contrary mons and late-game 4-attacks cleaners that like the one-time boost on each move better than a single spammable move. that said, i've seen (and run) a couple tera stellar mons outside of the obvious enamorus and serperior that have seen moderate success. the most notable ones i've encountered were an all-out-attacker mixed deo-s and a really nasty hisuian lilligant sun-sweeper set. even then, i think the only real applications for it are niche at best, but i'm very eager for someone to prove me wrong about that

 

[Soiramio3000]

One thing that I miss from when the generation was brand new was that swallot was not completely unusable in OU.

There were several draining moves around at that time, so its ability liquid ooze allowed some nice shenaningans.
Give it tera normal and you have got an answer to anihilape.

Now it is useless.