Simply the Best - Gen4 OU

[george182]

Simply the Best

After buying myself a nice shiny new laptop, I realised all my pokemon teams were saved on my old laptop. So I decide it was a good time to forget all my old teams and start building myself some new ones and I had a lot of trouble deciding which was my favorite play style. I was stuck with the age old battle of Stall vs Offense. I found that a mixture of the two was quite strong against offensive teams, as it was very adaptable at dealing with threats, but had a hard time breaking stall as it struggled to maintain momentum. This wasn't the style I wanted, I wanted something which would do all right against anything and I started using a lot of stall as this seemed the best style for combating everything. However after using all different kinds of stall I found it was always hard to gain control of match and I felt like every move I made had to be a really solid choice. If I made a mistake or a bad play it became much harder than it normally would to win, I found that loosing a pokemon makes a stall team much weaker than it would for other teams.

In the end I found what I all I already knew, that offense is my favourite play style and this team is the best one that I have been using. It's full of standard pokemon and standard combinations of pokemon such as FWG, Dragon/Steel, Starmie/Metagross, so it's a little boring, but it does the job. The basic idea of the team is to use good defensive synergy to keep up offensive pressure beating opponents down so that they can be swept. As a bonus it can handle entry hazards, status and phazers etc, which means I can afford to make a mistake because you can't always "maintain momentum" and your opponent will gain free turns against you. For what I was looking for, this team is "Simply the Best".

Item: Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid

• Hydro Pump
• Ice Beam
• Thunderbolt
• Rapid Spin

Offensive Starmie has become my favourite lead, it's just such a powerful sweeper with amazing type coverage from its attacks. Starmie isn't just a threat to offensive teams, but can also pose a threat to defensive teams due to rapid spin and the ability to destroy Rotom-A. In the lead position Starmie normally has the advantage and can prevent stealth rocks from going up. Starmie works well on the team keeping Stealth rocks and Toxic spikes off the field, making my sweepers more effective. I can afford to be aggressive with Starmie because I have Gyarados who has a simular typing, which makes it easier for me to rapid spin.

Item: Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 speed
Nature: Adamant

• Zen Headbutt
• Bullet Punch
• Stealth Rock
• Explosion

The Starmie/Metagross combination has a great lead matchup allowing me to get an advantage early on. Metagross is a great stealth rock user because its so bulky and very few things can OHKO it. For the ev's I just maxed out attack for more power, 40 speed is to beat Brelooms and Skarmorys so I can explode of them before they do anything annoying. 216 hp is the leftover ev's put into Hp to maximise Metagross' bulk. I'm using Bullet punch because its a really useful move, especially against things like Gengar. Explosion is also really useful and it allows me to use Metagross as a back up check to things like Suicune. I'm using Zen Headbutt over the more standard Meteor Mash like Conflict suggested as it helps Metagross out against Rotom, Swampert and Zapdos etc.

Item: Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Jolly

• Outrage
• Earthquake
• ThunderPunch
• U-turn

I'm using Flygon because it just looks so cool, it's also useful for checking so many sweepers. Flygon is blessed with a great typing, loads of useful resistances and a great duel stab makes it a really useful pokemon. Flygon has a really good type synergy with my team, making it easy for Flygon to switch in. It's also handy to have a ground type pokemon so I can absorb T-waves. Flygon also makes a surprisingly good sweeper, although its main purpose is just to keep a load of sweepers in check. I prefer Jolly Flygon because it outspeeds things like +2 Tyranitar and it allows me to speed tie everyone else who uses Jolly. I also like Flygon because he can use U-turn, abusing the fact he forces loads of switches.

Item: Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Nature: Calm

• Flamethrower
• Earthpower
• Substitute
• Wil-O-Wisp

Heatran is the first member of my Fire/Water/Grass core. I chose special defensive Heatran because its a great check to those pesky electric special attackers and is also useful against stall teams. I've tried loads of sets on this team from Tormentran, restalk and even taunt roar, however this set is my favourite. Abusing the fact that Heatran can easily get a substitute up and with a simple moveset Heatran finds it surprisingly easy to punish teams. The ev's are very simple, max hp and sp.def to tank hits and the 4 spare ev's go into speed to beat other Heatrans. Despite not having any special attack ev's Heatran still has almost 300 special attack, so it still does a tone of damage. This set has good synergy with Gyarados, crippling pokemon such as water types with Wil-O-Wisp, something that Gyarados can abuse with the use of Bounce. I chose Wil-O-Wisp over the more common choice of Toxic as I prefer the constant 1/8th damage as this is an offensive team and it forces a lot of switches. The halving of physical attack is also really useful for crippling common Heatran counters such as Gyarados, Swampert, Tyranitar and Flygon.

Item: Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spd
Nature: Adamant

• Dragon Dance
• Taunt
• Waterfall
• Bounce

Gyarados is my favourite sweeper at the moment because it is the easiest to set up, once set up it's really effective and it can sweep through Fire/Water/Grass core teams. Gyarados has great synergy with my team, his weaknesses and resistances fit in well with my other pokemon. He compliments the team defensively checking threats like Lucario, Brelloom and Infernape and he also works well offensively. I'm using Bounce because it is such an effective move on Gyarados allowing him to OHKO pokemon like Starmie (97.7% - 114.9%) and Shaymin (130.2% - 153.7%). It also works well with leftovers allowing me to recover more Hp. It compliments waterfall nicely with great neutral coverage and it gets the STAB bonus. For the ev's I'm using max attack so its easier for me to sweep through pokemon like Rotom and Starmie. I'm using taunt because it's a really useful move against phazers, status users and restalkers such as Rotom. The speed ev's allow me to beat +1 positive nature base 100's after 2 dragon dances, which is very handy for beating scarfed Flygons.

Item: Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SAtk / 180 Spd
Nature: Timid

• Leech Seed
• Protect
• Seed Flare
• Hidden Power [Fire]

Shaymin is a really underused considering how useful it is, it can be very hard for a lot of teams to handle. Shaymin is also very useful defensively checking pokemon like Suicune, Lucario and Gyarados. I'm using the set recommended by Raikiri as the extra bulk is extremely useful along with protect and leech seed to keep Shaymin healthy. Leech seed is great for sapping away at Shaymin counters and makes it easier for me to respond to their counter. Hiden power fire is chosen to hit grass types that are immune to leech seed and it also hits Skarmory, Forretress and Scizor who also like to switch into Shaymin. Also I have little use for Hp ice and Earthpower as I have Heatran and Dragonite quite well covered. Protect is also very useful for keeping bounce Gyarados' at bay.

 

[Braseg257]

Good team, i like it.
Just a thing to say: if you're locked into thunderpunch or you think to use thunderbolt against empoleon or gyarados, an electivire, if switched-in, can threat your team: +1 electivire can outspeed your team except for flygon. if you're locked in thunderpunch electivire can easily kill you with ice punch. a switch can save flygon, but shaymin is hit hard, gyarados is OHKO with thunder punch such as starmie, heatran is OHKO with earthquake and metagross can take an earthquake (i think) but he can only explode to kill electivire. if flygon and metagross are KO, your team is really vulnerable to blissey. the pink blob can wall starmie, heatran and shaymin very easily and a +0 waterfall doesn't OHKO she, if you set up with gyarados toxic will kill you. Taunt can stop toxic, softboiled and co but seismic toss hurt you more as your lava plume can hurt blissey. I suggest you to run earthquake > Stealth rocks on metagross and then run Stealth rocks > Protect on heatran. Just a situation that can happen in a battle, for the rest this is a very cool team

 

[Tomahawk]

Hey geo182, this seems like a solid team. Still using Starmie/Metagross, aren't you? ;)

Anyways, you actually could have a little trouble with Swords Dance Lucario, who can setup against ThunderPunch or Outrage-locked Flygon, or can force out Heatran. After that, Gyarados is your best switchin, but Stone Edge Lucario is becoming more and more common, and even Crunch Lucario does 58.1% - 68.5% with ExtremeSpeed, meaning with a little bit of residual damage, Gyarados is gone (Stealth Rock weakness isn't helping here). Flygon is OHKOed by a +2 ExtremeSpeed, meaning your only chance of beating Lucario is switching to Gyarados as they Swords Dance, sac Gyarados, and switch to Flygon to take a +1 ExtremeSpeed and Earthquake. If he sets up on Flygon Outraging, it's gg.
Dragon Dance Kingdra can cause you trouble, as it can set up on Heatran, Starmie, Gyarados, Metagross if you can't sac it yet. Your best way of dealing with is revenging with Flygon, which isn't something I would call reliable. Besides that, you can try luring an Outrage with Shaymin and switching to Metagross after Shaymin is dead to Explode. Not as much of a threat as Lucario, but still threatening.
Curse Snorlax can set up on Heatran, Starmie, or Shaymin (when lucky :P) and after that, nothign on your team can KO it or take it attacks easily. It can set up a Curse while you switch to Metagross or Gyarados, set up another Curse, Rest, and sweep. Metagross's Explosion is your only way of dealing with it, but a switch to Rotom-A will take care of that, leaving you open to a CurseLax sweep.

To fix this, you could go more defensive and use Skarmory > Metagross. While he doesn't have the offensive power Metagross has, he can take on the aforementioned threats quite well. He can take a Close Combat from Lucario, and Brave Bird for the KO after the defense drop. Kingdra can't harm Skarmory and gets phazed out, while Snorlax is dealt with the same, not being able to hurt Skarmory. He can also set up Spikes if you want. The exact set is:

Hide

Skarmory @ Leftovers | Keen Eye
Impish | 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Brave Bird or Spikes / Whirlwind / Roost / Stealth Rock

Good luck!

 

[kosher ryan]

ur gross kinda seems like a weak link in the team. i would say switch bullet punch for either t-punch/EQ/ or stone edge. and id go with an occa berry over the lum seeing as the only pokemon that have will-o-wisp are very recognizable(AKA rotom, dusknoir) other than that i like the gyrados and starmie :)

 

[BKC]

I dunno Tomahawk, I'm not seeing the Lucario weakness. Sure, Gyara isn't the most stable of checks with its Stealth Rock weakness, but Starmie is incredibly efficient at keeping SR off the field, and Shaymin serves as a good backup Luke check. In any case, Skarmory isn't the way to solve that problem, seeing as Luke's +2 Life Orb Close Combat deals 84.4% - 99.7%, and keeping Skarm that healthy isn't easy. I don't see Kingdra as a problem either; +2 Waterfall doesn't even do half to Metagross, so as long as Meta isn't played recklessly, it can blow up for the KO. Also, Flygon is as good a check as ever.

Anyways...this team is really well constructed and is ideal late-DPP bulky offense; it carries out its gameplan while simultaneously dealing with pretty much every threat out there. The only threat I really see is DD Shuca Tyranitar, who beats your main check to it, Flygon, and can sweep you clean if Metagross is weakened / dead. It's not necessary, but if I were you I'd throw SR on Heatran over Roar (you're not abusing it enough imo, without multiple hazards) and then drop Metagross for SD Lucario. ShucaTar runs its two STABs and Ice Punch, meaning Luke completely walls it. Luke is also a natural fit for this team, since it pairs very well with Gyarados.

Just something to consider, I think it's worth testing. Good team, gl

 

[Raikiri]

This is a great team geo. I'm glad to see you still playing 4th gen too. The only thing that bugs me about this team is how well you deal with other LO Starmie. Shaymin is a natural counter for it, but not really. IF rocks are on the field, your Shaymin is not safe to switch in. A Hydro Pump+Ice Beam will kill it. Your Flygon could revenge kill, but that wouldn't stop them from switching out and coming back to KO something else. I think the best you could do is just change your Shaymin set.

Leech Seed Shaymin

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect
- Leech Seed

It does everything your current Shaymin can do except take out Heatran in one shot. I don't find Heatran much of a threat but Leech Seed+Protect does a big number to him anyway, while healing the next poke you decide to switch to. U-Turn pokes hate this set btw. Most importantly, you will always dodge the 2HKO from Starmie.

 

[B-Zard]

Hey, this seems a solid team tbh. I have a few small suggestions though. First you might want to try out a lead Forretress which replaces your Starmie and takes over the role from Metagross. I am not sure about the Ev spread etc. since it is not a really common used lead. This is the set:

Lead Forretress set

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Hp | 144 Def | 112 Spdef
Impish Nature (+Def/-Spatt)
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes/ Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Payback

Forretress had pretty damn good synergy with the rest of your team and should be reliable of removing entry hazards when used correctly.

Last thing is your Starmie. If you choose Forry you already have a spinner, so I think it is wise to replace Starmie with another bulky water. Vaporeon might be a solid choice since it has access to Wish to increase the longevity of your team. Gyara, Tran and Shaymin are pretty good at walling stuff, especially if Shaymin has Leech Seed up, but they really lack a recovery move since Leech Seed's damage can be prevented if the opponent switches (not that bad since they get more entry hazard damage). This is the set that you might want to use:

Vaporeon set

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/ 252 Def/ 56 Spdef/ 8 Spatt/ 4 Speed
Bold Nature (+Def,-Att)
- Wish
- Protect
- Surf
- Roar

Wish is to heal yourself and your team which I already told you. Roar is mostly for DDers who try to set up in your face, so you can see more of your opponents team (if you haven't already seen it) and off course for entry hazard damage/poison status (if you choose Toxic Spikes on Forry). Surf is just for damage and it is STABed. Protect so you're ensured you will get the Wish recovery. It also works great with stalling out poison damage.

Hope I helped you and good luck with your team!

 

[ENZ0]

george182,

cool team! the team looks very solid with a few to no weaknesses at all depending how you look at it. i'm just gonna try to polish it up a bit with my rate, and hopefully it will make your team even better!

i'll start off by mentioning your offensive and defensive weaknesses, and work off of them to improve your team. the offensive weaknesses i noticed are the following: sd lucario and starmie, while the defensive weaknesses are: blissey, forretress, roserade, and skarmory. To help against blissey, I suggest giving starmie a choice specs. it should look like starmie @ choice specs | timid nature | 4 hp / 252 spa / 252 spe | rapid spin / hydro pump / psychic OR ice beam OR thunderbolt / trick. from the start stall teams will get screwed over if they switch in blissey, just watch out for tyranitar and grass-types. psychic also gives you a nice ko on most roserade and machamp, which is cool. to help against forretress and skarmory i'm going to have to suggest using hidden power fire on shaymin. hidden power ice is definitely cool for dragonite and substitute zapdos, but your heatran and flygon handle those well anyways so i wouldn't worry too much about them. the trade-off might be a bit hard, but i think that is one of the simple and best ways to hit forretress and skarmory. SD Lucario can't really set up on your team, but it is definitely something to watch out for with a +2 boost. if you want added protection you could use some hp evs on shaymin, something like 252 hp / 76 spa / 180 spe could work but it does take away substantial power. if not, just make sure to play your gyarados cautiously, which i'm sure you already do. the bulky spread would also help against starmie, which you have no sturdy switch-in for at the moment. as a last light suggestion, you could use explosion over taunt on heatran for blissey and the likes, but taunt seems very cool from what you have explained. everything else seems fine to me; there is not much to change. congratulations on a successful team man!

hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[george182]

BKC pretty much answered the previous posts, although I disagree with the shuca tar weakness, a U-turn from Flygon followed by a Bullet punch from metagross will always KO a 4hp Tyranitar and the incoming ice punch will barely scratch metagross, this stratergy is also great because it utilises u-turn (so they can't get a switch advanatge) and surprise as people don't often expect bullet punch metagross. If either of them is down, I still have Shaymin. Taunt, Roar Heatran works surprisingly well considering there are no entry hazards, they are mainly there to stop stall recovering and pokemon from setting up on Heatran. Taunt works excellently with Burn hax and roar is also useful for scouting early game.

I see quite a few comments suggesting Metagross gets removed, but Metagross fits in with the simplicity of the team, Metagross doesn't need to be removed, makes it very easy to get the advantage from turn 1 and is a great defensive rock helping check so many threats. Metagross also means I don't have to use SR Heatran. Metragross has a Lum berry for switching into leads such as Machamp and Roserade.

Thanks to Enzo's suggestion I've changed Shaymin to a HP fire varient as this helps against Stall and I have Dragonite well covered, while Flygon/Gliscor don't enjoy Seed Flares. Blissey really isn't a proplem as Shaymin can just leech seed it and then I just go to any pokemon and heal them up from the leech seed. Metagross is always a great switch in and Gyarados uses Blissey as set up fodder. But after a leech seed I typically go to Heatran.

I don't really want to use a Forretress or Skarmory. While they can work on offensive teams, I really like to use this team to constantly apply pressure and Skarmory/Forretress don't allow me to do that. For the same reason I want to keep Shaymin with maximum special attack, so that the team is more offensive. The extra bulk really isn't very helpful and it kind of counteracts leech seed, with Shaymin's current ev's it will always live a Hydro Pump + Ice beam assuming no stealth rocks, even with sandstorm in play and max Hp achieves nothing better. Protect, while useful for keeping Shaymin healthy, is just asking to get abused by a good player and scouting choiced moves doesn't help Shaymin much as most pokemon will always u-turn Shaymin anyway. I don't agree with it being good against U-turners, as it encourages leech seed spam, which just invites u-turners and while you get the extra 1/8 damage, you've still lost momentum. Also with Heatran being such a prominent pokemon, it just makes earthpower a really good move to have.

 

[Conflict]

Hey man this is a really solid team but there are some small changes that will make your team substantially better. By the way it looks really similar to one of my Teams i made in summer 2010 (i had Skarm over Metagross and Rotom-A instead Gyarados + some different sets) so im quite familiar how this team is played and i think my suggestions will make your team even better.

Change Metagross Meteor Mash to the move Zen Headbutt. Whats my reasoning behind this change?
Well Meteor Mash isnt really needed on Metagross because it isnt used as a Lead for your team and Meteor Mash's purpose was beating other common Lead like Azelf, etc. Zen Headbutt on the other Hands 3hkoes defensives Rotom-A, which is crucial (hit it once on the switch, then again when it uses wow vs your lum berry and then finish it off with it!) and enables you to damage common switch-ins to Metagross such as Zapdos, Gyarados, Swampert. Oh and as a Bonus you now have a good shot to OHKO Machamp (93.4% - 110.2% ~70% chance), you ohko Spikes-Roserade as well as Breloom and some other stuff i forgot right now.
Essentially this makes your Metagross better vs. defensive Teams and lets you explode easier (because now Metagross can deal with all Ghosts).

After you did this change consider a new EV-Spread for Metagross such as 92 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe, which lets your Metagross outspeed the common Resttalk-Rotom-A and Gyarados as well as Agility Empoleon which enables you to use Explosion vs Empoleon before it can put a sub up (situational but can come in handy more like ~20 Speed-EV's).

Other options that might be useful:
Use max Special Attack as well as a Modest Nature which enables Shaymin to 2hko SDef-Skarmory after SR. But up the Speed-EV's of Shaymin then so you still tie with max Speed Rotom-A and outspeed Suicune and Adamant Lucario.

Try Rest over Protect on Heatran and change Leftovers to a Chesto Berry. Chesto-Rest-SDef-Heatran works really good in these Semi-stall teams as a defensive Pivot and enables Heatran to check Threats as Zapdos really effectively. Oh and without Hazards i think Roar isnt the best move to have so maybe change that to either Toxic,Dragon Pulse or Earth Power. Toxic is really cool vs. Zapdos and Watermons like Vaporeon or even Blissey and does wonders together with Taunt (It also hits pretty much all of Heatrans Switch-Ins and cripples them!). Dragon Pulse hits these pesky Dragons exspecially Kingdra for a good amount of damage. Whereas Earth Power helps vs. opposing Heatrans but i think you have that already well covered so it isnt really necessary. Overall i think Toxic is the best Option here.

You also might wanna give Stone Edge a shot on Flygon over Thunderpunch so you are able to deal a good amount of damage to Zapdos and revenge a weakened Dragonite without locking yourself into Outrage. Thunderpunch is really neat vs Gyarados but Gyarados has a bit of a problem setting up (only chance to safely set-up is Heatran and then he risks a Lava Plume Burn on the switch or getting roared away and you have Gyarados, Shaymin as insurance, not to mention SE still deals a ton to Gyara).

 

[george182]

Thanks for the rate Conflict, I have decided to change Heatran's and Shaymin's sets as you suggested, but to different ones than you recommended. I'm not a huge fan of the one off use of a chesto berry and much prefer the always useful leftovers, but I did go for a more offensive moveset.

With earthpower on Heatran I really felt like I should change Shaymin's set as it seemed redundant to have so many pokemon that can Ko opposing Heatrans and I did miss not having the Leech Seed + Protect combination.

I'm not going to use stone edge on Flygon as I like having thunderpunch as a back up check to Gyarados and Heatran is a great Zapdos check.

I've changed to Zen Headbutt as you suggested, but without the extra speed ev's as I like Metagross' bulk.

 

[Jullopne]

I really enjoyed this post, especially the “examples in this post” portion which made it really easy for me to SEE what you were talking about without even having to leave the article. Thanks