Metagame SM RU - RU Alpha Discussion - Month 2

What are you looking forward to in Sun/Moon?


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  • Poll closed .
And We're finally in month two:

Rises -- > Alakazam, Klefki, Absol-Mega, Togekiss, Swampert, Crobat, Chandelure, Celebi, Suicune, Doublade, Mienshao, Metagross, Roserade, Arcanine, Lucario, Haxorus, Kommo-o, Araquanid, Porygon2

Drops -- > Magneton, Gigalith, Bewear

UU Stats (note: that they're not quite complete yet):

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/gen7uubeta-1630.txt

Try and keep your posts about drops/rises constructive moving forward, thanks.
And with that, Sun and Moon RU is no longer a total clusterfuck.

I'm really looking forward to using my boy Heracross in this new metagame. Without Mienshao, its Choice Scarf set is now one of the most threatening things in RU. Trust me, once it gets a Moxie boost, there's no stopping it.
 
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And with that, Sun and Moon RU is no longer a total clusterfuck.

I'm really looking forward to using my boy Heracross in this new metagame. Without Mienshao, its Choice Scarf set is now one of the most threatening things in RU. Trust me, once it gets a Moxie boost, there's no stopping it.

And what the hell is Bewear doing in RU!? It was already an excellent tank in UU and even has a niche in OU, so it's no doubt going to be absolutely broken. Please get this the hell out of here before Beta, or at least quick ban it along with (lol) Kyurem.
Uhh... a pokemon being good in higher tier doesn't necessarily mean it'll be broken in a lower tier at all. Theres absolutely no reason to preemptively ban bewear, especially since it appears you haven't used it at all and are speculating based simply off of its performance in other tiers.
 
Uhh... a pokemon being good in higher tier doesn't necessarily mean it'll be broken in a lower tier at all. Theres absolutely no reason to preemptively ban bewear, especially since it appears you haven't used it at all and are speculating based simply off of its performance in other tiers.
I guess you're right, my bad. I deleted that part.

EDIT: Stupid Showdown still won't let me use Bewear wtf The Immortal please fix.
 
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Good thing all those (most of the broken stuff) are gone. I still hope Tsareena drops for rapid spin, though. Really don't want Dhelmise to turn out like Vaporeon in gen 6 UU (never dropped and probably would not be broken in RU, but was terrible in UU).
It isn't like Dhelmise would be any good in RU anyways though.
 
What's the worst grass type in UU/the one that's most likely to drop to RU?
I'd say Tsareena. Decidueye is used correctly (as a swords dance trapper with spirit shackle and sinister arrow raid, not a defogger) and is unlikely to drop now that people are using it correctly. Really Tsareena has the lowest niche other than hazard removal and probably will drop. Trop kick is not a good reason to use it in UU.
 
I'd say Tsareena. Decidueye is used correctly (as a swords dance trapper with spirit shackle and sinister arrow raid, not a defogger) and is unlikely to drop now that people are using it correctly. Really Tsareena has the lowest niche other than hazard removal and probably will drop. Trop kick is not a good reason to use it in UU.
u forgot dhelmise exists, which is even worse than her.

imo, the trifecta of grass-type hazard removal is shitty, and all 3 should drop
 

MrAldo

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Dhelmise is no by means spectacular but it would have been a welcome addition for a tier that really needs more hazard removal options and could have provided more variety in terms of teambuilding, like you could run dhelmise + nidoqueen instead of having to use donphan and stuff. And with doublade and chandelure gone, less competition for a spinblocker I suppose.

Hazard removers that can switch into common SR setters are always decent options so.
 
Roserade is currently still in the tier, at least according to DTC's list (which is much more accurate then the list me, spirit, and arikado posted).

Also I think Dhelmise would do pretty well in the tier and gets a bit more hate then it deserves. It wouldn't set the tier on fire, but its seems pretty solid. Even when you take away it's spinning abilities, it has decent bulk and a great attack stat backed up by triple stab, including high powered stab in power whip and heavy slam/gyro ball (haven't done the math to see which is better against targets for your steel attacks), plus coverage in eq. Now that our good steels seem to be leaving, its is surprisingly hard to switch into, and spin helps it keep up momentum and pressure against the super bulky teams that can sponge it's attacks.
 

EonX

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FLYING-TYPES


Over the past couple of generations, Flying has been one of the best offensive typings in the game, and Sun and Moon has done surprisingly little to change that. In fact, it can be argued that most physical Flying-types with access to Brave Bird gain huge benefits from Z-moves. The 4 pictured above are pretty easily the best Flying-type attackers in the tier (not counting Swellow since it almost always uses Boomburst) and it's quite easy to throw two of them together often-times to overwhelm what few viable Flying resists that we have. So with that opening out of the way, I want to go a little in-depth with what each can do as it stands right now:



It's pretty easy to say that Tornadus is the best of all the Flying-types overall right now. Whether its breaking walls with mixed sets, utilizing a Specs set in rain, or abusing Defogs coming from Gligar and Lurantis, Tornadus is easily a threat that every team needs to be ready for. Great mixed offensive stats, Prankster Rain Dance, Taunt, and Tailwind, solid offensive movepool, and a complementary second ability all make Tornadus a pain to deal with.

Tornadus (M) @ Life Orb / Fightinium Z / Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Tailwind / Taunt / Rain Dance
- Superpower

Tornadus (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- U-turn

Tornadus (M)
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Knock Off / Bulk Up
- Iron Tail
- Superpower



And here we have the Pokemon that got hit the hardest by the Sun and Moon mechanic changes, Talonflame. With Gale Wings no longer always giving Talonflame priority Brave Birds to throw around or Roosts to heal up with, it has fallen from grace quite a bit to us here in RU. However, Talonflame is very much slept on right now imo. It still has a remarkable base 126 Speed stat and high-powered STABs to offset its otherwise very pedestrian-like base 81 Attack. It also benefits a large amount from Z moves as it has access to a one-time base 195 STAB move to completely nuke something. The 4x Rocks weakness sucks in the current meta, but outside of that, the defensive typing isn't terrible, especially in combination with Flame Body. I'm not going to list Bulk Up as a possible set, but that's mainly due to the fact I haven't been able to work with it much, and thus wouldn't be able to provide a decent EV spread for it.

Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Flame Body / Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Flare Blitz

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Steel Wing / Toxic / Tailwind




Anyone remember that this monster is in the tier? Yeah, Hawlucha is still capable of winning games outright against anything that isn't stall or very hard balance. Even against hard balance, Hawlucha has a good enough Speed tier to threaten most sweepers on such teams with a revenge kill. It's not super strong before a boost, but once it gets that boost on a choice-locked mon or something it threatens out, it can often mean the end of the game, especially if the opposition lacks a priority user in the late-game.

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick



And now we come to the bird of darkness. Honchkrow may have lost a step against offense with the Sucker Punch nerf, but it still ravages bulky offense and balance teams pretty reliably. One can choose to run Steel Wing to blow back Diancie or utilize a Z-move to break past a weakened defensive check mid-game to attempt to maim the opposition. Its frailty is kind of bad and the Sucker Punch nerf is even more evident on the Z-move variant, but it can be kind of scary figuring out whether its a Z-move variant or not during the mid-game because each variant has to be played around a bit differently.

Honchkrow @ Life Orb / Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Steel Wing / Pursuit
- Superpower


There's definitely some other Flying-types that are solid right now as there's even some notable defensive Flying-types, but these are the main four that teams need to be ready for, especially if two of them are used in tandem together.
 
FLYING-TYPES


Over the past couple of generations, Flying has been one of the best offensive typings in the game, and Sun and Moon has done surprisingly little to change that. In fact, it can be argued that most physical Flying-types with access to Brave Bird gain huge benefits from Z-moves. The 4 pictured above are pretty easily the best Flying-type attackers in the tier (not counting Swellow since it almost always uses Boomburst) and it's quite easy to throw two of them together often-times to overwhelm what few viable Flying resists that we have. So with that opening out of the way, I want to go a little in-depth with what each can do as it stands right now:



It's pretty easy to say that Tornadus is the best of all the Flying-types overall right now. Whether its breaking walls with mixed sets, utilizing a Specs set in rain, or abusing Defogs coming from Gligar and Lurantis, Tornadus is easily a threat that every team needs to be ready for. Great mixed offensive stats, Prankster Rain Dance, Taunt, and Tailwind, solid offensive movepool, and a complementary second ability all make Tornadus a pain to deal with.

Tornadus (M) @ Life Orb / Fightinium Z / Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Tailwind / Taunt / Rain Dance
- Superpower

Tornadus (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- U-turn

Tornadus (M)
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Knock Off / Bulk Up
- Iron Tail
- Superpower



And here we have the Pokemon that got hit the hardest by the Sun and Moon mechanic changes, Talonflame. With Gale Wings no longer always giving Talonflame priority Brave Birds to throw around or Roosts to heal up with, it has fallen from grace quite a bit to us here in RU. However, Talonflame is very much slept on right now imo. It still has a remarkable base 126 Speed stat and high-powered STABs to offset its otherwise very pedestrian-like base 81 Attack. It also benefits a large amount from Z moves as it has access to a one-time base 195 STAB move to completely nuke something. The 4x Rocks weakness sucks in the current meta, but outside of that, the defensive typing isn't terrible, especially in combination with Flame Body. I'm not going to list Bulk Up as a possible set, but that's mainly due to the fact I haven't been able to work with it much, and thus wouldn't be able to provide a decent EV spread for it.

Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Flame Body / Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Flare Blitz

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Steel Wing / Toxic / Tailwind




Anyone remember that this monster is in the tier? Yeah, Hawlucha is still capable of winning games outright against anything that isn't stall or very hard balance. Even against hard balance, Hawlucha has a good enough Speed tier to threaten most sweepers on such teams with a revenge kill. It's not super strong before a boost, but once it gets that boost on a choice-locked mon or something it threatens out, it can often mean the end of the game, especially if the opposition lacks a priority user in the late-game.

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- High Jump Kick



And now we come to the bird of darkness. Honchkrow may have lost a step against offense with the Sucker Punch nerf, but it still ravages bulky offense and balance teams pretty reliably. One can choose to run Steel Wing to blow back Diancie or utilize a Z-move to break past a weakened defensive check mid-game to attempt to maim the opposition. Its frailty is kind of bad and the Sucker Punch nerf is even more evident on the Z-move variant, but it can be kind of scary figuring out whether its a Z-move variant or not during the mid-game because each variant has to be played around a bit differently.

Honchkrow @ Life Orb / Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Steel Wing / Pursuit
- Superpower


There's definitely some other Flying-types that are solid right now as there's even some notable defensive Flying-types, but these are the main four that teams need to be ready for, especially if two of them are used in tandem together.
Why run prankster over defiant in your Specs Tornadus set? It has no moves to benefit from it, while defiant at least powers up u-turn
 


Oh my god my crystalline baby has dropped!
I'm feeling like just copying Pyrotoz's AV set is gonna work well, but obviously smooth rock has it's uses. Definitely when paired with Stoutland.



The best set I've seen so far is a suicide rocks lead, but can most likely work as a sand sweeper of you need it to.
Lycanroc @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
- Accelerock
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Taunt/Sucker Punch
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Why run prankster over defiant in your Specs Tornadus set? It has no moves to benefit from it, while defiant at least powers up u-turn
It stops choice band gardevoir from switching into focus blast, tracing defiant, then sweeping from the spdef drop boost.
Maybe he doesn't want to take max damage from Foul Play. Kinda the reason Special Attackers are defaulted to 0 ATK IVs
 

EonX

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Why run prankster over defiant in your Specs Tornadus set? It has no moves to benefit from it, while defiant at least powers up u-turn
While its mildly an oversight, it's highly situational seeing as Specs should primarily be on rain teams and abusing 100% accurate Hurricanes 95% of the time anyway. It at least has a use whereas Prankster doesn't, but I think it would be helpful about as often as it would be unhelpful considering you're abusing Hurricane under most situations. (or at least should be)
 

aVocado

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Oh my god my crystalline baby has dropped!
I'm feeling like just copying Pyrotoz's AV set is gonna work well, but obviously smooth rock has it's uses. Definitely when paired with Stoutland.



The best set I've seen so far is a suicide rocks lead, but can most likely work as a sand sweeper of you need it to.
Lycanroc @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
- Accelerock
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Taunt/Sucker Punch
Why use suicide lead Lycanroc when you can have Archeops or Aerodactyl ? Same role done better. Aerodactyl could even double as a sweeper except outside of sand while Archeops has Knock Off and Endeavor to do some work.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/gen7uubeta-1630.txt Since Arikado is too lazy to do it and I want to snipe Spirit here are the official UU Stats which we will now follow for this month of RU Alpha :) .

Just to reiterate

We lost:
- Togekiss
- Doublade
- Swampert
- Absol-Mega
- Alakazam
- Chandelure
- Celebi
- Mienshao
- Klefki
- Kommo-o
- Crobat
- Metagross
- Roserade
- Arcanine
- Haxorus
- Lucario
- Porygon2
- Araquanid
- Suicune

We gained:
+ Gigalith
+ Magneton
+ Bewear

and kept Flygon and Ninetales- Alola and the cutoff is P2 btw :) Have fun with building!
All well and good, but I've still seen Araquanids on the Alpha ladder, suggesting that it hasn't been updated yet.
 
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/gen7uubeta-1630.txt Since Arikado is too lazy to do it and I want to snipe Spirit here are the official UU Stats which we will now follow for this month of RU Alpha :) .

Just to reiterate

We lost:
- Togekiss
- Doublade
- Swampert
- Absol-Mega
- Alakazam
- Chandelure
- Celebi
- Mienshao
- Klefki
- Kommo-o
- Crobat
- Metagross
- Roserade
- Arcanine
- Haxorus
- Lucario
- Porygon2
- Araquanid
- Suicune

We gained:
+ Gigalith
+ Magneton
+ Bewear

and kept Flygon and Ninetales- Alola and the cutoff is P2 btw :) Have fun with building!
This isn't official. Wait for atomicllamas, Spirit, or yours truly to post the official list.
 

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