Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

[Skuntank3800]

Well I want this set to be nominate, the time that i had to do for first time did not know pass.If there is something that is not going to say it.

I nominate Emboar to C-

I was thinking about a particular choice to seize the Choice Band, Emboar is a good Wallbreaker,he can beat big damage with its ability Reckless and more damage recoil are boosted, he has a good bulk and tank some attack like those of Magearna, Heatran, Mega Scizor, Mega T-Tar, Weavile, Mega Char Y, Tangrowht,... Anyway thanks to the Band he can destroy the Big Wall likes Celesteela, Mega Sableye, Toxapex, Chansey,... Well there is another option to play with Scarf he can outspeed the 120 base stat max but the damage will be less good.

This time I took the calculation damage that might interest you if you take a look.

Calculation Offensive

Assault Vest Magearna
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 602-710 (171.5 - 202.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

56 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 261-307 (72.2 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Differently Set Heatran
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 572-676 (152.1 - 179.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 230-272 (63.7 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Emboar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 400-472 (103.8 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 600-708 (155.8 - 183.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 600-708 (185.7 - 219.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 280-330 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Scizor
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor: 984-1156 (286.8 - 337%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 65-77 (18 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO

Mega T-Tar
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 796-940 (233.4 - 275.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 274-324 (75.9 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Weavile
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 1600-1888 (569.3 - 671.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 158-186 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO

Mega Charizard Y
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 416-490 (140 - 164.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 216-255 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar in Sun: 182-214 (50.4 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and the calculation of damage face on the Wall...

Calculation Damage by the Wall

Mega Sableye
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Sableye-Mega: 280-330 (92.4 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Celesteela
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 582-686 (146.2 - 172.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Chansey
252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 822-968 (116.9 - 137.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Toxapex
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 206-244 (67.7 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Clefable
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 327-385 (83.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mew
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Mew: 322-381 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Quagsire
252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 249-294 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I know that I have problems to express myself anyway I do the best possible, i think it will have a niche in OU i hope that you to more I do not believe that it will not pass there cause that expresses me badly. : '(

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Well I want this set to be nominate, the time that i had to do for first time did not know pass.If there is something that is not going to say it.

I nominate Emboar to C-

I was thinking about a particular choice to seize the Choice Scarf, Emboar can surpass with the Choice Scarf the 120 Base Stat max.He can beat big damage with its ability Reckless and more damage recoil are doubled, it is a good Fighting spam it's a good revenger killer behind, he has a good bulk and tank some attack like those of Magearna, Heatran, Celesteela, Mega Scizor, Toxapex, Mega T-Tar, Weavile, Mega Char Y, Tangrowht, and Volcarona.What feared it can have more counter for example:The other Scarf Chomp, Lele, and Keldeo he can outspeed this mon. And Specs Ash Gren he outspeed barley Emboar Scarf seen with it's 122 Base stat before the Battle Bond.

This time I took the calculation damage that might interest you if you take a look.

Calculation

Assault Vest Magearna
252 Atk Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 402-474 (114.5 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO
56 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 261-307 (72.2 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Differently Set Heatran
252 Atk Emboar Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 384-452 (102.1 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 230-272 (63.7 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Emboar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 400-472 (103.8 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 76-90 (21 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Emboar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 400-472 (123.8 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 280-330 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Defensive Celesteela
252 Atk Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 356-420 (89.4 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 356-420 (89.4 - 105.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 92-108 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Mega Scizor
252 Atk Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 516-612 (150.4 - 178.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 65-77 (18 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO

Toxapex
252 Atk Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 126-150 (41.4 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 126-150 (41.4 - 49.3%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 150-176 (41.5 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mega T-Tar
252 Atk Emboar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 532-628 (156 - 184.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 274-324 (75.9 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Weavile
252 Atk Emboar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 1072-1264 (381.4 - 449.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 158-186 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO

Mega Charizard Y
252 Atk Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 278-328 (93.6 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 278-328 (93.6 - 110.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 216-255 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar in Sun: 182-214 (50.4 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I know that I have problems to express myself anyway I do the best possible, i think it will have a niche in OU i hope that you to more I do not believe that it will not pass there cause that expresses me badly. : '(

Not sure how I feel about that. Just because it beats some of the steel types doesn't mean much. What does it have over Scarf Infernape (The other Fire/Fighting type that can be used) other than slight damage increase? Taking 48.7% from a Toxapex isn't winning any awards in the bulk area. Not only that but you're meant to show replays on a Pokemon that is Unranked at the moment to make them higher and show what's changed. I haven't seen anything that's changed for this mon recently from your post. It's always been able to do that damage to Toxapex and bulky steels. I might as well suggest Darmanitan can be used at a C- now as that has Earthquake for Toxapex and hits harder and is slightly faster (Also Scarf Darmanitan is the set I'm talking about and is garbage)

BTW the fact that it didn't get a KO means that replay is showing how awful it is. Plus you should of gone for Giga Drain, not Knock Off and your score on the ladder is terrible.

 

[wheitron]

Perhaps M scizor to A? With the rise of Kyurem Koko and lefties landorus T being a huge staple just makes this thing to be a huge bulky setup sweeper and pivot, as well as a good utility mon, becuz while it has counters, it can either cripple them with koff or just spam uturn to bring in powerfull wallbreakers while cheaping at opponents check with hazards and/or uturn damage. Defensivly, it decently checks boltbeam magearna, pivots into kyurem B, lele ( HP fire caution), sets up on def/ scarf landorus T, unless u running crazy hp fire in which case yh .... ur insane, sets up on clef, which is like top 5 usage atm, sets on latios.... this mon imo is crazy good and i think it deserves a rise.

Btw landot not being helmet allows scizor to not get cheaped while killing it, making revenge killing harder, and basicly helping turn spam

 

[LORD HELIX 65]

Gyarados: B+ to B-
Gyarados is in a really bad spot right now. Mega Venusaur is very popular, Electric types like Tapu Koko are thriving, and the ban of arena trap resulted in a surge of usage for Mega Diancie. It is also very prone to status like will-o-wisp and toxic, which can stop its sweep in its tracks. It also is weak to stealth rocks, which is a common entry hazard in the meta, and got even more comment post arena trap ban. Dragonite is being used more as an alternate DD user and Gyarados is struggling to keep up, figuratively and literally. It is outpassed by anything over 81 speed and practically every scarfer in the tier. While DD can remidy this a bit, taunt can destroy this strategy. Definitely needs a drop.

 

[IQMathlete]

Gyarados: B+ to B-
Gyarados is in a really bad spot right now. Mega Venusaur is very popular, Electric types like Tapu Koko are thriving, and the ban of arena trap resulted in a surge of usage for Mega Diancie. It is also very prone to status like will-o-wisp and toxic, which can stop its sweep in its tracks. It also is weak to stealth rocks, which is a common entry hazard in the meta, and got even more comment post arena trap ban. Dragonite is being used more as an alternate DD user and Gyarados is struggling to keep up, figuratively and literally. It is outpassed by anything over 81 speed and practically every scarfer in the tier. While DD can remidy this a bit, taunt can destroy this strategy. Definitely needs a drop.

I...feel like you've never used Gyarados before. Its niche is, iirc, DD+SSSS. While Dragonite outclassing it is an issue, everything else you listed is, quite frankly, rather incorrect. SSSS smashes Venu, Diancie is outsped after a DD, and Electric types like Koko are hit with EQ.
In addition, Gyarados has a few tricks up its sleeve that Dragonite can't match. It isn't massively crippled by SR, which Nite is (Multiscale broken). It itself can use Taunt to set up on the likes of Clefable and Toxapex. And yes, while it does wish it could run both EQ and Taunt, you could argue that Dragonite has an even steeper 4MSS issue, as it wants all of Espeed, Fire Punch, EQ, and sometimes Dragon STAB. Plus, Dragonite is slower :P. Also, Gyarados has Moxie, which can be very handy for snowballing.
While I'm not really opposed to a Gyarados drop, I feel like your reasoning was rather faulty.

 

[volx757]

I'm opposed to a gyara drop, especially 2 sub ranks, there have been no meta shifts that really affected gyarados lately that I can think of. Gyara may be one of the few mons that wasn't directly impacted by dug leaving. Gyara has been one of the most consistent mons of this gen. It's never been quite good enough to land in the A ranks, because it does need to find it's opening to get that DD off, and people will try very hard to prevent that, but it's been at the top of B because when it gets going it's a monster.

I don't see how gyara is outclassed by dragonite. If a comparison is to be made it would be between salamence and gyara, because SSSS + Moxie. When checks are weakened or removed, +1 gyara can sweep with ease; this is true of all sweepers tho. With flyinium-z and moxie, you don't even need to make sure all checks are removed, because someone is gonna die from +1 SSSS (unless you waste on a celesteela or something), and then you're at +2, and the snowball is very hard to stop. Not even MMaw's priority can revenge it after rocks if it didn't take any other prior dmg.
It's defensive typing is wayy better than salamence and dnite (doesn't have to fear ice beam or lando trying to get an initimidate drop + helmet + hp ice in to stop the sweep). It's speed tier is fine. There is a small set of mons that outspeed and are dangerous to a +1 gyara, and they are all well known easy-to-read threats.
Gyara isn't the best sweeper in the tier, but it's a very good sweeper nonetheless. B+ rank (always on the brink of A- in my head lol) suits it.

 

[wheitron]

I'm opposed to a gyara drop, especially 2 sub ranks, there have been no meta shifts that really affected gyarados lately that I can think of. Gyara may be one of the few mons that wasn't directly impacted by dug leaving. Gyara has been one of the most consistent mons of this gen. It's never been quite good enough to land in the A ranks, because it does need to find it's opening to get that DD off, and people will try very hard to prevent that, but it's been at the top of B because when it gets going it's a monster.

I don't see how gyara is outclassed by dragonite. If a comparison is to be made it would be between salamence and gyara, because SSSS + Moxie. When checks are weakened or removed, +1 gyara can sweep with ease; this is true of all sweepers tho. With flyinium-z and moxie, you don't even need to make sure all checks are removed, because someone is gonna die from +1 SSSS (unless you waste on a celesteela or something), and then you're at +2, and the snowball is very hard to stop. Not even MMaw's priority can revenge it after rocks if it didn't take any other prior dmg.
It's defensive typing is wayy better than salamence and dnite (doesn't have to fear ice beam or lando trying to get an initimidate drop + helmet + hp ice in to stop the sweep). It's speed tier is fine. There is a small set of mons that outspeed and are dangerous to a +1 gyara, and they are all well known easy-to-read threats.
Gyara isn't the best sweeper in the tier, but it's a very good sweeper nonetheless. B+ rank (always on the brink of A- in my head lol) suits it.

Agreed 100%, Gyarados is still a huge treat and no VR change afected him whatsoever, its a treat to bulky teams with taunt and a treat to Ofensive teams due to its almost perfect coverege in SSSS+Water Stab and snowballing power, as well as a good typing to help him vs most revenge killers in the tier, Stay B+

 

[Skuntank3800]

Gyarados: B+ to B-
Gyarados is in a really bad spot right now. Mega Venusaur is very popular, Electric types like Tapu Koko are thriving, and the ban of arena trap resulted in a surge of usage for Mega Diancie. It is also very prone to status like will-o-wisp and toxic, which can stop its sweep in its tracks. It also is weak to stealth rocks, which is a common entry hazard in the meta, and got even more comment post arena trap ban. Dragonite is being used more as an alternate DD user and Gyarados is struggling to keep up, figuratively and literally. It is outpassed by anything over 81 speed and practically every scarfer in the tier. While DD can remidy this a bit, taunt can destroy this strategy. Definitely needs a drop.

I'm not sure what you think about drop Gyarados already with DD +1 and in more Supersonic Skystrike do it anway pretty scared for Mega Venusaur.With his Water STAB of Gyarados Waterfall is extremely dangerous on Mega Diancie after the set up, well with the set up of Drangon Dance he outspeed the Electrick-Type and Earthquake destroy anyway Tapu Koko, and Mega Manectric well Zapdos does not touch by Earthquake because by immunite with Flying-Type it remains his counter. :/ In summary I do not see why you want drop out that Gyarados is a very good sweeper is what I think anyway.

Agreed 100%, Gyarados is still a huge treat and no VR change afected him whatsoever, its a treat to bulky teams with taunt and a treat to Ofensive teams due to its almost perfect coverege in SSSS+Water Stab and snowballing power, as well as a good typing to help him vs most revenge killers in the tier, Stay B+

I totally agree with the choice Gyarados Stay B+

 

[Gary]

Late as fuck but here it is. Look out for a new update tomorrow!

 

[power]

I know there's a ranking update coming out today, but since Excadrill probably isn't having its position updated I just wanted to post my thoughts on this Pokemon.

Excadrill has transformed itself from a niche shitmon to THE face of Hyper Offense in SM OU. Being featured on over a dozen builds, including Gondra HO (Made it to STour finals until the user went to bed - not just an OLT Ladder Team), Empo HO, Kanto HO, and probably a billion xtrashine builds too, Excadrill's immense surge in popularity over the last weeks reflects not only ladder trends but a meta shift towards HO builds. HO went from a fringe playstyle several months ago to a surprisingly consistent playstyle in SM OU today, and a lot of this was spearheaded by Sash Drill. But Excadrill's continued to sit in the same rank.

The ranking team recognizes that Hyper Offense is a force to be reckoned with in the current metagame. Sash Greninja (Suicide Lead dual hazards) is the main factor keeping Greninja A+ at the moment. So why is the true face of HO lounging in B?

B -> B+

 

[JadeBot V0.2]

Mimikyu has been gaining a lot of popularity lately. The playstyle that it fits best on, HO, is extremely prevalent right now. There are so many teams with this thing thanks to it being so easy to get in with 3 immunities, and it almost always gets a KO, if not 2.

Mimikyu B -> B+

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Gonna echo sedertz's nom of Excadrill to B+, as it's phenomenal in this metagame. HO is rising and it provides both rocks and spin for it, so as a suicide lead it's the best available. It's shown itself to be a great scarf mon as well, with the metagame becoming slower and it providing Spin and a great typing that beats the rising Fairies in this meta. Definitely rise.

Also gonna say that Mawile should go to A+. The fall of Dugtrio and many of the fires is incredible for this mon. Pretty much every stall team is demolished by its raw power, especially with Skarmory beginning to fall somewhat off. Magearna is also beginning to fall off a little bit, which is incredible for it. Steel/Fairy overall is just a much better typing than it was a while back. Heatran is pretty bad for it but it can be handled by teammates.

As for Magearna dropping, I'm not so sold just yet. The double dance set is still incredible in this metagame, and the AV set really appreciates dugtrio being gone as it can now freely pivot and not have to worry about prediction so much. This also applies for the Shift Gear set, as ScarfTrio could easily revenge it. Yeah, defensive answers are rising, but it still has an incredible amount of ways to sweep and unlike Volcarona, each set plays differently and many have different checks/counters. It's not as good as it once was but it doesn't need to drop just yet.

 

[robopoke]

B -> B+

In a metagame with Stealth Rocks and Leech Seed everywhere, (imo) broken multiple layers of Spikes where even mons with Regenerator take more damage than they can recover, Magic Guard is a blessing on Reuniclus. This mon has proven again on how many mons it just sets up against and wins. Usually you only need to remove that one mon but you can be creative and use moves to lure those mons yourself:

- Z-Flash Cannon for Unaware Clefable
- Energy Ball for an accurate attack against Greninja
- Thunder for the high paralysis chance for example against speedcreeping Toxapex so it cannot Haze on you before you attack
- Acid Armor to 6-0 some HObuilds turn 1
- Knock Off as an utility move tat can help against Marowak and mons that heavily rely on Lefties like Heatran to ensure it cannot come in on Psyshocks forever

It is not a rarity that you will lose if your Toxapex does not outspeed this mon or if you do not have enough hands in the air to pray for a crit (SO Leftiez lol).

It is bulky enough to eat Z-Wild Charge from Koko and can recover off the damage even if you speedcrep Toxapex by multiple points. Mindgames occur however, if Koko has Taunt. Also the best mon to use to prevent Celesteela from healing because Grasstypes like Mega Venu do not enjoy taking hazards multiple times.

I also feel like the creativity for Reuniclus does not stop here. Infestation for example as a last move sounds very interesting to me. Trapping a target, preventing a double and having guaranteed chipdmg can be reasons to justify its use.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

B -> B+

In a metagame with Stealth Rocks and Leech Seed everywhere, (imo) broken multiple layers of Spikes where even mons with Regenerator take more damage than they can recover, Magic Guard is a blessing on Reuniclus. This mon has proven again on how many mons it just sets up against and wins. Usually you only need to remove that one mon but you can be creative and use moves to lure those mons yourself:

- Z-Flash Cannon for Unaware Clefable
- Energy Ball for an accurate attack against Greninja
- Thunder for the high paralysis chance for example against speedcreeping Toxapex so it cannot Haze on you before you attack
- Acid Armor to 6-0 some HObuilds turn 1
- Knock Off as an utility move tat can help against Marowak and mons that heavily rely on Lefties like Heatran to ensure it cannot come in on Psyshocks forever

It is not a rarity that you will lose if your Toxapex does not outspeed this mon or if you do not have enough hands in the air to pray for a crit (SO Leftiez lol).

It is bulky enough to eat Z-Wild Charge from Koko and can recover off the damage even if you speedcrep Toxapex by multiple points. Mindgames occur however, if Koko has Taunt. Also the best mon to use to prevent Celesteela from healing because Grasstypes like Mega Venu do not enjoy taking hazards multiple times.

I also feel like the creativity for Reuniclus does not stop here. Infestation for example as a last move sounds very interesting to me. Trapping a target, preventing a double and having guaranteed chipdmg can be reasons to justify its use.

Hey, just wanted to say you didn't mention shadow ball for alowak and bulky psychic types.

Reuniclus could rise. The rise of spikes and tspikes makes magic guard much more valuable. There is also a rise in fightings and offensive psychic types, both of which lose to Reuniclus. Mageaena is falling off a bit, which is fantastic for it. Stall is also falling off, so sableye-mega is as well. Z-Thunder is also incredible vs Celes/Pex/Venu, and with the right prediction the entire core is ripped apart. It's a bit mu based with gren bros and Tran rising, along with ho, but it's still a fantastic balance breaker.

 

[Gary]

RANKING UPDATE

Rises

A- ---> A

A- ---> A

B+ ---> A-

B ---> B+

B- ---> B

C+ ---> B-

C ---> C+

C ---> C+

Drops

A+ ---> A

B+ ---> B

C+ ---> C-

Reasonings

• Interesting thing to note, this is the highest rank Kartana has ever achieved since the beginning of SM, where it started in A-, and dropped all the way to B-. That being said, Kartana has certainly made it obvious that it is no longer a Pokemon to joke around with, and it is definitely a big threat in the current metagame. Its SD set is capable of shredding through balance teams with its insanely absurd Attack stat, and with the massive resurgence in Ferrothorn usage, Kartana gets plenty of opportunities to come in and set up. Fightinium or Darkinium Z allow it to blow back certain Pokemon that may trouble it, such as Mega Scizor, Celesteela, Zapdos, and Mega Venusaur respectively. Most of the Pokemon that switch into it, have to be wary of being OHKOed by a +2 coverage or STAB move, just because of how insanely strong it is. Scarf is still a good set to, but not the reason it rose.
• Tyranitar is back to remind us that it's still top tier even in SM. Although it's much less versatile than it was last gen, Choice Band Crunch and Stone Edge are both practically impossible to switch into safely, and with Dugtrio gone, T-tar can finally properly pressure stall without having to worry about that stupid piece of shit in the back. Its trapping abilities are also really great atm, with Latios usage at an all time high, CM Mega Latias being a pretty big threat, and supporting the likes of Mega Lopunny.
• Speaking of which, Mega Lopunny is starting to show its face again after its rocky start. Pex's are starting to run way more SpD investment which helps Lopunny break through it with hazards up, Mew usage has dropped slightly, and hazard stacking is an extremely popular practice on most teams, which Lopunny fits perfectly on. Encore + PuP sets can be very annoying vs Mew and Clef builds because it prevents them from being able to retaliate with an attacking move or Wisp, therefore making them set up fodder for PuP. Fake Out is also useful on it too, albeit less common than last gen, for its ability to break Greninja's Sash. Its Speed stat in general is very crucial with Koko and Ash Gren both being very common, so it makes a good choice for a wide variety of builds.
• Hoopa-U has benefited quite a bit from the Dugtrio ban. While it still isn't a reliable stallbreaker with most stalls carrying Weavile these days, its ability to pressure fat teams is much more effective post ban. Choice Band in particular is quite good, with AV Magearna no longer being a reliable switch-in, coverage for other Fairies like Clefable, and Hyperspace Fury being extremely spammable with the ability to go through Heatran's Subs as well as Steela's Protect. It's just a very strong wallbreaker that finds more success at threatening fat than before duggy was banned.
• Zard-X has seen decent success recently with the decrease in fat Lando in favor for more offensive variants, as well as Pokemon like Celesteela, Ferrothorn, and Mew being basically a free switch-in for it. While DD has seen a bit of success, 3 attacks Roost is easily standing out the most atm, with it capitalizing at Zards ability to spam Flare Blitz without having to worry about the recoil as much, while still having coverage for Heatran, Tyranitar, and Toxapex.
• Nothing has really changed recently with Victini, but we felt B- was more appropriate for its decent sweeping capabilities
• Hydreigon saw some usage in OLT with blunder, as well as a decent amount of ladder play. Hydreigon is a unique breaker because of access to Fire Blast which prevents Magearna from switching into it for free, while having very powerful Dracos and Dark STAB is obviously good as well.
• Nihilego rose simply because T-Spikes are insanely good atm and it can provide decent role compression with a Scarf. Specs and lead sets are garbage tho.
• Mega Diancie dropped just because it often has issues finding opportunities to come in for free due to its poor bulk and mediocre defensive typing. While its offenses are fantastic, Mega Diancie can have issues 1v1ing certain offensive Pokemon such as Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, and offensive Landorus-T without significant prior damage. While it's still one of the best Megas in the tier, we don't feel like it's currently as good as the other Pokemon in A+.
• Bisharp sees very little usage as of now. It was mostly used on Webs because of its ability to deter removal, but Webs is practically non existent with Diancie in the tier. It just doesn't find much use on many teams because its niche is pretty specific and only really fits on some HOs.
• Chandelure has lost its main niche with the banning of Dugtrio, as an offensive Zard-Y check that isn't trapped by it. Not only is Duggy banned, but Zard-Y usage has dropped significantly as well, which gives people less reason to use it, and now faces much more competition from Gengar as an offensive Ghost-type, especially with it being 100% more prone to being trapped by Tyranitar. We still felt like despite losing its main niche, being an offensive Ghost-type with a powerful secondary STAB is still good enough to where it might find use on bulky offenses as a wallbreaker, albeit niche as fuck.

Council Slate

Heatran A+ to S: All but one disagreed for now
Mega Diancie A+ to A: All agreed except one
Celesteela A+ to A: All said fuck no except the one who brought it up lol
Greninja A+ to A: jelq
Kartana A- to A: All said yes or didn't care
Tyranitar A- to A: All agreed
Bisharp B+ to B: All agreed except one
Mega Lopunny B+ to A-: All agreed or were neutral
Hoopa-U B to B+: All agreed or didn't care
Zard X B- to B: All agreed
Chandelure C+ to C-: All agreed
Victini C+ to B-: All agreed or didn't care
Hydreigon C to C+: Mostly everyone agreed
Nihilego C to C+: All agreed except one

Discussion Slate:

S ---> A+

B+ ---> A-

B ---> B+

 

[Deleted User 400951]

YOOOOOOOOO TTAR WENT UP TO A AND BISHARP WENT DOWN TO B MY LIFE IS FULFILLED
Now, for the discussion slate:
I already stated my opinions on Magearna and Excadrill:

Gonna echo sedertz's nom of Excadrill to B+, as it's phenomenal in this metagame. HO is rising and it provides both rocks and spin for it, so as a suicide lead it's the best available. It's shown itself to be a great scarf mon as well, with the metagame becoming slower and it providing Spin and a great typing that beats the rising Fairies in this meta. Definitely rise.

Also gonna say that Mawile should go to A+. The fall of Dugtrio and many of the fires is incredible for this mon. Pretty much every stall team is demolished by its raw power, especially with Skarmory beginning to fall somewhat off. Magearna is also beginning to fall off a little bit, which is incredible for it. Steel/Fairy overall is just a much better typing than it was a while back. Heatran is pretty bad for it but it can be handled by teammates.

As for Magearna dropping, I'm not so sold just yet. The double dance set is still incredible in this metagame, and the AV set really appreciates dugtrio being gone as it can now freely pivot and not have to worry about prediction so much. This also applies for the Shift Gear set, as ScarfTrio could easily revenge it. Yeah, defensive answers are rising, but it still has an incredible amount of ways to sweep and unlike Volcarona, each set plays differently and many have different checks/counters. It's not as good as it once was but it doesn't need to drop just yet.

Now, about Magnezone - I'll agree it's much better than before. It can have much more utility outside of trapping steels with Dugtrio gone and it no longer competes as a steel trapper with it (as dug trio trapped magearna a lot better). It's become much better at trapping steels, the main reason it was really worthy of a drop in the past. In addition, it now has a bit more versatility with the new Electrium Z set, so it's not quite as predictable and one-dimensional as it once was. It's pretty good rn and definitely worthy of a rise.

Now, for some other noms:
In general, B+ is kind of a mess right now. There are a lot of mons that are clearly better than the others there. It's not as bad as it was even a week ago but I still feel as though it could be cleaned up.

Gengar should rise up to A-. Many darks are returning, yes, but it still is a rising threat. Magearna isn't what it used to be, and it can still break past with spikes - on the rise with Sash and Ash Greninja getting better. Specs is showing its face again with Lele rising back up, and the specs lele set too. Absorbing toxic spikes is also super helpful vs balance, as t-spikes are proving to be a huge threat once again.

Weavile should also rise up to A-. It's now the face of stall, with its pursuit trapping abilities being greatly appreciated alongside priority too. It appreciates how Magearna is falling off a bit. Lele being specs these means it can't revenge it, making Weavile a bit better. Stall is the main reason why this should rise.

I'm glad that the council also nomad Magnezone to A- too. Just something to clean the B+ rank up.

C+ is also a disaster. There are just far too many mons there that are better or worse than the other ones. It needs to be cleaned up.

Slowbro to C or C- - TURBODERP made this one earlier, credit to him, but Slowbro is just really falling off in this metagame. Darks are rising and slowbro just can't really take hits.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Slowbro: 306-362 (77.6 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If Pursuit doubles in base power on the switch-out, that still leaves it severely dented. In addition, Spikes and especially Toxic Spikes are just terrible for it and ruins many MUs for it. The rise in Electrics like Koko and Magnezone is also super bad. It's been hurt really badly recently and pretty much any good team would much rather take Pex or Mantine as a bulky water. If there are any replays of Slowbro doing well in a tournament setting I might change my mind but unless I see one I'm definitely for a drop.

Gyarados-Mega to B- - This has been on the rise for its ability to absolutely destroy bulkier teams while still being able to sweep in this slower meta with its DD set. Many HOs such as Kantos's ho use this mon and it's put in a ton of work. Definitely deserves a rise.

Breloom to UR - A breaker that struggles with Pex/Celes/Venu is not a good one, even if the core is beginning to fall off a bit. Koko usage is ever-rising, and with that and the amount of Grasses running around, Spore is losing a good bit of its value. Mach Punch is also becoming less valuable with Lele rising. It's pretty much deadweight vs offense at this point, and considering how offense - especially HO - is thriving in this metagame, it has to rely on a balance and stall matchup it simply doesn't have. It's been pretty bad for a while now, and it needs to just get unranked.

 

[absalon555]

Late as fuck but here it is. Look out for a new update tomorrow!

Hey man this is great, I was actually looking for something like this.

I´m new here so I would like to have all the info that you can provide me with. Like, all this people know when there is going to be a new update but I´m severely lost in this forum, im 23 and its actually my first forum ever so I hope you guys dont mind giving me some tips and tricks to understand all this. Also english is not my native language so I apologize if I mess it up, ask me or tell me if I write something you people can´t get. :)

 

[cityscapes]

Hey man this is great, I was actually looking for something like this.

I´m new here so I would like to have all the info that you can provide me with. Like, all this people know when there is going to be a new update but I´m severely lost in this forum, im 23 and its actually my first forum ever so I hope you guys dont mind giving me some tips and tricks to understand all this. Also english is not my native language so I apologize if I mess it up, ask me or tell me if I write something you people can´t get. :)

hi welcome to smogon!

first off this would probably be better asked in the simple questions/answers thread located here

also there are useful introductions to smogon out there. this one would be what i would recommend first, the other threads in the subforum might help too

in regards to your question there's usually a vr update every friday.

if you have any other questions you can ask in the ou discord

hope you enjoy your stay!

wonder how many people i just ninjad hehe

 

[BlisseyandChansey123]

I just wanted to go through the nomination of Magearna dropping from S.

Although Magearna has started to fall off a little bit, I don't think it is time to drop it to A+ quite yet. Although the ban of Arena Trap did affect Magearna in a negative way, it also meant that it lost one of its counters, that could reliably come in, live an attack because of sash, and kill Shift Gear Magearna with earthquake, which hindered Magearna's sweeping ability quite a lot. Magearna now has a much better matchup vs stall because of Arena Trap Ban. Although it can be argued that stall is falling off now and it doesn't matter, it is still one of the playstyles that Magearna has quite a lot of trouble with.

Magearna destroys hyper offense once set up, with thunderbolt for greninja, focus blast for kartana, flash cannon for Mimikyu, etc. There are still very few Scarfers who can revenge kill Magearna because of the speed tier she hits, a massive 502 speed. Maybe something like a Scarf Infernape could, but he is so niche that it hardly matters. Against bulky offense, Magearna has a fairly good matchup because of its amazing coverage that landed it in S in the first Place. There are only few other prevalent team styles that trouble magearna, due to Aurora Aurora veil falling off because of Mega Diancie and Kartana. Aurora Veil makes Magearna unable to land almost any 1hitKoes, which makes her special attack still fairly weak without a Soul Heart boost. AV Magearna is still good, and does its job, although it can be pressured my hyper offense, which is really good right now. Trick Room is still really good because of the rise of Hyper Offense, and it will outspeed almost everything in Hyper Offense due to HO having pokemon that are in general very fast and their base speed tier is about in the 80-100+ range.

Magearna still gives such a huge headache when it finds an oppurtunity to setup, it is still definitely the most threatining sweeper in the tier that has few Hard counters. Magearna still defines the OU metagame in my opinion. When I think OU, Magearna is still one of those pokemon that I think of first because of its immense influence in the tier and impact on the tier, and Magearna has forced the OU Metagame to adapt to it, and that is one of the qualities that Makes a pokemon S rank, so inconclusion, for all the reasons I have said earlier, Magearna should still stay in S rank.

 

[Albacore]

Yeah, Excadrill is pretty great on HO. Outside of providing really valuable role compression, having a 100% consistent answer to Tapu Koko is really nice since that thing can be an absolute headache for offensive teams to handle. Definitely deserves a rise, it's way more relevant than anything in B and even most of B+ and deserves to rise.

Strongly disagree with Magearna dropping, it's still an absolutely immense threat which can very easily adapt to metagame changes, and isn't really on the same level as anything in A+ in terms of how effective and reliable it is. Any notion that it has gotten worse is mostly due to the fact that people are getting used to Focus Blast being less and less common, and eventally people are going to go back to running that and it'll be as good as it ever was.

I'd also to make a nom which might seem pretty extreme but I personally think is completely warranted, and that is Hawlucha to B+ rank. Hawlucha's rise in viability due to the discovery of the Electric Seed set is pretty recent, so I totally understand why it's only B- rank currently. But it's still a lot better than its current rank indicates imo, and that's coming from someone who was initially very skeptical of it before I actually tried it out. It's mostly known for its role on Rain, but you can use it on pretty much any offensive team with Tapu Koko on it and it can function as a very effective win condition. It's a bit like Mimikyu in the sense that it can kinda be used as an emergency check to powerful threats, but I personally think it's even better than that since it's harder to stop once it's set up and has a much easier time breaking through physical walls thanks to the raw power of HJK. It also provides HO with really valuable stuff defensively, such as a Ground immunity and a way to not just lose to Rain, which is extremely popular at the moment.

You've also got the option of Psychic Seed with Tapu Lele which is pretty decent if you want to be able to eat up Ash-Gren Water Shurikens and set up on stuff like Keldeo and even unboosted Magearna if it's at full health, or if your team just benefits from Lele more.

The fact that you're required to run a Tapu isn't really a big deal to me since they're already amongst the best Pokemon in the metagame, and Tapu Koko in particular has excellent synergy with it. It's definitely more viable and relevant than anything in B- or even B.

Another nom I think might be controversial is Celesteela to A rank. Now, Celesteela is a fantastic Pokemon, but there's just so much competition for the role of bulky steel, and unless I really need a Ground immunity, Celesteela is rarely going to be my first choice if I need one. Obviously, Magearna is the #1 thing you think of when it comes to Steel-types in this tier, and that's why it's S rank and Celesteela is A+. But I also feel like it doesn't really match up to Heatran or Ferrothorn, which I find way more splashable since they generally provide more utility than just Leech Seed, and because of how important it is to have a proper answer to CM Magearna nowadays (Steela deals with Fightingnium better, but it's become a far less common set than CM). It is arguably more durable than these two, but just staying alive isn't the only thing you expect from a Pokemon.

On top of that Steela's vulerability to common threats like Tapu Koko, Heatran, Zygarde and Volcarona can make life pretty difficult for it, regardless of how good it is at walling Tapu Lele and Diancie. Autotomize is still pretty damn good, especially since no-one prepares for then, but they're not exactly A+ worthy especially since it relies on admittedly pretty weak moves. I think it's just a step below the rest of A+ in terms of its influence on the metagame and how easy it is to fit on teams.

I would also drop Tangrowth to A-, it's still a very durable wall that beats a few key threats, but just super easy to take advantage of. It's not that hard to switch into especially since so many things carry a Z Crystal and can just eat up Knock Offs all day, stuff like Volcarona and Kyurem-B can just use it as food. I don't really see how you can justify putting it above MVenu which is just a lot more effective in the current metagame and benefits from being able to absorb TSpikes, be slightly more offensively threatening, and cripple stuff with Leech Seed and Sleep Powder, which Tang just can't do with AV. I don't have too much to say about this one, it's just not really an A rank mon right now.

 

[Empo]

Magearna should stay S. Its typing and stats combined to its movepool make this pokemon broken; thanks to shift gear it can find a way to sweep in lategame, setting up in front of pokemon that don't really touch mage or just that can't ohko it, like mew, clefable, latios, scarfkartana, just much stuff, i'm not gonna say every pokemon. As we all know, it even gets calm mind, indeed double dance became more popular in the last months or so, especially during olt; as i said before, it can find some setup fodder like mew (especially in late game, when you manage to remove its counters / hard checks) and you can easily win sweeping and cleaning the path. Sure this pokemon isn't unbeatable, but i personally wouldn't put it in A+ since it actually restricts teambuilding imo. Not to mention its very good movepool, combining fairy and steel stab with boltbeam coverage, but it's also a nice lele check, which is another setup fodder for magearna. Leftovers / Z Move + Shift Gear isn't the only set though. In builds where you need a solid Lele check or counter since Specs Lele actually restricts you to put a steel in every team (or almost), Assault Vest is also very cool, as it's able to tank some big threats of the actual metagame and it's also able to force them out. It's able to switch not only into psychic types like Kazam or Lele, but also into threats in the metagame such as Greninja or Ash one, Koko (if it doesn't carry Z Wild Charge), Kyurem, and so on.

I would also like to see this pokemon rising. I don't know why this is only C+ when in my opinion it's very good at wallbreaking and stallbreaking, especially the second one due to Mold Breaker. What makes this pokemon good is just Dragon Dance, since it can click sub on most of the bulky things that can't really touch it under the substitute like alomomola or pex, and can proceed to setup with Dragon Dance or just attack. What can I say, I think this mon can destroy balance if played well. You can even give up Waterfall for Earthquake if you want to run DD + Sub + 2 atks, so that you make sure to nuke koko at full and nuke Rotom-W, although this pokemon isn't used at all in this tier; EQ also hits harder steel types in general like Magearna, Mawile, etc. Finally, I don't think people really prepare a lot against this. In most of the teams, the only water resist is like Toxapex, or something bulky like that, that is easily setup fodder for Gyarados. Even if pex carries haze, Gyara (if sub, so you don't risk Toxic or Scald burn) will be able to win the 1v1. I think B- / B would be cool for M-Gyarados.

 

[robopoke]

Yeah, Excadrill is pretty great on HO. Outside of providing really valuable role compression, having a 100% consistent answer to Tapu Koko is really nice since that thing can be an absolute headache for offensive teams to handle. Definitely deserves a rise, it's way more relevant than anything in B and even most of B+ and deserves to rise.

Strongly disagree with Magearna dropping, it's still an absolutely immense threat which can very easily adapt to metagame changes, and isn't really on the same level as anything in A+ in terms of how effective and reliable it is. Any notion that it has gotten worse is mostly due to the fact that people are getting used to Focus Blast being less and less common, and eventally people are going to go back to running that and it'll be as good as it ever was.

I'd also to make a nom which might seem pretty extreme but I personally think is completely warranted, and that is Hawlucha to B+ rank. Hawlucha's rise in viability due to the discovery of the Electric Seed set is pretty recent, so I totally understand why it's only B- rank currently. But it's still a lot better than its current rank indicates imo, and that's coming from someone who was initially very skeptical of it before I actually tried it out. It's mostly known for its role on Rain, but you can use it on pretty much any offensive team with Tapu Koko on it and it can function as a very effective win condition. It's a bit like Mimikyu in the sense that it can kinda be used as an emergency check to powerful threats, but I personally think it's even better than that since it's harder to stop once it's set up and has a much easier time breaking through physical walls thanks to the raw power of HJK. It also provides HO with really valuable stuff defensively, such as a Ground immunity and a way to not just lose to Rain, which is extremely popular at the moment.

You've also got the option of Psychic Seed with Tapu Lele which is pretty decent if you want to be able to completely block out priority for a few turns, as well as set up on stuff like Keldeo and even unboosted Magearna if it's at full health, or if your team just benefits from Lele more.

The fact that you're required to run a Tapu isn't really a big deal to me since they're already amongst the best Pokemon in the metagame, and Tapu Koko in particular has excellent synergy with it. It's definitely more viable and relevant than anything in B- or even B.

Another nom I think might be controversial is Celesteela to A rank. Now, Celesteela is a fantastic Pokemon, but there's just so much competition for the role of bulky steel, and unless I really need a Ground immunity, Celesteela is rarely going to be my first choice if I need one. Obviously, Magearna is the #1 thing you think of when it comes to Steel-types in this tier, and that's why it's S rank and Celesteela is A+. But I also feel like it doesn't really match up to Heatran or Ferrothorn, which I find way more splashable since they generally provide more utility than just Leech Seed, and because of how important it is to have a proper answer to CM Magearna nowadays (Steela deals with Fightingnium better, but it's become a far less common set than CM). It is arguably more durable than these two, but just staying alive isn't the only thing you expect from a Pokemon.

On top of that Steela's vulerability to common threats like Tapu Koko, Heatran, Zygarde and Volcarona can make life pretty difficult for it, regardless of how good it is at walling Tapu Lele and Diancie. Autotomize is still pretty damn good, especially since no-one prepares for then, but they're not exactly A+ worthy especially since it relies on admittedly pretty weak moves. I think it's just a step below the rest of A+ in terms of its influence on the metagame and how easy it is to fit on teams.

I would also drop Tangrowth to A-, it's still a very durable wall that beats a few key threats, but just super easy to take advantage of. It's not that hard to switch into especially since so many things carry a Z Crystal and can just eat up Knock Offs all day, stuff like Volcarona and Kyurem-B can just use it as food. I don't really see how you can justify putting it above MVenu which is just a lot more effective in the current metagame and benefits from being able to absorb TSpikes, be slightly more offensively threatening, and cripple stuff with Leech Seed and Sleep Powder, which Tang just can't do with AV. I don't have too much to say about this one, it's just not really an A rank mon right now.

I agree with your post on Hawlucha and Exca but disagree with Celesteela drop. Yes, Celesteela only Leech Seeds but it dodges broken Spikes but it should stay A+ as long Landorus-T stays so relevant. Steela also usually uses mons like Greninja as partner for Spikes, Toxapex or Nihilego as Tspiker and now you cannot switch into Leech Seeds with all the broken hazards while your own Steela dodges Spikes. You said only staying alive is not what you want but do not forget you do that while chipping with Seeds, forcing switches, forcing additional hazard damage. I am pretty sure that Celesteela on the right team is one of the top 2 mons in your team that will have done the most damage percentwise.

Also you said it deals with Diancie and Lele but loses to common threats like Koko, Heatran and Zygarde. Yo, this is just to be expected that you can switch into some threats and get forced out against other threats so I do not understand this argument. There are many many mons Celesteela can deal with like Mimikyu, Pinsir, Dragonite, Clefable, Mega Zam etc. It looks like you want to compare Celesteela only to A+ mons and realize that it loses against more A+ threats than it wins against and use this as a dropargument?

Also how are Celesteelas atks on an offensive Set weak? As you said the offensive Sets are less viable anyway but you should try out Physical Celesteela with Sitrus Berry and use Acrobatics, Heavy Slam, Earthquake. Very strong moves because of their Base Power and Adamant nature.

Also a slight mistake: Hawlucha in Psychic Terrain can still be hit with priority attacks sadly because it is not on the ground. The good thing mostly is that mons that counter Electric Seed variants like Fini and Clefable now cannot kill you with Moonblast.

 

[wheitron]

Disagreed 100% with mageaerna to A+, while it has fallen a little bit apart, its still a huge headache, specially late game, and still defines the meta a lot, the fact that camel, nape and gastro are ranked is partly ( in huge part actually) cuz of magearna, ferro being ranked so high is another consequence of magearna being a top tier treat ( putted him apart cuz its main reason to rise was not magearna, it was the fact it walls many powerfull breakers atm such ash ninja pré transf and after if spd, koko, lele locked into psychic and MANY others) all this just to show how much it afects the meta and influences on VR, and btw AV is still amazing. Remain in S

About an Exca rise, this mon is the face of HO, just get this one up to B+

About Tang Steela, i feel like tang is stilk real good, but not as good as it was b4, with the meta getting fatter and fatter, tang is having a hard time not being hazards fodder for bulky mons, and in general a momentum drag, i think it should go to A-. Bout Steela i am unsure, this mon is real good, but venusteela balances have been falling in usage, and so is steela, still as said not shure.

Hawlucha should rise, with mews and zap usage going down, and the rise of fighting weak pokemon ( just take a look at last rises) hawlucha just gets better at sweeping, that is further improved when HO is prevalent, as hawlucha can serve as speed control for these teams or as a powerfull win con against em. Raise the Mexican to B+

Reuniclus : i never really used it, never really faced it ( actually once, and it did not do much, as i had dark spam), and am not gonna get into wheter it should rise or nah, not being really into ladder playing too.

Mega Gyara should definitly rise, Gondras HO showed this mons potential, its a ash gren counter in HO ( normally HO can only set up on a choice locked ash instead of swaping in a pokemon on it, then again i am saying transformed) and as a fat team destroyer, demolishing fatter builds due to mold breaker, bulk to set more then once and taunt. Rise to B-

 

[Marigold]

Yes, I'm going to make a nomination that will really make you think. No, this is not a meme post.

unranked => C- (or higher)

Staraptor is a very unique flying type attacker that can use its powerful STABs alone to break through common flying resists and physical pivots/walls. Reckless gives it a more significant boost than one would think for damage calculation, making a ton of 2hko's and ohko's possible. This means that it does not need to rely on z-moves (referencing Talonflame, a common comparison point) to clean or a sub-optimal coverage option (stone edge Pinsir-m/Hawlucha) to break things like Zapdos, a premier common flying attacker wall. It also makes Staraptor a great revenge killer for a ton of offense's biggest nightmares, reliably ohko'ing many threats from full or after rocks with a scarf set.

For a breaker and powerful revenge killer, Staraptor's base 100 speed tier is great. This lets it outspeed essential threats and pivots such as Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, Zygarde, Lando-T, etc... which really makes it all the more effective. If only it had 1 more base speed to revenge Volcarona 100% of the time

"Great, I know what this BL-cursed mon does. How does it fit into the meta?"

With a band set, Staraptor alone is capable of breaking entire Tangrowth(Venusaur)/Celesteela/Toxapex(Fini), Ferrothorn/Gliscor/Clefable, Ferrothorn(Tangrowth)/Mantine/Lando-T, Fini/Scizor/Heatran, and other defensive backbones alone, or can do so with a scarf set as well if Magnezone is partnered with Staraptor, a fantastic duo. Staraptor also reliably revenge kills a plethora of dangerous threats to offensive archetypes such as Lopunny-M, Tapu Koko, Greninja-Ash, Tapu Lele, Zard-Y, etc with no or u-turn chip, and many more such as Gyarados and Dragonite after rocks.

Staraptor also greatly enjoys the reduced usage of rocky helmet Lando-T, as the defensive sets often favor leftovers in order to reliably answer threats such as Zygarde. Defensive Lando-T as a whole has seen reduced usage, in favor of offensive Z-Crystal or Scarf sets. It should be noted that bandraptor 2hko's defensive Lando-t anyway... but this is still an important metagame trend because helmetless Lando means that Staraptor incurs less chip than it already needs to. Many teams rely on Toxapex, defensive Celesteela, Skarmory, Scizor-M, or defensive Tangrowth to be their physical walls, and a Staraptor + Magnezone core strongly punishes that.

Replays or it didn't happen-

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-638445330
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-638460137

Once the Celesteela or whatever flying resist/physical wall faints or gets worn down, teams can find themselves struggling to deal with Staraptor's powerful STABs. I used scarfraptor + magnezone + knock off mawile in these 1600+ elo replays. (And yes, AV zone is supposed to volt switch away from Celesteela after a tbolt. I learned this shortly after lol)

bandraptor calcs

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 189-222 (49.3 - 57.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 270-318 (70.4 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 178-210 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 213-252 (50.7 - 60%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 158-186 (40.9 - 48.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 186-219 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Slowbro: 231-273 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Mew: 288-340 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Scizor-Mega: 190-225 (55.3 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 292-345 (74.3 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

scarfraptor calcs

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 255-301 (90.7 - 107.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 282-333 (100.3 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 306-361 (107.3 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 271-319 (81.8 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 231-273 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 271-321 (91.2 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (dies after tiny chip)

I'd just like to remind you all that I'm nominating Staraptor to be merely ranked for now. Low tier mons have setbacks and some element of opportunity cost, but also have specific and quite usable niches. I believe that Staraptor can actually be ranked higher than C-, but it is clear at the very least that it has a place in OU, being an anti-meta threat thanks to its excellent blend of speed, power, STABs, and coverage when combined with the right support (magnet pull).

 

[Gary]

I'm currently in the process of linking all the Pokemon with their respective onsite analysis. I held off on doing this a while back because not all of them were done, but currently every single Pokemon ranked on this thread has a completed and updated analysis. OU QC makes sure to keep the analysis as current as possible (unlike most tiers jelq) so you shouldn't have to worry about seeing an analysis that talks about 2016 trends or some shit (and if something is way outdated please let me know). This will make it easier for newer players to learn why Pokemon are ranked in their respective ranks, and even for experienced players, it can just make team building more convenient. As of now, all A- and above Pokemon have their analysis linked, but eventually all of the ranks will have theirs linked too.

Enjoy!