Starmie (OU) revamp

Bughouse

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reserved for updated analysis (not doing a skelly first) once one or two more people weigh in.

see posts from this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-premier-league-adv-ou-discussion.3561041/#post-7301273

Goal will be to rewrite ADV Starmie Offensive set and reorganize dex entry in general so that offensive set is first, and overview speaks more favorably of it, etc.

I will not formally ask for QC here, since consensus will emerge in the RoA thread linked above. Will send to GP when done.

old analysis:
[OVERVIEW]
Starmie is easily one of the best Rapid Spin users in OU, if not the
best. The blue star is able to easily switch into all of the Spikes
users in OU—with the exception of specially defensive Hidden Power Bug
Forretress—threaten them out, and spin away Spikes. Additionally,
Starmie is one of the fastest Pokemon in OU; its illustrious Speed stat
allows it to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Salamence, a boosted neutral
natured Tyranitar, and other speedy threats in OU, while threatening to
OHKO or severely dent all of them with its incredible offensive
movepool. Starmie's secondary Psychic typing surprisingly helps it a
great deal. It can switch into Celebi that lack Giga Drain or Hidden
Power Grass, Rapid Spin away Spikes and potentially Leech Seed, and
switch out before Celebi gets too many Calm Mind boosts. Similarly,
Starmie can switch into Calm Mind Jirachi lacking Thunderbolt or Hidden
Power Grass and support its team with Rapid Spin.

Unfortunately, Starmie is not without fault. Its Special Attack stat is
not high enough to defeat some of the most common walls in ADV, such as
Celebi, Zapdos, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax, with any set.
Additionally, all of the aforementioned Pokemon can defeat Starmie with
relative ease; Celebi and Blissey can set up Calm Minds, Zapdos and
Regice can use Thunderbolt, and Snorlax can use Curse without fear. To
make matters worse, Starmie is the only Psychic-type in OU that lacks
Calm Mind (bar Claydol). These faults force Starmie to play a more
defensive role in ADV OU, despite its incredible offensive movepool.
Finally, Starmie's typing gives it weaknesses to many common attacks in
OU such as Hidden Power Bug, Thunderbolt, Megahorn, and other common
moves, thus diminishing some of its defensive prowess. Although Starmie
has a number of important weaknesses, it'd be foolish not to consider it
if your team is in need of Rapid Spin support or a versatile and sturdy
sweeper.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Recover
move 3: Surf
move 4: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Starmie can function as an incredible Rapid Spin user with the given
set. Starmie is the only Rapid Spin user in OU with access to Recover
and the potential to beat every single Spikes user in the metagame.
Other than getting rid of entry hazards, Rapid Spin is also useful for
getting rid of Celebi's Leech Seed, thus giving Starmie another easy
switch in to take advantage of and use Rapid Spin. Recover is another
very important move for Starmie. With Recover, the blue star can
repeatedly switch into and Rapid Spin on Metagross, Snorlax, and other
prominent physical attackers. Surf is non-negotiable on Starmie,
allowing it to defeat Skarmory, non-Hidden Power Bug Forretress, and
Cloyster if Starmie lacks Thunderbolt. There's no need to use Hydro Pump
because its low PP and mediocre accuracy is not worth the increase in
power. The final moveslot comes down to personal preference. Thunderbolt
is good against opposing Water-types, while Ice Beam is useful for
Dragon-types such as Salamence.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The given EV spread ensures that Starmie outspeeds everything up to
Gengar, which includes Pokemon such as Zapdos and Flygon. Maximum HP is
necessary to ensure that Starmie is able to check non-Choice Band
Metagross and helps Starmie stay true to its bulky Water-type status.
Reducing Starmie's Speed stat to 332 still allows it to outspeed
positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon, as well as Adamant +1
Tyranitar. The rest of the EVs can be dumped into Special Attack to
increase Starmie's damage output. Maximum Speed investment is useful for
outspeeding other Starmie and bulkier Raikou that do not maximize their
Speed investment.

As for moveset changes, Starmie does have a myriad of other options.
Psychic is good for nailing a Gengar that might be expecting a Rapid
Spin. Psychic is also a good secondary STAB move to hit Water-types such
as Milotic. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling devastating sweepers
such as Tyranitar, which Starmie can take a hit from, paralyze, and hit
hard with Surf; Salamence, which doesn't OHKO Starmie with +1 Hidden
Power Flying, will not want to eat a Thunder Wave. Reflect is useful not
only for supporting your team, but for allowing Starmie to take on
Snorlax with greater ease. Hidden Power Fire is good for defeating
specially defensive Forretress with Hidden Power Bug, a variant of
Forretress that Starmie can't defeat otherwise.

As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can defeat special walls are
excellent partners. With a couple layers of Spikes down, Metal Sound
Zapdos has no problems beating even Blissey, the premier special wall in
ADV. With Reflect, Jirachi can set up on and defeat even Curse Snorlax.
Regice or Gengar with Focus Punch or Explosion are good at luring in
specially defensive walls expecting a special attack. Celebi can switch
into most special walls, with the exception of Regice, and set up Calm
Minds while utilizing Leech Seed to regain lost health. Other good
teammates are Pokemon that outright destroy most special walls. Medicham
is one of the best wallbreakers in OU and can 2HKO every single special
wall in the tier. Metagross can switch into Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey
with ease and proceed to threaten them with a STAB Meteor Mash.
Tyranitar has no problem setting up on Blissey and Regice lacking
Thunder Wave and can instantly threaten a sweep. Finally, grounded
Pokemon that appreciate Rapid Spin support to consistently check threats
are good partners for Starmie. Celebi, Jirachi, Blissey, and Snorlax are
good examples of Pokemon that appreciate the removal of Spikes to
consistently check dangerous threats.

[SET]
name: Offensive Star
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Starmie functions well as a special sweeper, with its combined blessings
of a great offensive movepool and a usable Special Attack stat. Hydro Pump is
Starmie's main STAB move, useful for whittling away at the HP of Snorlax
and Regice while dealing hefty damage to Swampert, Flygon, and
Heracross. Hydro Pump's accuracy is a necessary tradeoff, as its power difference compared to Surf is too great against important targets such as Tyranitar, Swampert and Jirachi. Thunderbolt prevents Starmie from being walled by
Pokemon such as Milotic, opposing Starmie, Gyarados, and other common
Water-types. Ice Beam is Starmie's best option against Celebi and
Zapdos, forming the famous coverage combination of BoltBeam with
Thunderbolt. Recover rounds off the set, ensuring that Starmie is able
to bring the pain throughout the battle by increasing its longevity.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The given EV spread allows Starmie to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon,
Zapdos, and other fast threats in the metagame, while Speed tying with
Raikou and opposing Starmie that are running 252 Speed EVs and a
Speed-boosting nature. This Starmie set is going to need a good amount
of support if it is going to thrive on your team. Dedicated specially
defensive walls give this set a lot of trouble. To remedy this problem,
Spikes and sandstorm damage is a great way to defeat Snorlax and Regice
over time. Skarmory is the best physical wall in the tier and has access
to Spikes. Forretress can get rid of Spikes to make sure that Starmie
can switch in with more ease while it sets up its own Spikes. Tyranitar
is arguably the most dominate Pokemon in OU, can set up on Regice and
Snorlax, and its access to Sand Stream negates their Leftovers recovery.
Although Snorlax and Regice have an incredible Special Defense stat,
they're not very adept at taking repeated hits. However, Blissey is a
different story. Because of Blissey's unparalleled specially defensive
prowess, Starmie will need teammates that can lure in and OHKO Blissey.
Pokemon such as Explosion Gengar and Regice are very good at luring out
and OHKOing Blissey. Additionally, the aforementioned lures are also
good at defeating Regice and Snorlax, despite their superior Defense
stats.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

As far as other options go, Starmie doesn't have too many other things
to choose from other than the sets listed earlier. Thunder is a stronger
alternative over Thunderbolt while Blizzard is a stronger alternative to
Ice Beam; unfortunately, both Blizzard and Thunder's relatively low
accuracy diminish their viability. Rain Dance is cool for boosting
Surf's power as well as activating Starmie's teammates' Swift Swim; more
importantly, Rain Dance is useful for giving Starmie and its teammates a
Thunder with perfect accuracy. Light Screen is useful for supporting
Starmie's team, as well as giving Starmie a better chance at combating
Zapdos. Other than the given sets, it's best to be using Starmie
offensively or not at all.

Checks and Counters
===================

If Starmie is not running the offensive set, it's very easy to check.
Even if running an offensive set, Starmie will still be stopped cold by
the trifecta of OU's special walls known as Regice, Snorlax, and
Blissey. Regice gets rid of Starmie with Thunderbolt, Blissey can set up
Calm Minds and threaten a sweep, and Snorlax can do the same with Curse.
Other than the aforementioned dedicated special walls, Starmie can still
be checked reliably by other Pokemon. More offensive checks to Starmie
include Raikou, which can take a Surf that Starmie throws at it and set
up Calm Minds; Jolteon can take any of Starmie's special attack with
ease and destroy it with Thunderbolt; Zapdos can also OHKO Starmie with
Thunderbolt. If you're feeling gutsy, Dugtrio can come in on a weakened
Starmie and attempt a KO with a Choice Band-boosted Earthquake. Suicune
takes little from any attack bar Thunderbolt, can Calm Mind to lessen
Thunderbolt's damage, and sweep; additionally, Celebi and Jirachi can
both set up Calm Minds against Starmie. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress with
Hidden Power Bug can take a few of Surfs from the first set, two Surfs
from the offensive set, and defeat Starmie with its STAB Hidden Power
Bug. Finally, Vaporeon and Milotic can stall out Starmie with Toxic,
their good Special Defense stats, and access to reliable recovery.
Starmie's access to Natural Cure means it won't be beaten outright by
these two Pokemon, however. All in all, Starmie, while an incredible
spinner, isn't something to be too afraid of if you run a sturdy
specially defensive wall.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[OVERVIEW]
Starmie is easily the best Rapid Spin user in OU, being able to switch into nearly all Spikes users, threaten them out, and spin away Spikes. It is best used offensively thanks to its high speed and coverage letting it check many top threats like Salamence and Tyranitar, but it can also uniquely run Rapid Spin and Recover together, making it a sturdy supporter of a bulkier team.

Unfortunately, Starmie is not without fault. Its Special Attack stat is not high enough to defeat some of the most common walls in ADV, such as Celebi, Zapdos, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax, and these Pokemon defeat Starmie with ease. Suicune can also set up against Starmie with Calm Mind, even in the face of Thunderbolt. These faults make Starmie an ineffective option against bulkier teams despite its incredible offensive movepool. Although Starmie has a number of important limitations, it'd be foolish not to consider it if your team is in need of Rapid Spin support or a fast, versatile, and sturdy special attacker.

[SET]
name: Offensive Star
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rapid Spin / Psychic
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Starmie functions well as a special sweeper, with its combined blessings of a great offensive movepool and a usable Special Attack stat. Hydro Pump is Starmie's main STAB move, useful for whittling away at Snorlax and Regice while dealing hefty damage to Swampert, Flygon, and Heracross. Hydro Pump's accuracy is a necessary tradeoff, as its power difference compared to Surf is too great against important targets such as Tyranitar, Swampert, and Jirachi. Thunderbolt prevents Starmie from being walled by Pokemon such as Milotic, opposing Starmie, Gyarados, and other common Water-types. Ice Beam is Starmie's best option against Celebi, Salamence, and Zapdos, forming the famous coverage combination of BoltBeam with Thunderbolt. Rapid Spin typically fills the last slot, as Starmie's offensive presence can force many switches on which Starmie can remove Spikes. As Starmie is faster than it, Gengar cannot easily switch in to block Rapid Spin for fear of being 2HKOed, so Starmie's spin is usually guaranteed even without prediction. It may seem strange to run Psychic and forego Rapid Spin, but Psychic rounds out Starmie's coverage, giving it the ability to OHKO Gengar and some Heracross, as well as being a more accurate STAB option when the risk of Hydro Pump missing is unacceptable.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The given EV spread allows Starmie to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Zapdos, and other fast threats in the metagame while Speed tying with maximum-speed Raikou and opposing Starmie. This Starmie set is going to need a good amount of support if it is going to thrive on your team. Dedicated specially defensive walls give this set a lot of trouble. To remedy this problem, combining Spikes and sandstorm damage is a great way to defeat Snorlax and Regice over time. Skarmory is the best physical wall in the tier and has access to Spikes. Forretress can get rid of Spikes to make sure that Starmie can switch in with more ease while it sets up its own Spikes—this also frees up Starmie's fourth moveslot for Psychic, Recover, or another move. Tyranitar, arguably the most dominant Pokemon in OU, can set up on Regice and Snorlax, and its access to Sand Stream negates their Leftovers recovery. Because of Blissey's unparalleled specially defensive prowess, Starmie will appreciate teammates like Explosion Gengar and Regice, which lure in and OHKO Blissey. Additionally, the aforementioned lures are good at defeating Regice and Snorlax.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Rapid Spin
move 3: Recover
move 4: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Starmie can function as a durable Rapid Spin user with the given set. Starmie is the only Rapid Spin user in OU with access to Recover, and it has the potential to beat nearly every Spikes user in the metagame. Rapid Spin is also useful for getting rid of Celebi's Leech Seed, meaning Starmie can stall and annoy Celebi lacking a Grass-type attack. With Recover, Starmie can repeatedly switch into and spin on Metagross, Snorlax, and other prominent physical attackers. Surf is non-negotiable on Starmie, allowing it to defeat Skarmory, non-Hidden Power Bug Forretress, and Cloyster if Starmie lacks Thunderbolt. There's no need to use Hydro Pump because its low PP and mediocre accuracy are not worth the increase in power. The final moveslot comes down to personal preference. Thunderbolt is good against opposing Water-types, while Ice Beam is useful for Dragon-types such as Salamence. Once defensive Starmie's coverage attack is revealed, it can become very easy to switch into and lose a lot of momentum. A Starmie lacking Ice Beam is an entirely free switch-in opportunity for an opposing Celebi or Zapdos. On the other hand, a Starmie lacking Thunderbolt is an easy opportunity for opposing Milotic, Suicune, Gyarados, and even specially defensive Skarmory to steal momentum away from you.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The given EV spread ensures that Starmie outspeeds everything up to Gengar, which includes Pokemon such as Zapdos and Flygon. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Starmie is able to check non-Choice Band Metagross and helps Starmie stay true to its bulky Water-type status. Reducing Starmie's Speed investment to 144 EVs with a Timid nature still allows it to outspeed positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon as well as Adamant +1 Tyranitar. The rest of the EVs can be dumped into Special Attack to increase Starmie's damage output. Alternatively, maximum Speed investment is useful for outspeeding other Starmie and bulkier Raikou that do not maximize their Speed investment.

Starmie does have a few other decent options alongside Rapid Spin, Recover, and Surf. Psychic is good for nailing a Gengar that might be expecting a Rapid Spin. It is also a good secondary STAB move that hits Water-types such as Milotic, though less hard than Thunderbolt. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling devastating sweepers such as Tyranitar, which Starmie can take a hit from, paralyze, and hit hard with Surf, and Salamence, which doesn't OHKO Starmie with +1 Hidden Power Flying. Reflect is useful not only for supporting your team but also for allowing Starmie to take on Snorlax with greater ease.

As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can defeat special walls are excellent partners. With a couple layers of Spikes down, Metal Sound Zapdos has no problems beating even Blissey, the premier special wall in ADV. Regice and Gengar with Focus Punch or Explosion are good at luring in specially defensive walls expecting a special attack. Celebi can switch into most special walls, with the exception of Regice, and set up Calm Minds while utilizing Leech Seed to regain lost health. Other good teammates are Pokemon that outright destroy most special walls. Medicham is one of the best wallbreakers in OU and can 2HKO every special wall in the tier. Metagross can switch into Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey with ease and proceed to threaten them with a STAB Meteor Mash. Tyranitar has no problem setting up on Blissey and Regice lacking Thunder Wave and can instantly threaten a sweep. Finally, grounded Pokemon that appreciate Rapid Spin support to consistently check threats are good partners for Starmie. Celebi, Jirachi, Blissey, and Snorlax are good examples.

[Strategy Comments]
Other Options
========

Starmie doesn't have many other things to choose from. Perhaps the best niche option is Hidden Power Grass. Just as it does on many other Pokemon, it lets Starmie conclusively beat Swampert, a common tank. Thunder is a stronger alternative over Thunderbolt, while Blizzard is a stronger alternative to Ice Beam; unfortunately, Blizzard and Thunder's relatively low accuracy diminishes their viability. Light Screen is useful for supporting Starmie's team and giving Starmie a better chance at combating Zapdos.

Checks and Counters
========

If Starmie is not running the offensive set, it's very easy to check. Anything not weak to Water, Ice, or Electric (and even some Pokemon weak to one of those types, assuming they're bulky and have recovery, such as Celebi and Suicune) will check defensive Starmie. Even if running an offensive set, Starmie will still be stopped cold by the trifecta of OU's special walls known as Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey. Regice gets rid of Starmie with Thunderbolt, Blissey can set up Calm Minds and threaten a sweep, and Snorlax can do the same with Curse. More offensive checks to Starmie include Raikou, which can take a Surf and set up Calm Minds; Jolteon, which can take any of Starmie's special attacks with ease and destroy it with Thunderbolt; and Zapdos, which can also OHKO Starmie with Thunderbolt. If you're feeling gutsy, Dugtrio can come in on a weakened Starmie and attempt a KO with a Choice Band-boosted Earthquake. Suicune takes little from any attack bar Thunderbolt and can set up Calm Mind to lessen Thunderbolt's damage and sweep; additionally, Celebi and Jirachi can set up Calm Minds against Starmie. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress can take a few Surfs from the defensive set and defeat Starmie with its STAB Hidden Power Bug. It even has a chance to take two Hydro Pumps from the offensive set. Finally, Vaporeon and Milotic can stall out Starmie with Toxic, their good Special Defense stats, and access to reliable recovery. Starmie's access to Natural Cure means it won't be beaten outright by these two Pokemon, however. All in all, Starmie, while an incredible spinner, isn't something to be too afraid of if you run a sturdy specially defensive wall.
 
Last edited:

Lumari

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GP 1/2
[OVERVIEW]
Starmie is easily the best Rapid Spin user in OU, (comma) The blue star is being (optional-ish, singular thought works better as singular sentence)able to easily switch into all of the Spikes users in OU—with the exception of specially defensive Hidden Power Bug Forretress—threaten them out, and spin away Spikes. Additionally, Starmie is one of the fastest Pokemon in OU; its illustrious Speed stat allows it to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Salamence, a boosted neutral-natured (AH) Tyranitar, and other speedy threats in OU (RC) while threatening to OHKO or severely dent all of them with its incredible offensive movepool. Even though Starmie can uniquely run Rapid Spin and Recover together, Starmie's best attributes are its speed and coverage. Using only two attacks alongside Rapid Spin and Recover makes Starmie nearly purely defensive, since so many Pokemon can switch into a 2-attack Starmie with minimal Special Attack investment. Instead, Therefore, Starmie is best served by its offensive set with 3 attacks instead.

Unfortunately, Starmie is not without fault. Its Special Attack stat is not high enough to defeat some of the most common walls in ADV, such as Celebi, Zapdos, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax, with any set. Additionally, all of the aforementioned Pokemon can defeat Starmie with relative ease; Celebi and Blissey can set up Calm Minds, Zapdos and Regice can use Thunderbolt, and Snorlax can use Curse without fear. To make matters worse, Starmie is the only Psychic-type in OU that lacks Calm Mind (bar Claydol). These faults make Starmie not an effective option against bulkier teams, despite its incredible offensive movepool. Defensively, Starmie's Water typing and access to Thunderbolt makes make it a great check to most Water-types like Milotic and Gyarados. However, it cannot beat Calm Mind Suicune, Swampert, due to its secondary Ground typing, (kind of unnecessary and disrupts sentence flow, you can keep it if you must though) or the rare Ludicolo. Starmie's secondary Psychic typing surprisingly helps it a great deal. It can switch into Celebi that lack Giga Drain or Hidden Power Grass, Rapid Spin away Spikes and potentially Leech Seed, and switch out before Celebi gets too many Calm Mind boosts. Similarly, Starmie can switch into Calm Mind Jirachi lacking Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Grass and support its team with Rapid Spin. Starmie's generally good typing does, (AC) however, (AC) have come with weaknesses to some common attacks in OU such as Hidden Power Bug and Thunderbolt, thus diminishing some of its defensive prowess. Although Starmie has a number of important limitations, it'd be foolish not to consider it if your team is in need of Rapid Spin support or a fast, versatile, and sturdy special attacker.

[SET]
name: Offensive Star
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rapid Spin / Psychic
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Starmie functions well as a special sweeper, with its combined blessings of a great offensive movepool and a usable Special Attack stat. Hydro Pump is Starmie's main STAB move, useful for whittling away at the HP of Snorlax and Regice while dealing hefty damage to Swampert, Flygon, and Heracross. Hydro Pump's accuracy is a necessary tradeoff, as its power difference compared to Surf is too great against important targets such as Tyranitar, Swampert, (AC) and Jirachi. Thunderbolt prevents Starmie from being walled by Pokemon such as Milotic, opposing Starmie, Gyarados, and other common Water-types. Ice Beam is Starmie's best option against Celebi, Salamence, and Zapdos, forming the famous coverage combination of BoltBeam with Thunderbolt. Rapid Spin typically fills the last slot, as Starmie's offensive presence can force many switches on which Starmie can Rapid Spin remove Spikes. As Starmie is faster than Gengar, it cannot easily switch in to block Rapid Spin, for fear of being 2HKOed, so Starmie's spin is usually guaranteed even without prediction. It may seem strange to run Psychic and forego Rapid Spin, but Psychic rounds out Starmie's coverage, giving it the ability to OHKO Gengar and some Heracross, as well as a more accurate STAB option, when the risk of Hydro Pump missing is unacceptable.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The given EV spread allows Starmie to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Zapdos, and other fast threats in the metagame (RC) while Speed tying with Raikou and opposing Starmie that are running 252 Speed EVs and a Speed-boosting nature. This Starmie set is going to need a good amount of support if it is going to thrive on your team. Dedicated specially defensive walls give this set a lot of trouble. To remedy this problem, Spikes and sandstorm damage is a great way to defeat Snorlax and Regice over time. Skarmory is the best physical wall in the tier and has access to Spikes. Forretress can get rid of Spikes to make sure that Starmie can switch in with more ease while it sets up its own Spikes—this also frees up Starmie's fourth moveslot for Psychic, Recover, or another move. Tyranitar, arguably the most dominant Pokemon in OU, can set up on Regice and Snorlax, and its access to Sand Stream negates their Leftovers recovery. Because of Blissey's unparalleled specially defensive prowess, Starmie will appreciate teammates that can lure in and OHKO Blissey. Pokemon such as Explosion Gengar and Regice are very good at luring out and OHKOing Blissey. Additionally, the aforementioned lures are also good at defeating Regice and Snorlax.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Rapid Spin
move 3: Recover
move 4: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Starmie can function as a durable Rapid Spin user with the given set. Starmie is the only Rapid Spin user in OU with access to Recover, (AC) and it has the potential to beat nearly every single Spikes user in the metagame. Other than getting rid of entry hazards, Rapid Spin is also useful for getting rid of Celebi's Leech Seed, thus giving Starmie another easy switch in to take advantage of (don't get this sentence, "another easy target to switch in on and use Rapid Spin on"?) and use Rapid Spin. Recover is another very important move for Starmie. With Recover, the blue star can repeatedly switch into and Rapid Spin on Metagross, Snorlax, and other prominent physical attackers. Surf is non-negotiable on Starmie, allowing it to defeat Skarmory, non-Hidden Power Bug Forretress, and Cloyster if Starmie lacks Thunderbolt. There's no need to use Hydro Pump because its low PP and mediocre accuracy is are not worth the increase in power. The final moveslot comes down to personal preference. Thunderbolt is good against opposing Water-types, while Ice Beam is useful for Dragon-types such as Salamence. Once revealed which coverage attack defensive Starmie is using, it can become very easy to switch into. A Starmie lacking Ice Beam is an entirely free switch-in opportunity for an opposing Celebi or Zapdos. On the other hand, a Starmie lacking Thunderbolt is an easy opportunity for opposing Milotic, Suicune, Gyarados, and even Specially Defensive Skarmory to steal momentum away from you.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The given EV spread ensures that Starmie outspeeds everything up to Gengar, which includes Pokemon such as Zapdos and Flygon. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Starmie is able to check non-Choice Band Metagross and helps Starmie stay true to its bulky Water-type status. Reducing Starmie's Speed stat to 332 (change this to EVs for reader convenience plz) still allows it to outspeed positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon, as well as Adamant +1 Tyranitar. The rest of the EVs can be dumped into Special Attack to increase Starmie's damage output. Alternatively, maximum Speed investment is useful for outspeeding other Starmie and bulkier Raikou that do not maximize their Speed investment.

Starmie does have a few other decent options alongside Rapid Spin, Recover, and Surf. Psychic is good for nailing a Gengar that might be expecting a Rapid Spin. Psychic It is also a good secondary STAB move to hit Water-types such as Milotic, though less hard than Thunderbolt. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling devastating sweepers such as Tyranitar, which Starmie can take a hit from, paralyze, and hit hard with Surf, (comma) and Salamence, which doesn't OHKO Starmie with +1 Hidden Power Flying, will not want to eat a Thunder Wave. Reflect is useful not only for supporting your team (RC) but also for allowing Starmie to take on Snorlax with greater ease.

As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can defeat special walls are excellent partners. With a couple layers of Spikes down, Metal Sound Zapdos has no problems beating even Blissey, the premier special wall in ADV. Regice or Gengar with Focus Punch or Explosion are good at luring in specially defensive walls expecting a special attack. Celebi can switch into most special walls, with the exception of Regice, and set up Calm Minds while utilizing Leech Seed to regain lost health. Other good teammates are Pokemon that outright destroy most special walls. Medicham is one of the best wallbreakers in OU and can 2HKO every single special wall in the tier. Metagross can switch into Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey with ease and proceed to threaten them with a STAB Meteor Mash. Tyranitar has no problem setting up on Blissey and Regice lacking Thunder Wave and can instantly threaten a sweep. Finally, grounded Pokemon that appreciate Rapid Spin support to consistently check threats are good partners for Starmie. Celebi, Jirachi, Blissey, and Snorlax are good examples of Pokemon that appreciate the removal of Spikes to consistently check dangerous threats.

[Other Options]
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
========


As far as other options go, Starmie doesn't have too many other things to choose from other than the sets listed earlier. Perhaps the best niche option is Hidden Power Grass. Just as it does on many other Pokemon, it lets Starmie conclusively beat Swampert, a common tank. Thunder is a stronger alternative over Thunderbolt while Blizzard is a stronger alternative to Ice Beam; unfortunately, both Blizzard and Thunder's relatively low accuracy diminish their viability. Light Screen is useful for supporting Starmie's team, as well as for giving Starmie a better chance at combating Zapdos.

[Checks and Counters]
Checks and Counters
========

If Starmie is not running the offensive set, it's very easy to check. Anything not weak to Water, Ice, or Electric (and even some Pokemon weak to one of those types, assuming they're bulky and have recovery, such as Celebi or Suicune) will check defensive Starmie. Even if running an offensive set, Starmie will still be stopped cold by the trifecta of OU's special walls known as Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey. Regice gets rid of Starmie with Thunderbolt, Blissey can set up Calm Minds and threaten a sweep, and Snorlax can do the same with Curse. Other than the aforementioned dedicated special walls, Starmie can still be checked reliably by other Pokemon. More offensive checks to Starmie include Raikou, which can take a Surf that Starmie throws at it and set up Calm Minds; Jolteon can take any of Starmie's special attacks with ease and destroy it with Thunderbolt; and Zapdos can also OHKO Starmie with Thunderbolt. If you're feeling gutsy, Dugtrio can come in on a weakened Starmie and attempt a KO with a Choice Band-boosted Earthquake. Suicune takes little from any attack bar Thunderbolt (RC) and can set up Calm Mind to lessen Thunderbolt's damage (RC) and sweep; additionally, Celebi and Jirachi can both set up Calm Minds against Starmie. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress with Hidden Power Bug can take a few of Surfs from the defensive set and defeat Starmie with its STAB Hidden Power Bug. It even has a chance to take two Hydro Pumps from the offensive set. Finally, Vaporeon and Milotic can stall out Starmie with Toxic, their good Special Defense stats, and access to reliable recovery. Starmie's access to Natural Cure means it won't be beaten outright by these two Pokemon, however. All in all, Starmie, while an incredible spinner, isn't something to be too afraid of if you run a sturdy specially defensive wall.
 

Nix_Hex

Uangaana kasuttortunga!
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Can't offer much feedback cause on phone, but holy hell, that overview is WAY too big. You can easily condense it to say that it has great utility with rapid spin, reliable recovery, super duper speed, and an incredible special movepool, then highlight it's weak points, in about 4 or 5 sentences. The embellishments like who specifically it can and cant switch into, the fact that it doesn't get calm mind, etc can go in each relevant set.

Maybe it's no big deal cause it's 4 gens ago and "nobody's gonna read it" yada yada, but it really is an eyesore. Sorry :( ILY please don't kill me!
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Updated and ready for the second check. And yeah NixHex I was going off the length of the current starmie analysis but looking at other adv analyses, starmie's was abnormally long by a wiiiiiiiide margin. I cut it down a lot.
 

GP 2/2
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[OVERVIEW]
Starmie is easily the best Rapid Spin user in OU, being able to switch into nearly all of the Spikes users in OU, (subjective, but after "best Rapid Spin user in OU" I think this sounds pretty redundant) threaten them out, and spin away Spikes. It is best used offensively, (comma) thanks to its high speed and coverage that let letting it check many top threats like Salamence and Tyranitar, but it can also uniquely run Rapid Spin and Recover together, making it a sturdy supporter of a bulkier team.

Unfortunately, Starmie is not without fault. Its Special Attack stat is not high enough to defeat some of the most common walls in ADV, such as Celebi, Zapdos, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax, and all these Pokemon defeat Starmie with ease. Suicune can also set up against Starmie with Calm Mind, even in the face of Thunderbolt. These faults make Starmie not an ineffective option against bulkier teams, (comma) despite its incredible offensive movepool. Although Starmie has a number of important limitations, it'd be foolish not to consider it if your team is in need of Rapid Spin support or a fast, versatile, and sturdy special attacker.

[SET]
name: Offensive Star
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rapid Spin / Psychic
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Starmie functions well as a special sweeper, with its combined blessings of a great offensive movepool and a usable Special Attack stat. Hydro Pump is Starmie's main STAB move, useful for whittling away at the HP of Snorlax and Regice while dealing hefty damage to Swampert, Flygon, and Heracross. Hydro Pump's accuracy is a necessary tradeoff, as its power difference compared to Surf is too great against important targets such as Tyranitar, Swampert, and Jirachi. Thunderbolt prevents Starmie from being walled by Pokemon such as Milotic, opposing Starmie, Gyarados, and other common Water-types. Ice Beam is Starmie's best option against Celebi, Salamence, and Zapdos, forming the famous coverage combination of BoltBeam with Thunderbolt. Rapid Spin typically fills the last slot, as Starmie's offensive presence can force many switches on which Starmie can remove Spikes. As Starmie is faster than Gengar, it it, Gengar cannot easily switch in to block Rapid Spin, (comma) for fear of being 2HKOed, so Starmie's spin is usually guaranteed even without prediction. It may seem strange to run Psychic and forego Rapid Spin, but Psychic rounds out Starmie's coverage, giving it the ability to OHKO Gengar and some Heracross, as well as being a more accurate STAB option, (comma) when the risk of Hydro Pump missing is unacceptable.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The given EV spread allows Starmie to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Zapdos, and other fast threats in the metagame while Speed tying with maximum-Speed Raikou and opposing Starmie that are running 252 Speed EVs and a Speed-boosting nature. This Starmie set is going to need a good amount of support if it is going to thrive on your team. Dedicated specially defensive walls give this set a lot of trouble. To remedy this problem, combining Spikes and sandstorm damage is a great way to defeat Snorlax and Regice over time. Skarmory is the best physical wall in the tier and has access to Spikes. Forretress can get rid of Spikes to make sure that Starmie can switch in with more ease while it sets up its own Spikes—this also frees up Starmie's fourth moveslot for Psychic, Recover, or another move. Tyranitar, arguably the most dominant Pokemon in OU, can set up on Regice and Snorlax, and its access to Sand Stream negates their Leftovers recovery. Because of Blissey's unparalleled specially defensive prowess, Starmie will appreciate teammates like Explosion Gengar and Regice, which that can lure in and OHKO Blissey. Pokemon such as Explosion Gengar and Regice are very good at luring out and OHKOing Blissey. Additionally, the aforementioned lures are also good at defeating Regice and Snorlax.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Rapid Spin
move 3: Recover
move 4: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Starmie can function as a durable Rapid Spin user with the given set. Starmie is the only Rapid Spin user in OU with access to Recover, and it has the potential to beat nearly every single Spikes user in the metagame. Rapid Spin is also useful for getting rid of Celebi's Leech Seed, meaning Starmie can stall and annoy Celebi lacking a Grass-type attack. Recover is another very important move for Starmie. With Recover, the blue star Starmie can repeatedly switch into and Rapid Spin spin on Metagross, Snorlax, and other prominent physical attackers. Surf is non-negotiable on Starmie, allowing it to defeat Skarmory, non-Hidden Power Bug Forretress, and Cloyster if Starmie lacks Thunderbolt. There's no need to use Hydro Pump because its low PP and mediocre accuracy are not worth the increase in power. The final moveslot comes down to personal preference. Thunderbolt is good against opposing Water-types, while Ice Beam is useful for Dragon-types such as Salamence. Once revealed which coverage attack defensive Starmie is using Once defensive Starmie's coverage attack is revealed, it can become very easy to switch into and lose a lot of momentum. A Starmie lacking Ice Beam is an entirely free switch-in opportunity for an opposing Celebi or Zapdos. On the other hand, a Starmie lacking Thunderbolt is an easy opportunity for opposing Milotic, Suicune, Gyarados, and even specially defensive Skarmory to steal momentum away from you.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The given EV spread ensures that Starmie outspeeds everything up to Gengar, which includes Pokemon such as Zapdos and Flygon. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Starmie is able to check non-Choice Band Metagross and helps Starmie stay true to its bulky Water-type status. Reducing Starmie's Speed investment to 144 EVs with a Timid nature still allows it to outspeed positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon, (comma) as well as Adamant +1 Tyranitar. The rest of the EVs can be dumped into Special Attack to increase Starmie's damage output. Alternatively, maximum Speed investment is useful for outspeeding other Starmie and bulkier Raikou that do not maximize their Speed investment.

Starmie does have a few other decent options alongside Rapid Spin, Recover, and Surf. Psychic is good for nailing a Gengar that might be expecting a Rapid Spin. It is also a good secondary STAB move to that hits Water-types such as Milotic, though less hard than Thunderbolt. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling devastating sweepers such as Tyranitar, which Starmie can take a hit from, paralyze, and hit hard with Surf, and Salamence, which doesn't OHKO Starmie with +1 Hidden Power Flying. Reflect is useful not only for supporting your team but also for allowing Starmie to take on Snorlax with greater ease.

As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can defeat special walls are excellent partners. With a couple layers of Spikes down, Metal Sound Zapdos has no problems beating even Blissey, the premier special wall in ADV. Regice or and Gengar with Focus Punch or Explosion are good at luring in specially defensive walls expecting a special attack. Celebi can switch into most special walls, with the exception of Regice, and set up Calm Minds while utilizing Leech Seed to regain lost health. Other good teammates are Pokemon that outright destroy most special walls. Medicham is one of the best wallbreakers in OU and can 2HKO every single special wall in the tier. Metagross can switch into Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey with ease and proceed to threaten them with a STAB Meteor Mash. Tyranitar has no problem setting up on Blissey and Regice lacking Thunder Wave and can instantly threaten a sweep. Finally, grounded Pokemon that appreciate Rapid Spin support to consistently check threats are good partners for Starmie. Celebi, Jirachi, Blissey, and Snorlax are good examples of Pokemon that appreciate the removal of Spikes to consistently check dangerous threats.

[Strategy Comments]
Other Options
========

Starmie doesn't have too many other things to choose from other than the sets listed earlier. Perhaps the best niche option is Hidden Power Grass. Just as it does on many other Pokemon, it lets Starmie conclusively beat Swampert, a common tank. Thunder is a stronger alternative over Thunderbolt, (comma) while Blizzard is a stronger alternative to
Ice Beam; unfortunately, Blizzard and Thunder's relatively low accuracy diminishes their viability. Light Screen is useful for supporting Starmie's team, (comma) as well as for and giving Starmie a better chance at combating Zapdos.

Checks and Counters
========

If Starmie is not running the offensive set, it's very easy to check. Anything not weak to Water, Ice, or Electric (and even some Pokemon weak to one of those types, assuming they're bulky and have recovery, such as Celebi or and Suicune) will check defensive Starmie. Even if running an offensive set, Starmie will still be stopped cold by the trifecta of OU's special walls known as Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey. Regice gets rid of Starmie with Thunderbolt, Blissey can set up Calm Minds and threaten a sweep, and Snorlax can do the same with Curse. Other than the aforementioned dedicated special walls, Starmie can still be checked reliably by other Pokemon. More offensive checks to Starmie include Raikou, which can take a Surf and set up Calm Minds; Jolteon, (comma) which can take any of Starmie's special attacks with ease and destroy it with Thunderbolt,; (comma) (semicolon) and Zapdos, (comma) which can also OHKO Starmie with Thunderbolt. If you're feeling gutsy, Dugtrio can come in on a weakened Starmie and attempt a KO with a Choice Band-boosted Earthquake. Suicune takes little from any attack bar Thunderbolt and can set up Calm Mind to lessen Thunderbolt's damage and sweep; additionally, Celebi and Jirachi can both set up Calm Minds against Starmie. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress can take a few Surfs from the defensive set and defeat Starmie with its STAB Hidden Power Bug. It even has a chance to take two Hydro Pumps from the offensive set. Finally, Vaporeon and Milotic can stall out Starmie with Toxic, their good Special Defense stats, and access to reliable recovery. Starmie's access to Natural Cure means it won't be beaten outright by these two Pokemon, however. All in all, Starmie, while an incredible spinner, isn't something to be too afraid of if you run a sturdy specially defensive wall.
 
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