I've been wondering, aside from power consistency and being stronger vs. Megas, does Thief have any viability over Knock Off? Personally, I think getting rid of Knock Off for Thief is a joke for obvious reasons, but maybe it gets 2HKOs that Knock Off can't (for all sets having Knock Off)?
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Pokémon Scizor
- Thread starter Celticpride
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How do people feel about Defog on the CB set? SP BP and u-turn seems all you need for damage, and whilst choiced defog sucks it seems nice for teams that cannot fit it elsewhere. I say this because SR + spike stacking teams are on the rise in response to some archtypes not prioritising hazard removal.
Do you know a good set there that maintains power?
I haven't run one so unfortunately I don't. Scizor is still pretty strong without the Choice Band, so you can probably run a similar spread to the CB set since you want to maximize bulk and power. Sorry I don't have a better answer for you, maybe someone else will have one
Adding to this, I generally feel Roost is an option worth considering, and that max speed isn't necessary at all. You only need to run enough to beat BD Azumarill iirc; the rest can go in HP.
If you want to get fancy, 32 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 216 Spe gives you a LO number + enough speed for standard 44 Spe Rotom-W (which is OHKO'd by +2 Bug Bite). Spare EVs in Def.
Adamant would generally be the best nature in terms of raw power but i can see Jolly max Spe being worth it in a select few cases. For example, outrunning Max Spe Adamant Offensive Mega Scizor and OHKOing with Superpower as well as outspeeding Adamant Bisharp is kinda cool. You would also outspeed Defensive base 100s which run enough for Neutral 70s such as Tentacruel and Jirachi.
- +2 252 Atk Life Orb Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 255-300 (90.7 - 106.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- +2 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Tentacruel: 270-320 (75.6 - 89.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- +2 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 383-452 (94.8 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
- +2 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 270-320 (89.1 - 105.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- +2 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 320-378 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
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I know it's a coverage loss, but is there viable room for Defog on the newfangled Orb Scizor? I'm looking for a Spinner/Fogger that'll still keep my team an Offense team that isn't Legendary or a GenIV HM exclusive, and so far I've only come up with Excadrill and Starmie. If base Scizor is a viable possibility for that spot, I'd love to use it since Scizor is my favorite bug type, and one of my favorite Pokemon overall. (Also I already have Rotom-W on the team in the case of using Starmie).
Not really, if anything I'd run Impish (Mega/Leftovers) Scizor with max Def+HP and Bullet Punch + U-Turn/Knock Off, if you really wanted to you could go Adamant max HP+Atk, but Roost and Defog (duh!) are kind of mandatory for Defog Scizor, Scizor still hits quite hard without LO so the extra stats from going Mega or the extra recovery from Leftovers is probably more useful.
I'll give it a shot. My Mega is already Gallade, so Arm Cannon Scizor isn't an option. I'm mainly looking for a hyper offense replacement for Greninja since I still haven't found one since his ban, and I figured since I didn't have hazard removal, I'd look there first. Sadly, non-legendary offensive removers seem to be rare creatures.
Starmie is pretty much the best Greninja replacement you'll find, it's fast, hit's hard, has good coverage and has hazard removal.
Scizor is more of a bulky pivot when used as a defogger (if using U-Turn especially), it still hits decently hard, but it's slow and bulky, rather than fast and frail.
Isn't this set largely outclassed by the fast SD Mega Scizor set? Even with the extra power added with the life orb aren't the perks of running a mega scizor greater than those of a regular scizor? The bulk lets it survive a lot more hits and makes better use of its phenominal defensive typing. As well as the lack of life orb recoil. I just ran some calcs to see the damage differences.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 408-481 (103.5 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 348-410 (88.3 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
While it does have a little more power over mega scizor it just doesn't seem worth it to me. If you want to run base scizor its best set is the choice band set beyond a reasonable doubt. Other then that all its other sets are outclassed by its big bro mega scizor.
It is of course entirely outclassed by Mega Scizor; all it's sets aside from Band are without a doubt. But the point is that you might want to run Scizor and a different Mega, such as Pidgeot or Blastoise who could even support a sweep.
In theory, would a non-mega Scizor as a Defogger work well? To my knowledge, it's the only good Pokémon that has defog and is not weak to rocks aside from Lati@s - and Gliscor, but losing poison heal is a real pain - and not being weak to pursuit while still having some damn nice offensive presence is great. Of course, it misses out on a lot of bulk by not choosing Scizorite, but I'm wondering if this could work it's way onto balance teams as an alternative option to Lati@s if you want to use another Mega like Venusaur and you don't want to be dark weak and whatnot.
Honestly not really. I'd rather use Togekiss as a Defogger if I'm too Dark weak. At least with cleric Togekiss (a C- rank set imo) ya get Heal Bell. Defog Scizor pretty much has to carry Roost, and then you are left with a weak BP and U-Turn, which is easy as heck to check (see Therian, Landorus). That, and Defog Mega Scizor isn't really all that good to begin with, I believe it was either QC rejected or moved to OO.
Oh yeah, use Togekiss w/ Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Defog, Roost, and enough speed to outspeed Bisharp. It's possibly the only Defogger that can Defog, outspeed Bish, take a +2 Sucker Punch, and OHKO in return.
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It needs to run timid 176 speed to outspeed jolly Bisharp and if it defogs on AV Bisharp it loses unless it runs LO and a decent amount of SpA investment.
Hi. I'm breeding for a new mega scizor to make a sword dance bulky one (impish nature, sword dance/bullet punch/knock off/roost). But I have troubles to find what EV to give!
I read many things:
248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD
or
248 HP / 44 Atk / 40 Def / 176 SpD
or
248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
or
248 HP / 16 Atk / 44 Def / 200 SpD
176/200Sdef to avoid 2KHO from Mega Gardevoir's Focus Blast / OKHO from Clefable's Fire Blast.
44 def to avoid 2KHO from mega lopunny HJK.
So the best idea might be something like : 248 HP / 16 Atk / 44 Def / 200 SpD. But for now I absolutly don't know what is the best! SOme EV spreads looks like from old metagame.
Could you please help me to find out what's the best option?
I read many things:
248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD
or
248 HP / 44 Atk / 40 Def / 176 SpD
or
248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
or
248 HP / 16 Atk / 44 Def / 200 SpD
176/200Sdef to avoid 2KHO from Mega Gardevoir's Focus Blast / OKHO from Clefable's Fire Blast.
44 def to avoid 2KHO from mega lopunny HJK.
So the best idea might be something like : 248 HP / 16 Atk / 44 Def / 200 SpD. But for now I absolutly don't know what is the best! SOme EV spreads looks like from old metagame.
Could you please help me to find out what's the best option?
To contribute, and based on what we've talked about before Mr. Goodra, I've got a semi decent non-Mega Defog Scizor set I've come up with and used a lot:
Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-turn / Knock Off / Superpower
It has the obvious moves are obvious, and the last slot can be for momentum, utility and item removal, or if your team is very scared of Bisharp for some reason. As far as EVs, running an Adamant nature gives it literally exactly enough power to OHKO 24 Def Mega Gardevoir after Rocks (88.8 - 104.6%), which was the threshold I aimed for. I do not recall exactly why I put 200 SpD in, but it gives it enough bulk to only be 2HKO'd 53% of the time from a Timid 232 SPA Gardevoir's Focus Blast after Rocks, and generally adds to it's Special bulk well. I know I aimed for a number or something to withstand, but that was made a while ago. The 60 Def were left over after I hit whatever number I wanted to on Attack and SpD, and were just plopped into Defense to absorb hits from Mamoswine and the like better.
Calcs:
So yeah, not the BEST Scizor, but a pretty dang good "jack of all trades" as far as hazard control, priority, momentum, and defensiveness goes. I've found it quite effective on my teams. I just wish I remember exactly what the EVs I made were for. I didn't rip them from the site analysis; it's just coincidental they are the same numbers. I remember I came up with them myself for something...
Also, Celticpride, the Defog set was neither rejected or moved to OO. It was in the most recent analysis, which is the one currently uploaded to the strategy dex. It is last on the list mind you, but it was kept due to it's uniquness, and Mega Scizor's extreme bulk to pull off a Defog well. I tried to find the old QC thread in the archives to quote the reasoning provided, but can't right now so I'm paraphrasing, but the one on site is the most current one. That's an analysis I was lurking on frequently.
EDIT: Oh cool post 700.
Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-turn / Knock Off / Superpower
It has the obvious moves are obvious, and the last slot can be for momentum, utility and item removal, or if your team is very scared of Bisharp for some reason. As far as EVs, running an Adamant nature gives it literally exactly enough power to OHKO 24 Def Mega Gardevoir after Rocks (88.8 - 104.6%), which was the threshold I aimed for. I do not recall exactly why I put 200 SpD in, but it gives it enough bulk to only be 2HKO'd 53% of the time from a Timid 232 SPA Gardevoir's Focus Blast after Rocks, and generally adds to it's Special bulk well. I know I aimed for a number or something to withstand, but that was made a while ago. The 60 Def were left over after I hit whatever number I wanted to on Attack and SpD, and were just plopped into Defense to absorb hits from Mamoswine and the like better.
Calcs:
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 246-290 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 164-194 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0+ Atk Scizor U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 103-123 (37.8 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 156-186 (39.5 - 47.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 188-224 (47.7 - 56.8%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 328-388 (136 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 252-300 (104.5 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 216-254 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-B: 200-236 (51.1 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-B: 200-236 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
- 0+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 246-290 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor: 108-128 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor: 148-175 (43.1 - 51%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor: 89-105 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 56 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 60 Def Scizor: 146-172 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (32.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery)
- 252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor: 127-151 (37 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 60 Def Scizor: 153-181 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor: 87-102 (25.3 - 29.7%) -- 92.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 60 Def Scizor: 125-150 (36.4 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
So yeah, not the BEST Scizor, but a pretty dang good "jack of all trades" as far as hazard control, priority, momentum, and defensiveness goes. I've found it quite effective on my teams. I just wish I remember exactly what the EVs I made were for. I didn't rip them from the site analysis; it's just coincidental they are the same numbers. I remember I came up with them myself for something...
Also, Celticpride, the Defog set was neither rejected or moved to OO. It was in the most recent analysis, which is the one currently uploaded to the strategy dex. It is last on the list mind you, but it was kept due to it's uniquness, and Mega Scizor's extreme bulk to pull off a Defog well. I tried to find the old QC thread in the archives to quote the reasoning provided, but can't right now so I'm paraphrasing, but the one on site is the most current one. That's an analysis I was lurking on frequently.
EDIT: Oh cool post 700.
Just to note and expanding on Seth Vilo's points, that Scizor can pivot pretty well into Kyurem-B, which not many mons can boast. It can life orb stall Kyube to death if it doesn't carry roost. It's also nice to have a defog user that can grab momentum, and with an Adamant nature it's still powerful enough for most fairies. Fairly underrated approach to Scizor imo.
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...So... Pursuit isn't slashed on the Band set why? It's still a solid option on Lati weak teams and it can free up like a spot for Bisharp or something. I can understand why it isn't slashed, but I've used it extensively and it can do really good.
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