NU Viability Rankings

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nominating Vikavolt to B+

Vikavolt is a Pokemon that I feel is very anti-meta currently. Right now with the common balance cores that are used, like the Steelix, Golbat, bulky Water framework as an example, Vikavolt tears those teams to shreds. The popularity of Rotom-C and Sceptile also helps as well considering it matches up very well against both and gives it plenty of opportunities to break through teams in just about every game. The typing + bulk makes it difficult to KO too as a lot of teams struggle to beat bulky Roost sets in particular, due to the amount of mons Vikavolt can switch into and get off a Roost. Being Stealth Rock weak and slow sucks, but I found that it isn't hard to support it at all because of its good synergy with Hitmonlee and Skuntank, and it has the perk of being immune to all other entry hazards anyways. Common Pokemon like Emboar and Houndoom can be an issue for it, but both of those can be Volt Switched on and even if they switch in as Vikavolt Roosts, with the right teammates it usually outlasts them in the long run. Slow pivot support is also such a nice trait on bulky offense teams that I find myself using this more than I would anything is in B-, which frankly is filled with niche to mediocre Pokemon at the moment when compared to Vikavolt.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
A couple personal nominations I would like to make.

Down to B-

Can we ask ourselves for a moment why exactly anyone should use Hitmontop on a serious team? Outside of being bulky and sometimes catching a Ghost-type off-guard with Foresight + Rapid Spin, Hitmontop is outclassed as a Spinner by Hitmonlee and hazard removal in general by Golbat and others. This thing lacking Knock Off means a free switch-in for Mismagius everytime as an example, and it can't even touch some Pokemon like Xatu, Sigilyph, and Vileplume since Toxic doesn't affect them at all and neither does Close Combat. Poison-types in general taking huge advantage of its inability to touch some of these Pokemon most of the time or Pokemon such as Granbull having Heal Bell anyway just adds insult to the injury. Yeah I get it, it's there for hazard removal and being kind of bulky and utilitarian with Intimidate, but to rank it in the same area such as even Skuntank feels rather unacceptable. Skuntank may struggle offensively with Acid Spray and its physically offensive sets, but it's still a nice utility Pokemon that can be annoying for Veil teams because it's sturdy enough to take Icicle Crash from Alolan-Sandslash and brush it off. Pokemon in B have much higher reasons to be used in a serious team in NU, and for HItmontop there's very few, if any, reasons of use. Close Combat also is a major detriment to its durability, unfortunately, so there are instances where Hitmontop can be exploited further as well in spite of being durable.

Up to B+

Normalium Z Malamar is such an annoying threat just because Contrary ignores the Z Boost. Superpower just being a great move to spam with the Attack and Defense buff each turn just makes Malamar that much harder to revenge kill by conventional means (Sucker Punch, etc). The only thing that sucks is a healthy Slowbro can sort of play with it if it's Z Crystal Slowbro (which means reduced damage by STAB Knock Off) and Scarfers such as Hitmonlee and Sawk are still faster than Malamar. Still, another nice thing about Malamar is that it's very anti-Webs as well - something that's hard to ignore since Webs is a playstyle that has poked its head in NU. I admit Malamar doesn't like Fairy-types like Aromatisse existing either and Pokemon such as Steelix can still be annoying if it packs Roar, but as a lategame cleaner it's very potent. Outspeeding Choice Scarf Emboar is a pretty big plus in my book since it's probably one of the more common Choice Scarf users outside of Braviary, Hitmonlee, and sometimes Uxie. It can set up on a lot of the Psychic-types, though to be fair Xatu is kind of annoying since U-turn will do a lot of damage to Malamar as well (even at +1 Def U-turn can clock about 40 max after a Defense boost).

Up to B+

Scarf Hitmonlee does give Sawk competition, but the additional coverage Sawk gets with Ice Punch and Earthquake help out a lot when facing Whimsicott or Garbodor. It's nice to have on Spike stacking teams and still works on most balanced builds as a solid revenge killer. Mold Breaker Earthquake helps out a lot since it makes it a little harder for Pokemon to comfortably switch into the attack if they rely on Levitate (Vikavolt, Rotom to an extent). I personally find Sawk a lot easier to splash on builds and still be fairly effective on than a lot of Pokemon currently in B at this current point. I think the only exception may be Omastar, which I also think is worthwhile to be in B+ as well, but we'll save that for another day.

Down to B-

Absol in comparison to Faticate is a major disadvantage for Absol. Absol only has Knock Off and, to an extent, Iron Tail as redeeming qualities for it. You could argue Fire Blast to some extents, I guess, but the additional coverage is basically making up for Alolan Raticate's difficult-to-check combination of STABs. Hustle's inaccuracy is kind of annoying I admit, but having a more consistent STAB Dark-type move in Crunch while having a powerful Double-Edge / Breakneck Blitz is a worthwhile trade. Faticate also has some small perks such as slightly improved bulk and Speed (though not by a ton, it's big enough to push it to an edge). Overall Absol just does not seem to be the same ranking as Alolan-Raticate. Whether that means Faticate up or Absol down I don't know, though I think for now it's safer to lean on the latter.
 
Last edited:
A couple personal nominations I would like to make.

Down to B-

Can we ask ourselves for a moment why exactly anyone should use Hitmontop on a serious team? Outside of being bulky and sometimes catching a Ghost-type off-guard with Foresight + Rapid Spin, Hitmontop is outclassed as a Spinner by Hitmonlee and hazard removal in general by Golbat and others. This thing lacking Knock Off means a free switch-in for Mismagius everytime as an example, and it can't even touch some Pokemon like Xatu, Sigilyph, and Vileplume since Toxic doesn't affect them at all and neither does Close Combat. Poison-types in general taking huge advantage of its inability to touch some of these Pokemon most of the time or Pokemon such as Granbull having Heal Bell anyway just adds insult to the injury. Yeah I get it, it's there for hazard removal and being kind of bulky and utilitarian with Intimidate, but to rank it in the same area such as even Skuntank feels rather unacceptable. Skuntank may struggle offensively with Acid Spray and its physically offensive sets, but it's still a nice utility Pokemon that can be annoying for Veil teams because it's sturdy enough to take Icicle Crash from Alolan-Sandslash and brush it off. Pokemon in B have much higher reasons to be used in a serious team in NU, and for HItmontop there's very few, if any, reasons of use. Close Combat also is a major detriment to its durability, unfortunately, so there are instances where Hitmontop can be exploited further as well in spite of being durable.
I completely disagree with this. I don't see how Hitmontop is outclassed by Hitmonlee since they're completely different Pokemon. Hitmonlee is frail and offensive, and the only time I'm usuaully able to fit Rapid Spin on Lee is on scarf and while it can usually get off the Spin one time reliably Scarf Spin isn't always ideal and because of Hitmontop's phenomenal bulk and ability it can usually spin many, many times making it a much better spinner in general (in my opinion at least.)

I don't really see not being able to hurt mons like Xatu and Sigilyph as relevant. It's a defensive wall, so of course it's not going be able to threaten every mon in the tier and I don't see not being able to threaten these mons as an issue. Yes it gives a "free" switch in to some threats such as Mismagius and that's why I would never run Hitmontop on any sort of offensive build, only a balance build with a solid defensive core so you don't have to worry too much about that.

The combination of intimidate, Spin, and the bulk can be very useful and is a unique niche.

Here is one of my NU Open matches where I use a Hitmontop team and Hitmontop puts in really good work: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-615046013

My opponent is using a very standard balance team, and many teams similar to that exist. Now look at how much work Hitmontop is able to do. For one it easily keeps rocks off the field for the entire game, spinning on basically everything. Secondly thanks to the bulk it's able to check a lot. The intimidate is vital for letting me beat Emboar, and not only can I beat Emboar with it I can also eat a Rotom-C tbolt at one point and put it in range to die to rocks which was really important for me. I also use it to get off the toxic on Bro with a simple prediction which is vital to pave the way for a Barbaracle sweep late game. Overall it provides really good defensive utility.

Do you think I could replace Hitmontop with Golbat or Hitmonlee on this team and it would be just as good? I certainly don't. The intimidate and physical bulk are vital for playing around a lot of threats, so Hitmonlee wouldn't work. I'm running hazard stack so Golbat would be far from ideal and frankly I would prefer Hitmontop on this team anyways even setting aside the issue of running defog on hazard stack, because the intimidate is very useful on this team in a lot of situations.

I'm not saying Hitmontop is some phenomenal Pokemon -- it's not. But it's definitely unique and fits on a decent number of builds, and performs its role well. If anything I would be nomming it UP since I think it's quite a bit better than removers like Cryogonal or Skuntank, which are currently in the same rank.
 
Last edited:
B- -----> B+

I think this Pokemon is very underrated in the current Metagame. I used it during my suspect test laddering and it was pretty overwhelming for a Pokemon which is only B-. The choice Specs set is one of the strongest Wallbreaker sets of the Tier and its able to 2HKO nearly every Pokemon and it doesnt really have a reliable switchin beside Golbat. It has a very great STAB combination with two moves that can bove hit very hard with a base Power of 130 in Leaf Storm and Draco Meteor. Its coverage Options are really good, too, because it has Access to sludge bomb to hit Togetic and it has Flamethrower to hit the steel types of the Tier. Its bulk and its typing are giving Eggy the opportunity to switch into many Pokemon like Slowbro, Steelix, Rotom-Mow, Leaf storm locked Sceptiles etc. Its able to Counter Rotom-Mow, too, and it punishs every of them who dont Volt Switch because they want to hit the Teams ground type with a nuke against the opponents Team. Here are some Calcs to Show its amazing wallbreaking Power:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor-Alola Leaf Storm vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 405-477 (115 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor-Alola Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 430-507 (125 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor-Alola Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 274-324 (80.3 - 95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor-Alola Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Incineroar: 247-292 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor-Alola Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 202-238 (64.3 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor-Alola Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 373-441 (91.8 - 108.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Sadly, Exeggutor isnt flawless at all, its slow and it loses against many other Pokemon who are faster and who can hit it with a very effective move, common examples are Sneasel, Drapion and Garbodor. And thats why I think that it doesnt deserve to be higher ranked than B+, but I still think that B+ would be a fair and deserved rank for Alola Eggy.
 
Last edited:

cyanize

Mantra Good I Casted So Many Spells U Idiot
is a Community Contributor
I have a couple of quick nominations, nothing major. No sprites or other fancy stuff bc mobile is a pain.

kabu c -> b / liepard c- -> b-
After suspect laddering with rain, i quickly realized that it's just as strong and annoying as it always has been, and Rockium Z Kabu is an especially huge threat. Also, the other main partner in rain sweeping currently sits at B (yes, it works better solo, but rain in general is worthy of this rank so i think it fits.) Similarly, Liepard is the main reason rain works as well as it does, as priority rain is second only to autosetting and Encore is always a nice boon, so i think it shouldn't be chilling in the same ranks as garb like Swanna and Togetic.

kanga b -> b-
Kinda struggles to break traditional balance cores unless you consistently have rocks and a spike up, where other mons designed to break such cores (emboar ofc, rat, sharp beak braviary is an absurdly slept on set) don't need it nearly as much. Better MU vs offense is nice but kinda undermined when the best offensive style relies on lowering incoming damage.

typh c+ -> c-
This mon is bad and there's no reason to use it over any of the other special fires we have currently. It's only good when the opposition doesn't run proper special Fire resist, and while that is admittedly common with Bro being the bulky water to end all bulky waters, the other fires of the tier can accomplish much superior feats without requiring a choice item and hazards off on your side at all times. In a matchup versus more offensive teams, I'd still prefer scarf Delphox as it a. can outspeed Slash in hail, b. can trick its item so that it's not complete deadweight vs bulky styles, and c. doesn't absolutely require full hp or Blaze to do good damage. Comparing it to the other mons in C+ and even C, it is completely eclipsed and has essentially no notable niche, whereas those mons at least do one or two things to differentiate themselves.

edit: claydol -> d
nu by usage so it should technically get a rank, but it's awful.
 
Last edited:

poh

<?>
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
--> A- or
--> A-

Bit of a controversial one probably but I think Rhydon should drop. Rhydon is supposed to fulfill a number of roles but it actually struggles to perform them atm. It's supposed to be a Fire-check but all Fire-types in the A-ranks can beat it (Superpower Emboar, HP Grass/Water Houndoom, Grass Knot Delphox). It's supposed to be an Electric-immunity when the best Electric-type in the tier beats it. Rhydon is still a good Normal- and Flying-check but those types aren't even common in the current metagame. You could say all this about Seismitoad too but Toad can afford Protect to scout the Choiced Grass-types, can run Toxic to beat stuff like Slowbro and has Leftovers so it isn't worn down as quick as Rhydon. Thoughts?

Agreeing on:
--> B-
--> B+
--> B / B+
 
a few drops:

Hitmonlee from A+ to A

hitmonlee is rly good but unlike other fighting-types it cant pressure slowbro much at all. Not quite as good

Charizard from B to B-

its so hard to justify using a mon 4x weak to SR as a fire-type when theres so many better ones. BLUNDERZARD is cool and all but its so hard to fit on a team

Qwilfish from B+ to B

its a poison type that cant switch in on grasses. still bad.

Houndoom from A to A-

honestly I think Houndoom isnt at its best right now. its speed and bulk are really lacking and Delphox is easier to fit on to most teams. Its still a scary threat but I think it should be the same rank as Delphox
 
My thoughts on a huge mon in the current meta.

Emboar from A+ -> S
This thing is incredible in the current metaggame. Powerful STABS (with Reckless) and great coverage allow it to really dominate the meta game. Expert Belt sets completely obliterate stall (I literally click x when i see one when using stall). Choice Scarf sets can revenge kill a great part of the grassspam and bug/ice heavy meta right now (8/15 mons from A->S rank mons have a weakness to one of Emboar's STABs, and often multiple). Overall amazing mon that deserves its place up in the S ranks.


Agree on drops on Rhydon, kanga, typh, and agree with rises of Vikavolt, Kabutops, and Malamar.
 
B- > B+

I'm echoing the sentiment that Exeggutor-A should be raised from B-, but for a different set. Choice Specs Exegg is a powerful wallbreaker in its own right as demonstrated by the calcs above, but it's also an incredibly potent anti-offense mon with its Dragonium-Z set (TR/Energy Ball/Draco/Flamethrower or Sludge Bomb). Exegg can use its solid resistances to Water, Grass, Electric and Ground moves to come in on a number of mons like Slowbro/King, Rotom-C, Seismitoad, Steelix, etc; use its solid bulk to set up a Trick Room, and proceed to wreak havoc. Pokemon that can take a hit from Exegg's Z-move are incredibly limited on offense, and many those that do are demolished by Exegg's coverage. If Exeggutor is ever given a free turn to set up Trick Room, it will get a kill against classic offense and BO teams, and many balances lacking mons like Vileplume, Aromatisse, or other walls of a similar caliber will find themselves struggling as well.
 
C- --> C+

Articuno @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry / Ice beam
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Protect / Roost

I think looking at Articuno as a late gamer is the reason why it has been underappreciated. This particular set does incredibly well against balance, functioning essentially in the same way as OU's subtect Suicune, but using toxic to kill mons that resist ice instead of setting of calm minds. This mon can put up a sub against weaker utility mons and wear them down. If it gets up the sub, then it can also pp stall many choiced mons that might try to get past it, as well as pp stall mons that only have one move to break sub. It is able to do this job quite well, though it does require strong team support because of its rocks weakness as well as being fairly useless against certain mons if it does not have a sub up beforehand. Unfortunately I did not save replays, but I assure you, it put in work fairly consistently. I feel it works because wearing down teams with toxic is very strong in this meta, and it is superb at that job due to its great bulk and moderate speed. My laddering experience with it has been that it is fairly consistent, though there are still some games where it does very little and some games it wins almost by itself. It's hard for me to explain how this mon fits into the meta and why it is actually pretty decent, but my gut way of describing it is that it can force games to open up by pressuring (haha) the opponent.
 

quziel

I am the Scientist now
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Vikavolt:

B- => A-
I know Vikavolt's been nommed to B+ already, but its such an influential mon in NUPL and the meta in general right now that I honestly think it could even go to A-. The flagship sets are Bug-Z roost, followed by choice specs, which just utterly destroy those horrid Slowbro/Steelix/Golbat cores that are so common on Balance / Bulky Offense. Bug-z may seem odd, but it means you can actually use this terrifying wallbreaker as a very workable hitmonlee check (not the primary), while letting you just throw out a disgustingly powerful Z-Bug Buzz.

Yeah, its weak to Rocks, its weak to the very influential fire types, but it gets so many switchins on so many defensive mons, provides an invaluable slow U-turn, and hits so damn hard that its hard not to recommend atm. Crux of the matter is that it has the bulk to work as a very respectable pivot, and the power to tear apart many of the tier's common defensive cores, and aside from rocks support, its fairly easy to fit onto many Bulky Offense teams.

Best set IMO:
Vikavolt @ Buginium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 176 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch

(Evs shameless stolen from the analysis)

Some Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-617098785 (good bulk and power lets it threaten golbat, 1 on 1 drap, and OHKo spiritomb)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-614253967 (on the losing side, but contributes heavily)
 
Last edited:

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
I can agree with Vikavolt jumping to A- tbh; it's disgustingly hard for most Pokemon to comfortably take a hit from this since it nails the whole tier for at least neutral damage, and Vikavolt has the potential to go absolute apeshit on your team if Stealth Rock is not on its side of the field, as it not only gets to spam Volt Switch much more freely but it's also hard to KO without using Fire-type attacks and thus gets to trade painful blows with foes. Just take a look at Choice Specs Vikavolt, the frailer of the two main sets, surviving some of the most powerful special attacks in the tier and KOing back.
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Vikavolt: 277-327 (81.7 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mismagius Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Vikavolt: 286-337 (84.3 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Vikavolt: 286-337 (84.3 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 422-500 (123.7 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 252-297 (96.5 - 113.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
These calcs show that it can be immensely difficult to favorably trade with Specs Vikavolt or prevent it from netting a KO. Not only that, but Vikavolt can easily operate with a bulkier set with Roost, capable of taking on the likes of Specs Sceptile, Specs Rotom-Mow, and Hitmonlee with ease, and quziel's suggestion of Buginium Z even being handy for blocking Trick as well as nuking the likes of Scrafty and Drapion. As long as SR isn't clipping its wings, Vikavolt can prove to be an annoying powerhouse against nearly any kind of team.

C to B- / C+
B to C+

Shiftry is a Pokemon which I feel deserves more credit than being in C. Like Sneasel, Shiftry is one of the better immediate attacking Dark-types in the tier, threatening hefty damage right off the bat as well as carrying powerful priority. Shiftry has a significant edge in being able to effectively wallbreak due to its dual STABs, which are potent against many of the bulkier Pokemon in the meta. Knock Off and Sucker Punch are its typical STABs with defined roles, while Leaf Storm targets physically bulkier Pokemon such as Steelix and Granbull, and is notable for being able to OHKO Slowbro. From there, Shiftry has many options it can consider:
- Extrasensory can do solid damage to Poison- and Fighting-types such as Golbat, Garbodor, Vileplume, Virizion, Emboar, Toxicroak, etc.
- Hurricane can help OHKO or do more damage to particular Extrasensory targets such as Virizion and Vileplume in exchange for less accuracy. Also does a sizable chunk to mons like Drapion and Scrafty.
- Shiftry is a half-decent offensive Defog user, being able to threaten a majority of entry hazard users and opponents probably worrying more about a potential coverage move.
- Explosion can bring down a foe, or more importantly nearly any of Shiftry's checks, along with Shiftry should the latter begin to outlive its usefulness. What's nice about Explosion about Shiftry is that Normal resists don't usually appreciate taking Shiftry's STABs, making them very risky switch-ins.

On the other hand, I don't feel SD Shiftry is particularly worthwhile in the meta since its dual STABs kinda need a coverage move to back them up, so I don't consider it much of a factor for its rise. Speaking of SD Dark-types, I feel SD Absol is also rather suboptimal right now for similiar reasons to SD Shiftry, in that it needs more coverage moves to work than it can afford. I feel Absol's better set in this metagame is the 4 Attacks set with Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Superpower, and Iron Tail / Play Rough, going all-out to smack as much as it can as hard as it can without wasting precious turns setting up. Of course, the AoA set alone won't be enough to keep Absol in B Rank, but looking at the B- Ranks and C+ Ranks, I'd feel Absol is more fitting in the latter category, where it has a clear defined niche like other C+ Rankers which aren't terrible mons in their own right, but held back by several flaws, which in Absol's case are its non-existent bulk which exacerbates its need to OHKO targets (which Absol has trouble doing so in this meta) and gives almost no setup opportunities, as well as heavy reliance on Sucker Punch against pretty much any faster foe (of which there are many due to Absol's only average Speed tier).
 
Last edited:
NU VR Update™

Rises
A- ---> A
B ---> B+
B- ---> B+
B- ---> B
C ---> C+

Drops
A+ ---> A
B+ ---> B
B ---> B-
B ---> B-
B ---> B-
C- ---> UR


Additions
UR ---> D

  • Though Delphox wasn't discussed to rise again in any previous posts, after Raseri decided to nominate Houndoom to drop to put on the same level as Delphox in terms of effectiveness, we voted between making both either A- or A and a good majority of the council voted the latter. Delphox is still a terrifying force to face and has ways around its checks through Z move and Colbur Berry sets and is about on par with Houndoom with how difficult it is to check defensively.
  • Malamar rose due to the effectiveness of Z Happy Hour, being a very terrifying sweeper that's able to take advantage of more passive Pokemon, such as Steelix and Uxie, to use as setup bait.
  • Vikavolt's effect on the meta is way more significant than the rest of the Pokemon in B- and B. Between the longevity of Roost sets while still remaining an offensive threat and the sheer power of Choice Specs, the council unanimously agreed that it deserved to rise. This could potentially be A- in the near future.
  • Alolan Exeggutor is an effective OTR sweeper/breaker, with its Dragon STAB having very little reliable switch ins that already don't get covered by its Grass STAB plus Flamethrower coverage. Punishing Rotom-C and Sceptile for going for Leaf Storm is a major plus to its viability as well.
  • Kabutops rose because rain is making a slight return on the ladder and Kabutops is a very effective Pokemon on these archetypes due to Continental Crush sets having very few switch ins aside from Seismitoad.
  • As for the drops this round, Hitmonlee is still a great Pokemon in the current metagame, but its impact is hampered by the omnipresent Slowbro, which has no issues at all walling it. The metagame in general is more prepared to take it on due to the abundance of Fighting-type threats.
  • Qwilfish's typing makes it an awkward pick for teams, mostly due to its lack of Grass resistance, making it unable to soft-check Pokemon like Sceptile or Whimsicott and generally having more competition from Garbodor as a defensive Spikes setter. It's also bait for the increasingly common Xatu, which Garbodor can at least pressure more due to Gunk Shot doing a decent chunk plus potential Poisons forcing it to Roost more often.
  • Absol was moved down for the competition it faces from Alolan Raticate, which sports a strong Normal-type STAB to break through things more effectively than Absol, at the cost of some inconsistency.
  • BLUNDERZARD has sadly fallen from grace, finding itself little opportunities to set up a Z Sunny Day and break/sweep through teams. It also faces severe competition from the likes of Delphox and Houndoom, both of which have more than one shot to threaten teams in a match.
  • Hitmontop does its job of keeping hazards away well, but it's liability against many Pokemon that are common in the current metagame.
  • Swanna has an okay matchup versus Steelix as a Defogger, but that's really all it has going for it because it's otherwise a terrible Pokemon.
Now with Claydol ranked and the addition of a D rank being added, DO NOT discuss Pokemon moving up or down to D rank; this rank is solely for Pokemon that are considered unviable in the current metagame, but remain NU by usage. Any post involving the discussion of D rank will be deleted on sight.

As for potential discussion points, these are the following the VR council had in mind: Emboar up to S, Samurott up to A-, Uxie and Whimsicott down to A-, and Drampa and Guzzlord switching places. Happy posting! :toast:
 
I've been playing with some obscure mons lately and I have to say a lot of them have been performing a lot better then I had thought they would, so I thought I'd make the case for some shifts. This post will be focused more a lot lot of lower tiered mons so apologies for that.


C- --> C+

So Togedmaru has been one of my favorite mons to use lately. Its extremely anti-meta right now because how good electrics like Rotom-M or Vikavolt are right. And given their popularity in this meta, you'll find a lot of moments where Togedmaru can come in and competely shut down a teams momentum and gaining it back in your favor with u-turn or a well played wish to help someone else. Vanilluxe and Aurorus are also really popular right now given how few freeze-dry resists there are in the tier, having a solid answer to them is a huge bonus. I've had so many people just straight up lose to this mon because it walled out half their team.


C- --> C+/B-

Gallade is extremely under the radar right now, the best set being SD + Z - xscissor. Its a fighting type that can break past both Golbat and Slowbro at the same time which really punishes the Golbat/Lix/Slowbro core people have been spamming to death. Not a whole lot more to say other then +2 savage spin out ohkos Slowbro and +2 ZHB ohkos golbat after rocks. This thing shreds through most balance teams with little to no issue.


C- --> C

I so want to nominate this to move to C+ because of how well it pairs up vs all the SR setters in the tier. Being able to come in on things like Steelix, Rhydon, and Seis and force them out giving you a free turn to Defog/ Leaf Storm is extremely good. This thing out speeds and 2hkos things like Steelix, vikavolt, and Xatu while also being able to ohko things Seis and Rhydon. A lot of bulky offense teams really struggle to switch into this because anything not faster more often then not straight up gets 2hko'd by it. I've found it to honestly be the most reliable defogger in the tier strictly because of its ability to straight up switch into any SR user in the tier just about and defog stuff away.

The reason however I only am nominating it for C is because of the PP issue on Leaf Storm. Protect has been seeing a large rise on SR users such as Seis and Regirock to help scout and punish a lot of the choiced mons in the tier like Rotom-M, and them being able to pp stall the mere 8 pp Leaf Storm has is a rather big issue. I could totally see this moving up a lot higher then C in the future if people get used to using it. Its honestly in my opinion one of the most slept on mons in NU right now.


C- --> C

One last mon I feel like people are really sleeping on. Electric types are extremely good right now, and this thing has the coverage to abuse most of the grass resists people are currently running. Being able to hit the likes of Rhydon and Steelix with Giga Drain and not have to worry about oncoming EQ is huge, and it even has fire coverage to hit bulky grass types that might want to come in on a resist hit and force it out. It has the bulk to be able to take most special hits in the game and fire off a really strong tbolt/volt switch in return. And given bulky offenses viability in the meta, Eelektross finds a nice spot in todays metagame as a bulky pivot that's hard to wall and can chew almost anything. If you get this in for free it will always net you good results.


As for the discussion points, I feel very strongly about Emboar and Samurott moving up. Emobar has shown itself to be an amazing wall breaker with other CB or Ebelt and the Scarf sets are insanely hard to deal with for most balance/ BO/ Offensive teams to deal with due to its power and now reasonable speed.

Samurott benefits so much from this meta where everyone just throws slowbro on as a catch all. Being able to SD and then ohko Slowbro with megahorn is huge for it, and its not something a lot of balanced teams are preparing for, so I think there is a very strong case for it to rise.
 
Last edited:
C+ --> B-/B
C- --> B-

This post is about Rain as a playstyle, and I believe Rain is currently one of the best offensive archetypes in the metagame. The core that's common to most Rain teams is Uxie and Liepard as Rain setters, Kabutops and Ludicolo as abusers, a Poison type to absorb Toxic Spikes - generally Garbodor to provide a Grass resist and answer to mons such as Virizion that can be difficult for the main core of abusers to handle, though options like Toxicroak could be explored - and an additional Grass resist, to handle problematic mons like Sceptile and Rotom-C. Scarf Delphox is one suggested mon I've seen in the 6th slot to help Rain's matchup with Hail setters like Vanilluxe and Aurorus that annoy it; I personally have used Exeggutor-Alola to success to attack on a different axis from the rest of the team, but I've already posted about that mon's strengths, which go beyond its use on Rain.

The reason I'm making this post is that Rain is incredibly destructive to a lot of the "traditional" bulky offense and balance teams I've seen on the ladder, using things like Steelix/Bro/Golbat/Emboar as cores, and often using Scarfers like Hitmonlee, Sawk, Emboar, Drapion, Meloetta, Houndoom etc. that are simply not useful against the outright speed of Rain. Kabutops is every bit as strong of a breaker as Ludicolo, who currently sits in B rank; its Adamant Waterfall is incredibly powerful from the get-go, and its ability to run Swords Dance and Rockium-Z (or simply LO) lets it blow by would-be checks like Virizion, Slowbro, and Jellicent. The list of mons Kabutops struggles to break is very limited (Seismitoad, Quagsire, Pyukumuku, and physdef Vileplume come to mind), and Ludicolo can cover those since none of them enjoy its STAB+Ice Beam combo. I also believe Liepard should be ranked up to within a subrank of the two Rain sweepers, since its support of Prankster Rain Dance and Encore makes setup mons much less of a danger to a Rain team outside of its weather, and being able to Rain Dance before going down 99% of the time allows Rain to stay on top of the game for long enough to win.

Rain is by no means a perfect playstyle, facing struggles with the popular Hail setters present on Aurora Veil and Webs archetypes at the moment, as well as the occasional stall team, but it has counterplay measures against these styles and is very much an effective and dangerous offense archetype that deserves both more respect and preparation.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor

Looking at it, Drampa and Guzzlord could certainly switch places. Among the two, Guzzlord serves as the better Fire check due to resisting both STABs of Delphox and Houndoom, whereas Drampa risks getting overwhelmed by boosted Z-Moves or just fail to break through Calm Mind Delphox in time. Guzzlord's Psychic immunity can also come in handy against Meloetta, and AV Guzz can survive 2 Specs Hyper Voices even after 2 Stealth Rock switch-ins, making it a half decent check. While Guzz isn't particularly strong, its strong STABs and perfect neutral coverage can still pose some problems even to bulkier teams. While Drampa certainly outdoes Guzzlord offensively, it suffers significantly in the defensive department, as it doesn't manage to make full use of its resistances since they either carry some super effective coverage move or an additional STAB that it doesn't resist. Defensive Calm Mind sets don't get very far either as it gets checked by literally every Fighting-type in the meta (that includes even Hitmontop) of which there is an abundance of, while more offensive variants of Drampa either get set back by being forced to Roost more often or just ditch recovery outright, which is an issue due to how slow Drampa is.


I think Emboar is fine at A+ in the meantime; each set is good but held back by notable flaws. Scarf Boar is a capable cleaner and effective holepuncher against offense and even balance, but it fails to outspeed any opposing boosted threat which can slightly hamper its effectiveness against them. It has some nice resistances against offense but it only really takes advantage of them once since the likes of Leaf Storm and Blizzard still hurt and Boar's Flare Blitz recoil just wears itself down further, and Knock Off isn't one of the resistances it can make use of since Boar doesn't usually want to lose its Scarf. Choice Band or Expert Belt Emboar is great at breaking bulkier teams but obviously is held back by a mediocre Speed tier and slight reliance on unSTAB Sucker Punch, and even faces mild competition with Machamp whose attacks are just a bit safer to throw out. I suppose you can make use of some wacky Adamant Z-Wild Charge set that can KO non-Lefties Slowbro after Flare Blitz and SR damage, but that comes with its own costs like lacking Speed, boosts to its other attacks, and consumes the Z-Slot.

While Rotom has traditionally been a solid Pokemon, I haven't been seeing it do a whole lot in this meta, and its rather lackluster stats have been showing their true ugly colors. Its offensive stats are not much to be excited about and much of its power primarily comes from WispHex, which not only takes time to set up and isn't a consistent boost like Mismagius's Nasty Plot, but it is a lot easier to work around in this meta compared to last Gen due to the presence of Meloetta and faster Fire-types. Rotom's bulk is also very limiting despite the decent resistances it has, and this is very apparent in Scarf sets which usually end up Volt Switching a majority of the time since they can rarely afford to trade blows, unlike Rotom-C which can stomach even a strong unresisted hit. For non-Scarf sets, they suffer from being vulnerable to nearly every offensive threat that outspeeds it, including the 95 Speed Dark-types in Drapion and Houndoom which Mismagius can at least outrun. Even with WispHex, Rotom's Volt Switch is not that hard to stop compared to Rotom-C, Vikavolt, and even the likes of Alolan Raichu and Manectric, which can punish Electric immunities more immediately with powerful coverage moves. I'd say Rotom could use a drop to B, maybe even B-.

Now onto some of Sir Kay's noms...
Z-X-Scissor is a nice innovation but I can't see it being outright best; Z-ThunderPunch can strike down Slowbro as well as other mons like Jellicent and Xatu, while SD Lum offers both consistency and reduced opportunity cost, which is why I consider it to be Gallade's overall best, or at least most splashable set. While I do agree that Gallade's niche of being a Fighting-type that can bypass bulky Poison- and Psychic-types is overlooked right now, it still has many problems such as complete lack of defensive presence (being way too frail to be considered a Fighting resist, and suffers from lack of resistances in general), average Speed tier coupled with Close Combat making it not hard to revenge kill, and the overall sheer difficulty in setting up without getting crippled by status or simply revenge killed is everlooming. While bulky Ghosts such as Spiritomb and Gourgeist-XL are getting/already rather unpopular, C+ / B- still seems too high of a jump imo, and only warrants a slight rise to C atm for starters. I guess SubBU does alleviate the revenge killing issue, but it's a slower process and doesn't deal with any of Gallade's traditional defensive responses, so it's only a small argument for Gallade.


Here I go again. Like ok, it has no weaknesses & immune to Ground, it's not easy to OHKO, and it has decent neutral coverage. You claim that Eel has a "nice spot" in today's metagame by being a bulky pivot that's hard to wall and chews almost anything. However, there are several factors that hold those niches back:
1) You say it's a bulky pivot, but how many offensive threats can it switch into well? Scarf Rotom-Mow's Leaf Storm does like 40% min, meaning you're only switching into that once before the next 2 consecutive Leaf Storms KO it next time. Just about the only offensive threat Eel can actually switch into is Vivillon, and even then it's not like it can carry Sleep Talk, meaning it could just become fodder for Vivillon's teammates. For the purposes of bulky pivot, Vikavolt, Lanturn, goddamn Togedemaru, and Rotom-C who's not even defensively invested make for better candidates.

2) Perhaps you wanted a bulky pivot that's hard to wall so it doesn't forfeit much momentum, even though it barely gains any momentum for you in the first place due to the reasons aforementioned. Already Vikavolt and Rotom-C make for appealing options but you didn't want them because of severe teambuilding contraints or some other scenario you'd usually not find yourself in. So does Eel's wallbreaking ability warrant its use over those two? Answer: heck no. While Eel's coverage can indeed be troublesome for some bulky teams, Eel lacks both strong OHKO potential (252+ SpA Eelektross Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 336-396 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO) and reliable recovery; this makes it really easy to pivot around Eel and stall it out, especially if Eel is afflicted by some sort of status like Steelix's Toxic or a random Scald, then these Pokemon can usually just outlast Eel throughout the match. This is not even considering those bulky teams that do have an Eel response, like Aromatisse, Incineroar, CroTomb, Clefairy, Audino, and any Dragon-type, the latter of which is gaining some traction in the tier. Then you can expect Eel to lose even more momentum whenever it is not Volt Switching on the switch against them.

3) Being 'an offensive mon that is hard to OHKO' is only really relevant when dealing with how well it handles neutral matchups. Stuff like Machamp, Druddigon, Vikavolt, and Alolan Eggy can be hard to KO without the right moves, and punish the foe with massive damage that can OHKO a large majority of unresisted opponents. Eel...doesn't have this quality; most if not all of its matchups are either won by the opponent being weak to Electric STAB or 4x weak to its coverage, while generally not being strong enough to bring down Eel. Unfortunately, the majority of offensive mons can usually resort to trading 2HKOes with Eel, and Eel is even at risk of being set up on by mons such as Delphox, Virizion, Scrafty, Malamar, and other mons that can withstand Eel's neutral hits. In this regard, Eel's quality of 'chewing almost anything' only comes into play when it comes into a specially offensive setup sweeper using its boosting move, takes the boosted hit, do a chunk with Volt Switch, and switch to a check to respond. This is both a very unreliable way of checking specially offensive sweepers (most boosted Z-Moves can OHKO Eel outright, not to mention Eel is very easily worn down over time) and is a very shoddy generalized role, like how Ambipom's Fake Out nor Imposter Ditto are not catch-alls to setup sweepers, and Eel doesn't even have the decency to respond to physical attackers in this manner.

Finally, I'd want to point out that Eel is extremely linear in its role and has pretty much no room for diversity: it's already raising alarms when Assault Vest is the only viable item choice for Eel to not get 2HKOed by the entire offensive meta, but Volt Switch, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, and Giga Drain are all mandatory on Eel, meaning Eel doesn't have the option of choosing other moves, such as Knock Off, Superpower, Aqua Tail, U-turn, Dragon Pulse, etc. from its extremely expansive movepool. I genuinely cannot fathom many, if not any situation where people would be better off choosing this extremely limited Pokemon over other specialized and better alternatives.
 
Last edited:

poh

<?>
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
While Rotom has traditionally been a solid Pokemon, I haven't been seeing it do a whole lot in this meta, and its rather lackluster stats have been showing their true ugly colors. Its offensive stats are not much to be excited about and much of its power primarily comes from WispHex, which not only takes time to set up and isn't a consistent boost like Mismagius's Nasty Plot, but it is a lot easier to work around in this meta compared to last Gen due to the presence of Meloetta and faster Fire-types. Rotom's bulk is also very limiting despite the decent resistances it has, and this is very apparent in Scarf sets which usually end up Volt Switching a majority of the time since they can rarely afford to trade blows, unlike Rotom-C which can stomach even a strong unresisted hit. For non-Scarf sets, they suffer from being vulnerable to nearly every offensive threat that outspeeds it, including the 95 Speed Dark-types in Drapion and Houndoom which Mismagius can at least outrun. Even with WispHex, Rotom's Volt Switch is not that hard to stop compared to Rotom-C, Vikavolt, and even the likes of Alolan Raichu and Manectric, which can punish Electric immunities more immediately with powerful coverage moves. I'd say Rotom could use a drop to B, maybe even B-.
I heavily disagree with this nom. I've been using Rotom, mainly the Scarf set, with a lot of success lately and that's because of a couple of reasons. There aren't that many Ghost resists at the moment which makes it a nice cleaner. Rotom is also one of those mons that can tear up the typical Steelix - bulky Water - Golbat/Xatu cores which in my opinion is always a positive. It also offers you some utility due to its typing which offers you a lot of useful resistances and immunities and can therefore serve as a softcheck/emergency check to Pokemon like Braviary, Vikavolt and +1 Vivillon. It's not particularly strong but it's very effective at picking off weakened mons.

Time for my own nom

--> B+

Druddigon is a Pokemon that provides answers to the current metagame. Xatu is supercommon again and is often a teams only hazard removal and Druddigon can adapt to it by running Mold Breaker. On the other hand Druddigon is also a good Emboar repellent when running Rough Skin. Scarf Boar takes a total of 37% damage due to Rocky Helmet, Rough Skin and the Blitz recoil when hitting it which is pretty cool. Drudd is also a decent answer to Choiced Grass types like Mowtom and Sceptile and weakens Machamp the same way it weakens Emboar. Glare is also superuseful to cripple setuppers like Virizion, Vivillon and Delphox and after crippling them just send them away with a Dragon Tail.
 

Rotom @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hex
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

Disagree with neutral Rotom dropping as well. I think Scarf is way too easy to take advantage of, but I have been using zhex/wow Rotom a bunch recently and it really takes advantage of current metatrends (little ghost preperation, more Garb usage, more Plume+Lix usage as electric switchins, pressures relevant fires heavily). Rotom tears holes in balance builds that often prep heavily for Rotom-C and other electrics (Vikavolt, Druddigon, Togedemaru, protect, etc), and its speed tier is significant because it outspeeds Meloetta and can chip and get out safely. IMO it is the most splashable ghost atm, more so than Mismagius because of the utility volt switch/wow offers in circumventing a low spa and low base power move without resorting to using zghost right away. It definitely has a clearly defined, relevant, niche.
 
Guzzlord rises etc etc
Finally, this vr gained sanity.

On a more serious note, I've seen Samurott to be prospected for a rise, but I think this mon should also do so.


Clawitzer for B-/B or any higher if ever

Clawitzer's low speed left in unappealing and undiscovered, but it never disappointed me when i first used it. As everybody has said already, the usual cores you'll see consists of Lix + bulky Water + Golbat / Plume / etc. etc. Clawitzer is blessed with Mega Launcher and 120 SpA, making it one of the most powerful breakers in the tier, easily plowing through most of the said common cores by OHKOing or 2HKOing everything that doesnt resist. Thanks to Mega Launcher (and its perfectly fitting movepool), Clawitzer's chosen coverage sports high enough damage to 2HKO or OHKO what it has to. With these, there is really just Vaporeon as the only true defensive counter, which also could lose after Rocks and a layer of Spikes and a little amount of prior damage. It also has access to U-turn, which gives it another advantage on Samurott, which matches its capability of forcing a lot of switches, making it gain more momentum and deliver faster frailer teammates such as Sneasel and Sceptile. Clawitzer using Specs makes it prediction reliant, but with the right predicts, it cripples the opposing team with ease.

The fact that C+ is pretty much just mons that fit on certain teams and are somehow inconsistent in their job, I feel Clawitzer definitely needs to move up.

TL; DR: It's slow and possesses average bulk, but Clawitzer is a very effective in breaking cores in the current meta and generally a very powerful Pokemon who blasts off powerful moves drawback-free, has access to moves like Dark Pulse and U-turn which sets it apart from Samurott and Ludicolo (and is relatively stronger), and is simply not just a niche mon but rather a solid wallbreaker that needs to see more action.



Calcs:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 253-298 (62.3 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Factoring protects, this still gets past through by Claw

252+ SpA Choice Specs Clawitzer Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 176+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 192-226 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 248 HP / 176+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 144-169 (40.7 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

First thing's first, idk what potato spread does this phat thing runs, but either way, Golbat is probably the most rocks pressured mon atm, making it less consistent of a check and could easily be played and forced to switch out in repeated cycle of hits-->roost

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Vaporeon: 182-215 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery

Yup, definitely a counter, but with the proper support (or possibly flinches), Dark Pulse has a good chance of beating Vap.


might've missed a lot of stuff cause i'm so drunk rn feel free to revoke and i'll get back to you tomorrow
 

ManOfMany

I can make anything real
is a Tiering Contributor
to B-

I got reqs a while ago, but in my ladder experience this was often a really valuable pokemon. Ice-type wallbreakers like Specs Vanilluxe are really good in the metagame because of how they can break through the very common balance cores that include Steelix, Golbat, Slowbro/Vaporeon, or some other variation of pokemon that cannot tank strong Ice-type attacks. While Ice Cream is probably the better overall pokemon, Abomasnow certainly has the tools to differentiate itself.

Abomasnow @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature / Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake / Focus Blast
- Ice Shard / Energy Ball

Aboma should run a set looking something like this. The slashes here are definitely imperfect, but regardless Aboma has all the coverage it needs to be a large threat to bulky teams. Not reaching Vanilluxe's Speed Tier or power level hurts, Abomasnow can make up for it by being able to smack a Emboar/Houndoom/Incineroar on the switch with a nice Earthquake or Focus Blast. Furthermore, Aboma's resists can actually come in clutch in many situations. It's no tank, but being able to take on a Choice-locked Sceptile or Choice-locked Rotom-Mow in a pressure situation is a really cool advantage. Abomasnow can also absorb Scald from pokemon like Slowbro, Vaporeon, and Jellicent without getting as worn down as the likes of Vanilluxe. Overall, Abomasnow is a cool wallbreaker that is able to take on common bulky cores with its unique coverage, while providing more of a buffer to Grass and Water-types than Vanilluxe. It should move up to reflect its effectiveness in the current meta.
 

quziel

I am the Scientist now
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff

Guzzlord: C+ = > B
Thing is ungodly fat, is basically the best Delphox check in the tier, and beats a lot of common special attackers with ease, while maintaining really good offensive presence. Sure its weak to annoying stuff like Vikavolt, but that mon is broken, and has 0 switchins. Draco is disgusting to deal with when combined with Sludge Bomb, Dark pulse and Dragon tail easily force out slowbro, while countering slowbro in general, which is stupidly useful, and even though it doesn't have recovery, its fat enough that it doesn't matter. The AV set is fat enough that it literally takes 0 damage from basically anything.

Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7nubeta-309097
The opposing Vanilluxe used Blizzard!
It's super effective! Akira Ferrari lost 52.1% of its health!


Seismitoad: B+ = > A-
Yes, its fairly exploitable, yes, it doesn't have room for all the moves it wants, but Protect easily fixes its issues with the main grasses of the tier (rotom-mow and sceptile), which mainly run choiced sets right now, and allows you to turn a 50/50 between dying and having your counter get chunked, to a 50/50 between having your counter take a bit of damage, and your opponent swapping out. Toxic is stupidly useful for taking advantage of Slowbro, and seis is really useful for basically forcing out steelix every time the mon comes in, which is real nice considering how common lix is. Yeah it dies to Vikavolt, but what doesn't. The offensive sub-toxic set ain't half bad either.


Vikavolt: B+ = > A-
More of a reiteration of what I said last week, but this mon is insane, has literally like 2 switchins in the tier, both of which are mediocre, and actually does unlimited damage, while having 3 very viable sets. It even nullifies slowbro, OHKOing even if it boosts up to +2 with Z-Bug Buzz, which is just nasty. Good bulk, dumb power, slow pivoting, what's not to love. Could even go to A rank imo, and honestly probably could.
 
c- -> b-

Guzzlord has seen a slight influx in usage recently, more specifically specs, being another 'anti-meta' mon, finding a place on these balanced or bulky offence teams which are heavily annoyed by Mowtom and other mons like Slowbro and Sceptile, which guzz can come in freely most of the time and fire back with it's great coverage. Also taking on a myraid of other good mons right now like Delphox, Xatu, Vileplume, Houndoom, Drapion and certain variants of Barbarcle.

-------------
b+ -> a-

If the fact that the tier has very few reliable ice and freeze-dry resistances and in tandem with Vanilluxe absolutely shredding balance and bulky offence, usually forcing the opponent to sack a mon to even bring a check or counter, as usually Fire-types are easily worn down by hazards and not having the sustainable bulk to muscle a hit from Vanilluxe. Also finding a lot of opportunities to come in against mons like Golbat, Slowbro, Xatu, Slowking and Vileplume, putting your opponent in a situation where he needs to sack or let a mon take a hefty amount of damage.


-------------
b+ - b

B is far to generous for Tauros, seeing little to no usage overall and in NUPL sort of speaks for itself. The only set i've seen that's been used effectively is work up Electrium Z, which has it's merrits, but is just outclassed by the numerous amount of other stronger, faster breakers, sweepers or cleaners in the tier such as Sceptile, Emboar, Sneasel, Machamp, Virizion and even shit like Cincinno all tend to find a place on team easier than Tauros. And unlike oras where it was the premier offensive mon with a great speed tier, good coverage and sufficient attack stats, but unfortunately that's no longer the case ,_,
tbh i would even go as far to say lower than b, but not a fan of massive drops in a short period of time, plus this mon has always been meh this gen
 

Shadestep

volition immanent
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
to B-

I got reqs a while ago, but in my ladder experience this was often a really valuable pokemon. Ice-type wallbreakers like Specs Vanilluxe are really good in the metagame because of how they can break through the very common balance cores that include Steelix, Golbat, Slowbro/Vaporeon, or some other variation of pokemon that cannot tank strong Ice-type attacks. While Ice Cream is probably the better overall pokemon, Abomasnow certainly has the tools to differentiate itself.

Abomasnow @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature / Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake / Focus Blast
- Ice Shard / Energy Ball

Aboma should run a set looking something like this. The slashes here are definitely imperfect, but regardless Aboma has all the coverage it needs to be a large threat to bulky teams. Not reaching Vanilluxe's Speed Tier or power level hurts, Abomasnow can make up for it by being able to smack a Emboar/Houndoom/Incineroar on the switch with a nice Earthquake or Focus Blast. Furthermore, Aboma's resists can actually come in clutch in many situations. It's no tank, but being able to take on a Choice-locked Sceptile or Choice-locked Rotom-Mow in a pressure situation is a really cool advantage. Abomasnow can also absorb Scald from pokemon like Slowbro, Vaporeon, and Jellicent without getting as worn down as the likes of Vanilluxe. Overall, Abomasnow is a cool wallbreaker that is able to take on common bulky cores with its unique coverage, while providing more of a buffer to Grass and Water-types than Vanilluxe. It should move up to reflect its effectiveness in the current meta.
I really don't think Abomasnow is a good pick on most teams when Vanilluxe is available. It's better in almost every aspect, has less weaknesses, and has a better speed tier than Abomasnow. If you were to run Abomasnow either way, I would recommend using Wood Hammer on the set since that's the only thing I really see setting it apart from Vanilluxe, being able to beat Hariyama and Cryogonal more easily. Also, Grass + Ice STABs look cool but when you realize Vanilluxe has both of these in just one move, Freeze-Dry, it'sreally not worth that much considering it's also quite a bit slower than it. I think Abomasnow is fine at C, where it sits now.

I do agree with Guzzlord moving up. While it's mostly seen as a meme or a joke mon, it actually offers quite the useful resistances, especially to most fire types that can't hit it hard, especially when comparing it to Drampa. For example, both Houndoom and Delphox can hit Drampa for neutral damage with their other STAB-moves, while they're both either not very effective or even completely immune. Guzzlord's ability to switch in to the rising star of the meta Delphox and only having to fear the really uncommon Dazzling Gleam, as well as completely walling S-rank Mons like Slowbro and Rotom-Mow (and Sceptile locked into anything but Focus Blast), combined with the fact that it is really really really hard to switch in to (unless you have Hariyama), makes me believe it warrants a rise. Guzzlord to B.

Uxie and Whimsicott should also drop. I haven't seen Uxie perform well at all in both NUPL, NU League, and suspect ladder, and am not impressed by it in the slightest. It just gives so many bulky Pokemon free turns or free SR, and CM Sets, while looking decent on paper, are still walled relatively easily, and it would need multiple Calm Mind boosts under its belt to really become a direct threat to most teams. Whimsicott just lacks the pure power to hang with the cool guys, being Sceptile and Rotom-Mow, while not being bulky enough to always be a useful pivot or support Poke. It was cool at first, but Fairy STAB doesn't really do much for it and it's stil easily walled by Steelix, Golbat, etc. Both should drop to A-.

About Samurott, I think it's a really cool Pokemon and it's certainly unexplored, but there's way too many fast Grass-types in the tier for Samurott to really shine. Sceptile, Rotom-Mow, and Virizion, all don't really care about an Aqua Jet, even at +2, and Rindo Berry Samurott doesn't work either since Specs Sceptile and Rotom-Mow still OHKO it through Rindo. Buginium Z SD is certainly the best set for it, threatening most bulky teams that don't run Jellicent as their bulky water, and it does indeed force bulky teams to play more aggresively and make offensive (double-)switches, but it's still not enough to warrant a rise I feel. Samurott needs way too much support to ever become a cleansweeping threat like it was in ORAS NU, and is almost never a big threat. Keep Samurott at B+.
 
Whimsicott just lacks the pure power to hang with the cool guys, being Sceptile and Rotom-Mow, while not being bulky enough to always be a useful pivot or support Poke. It was cool at first, but Fairy STAB doesn't really do much for it and it's stil easily walled by Steelix, Golbat, etc.
Specs whimsicott is the best set imo. Saying its fairy STAB "doesn't really do much for it" is silly when 90% of the time it just clicks moonblast. We need to stop this VR trend where we compare completely different pokemon (whimsicott vs rotom-c for example) because they're both offensive or defensive and share a type. Whimsicott is completely different from rotom-c, and it has distinctions that make it usable over sceptile much of the time as well. Sure, the speed tier between Sceptile and whimsicott is similar, but whimsicott almost exclusively relies on its fairy STAB to do damage. Fairy STAB is much better than grass STAB in NU, and it makes whimsicott's defensive typing way better than sceptile's. Sceptile for example is huge bait to be trapped by sneasel/skuntank/drapion, making it a liability once it has clicked leaf storm. Whimsicott resists dark and doesn't fear repeated pursuits from the trappers that commonly abuse sceptile. It's defensive typing also lets it come in directly on lum virizion for example, while its speed tier allows it to outspeed virizion and its superior STAB (opposed to grass) allows it to revenge kill virizion after slight chip (machamp bp, skuntank sucker, any u-turn, rotom vswitch, etc).

Also, whimsicott is not walled by steelix.

252 SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Energy Ball vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 186-219 (52.8 - 62.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

or even golbat

252 SpA Choice Specs Whimsicott Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 176-208 (49.7 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Last move can be hp ground for togedemaru and poison types, or switcheroo/stun spore with prankster

Finally, infiltrator easily allows whimsicott to break through veil teams. And veil's broken!

So yeah don't drop whimsicott. And especially don't base it off people using bad sets like z-moonblast or pixie plate encore
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top