Resource SM OU Sets Viability Rankings

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i think we could add double dance magearna somewhere, it's gaining some popularity with the increase of veil offense, and it's pretty decent, of course worse than the other sets, also we may add that stallbreaker lando set(sub+sd+smack down+eq) it's simillar to fly-z, but doesn't take crystal slot
 

power

uh-oh, the game in trouble
Hey buddy, good job with this thread. Looks like you've got your work cut out for you with the last two rounds of updates, so I've tried to make it a bit easier. I only did Pokemon in S-B cause I'm a bit busy and on mobile.

Pretty Obvious just move this to A
Same, except A+
I think only Magic Guard should move to A. Nothing has really changed for unaware, it's still stall specific only and should stay in A-.
Obviously Specs and the other A- set should move to B+, but Scarf can be seen either staying in B or moving to B-. Probably the latter.
Drop specs to B when you move AV to B+
Keep SD B imo when you drop Defog to B+
Get rid of RH and drop Mixed to B+ when you drop it to A. Maybe keep mixed in A- if you really insist, but rh needs to get junked
Obvious what to do.
Do not rise CroCune when VinCune goes to B+. Hell, B- is already really generous for such a mediocre set.
Maybe rise both LO and Subzero? Not sure if we should rank one over the other. Band should stay down in B- for sure though.
Probably rise both a subrank
Swords Dance should be the only set.
Hard to separate sets on this - maybe just blanket dump them as Offensive?
Each Choice Set should drop a subrank but other options can stay in B-
Stealth Rock Pivot should drop obviously to B, but whether to drop the other two sets to B- or not is really up to you. Hard to say.
Obvious.

Just my 2c but thought you'd appreciate it bro.
 

Martin

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Rocky Helmet Tangrowth is good though. Do not undersell how big of a difference having as much extra physical bulk as it has over AV can be when accounting for physical attackers. Seriosly, the set's ability to take physical hits is pretty much unparalleled (only non-evio rivals to its physical bulk I can think of off of the top of my head are fully PhysDef Mega Tyranitar (bad), Mega Steelix (bad), and Mega Slowbro). Especially when AV is also under pressure to keep stuff like Ash Gren and special Koko in check on top of what physical attackers it soft checks, being able to take on the other side of the spectrum more consistently at the cost of not checking some other things can really come in clutch when your build is already prepped for them with 'mons such as Chansey or Toxapex or whatever.
 

power

uh-oh, the game in trouble
Rocky Helmet Tangrowth is good though. Do not undersell how big of a difference having as much extra physical bulk as it has over AV can be when accounting for physical attackers. Seriosly, the set's ability to take physical hits is pretty much unparalleled
Then run Mixed. If you really want a phys def tang, run mixed w/ lefties which will still take the hits while simultaneously checking koko and healing up with lefties + seeds. RH is a relic of a Metagross Era, and should no longer exist.

Helmet is simply a suboptimal item on phys def tang - mixed already covers the phys def niche if you need it that badly.
 

Leo

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Double Dance Zyg being below Dragon Dance is a damn crime. The aurora veil team made by imsosorrylol demonstrates just how good the set can be
The problem with double dance zygarde is that it's pretty limited to webs and veil, whereas regular DD is more splashable and doesnt require that much support to do its job
 

Colonel M

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Partly what Leooo said.

This and the Compendium are due for an update. Ive been really tied the last couple of weeks, so today Im going to sit down and update both.
 

Gary

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Went ahead and updated the sets to reflect the current VR rankings. CM has been really swamped with work and I just wanted to push this through because it's pretty outdated. As with internal changes:


Groundium: A+
Focus Sash: A
Choice Scarf: A-


Made Groundium the first set and the only A+ set because it is easily the best Duggy set atm and sees use on stall and pretty much any non stall build. Sash still sees decent usage however, but is not as effective so it is placed a subrank below. Scarf is a mediocre revenge killer and makes it harder to trap as many things but it compresses roles nicely so it's still at least A-.


Choice Scarf: A
Choice Specs: A


Made Specs the same rank as Scarf. While Scarf is more commonly seen, Specs is a very underrated breaker that a lot of teams find themselves weak to, and it's quite effective atm.



Z Wild Charge: A
Utility: A
Offensive: A-
Choice Scarf: B+


Changed the stallbreaker set to "Z Wild Charge" to avoid confusion with the Iapapa set (which could fall under the utility role). It's definitely the most effective set in the meta for Koko as of now.


Choice Scarf: A
Choice Specs: A
Offensive: A


Made Choice Scarf the first set.


Magic Guard Utility: A
Unaware: A-


Made Clefable's Magic Guard set A, while placing the Unaware set one below it. While it is standard on stall, it is only used on stall, and most of Clefable's effectiveness and splashability in the meta comes from its Magic Guard sets.


Choice Scarf: A-
Offensive: A-
Choice Specs: B+


Moved Offensive above Specs and made it the same rank as Scarf. Made Specs B+.


Offensive Utility: B+
Choice Specs: B+


Dropped Scarf because of its extreme drop in viability over the past few months.


Subzero Slammer: B+
Life Orb: B+
Choice Scarf: B-
Choice Band: B-


Added Choice Scarf set and move it above CB.


Stealth Rock Pivot: B
Choice Scarf: B-


Removed Wish set.


Calm Mind: B

Removed the OTR set.


Defensive: B
Offensive: B


Re-added Offensive set.


Assault Vest: B+

Removed Choice Specs set.


Sub Roost: C
Choice Specs: C-


Added Sub Roost and put it above Specs, which I moved to C-.

Hopefully that's it. There was a lot to change so I might have made a mistake. Please point out any mistakes I made if you find them.
 
Minor mistake: AV tang is still A+, but tang is A in the VR
Also, i would like to nominate chocie scarf greninja to A+, because it sees a lot of usage in both ladder and tours, and because it is the best scarfer in the tier rn
It basically can revenge whatever you want bar mag, it generates momentum with u turn, it sets spikes, it is faster than everything bar the rare scarf Koko
In my point of view it is as good rn as the other sets
 

Assault Vest: S down to A+
Offensive Trick Room: A+ down to A

Don't get me wrong, Assault Vest is still a great set and it's the only thing keeping Greninja out of the Top 3. However, the sets main issue is its lack of recovery. While Magearna doesn't have to be paired with a Wish passer, it really, really wants it. Since the amount of hits it can take is limited, I find it difficult to keep it alive while still checking threats throughout the course of a match. Greninja, a Pokemon that it's supposed to beat, can bypass it if Magearna has low enough health. Same goes with Latios carrying HP Fire. Also, the Assault Vest is easier to wall and more prediction reliant than the Shift Gear set, Pokemon like Volcarona, AV Tangrowth, Chansey, and Marowak-Alola can come in on Magearna in most cases, and it will usually give the other Pokemon the upper hand if Magearna didn't click the right move. The set is also more vulnerable to being trapped by Dugtrio. Again, it's by no means a good set, but it has more flaws than the Shift Gear set.

Offensive Trick Room simply isn't on par with Assault Vest. It lacks the Speed that Shift Gear provides and the bulk that Assault Vest provides.



EDIT: After reading some reasoning, I no longer agree AV to A+.


Bulky Quiver Dance: A- down to B+/B

Eh. Volcarona is the type of Pokemon that needs an offensive approach. The offensive set is still perfectly capable of switching in on the likes of AV Tangrowth and Celesteela. OK, maybe not with rocks up, but is the defensive set much better with that? The set further capitalizes on the fact that Volcarona is 4x weak to rocks, something that a defensive Pokemon really doesn't want to have. The set is also walled by a lot more, Toxapex, Latios, Heatran, and Tyranitar-Mega are basically hard counters now, while Offensive Quiver Dance has ways of dealing with all of them.
 
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Colonel M

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Made changes to reflect the VR. I did also add:


- Added All-Out Attacker (C)


- Moved Z-Rain Dance over Tail Glow +3 Attacks.

As for slate there isn't much I can think of, but I figured I would give some:

- Moving down Choice Band to C

- Removal of "other" sets as Hoopa-U is not very good at this time.

All I got at this time. I think the VR is indifferent at this time to removing CroCune, especially since there is also Substitute + Rest that has been popping up every now and then and kind of meshes Cro and Vincune together.

I also disagree with the above post as far as Assault Vest. Assault Vest is a really big reason that Magearna still can be annoying to deal with. Even though Shift Gear is its most threatening offensive set, the Assault Vest still has a huge offensive and defensive presence and it's hard for a lot of Pokemon to accomplish what it can do.

Do agree with Bulky Volcarona drop, however. The rise in Heatran and Latios really make this set look worse and worse. Will leave it in the discussion slate.
 

Deleted User 400951

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Dragonite's CB to C - Agree. Multiscale isn't a good enough niche for a CB user. I genuinely see nothing that this has over Zygarde or T-tar, and it barely has much over Kyube. I'm not even certain if it's worth ranking imo.

Hoopa-U's Other sets UR: Agree. I think it's pretty obvious why. This thing is just poor in the current meta and anything other than a Choice set will end up a liability against most teams.

Bulky Volcarona to B: Agree. The raw firepower is better than bulk for it.

AV Magearna to A+ - Strongly disagree. The amount that this eats up is truly insane. In a meta where defensive steels define the game, this is the best defensive steel for its pivoting, typing and not being passive.

Also, can we finally UR SD Mega Scizor? IMO this thing should have been unranked when mega gallade was released, because that's more competition. There are far too many bulky steels to initiate a sweep without significant support since it truly has no way of breaking through them. It also relies too heavily on BP, which is designed to break offense but can backfire if they have a decently bulky pokemon that resists it like Tangrowth and, well, a steel type mon. Steel in general is just a really bad offensive typing right now. With Fires on the rise, Mega Scizor is already getting worse so I don't think such a hilariously mediocre set should be ranked at all.
I'll elaborate more when I get more time.
 
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Dragonite's CB to C - Agree. Multiscale isn't a good enough niche for a CB user. I genuinely see nothing that this has over Zygarde or T-tar, and it barely has much over Kyube. I'm not even certain if it's worth ranking imo.

Hoopa-U's Other sets UR: Agree. I think it's pretty obvious why. This thing is just poor in the current meta and anything other than a Choice set will end up a liability against most teams.

Bulky Volcarona to B: Agree. The raw firepower is better than bulk for it.

AV Magearna to A+ - Strongly disagree. The amount that this eats up is truly insane. In a meta where defensive steels define the game, this is the best defensive steel for its pivoting, typing and not being passive.

Also, can we finally UR SD Mega Scizor? IMO this thing should have been unranked when mega gallade was released, because that's more competition. There are far too many bulky steels to initiate a sweep without significant support since it truly has no way of breaking through them. It also relies too heavily on BP, which is designed to break offense but can backfire if they have a decently bulky pokemon that resists it like Tangrowth and, well, a steel type mon. Steel in general is just a really bad offensive typing right now. With Fires on the rise, Mega Scizor is already getting worse so I don't think such a hilariously mediocre set should be ranked at all.
I'll elaborate more when I get more time.
I definitely disagree with unranking sd mega zor as the recent rise of veil is super good for its viability since it can pretty much beat most veil teams, including my own thats being spammed on the ladder rn, pretty much single handedly. It's also super nice as a late game wincon when mons like tran and steela are dead/severely weakened. Not to mention its also super good vs my trick room team thats being spammed on the ladder rn as well since wak gets worn down by uturns and you just sd up late game. It's also just a mon that alot of like magearna lando bulky offenses arent really prepped for rn and kinda just fold to.
 

Colonel M

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Small Updates:

Ranking update as can be read here

- Added Specs Koko (A-, under Utility)
- Moved Swords Dance Mega Scizor to B- (was C+)
- Moved Assault Vest Tornadus-T to B (was B+)
- Moved Choice Band Dragonite to C (was C+)

No further changes at this time have been made. Currently this is waiting for the Mega stones (probably just Latias and Diancie) to be ranked, so please refrain from asking where Mega Latias is.
 

cityscapes

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what's the difference between defensive and offensive mega venu?

i think scarf chomp should move to a- because it's bad, both its stabs are bad and stuff like celesteela just kinda comes in.
 

Gary

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what's the difference between defensive and offensive mega venu?

i think scarf chomp should move to a- because it's bad, both its stabs are bad and stuff like celesteela just kinda comes in.
Offensive Venu will run offensive investment with a Modest nature while Defensive tends to run bulk and a +Def or +SpD nature.
 
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Some suggestions:

It's defensive set should be moved down to A+ as it dropped in favor of other bulky rockers like Clefable and Mew. People will generally prefer using its Offensive sets as they're much more threatening in the metagame.

I think that it's Scarf set should just move up to A+ as it has proven to be one of the best Scarfers throughout the past few few months, and is at least as good as it's other sets. I'd say that it should be ranked before the All-Out-Attacker set as it really dropped in usage and just isn't as effective as the choice scarf set is nowadays.

Its Choice Band set should just be removed in my opinion. I've never seen that set being effective; it's SD sets are just much better to break through the opponent's team and have the advantage of not being choice locked and thus, they can run Z-Moves or Life Orb. I'd never see myself using the CB set when the SD set is just much better.

The Calm Mind set should be re-added to A- or A as it became an extremely popular set, matching up very well against many popular mus rn like Veil, Webs and is an incredibly good Balance and Stall breaker.

The Defog set should be moved up to A- and could potentially be putted before the 3 Attacks one as it became a prime option with the rise of SR CLefable, being the best defogger to check it thanks to pressure.

Thanks for reading!
 
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I think that SD Mega Scizor should be moved to B. In the lasts few weeks, I have seen the SD knock off set gaining a lot of traction. Knock allow for you to hit many of the things the previously hard countered it such a pex (provided scald isn't a bitch and burns and you play around the haze well), skarm, and even weekend celesteela
+2 108+ Atk Scizor-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
 

Colonel M

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Yeah SD Scizor will be going up. Im also going to add Z Celebrate Victini and add a few other things needed. Should be up sometime tomorrow. For sure here on out were solid with keeping updates, but after this update we're going to wait until Dugtrio suspect to make adjustments.
 
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