Sandygast, Palossand Discussion

Honestly he probably is going to be low tier like Golurk. They have a lot in common. Typing, restorative attacking moves, similar strength etc. The defense boosting ability is the best thing he has to differentiate himself from Golurk, and it's going to be very hard to use that without dying in singles.

He seems more like a doubles Pokemon who just gets defense boosts from a partner and then.... That's it.

First we got a garbage bag, 3 ice cream cones, and now this?

Golurk seems to be offensive while this... sand castle (Palossand) is physically defensive and special attacker. Palossand stats does not match its ability one bit. NU material.
Believe it or not there are fans of anthropomorphic objects instead of the overabundant animal/dragon designs. A possessed sandcastle that buries and suffocates Pikachus before eating them is awesome. Kinda of surprised people are still finally seeing these Pokemon ages agesa after their reveals.
 
With the right partner a weakness policy would be great. Take a very low damage surf from a Toxapex, get huge boost, heal up, then start wreaking havoc
It likely wont be sweeping outside trickroom but it can definitely cripple the opposing team with Shadow Ball, Earth Power, Giga Drain.
 
They basically killed him when when they made Water Compaction not give him a Water immunity.

The lack of Will-o-wisp is just beating a dead horse.

Wait, he doesn't get Shadow Sneak either. A complete joke.
 
It may seem Palossand's Water Compaction is somewhat useless, but I think it can have a niche use switching into Aqua Jet or burned Water types, especially on a physically defensive set. Hopefully they add an immunity in the future like they did with Storm Drain and Lightning Rod, although I don't personally see it happening.
 

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Hmm, I think this might suppose to be a trap for Water-types.

It's slow a slow, has high Defense and Special Attack, okay everywhere else. Just okay Special Defense doesn't help with the most powerful Water-type moves being Special. However if you're not looking to use Water Compaction and/or trapping Water-types you could use its Hidden Ability.

It gets the only two STABs it could have (Shadow Ball and Earth Power). However its coverage is what caught my eye with it getting Giga Drain, Psychic, Sludge Bomb, and Energy Ball. So I say in a Trick Room set maybe you can surprise some Water-types with a Giga Drain. But that's not all the healing it can do, Shore Up sounds annoying combined with Sandstorm (and Sand Veil). It also gets Iron Defense and Hypnosis for other options. Finally Egg Moves give it Amnesia (which Water Compaction ones much need), Destiny Bond, and the trio of Stockpile/Swallow/Spit Up.

I would have thought it would get Arena Trap and Curse, but I guess maybe that'll be too much? I can see it being used on Trick Room and/or Sandstorm teams.
 
He miggght be able to exploit that new water/bug type Gliscopod since he is a physical attacker. Especially pre-bank where there's less special water types.

It may seem Palossand's Water Compaction is somewhat useless, but I think it can have a niche use switching into Aqua Jet or burned Water types, especially on a physically defensive set. Hopefully they add an immunity in the future like they did with Storm Drain and Lightning Rod, although I don't personally see it happening.
True. Would have to see how well it takes Azumarill's Aqua jet though
 
I feel like this Pokémon has a lot of potential. It has a great offensive typing, a good Special Attack, decent bulk, and two forms of recovery in Giga Drain and Shore Up. 35 Speed is a problem, but its bulk is enough to tank most hits, so it isn't rendered useless.

Here's an experimental set I came up with:

Palossand @Assault Vest
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
-Shadow Ball
-Earth Power
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb

Shadow Ball and Earth Power for STAB, Giga Drain for recovery, Sludge Bomb to hit Azumarill hard (you shouldn't be staying in against Azumarill at all, but if you're crazy enough to do so, this is an option). Assault Vest patches up its lower Special Defense. It's rekt by Azumarill no matter what you do with it, but with the given EV's you could possibly switch in on the Choice Band set if it's locked into Aqua Jet and get a free +1 in Defense, which could let you take another Aqua Jet and hit back with Sludge Bomb or Giga Drain.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Palossand: 176-210 (56.5 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. +1 0 HP / 252 Def Golurk: 116-140 (37.2 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(NOTE: This is a possibility, not a suggestion. Even with the Defense boost Azumarill is likely to kill you next turn.)
Thoughts on this set?
 
They basically killed him when when they made Water Compaction not give him a Water immunity.

The lack of Will-o-wisp is just beating a dead horse.

Wait, he doesn't get Shadow Sneak either. A complete joke.
This pokemon is a speciall attacker why tf would it get Shadow Sneak?

ANYWAYS I thought iw ould be cool to mention that Sand now has a consistent Spinblocker to make sure those hazards you set up stay up. And with Sand Veil, You can always have fun with Brightpowder shenanigans a la Gen 4. It also provide a nice switch for Tyranitar and Gigalith, both pokemon who do not appreciate fighting type moves at all.
 
This pokemon is a speciall attacker why tf would it get Shadow Sneak?

ANYWAYS I thought iw ould be cool to mention that Sand now has a consistent Spinblocker to make sure those hazards you set up stay up. And with Sand Veil, You can always have fun with Brightpowder shenanigans a la Gen 4. It also provide a nice switch for Tyranitar and Gigalith, both pokemon who do not appreciate fighting type moves at all.
That's true. Shame it has no chance against Starmie tho. But maybe in the lower tiers then.
 
This pokemon is a speciall attacker why tf would it get Shadow Sneak?
Purely flavor purposes. Shadow Sneak is a move that makes a Pokemon meld into the ground/shadows and then jump out and surprise the foe. Palossand is supposed to meld into the ground, sneak up to prey, and rise up from the sand and eat them.

Official art



Quite a few Pokemon get moves for flavor purposes even if their stats don't match it. Like "Bounce" and Spoink. It has 25 attack vs 70 special attack but it learns bounce because... it's a bouncing pig.

Boing.
 
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No WoW, really? Come on GF. Reliable recovery and at least some ability to work off a common weakness makes it marginally useful as a spinblocker, but without WoW, this is a missed opportunity for interesting play options against physical Waters, More than anything else, no WoW kills this any chance of this being viable at high levels of play. Golurk also looked cool on paper with scary offensive prowess but ended up failing to make a splash.
I mean, I think this thing will be cool on doubles sand teams; obviously NU or RU doubles teams, but I think UU doubles is possible, so there might be your higher level of play. But you're right; Will-o-wisp would've made Palossand a very apt defensive wall, and without it Palossand's effectiveness at, and what it can, reliably defensively wall is narrowed. Although it's true the attack-split was burn's main role, zferolie is also right that the decreased chip damage wouldn't've worked in Palossand's favor either way.

Can I ask what the Toxic nerf might be?

Will-o-wisp doesn't truly make sense on this pokemon so I guess I wasn't really expecting it. It's weird though, how Froslass gets Will-o-wisp this generation but not this...

I think the move tutors in the next games might teach Will-o-wisp though ;)

They basically killed him when when they made Water Compaction not give him a Water immunity.

The lack of Will-o-wisp is just beating a dead horse.

Wait, he doesn't get Shadow Sneak either. A complete joke.
"Killed" is way too strong of a word lol. It's not like Palossand needs a water immunity to function at all; Hippowdown operates well as a defensive Ground type, and Palossand has arguably a better defensive typing and better recovery, although with less bulk. Palossand also has nice coverage options and spinblocking capabilities. And Palossand works well with allies like Gigalith, Mega Steelix, and Tyranitar, that all need somebody to eat Fighting moves/can eat Knock Offs.

I feel like this Pokémon has a lot of potential. It has a great offensive typing, a good Special Attack, decent bulk, and two forms of recovery in Giga Drain and Shore Up. 35 Speed is a problem, but its bulk is enough to tank most hits, so it isn't rendered useless.

Here's an experimental set I came up with:

Palossand @Assault Vest
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
-Shadow Ball
-Earth Power
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb

Shadow Ball and Earth Power for STAB, Giga Drain for recovery, Sludge Bomb to hit Azumarill hard (you shouldn't be staying in against Azumarill at all, but if you're crazy enough to do so, this is an option). Assault Vest patches up its lower Special Defense. It's rekt by Azumarill no matter what you do with it, but with the given EV's you could possibly switch in on the Choice Band set if it's locked into Aqua Jet and get a free +1 in Defense, which could let you take another Aqua Jet and hit back with Sludge Bomb or Giga Drain.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Palossand: 176-210 (56.5 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. +1 0 HP / 252 Def Golurk: 116-140 (37.2 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(NOTE: This is a possibility, not a suggestion. Even with the Defense boost Azumarill is likely to kill you next turn.)
Thoughts on this set?
Assault Vest Palossand sounds like a fun idea, and I hadn't even really considered it. In Singles I might change the 252 Def stats for HP just so Palossand can truly eat special attacks and switch into as many as possible (which is going to be necessary given that this set doesn't have recovery).

I don't Palossand is going to end up in the same tier as Azumarill in singles, but these calcs are important to consider in doubles, where it's likely Palossand and Azumarill will interact more. I might run something other than Assault Vest, and run Protect, to deal with Azumarill and the like.

If I did run Assault Vest in doules though, I'd definitely run Sand Veil over Water Compaction, since Palossand isn't going to be living water hits super well anyway and in a sandstorm Palossand would rather try its luck missing them entirely. The coverage you have looks good; not a lot is hard walling Palossand, as a bulky tank it can chip away from pokemon on the field.

Also, Water Compaction is +2 per water hit though, so your calcs are a little off ;)

The actual ones would be:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Palossand: 176-210 (56.5 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. +2 0 HP / 252 Def Palossand: 90-108 (28.9 - 34.7%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO

you're hitting back:
252+ SpA Palossand Sludge Bomb vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 216-256 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

also, belly drum pre-boost:
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 252 Palossand: 116-140 (37.2 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

post-boost:
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. +2 0 HP / 252 Def Palossand: 236-278 (75.8 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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I did have high hopes for this mon, but it turns out I misconstrued its Special Defense stat.
Shore Up is wonderful, especially with the prevalence of sand in OU, potentially giving it a niche, although it is still arguably outclassed by Hippo, who hits harder, is faster, although that is less significant, and Hippo gets rocks.
Water Compaction is nice, but is ruined by the low Special Defense.
 
I did have high hopes for this mon, but it turns out I misconstrued its Special Defense stat.
Shore Up is wonderful, especially with the prevalence of sand in OU, potentially giving it a niche, although it is still arguably outclassed by Hippo, who hits harder, is faster, although that is less significant, and Hippo gets rocks.
Water Compaction is nice, but is ruined by the low Special Defense.
I mean he has more Special Defense than Hippo. I'm sure that won't ruin him anymore than Hippo.

Though he could use a move tutor for SR access.
 
I mean he has more Special Defense than Hippo. I'm sure that won't ruin him anymore than Hippo.

Though he could use a move tutor for SR access.
You're right, although Hippo does have a higher HP stat, which contributes to said bulk.
I did forget about move tutors too - let's just hope he does get it.
 
Doubles Set w/ ....... Tentacruel? Why not?

Palossand @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 SpA
Bold Nature
-Shadow Ball
-Shore Up/Substitute
-Giga Drain/Stockpile
-Rock Slide

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SDef / 44 Def
Bold Nature
-Scald
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Toxic/Rapid Spin/ Toxic Spikes

Use Tentacruel to trigger Ability + weakness policy during setup turn = +2 Def/SDef
And GO!

Nice UU Pair I think since that's probably where Palossand will end up.
 
Surprisingly disappointed in this one. I honestly expected it to have a far wider movepool considering its Ghost typing. I suppose I shouldn't have kept expectations very high after Gen 5's Ghosts...
 
If you ran calm nature with 252 HP / 4 DEF / 252 SPD with Assault Vest He can tank some water attacks from the special side and the defensive side ok.

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Golurk: 308-366 (80.6 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Scarf Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Golurk: 206-246 (53.9 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Golurk: 218-260 (57 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Assault Vest Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Golurk: 150-176 (39.2 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

but he's still so slow though . . .
 

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