Ubers Salamence

Fireburn

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[OVERVIEW]

* Mega Salamence is a frightening sweeper with Dragon Dance and high Attack coupled with powerful Aerilate-boosted STAB options.
* Intimidate pre-Mega Evolution, base 130 Defense, an immunity to Ground-type attacks, and a resistance to Fire-type attacks allow Mega Salamence to serve as a blanket check to many physical attackers, especially Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh.
* Reliable recovery in Roost aids Mega Salamence in setting up Dragon Dance and switching into attacks.
* Sitting at base 120 Speed, Mega Salamence is quite fast even without a Dragon Dance, outspeeding most of the unboosted metagame and enabling it to revenge kill many powerful Pokemon such as offensive Yveltal, Rayquaza, and Lunala.
* The Aerilate nerf has made it somewhat harder for Mega Salamence to grab KOs after setting up, forcing it to invest more EVs into Attack in order to sweep consistently.
* Stealth Rock and a 4x Ice-type weaknesses heavily cut into Mega Salamence's otherwise solid bulk.

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: Roost
move 4: Facade / Earthquake
item: Salamencite
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Dragon Dance increases Mega Salamence's Attack and Speed stats, enabling it to sweep effectively once its checks are weakened.
* Double-Edge is Mega Salamence's best STAB option due to accuracy and power. It has a fair chance of 2HKOing physically defensive Arceus formes and maximum HP Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock damage, and after a Dragon Dance it easily OHKOes Geomancy Xerneas and offensive Arceus formes.
* Roost can be used to heal off Stealth Rock damage and Double-Edge recoil, helping Mega Salamence set up or sustain its sweep.
* Facade allows Mega Salamence to take advantage of burns it often risks when switching into Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh. After a burn or Toxic, Facade becomes a 140-Base Power STAB attack, outdamaging Double-Edge and allowing it to break through defensive Arceus formes more easily.
* Earthquake is Mega Salamence's best option for hitting Rock- and Steel-types, easily OHKOing Magearna and offensive Solgaleo after a Dragon Dance, as well as allowing Mega Salamence to take down a weakened Arceus-Rock and break through Dialga, Tyranitar, and Zekrom if they lack Shuca Berry.
* Return can be used over Double-Edge as the STAB option if recoil damage is of concern. However, it is quite weak; without Double Edge, Mega Salamence can no longer OHKO Geomancy Xerneas after a Dragon Dance or threaten to 2HKO defensive Arceus formes after Stealth Rock damage.

Set Details
========

* The Speed EVs allow Mega Salamence to outpace anything slower than Timid Palkia, including most variants of Yveltal, Lunala, and Rayquaza as well as Adamant Mega Lucario. After a Dragon Dance, Mega Salamence will also be faster than the most relevant Choice Scarf users in the metagame, including but not limited to Yveltal, Lunala, Xerneas, and Landorus-T.
* 44 HP EVs allows Mega Salamence to survive a Life Orb-boosted Brave Bird from Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage. It also makes Mega Salamence's HP an odd number, granting it an extra switch into Stealth Rock.
* The remaining EVs go toward maximizing Attack, with an Adamant nature because Mega Salamence needs all the power it can get.
* An alternate spread of 252 HP / 132 Atk / 124 Spe with an Adamant nature affords Mega Salamence significantly more bulk, allowing it to survive an Ice Beam from defensive Arceus at full HP as well as a Stone Edge from Rock Polish Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock damage, while retaining the ability to outrun max Speed base 90 Pokemon such as Adamant Ho-Oh. However, the drop in power is noticeable.
* If Timid Palkia isn't a concern, 192 Speed EVs is sufficient to outspeed Timid Lunala and Adamant Mega Lucario, allowing Mega Salamence to invest more into bulk.

Usage Tips
========

* Knowing what Mega Salamence can set up on is key to its success. Ho-Oh locked into Sacred Fire or a physical unboosted Ground-type such as Landorus-T or Swords Dance Arceus-Ground are generally good targets. Primal Groudon is somewhat riskier to set up on, since it tends to carry phazing moves, but nonetheless it can work if it lacks such a move. Mega Salamence can survive most unboosted physical attacks if it's healthy, which can make for a useful setup opportunity, especially if Mega Salamence has not yet Mega Evolved and still has Intimidate. However, Ho-Oh will usually still 2HKO Mega Salamence with Brave Bird, so don't be too reckless about switching Mega Salamence in.
* If using Facade, try to get it activated from a burn if possible, since the extra power will greatly aid Mega Salamence in wallbreaking and sweeping.
* Intimidate can be used defensively to soften physical blows for teammates if it looks like Mega Salamence won't get to sweep.
* Don't be afraid to just toss out Double-Edge if an opportunity arises—it is very strong and can often beat down slower Arceus formes and Lugia unboosted if Stealth Rock is up. Double-Edge can also get valuable damage onto a Pokemon attempting to phaze Mega Salamence such as Primal Groudon, making it easier for a teammate to break past later on.
* If Mega Salamence is unneeded defensively and a sweep is unlikely, you can often simply kamikaze Mega Salamence into one of its checks to weaken it enough for a teammate to break through later in the match.

Team Options
========

* Xerneas is an ideal partner due to Mega Salamence's ability to switch into Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh fairly well as well as its tendency to weaken bulky Steel-types. Xerneas in return can make use of defensive Arceus formes and Zygarde-C as setup fodder.
* Bulky Spikes users such as Klefki and Ferrothorn can switch into Xerneas and support Arceus to throw down Spikes, making a Mega Salamence sweep more likely later in the game.
* If using Mega Salamence on a more offensive team, an offensive entry hazards lead such as Deoxys-S, Cloyster, or Excadrill is recommended. Cloyster and Excadrill also provide Rapid Spin support to help ease Mega Salamence's attempt to set up.
* Primal Groudon can set up Stealth Rock and help weaken support Arceus formes, Lugia, and Zygarde-C for Mega Salamence via Toxic or Swords Dance-boosted attacks.
* Defog Arceus-Water and Giratina-O can clear Stealth Rock for Mega Salamence while backing it up defensively, letting it focus more on finding setup opportunities.
* Swords Dance Arceus-Ground can act as a reliable answer to Arceus-Rock, Dialga, and Zekrom while helping Mega Salamence weaken its checks.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Refresh allows Mega Salamence to heal off any status it takes, being more useful than Facade in the event Mega Salamence gets paralyzed. However, paralysis-inflicting moves aren't too common, making Facade the superior choice most of the time.
* Defog can be used over Dragon Dance if the team is in need of a niche Defog user that can switch into Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh. Defog can also be used on a more defensive set dedicated towards hazard removal if needed.
* Dragon Tail can be used on a defensive set to let Mega Salamence to check Extreme Killer Arceus and Rock Polish Primal Groudon.
* Outrage is a secondary STAB option that allows Mega Salamence to break through Zygarde-C, but using it will prevent Mega Salamence from switching out, making it extremely vulnerable to being revenge killed.
* Thrash is an alternative STAB option that is just as powerful as Double-Edge and does not cause recoil damage, but it does lock Mega Salamence into the attack for a few turns, opening it up to revenge killing.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Arceus-Rock**: Arceus-Rock easily shrugs off Mega Salamence's Flying-type STAB attacks and will never be OHKOed by a +1 Earthquake without a critical hit, OHKOing Mega Salamence in return with STAB Judgment.

**Lugia**: Lugia will always survive any boosted attack from Mega Salamence, OHKOing it back with Ice Beam. Only a +1 boosted Facade has a chance to OHKO Lugia after Stealth Rock damage and Leftovers. If Multiscale is activated, Lugia can usually switch directly into Mega Salamence with impunity.

**Zygarde-C**: Zygarde-C easily tanks any hit from Mega Salamence thanks to its immense physical bulk and phazes it with Dragon Tail. Even if Zygarde has not yet transformed, a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence does not even come close to OHKOing it.

**Support Arceus**: Defensive Arceus-Water, Arceus-Dragon, Arceus-Fairy, and Arceus-Ground can all survive a boosted Double-Edge from Mega Salamence after Stealth Rock damage and OHKO it back with STAB Judgment or Ice Beam. All of these Arceus formes generally have the bulk to stomach Mega Salamence's attacks well.

**Celesteela**: Celesteela's typing and bulk allow it to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Salamence's +1 Double-Edge, stalling it out with a combination of Leech Seed and Toxic.

**Dialga and Zekrom**: If Mega Salamence lacks Earthquake, both Dialga and Zekrom can easily take Mega Salamence's STAB Flying-type attacks and OHKO it with Draco Meteor or Outrage, respectively. Even if Mega Salamence has Earthquake, Dialga and Zekrom can avoid the KO thanks to Shuca Berry.

**Skarmory**: Skarmory can survive most of Mega Salamence's attacks with ease and stall it out with Toxic or phaze it with Whirlwind. However, Skarmory cannot beat the occasional Refresh Mega Salamence by itself unless it is carrying Counter.

**Mega Slowbro**: Mega Slowbro can shrug off Mega Salamence's attacks thanks to its enormous Defense and OHKO it in return with Ice Beam.

**Primal Groudon**: Although Primal Groudon hates switching into Mega Salamence, it can nonetheless survive any hit after a Dragon Dance and phaze Mega Salamence with Roar or Dragon Tail. Primal Groudon can also cripple Mega Salamence with a Lava Plume burn if it lacks Facade.

**Magearna**: If Mega Salamence lacks Earthquake, Magearna can easily take hits from Mega Salamence and OHKO it with Fleur Cannon.

**Bronzong**: Although Bronzong is 2HKOed by +1 Double-Edge, it can nonetheless leave Mega Salamence too weak to sweep with Toxic and Gyro Ball pressure or use either Trick Room or Skill Swap to cut Mega Salamence's sweep short.

**Bulky Attackers**: Bulky and strong attackers such as Giratina-O and defensive Primal Kyogre can't necessarily switch into Mega Salamence, but they can survive one boosted attack and OHKO it back in a pinch.
 
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Fireburn

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I think this is ready for QC. The main change from ORAS was making higher Attack investment the listed spread due to the Aerilate nerf. I also think the nerf makes Double-Edge the clear-cut superior STAB option, though QC can weigh in on this. Moved Refresh to OO since paralysis is less common and burn nerf makes Facade more attractive as an anti-status option.
 
Perhaps this set specifically tailored to sweeping as opposed to wall breaking could be worth mentioning in OO or even as a set on its own.

[SET]
name: Fat Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Return
move 3: Roost
move 4: Refresh
item: Salamencite
ability: Intimidate
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe or 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but the total EV amount for the first set (Dragon Dance) is 516 and you can only put 508 EVs on a 'mon... Don't know if I'm blind and did the math wrong or if that's just a typo. Good thread though
 
I'd note what the Aerilate nerf actually was for extra information to the reader as well as any damage calculations that the nerf has caused Salamence to now miss out on.

This covers everything else pretty well though.

QC 1/3
 

Minority

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An alternate spread of 248 HP / 124 Atk / 136 Spe... the ability to outrun max Speed base 90 Pokemon such as Adamant Ho-Oh
The benchmark for base 90 252+ is 124. 192 EVs allow Mence to beat any non scarf Lunala and 252 Mega Lucario. 212 is a fair standard for the main set.

I would consider adding Mega Slowbro to C&C. Giratina-O and Primal Kyogre are also soft checks, sort of comparable to Primal Groudon.


QC: 2/3
 

Lumari

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TFP Leader
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/1
[OVERVIEW]

* Mega Salamence is a frightening sweeper with Dragon Dance and high Attack coupled with powerful Aerilate-boosted STAB options.
* Intimidate pre-Mega Evolution, base 130 Defense, an immunity to Ground-type attacks, and a resistance to Fire-type attacks allow Mega Salamence to serve as a blanket check to many physical attackers, especially Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh.
* Reliable recovery in Roost aids Mega Salamence in setting up Dragon Dance and switching into attacks.
* Sitting at base 120 Speed, Mega Salamence is quite fast even without a Dragon Dance, outspeeding most of the unboosted metagame and enabling it to revenge kill many powerful Pokemon such as offensive Yveltal, Rayquaza, and Lunala.
* The Aerilate nerf has made it somewhat harder for Mega Salamence to grab KOes KOs after setting up, forcing it to invest more EVs into Attack in order to sweep consistently.
* Stealth Rock and x4 a 4x Ice-type weaknesses heavily cut into Mega Salamence's otherwise solid bulk.

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: Roost
move 4: Facade / Earthquake
item: Salamencite
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 48 HP / 248 Atk / 212 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Dragon Dance increases Mega Salamence's Attack and Speed stats, enabling it to sweep effectively once its checks are weakened.
* Double-Edge is Mega Salamence's best STAB option due to accuracy and power. It has a fair chance of 2HKOing physically defensive Arceus formes and maximum HP Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock damage, and after a Dragon Dance it easily OHKOes Geomancy Xerneas and offensive Arceus formes.
* Roost can be used to heal off Stealth Rock damage and Double-Edge (AH) recoil, helping Mega Salamence set up or sustain its sweep.
* Facade allows Mega Salamence to take advantage of burns it often risks when switching into Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh. After a burn or Toxic, Facade becomes a 140-Base Power (AH) STAB attack, (AC) that greatly improves Mega Salamence's damage output, outdamaging Double-Edge and (or w/e but previous version was strangely / redundantly worded) allowing it to break through defensive Arceus formes more easily.
* Earthquake is Mega Salamence's best option for hitting Rock- and Steel-types, easily OHKOing Magearna and offensive Solgaleo after a Dragon Dance, as well as allowing Mega Salamence to take down a weakened Arceus-Rock and break through Dialga, Tyranitar, and Zekrom if they lack Shuca Berry.
* Return can be used over Double-Edge (AH) as the STAB option if recoil damage is of concern. However, it is quite weak; without Double Edge, Mega Salamence can no longer OHKO Geomancy Xerneas after a Dragon Dance or threaten to 2HKO defensive Arceus formes after Stealth Rock damage.

Set Details
========

* The Speed EVs allow Mega Salamence to outpace anything slower than Timid Palkia, including most variants of Yveltal, Lunala, and Rayquaza as well as Adamant Mega Lucario. After a Dragon Dance, Mega Salamence will also be faster than the most relevant CHoice Choice Scarf users in the metagame, including but not limited to Yveltal, Lunala, Xerneas, and Landorus-T.
* 48 HP EVs allows Mega Salamence to survive a Life Orb-boosted Brave Bird from Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage. It also makes Mega Salamence's HP an odd number, granting it an extra switch into Stealth Rock. (odd HP number is irrelevant, HP number not divisible by 4 is the reason it can switch into SR one more time. idk how to rephrase this since idk if you're comparing it to 52 HP EVs (344 HP, 344 / 4 = 86 = bad) or 44 HP EVs (342 HP, 342 / 4 = 85,5 = 85 = good) and idm if you rephrase it or remove it altogether, as long as the misleading reasoning isn't there)
* The remaining EVs go toward maximizing Attack, with an Adamant nature as because Mega Salamence needs all the power it can get.
* An alternate spread of 248 HP / 136 Atk / 124 Spe (similar deal here, 252 HP and 248 HP take the same amount of SR damage, so unless those 4 Attack EVs do something there's no real reason not to max out HP from what I can see) with an Adamant nature affords Mega Salamence significantly more bulk, allowing it to survive an Ice Beam from defensive Arceus at full HP as well as a Stone Edge from Rock Polish Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock damage, while retaining the ability to outrun max Speed base 90 Pokemon such as Adamant Ho-Oh. However, the drop in power is noticeable.
* If Timid Palkia isn't a concern, 192 Speed EVs is sufficient to outspeed Timid Lunala and Adamant Mega Lucario, allowing Mega Salamence to invest more into bulk.

Usage Tips
========

* Knowing what Mega Salamence can set up on is key to its success. Ho-Oh locked into Sacred Fire or a physical unboosted Ground-type such as Landorus-T or Swords Dance Arceus-Ground are generally good targets. Primal Groudon is somewhat riskier to set up on, (AC) since it tends to carry phazing moves, but nonetheless it can work if it lacks such a move. Mega Salamence can survive most unboosted physical attacks if its it's healthy, which can make for a useful setup opportunity, especially if Mega Salamence has not yet Mega Evolved and still has Intimidate. However, Ho-Oh will usually still 2HKO Mega Salamence with Brave Bird, (AC) so don't be too reckless about switching Mega Salamence in.
* If using Facade, try to get it activated from a burn if possible, since the extra power will greatly aid Mega Salamence in wallbreaking and sweeping.
* Intimidate can be used defensively to soften physical blows for teammates if it looks like Mega Salamence won't get to sweep.
* Don't be afraid to just toss out Double-Edge if an opportunity arises—it is very strong and can often beat down slower Arceus formes and Lugia unboosted if Stealth Rock is up. Double-Edge can also get valuable damage onto a Pokemon attempting to phaze out Mega Salamence such as Primal Groudon, making it easier for a teammate to break past later on.
* If Mega Salamence is unneeded defensively and a sweep is unlikely, you can often simply kamikaze Mega Salamence into one of its checks to weaken it enough for a teammate to break through later in the match.

Team Options
========

* Xerneas is an ideal partner due to Mega Salamence's ability to switch into Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh fairly well as well as its tendency to weaken bulky Steel-types. Xerneas in return can make use of defensive Arceus formes and Zygarde-C as setup fodder.
* Bulky Spikes users such as Klefki and Ferrothorn can switch into Xerneas and support Arceus to throw down Spikes, making a Mega Salamence sweep more likely later in the game.
* If using Mega Salamence on a more offensive team, an offensive entry hazards lead such as Deoxys-S, Cloyster, or Excadrill is recommended. Cloyster and Excadrill also provide Rapid Spin support to help ease Mega Salamence's attempt to set up.
* Primal Groudon can set up Stealth Rock and help weaken support Arceus formes, Lugia, and Zygarde-C for Mega Salamence via Toxic or Swords Dance-boosted (AH) attacks.
* Defog Arceus-Water and Giratina-O can clear Stealth Rock for Mega Salamence while backing it up defensively, letting it focus more on finding setup opportunities.
* Swords Dance Arceus-Ground can act as a reliable answer to Arceus-Rock, Dialga, and Zekrom while helping Mega Salamence weaken its checks.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Refresh allows Mega Salamence to heal off any status it takes, being more useful than Facade in the event Mega Salamence gets paralyzed. However, paralysis-inflicting moves aren't as that common as they used to be due to the paralysis nerf, (too time-specific, don't feel super strongly though but only because the skeleton will be written up at some point anyway) making Facade the superior choice most of the time.
* Defog can be used over Dragon Dance if the team is in need of a niche Defog user that can switch into Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh. Defog can also be used on a more defensive set dedicated towards hazard removal if needed.
* Dragon Tail can be used on a defensive set to let Mega Salamence to check Extremekiller Extreme Killer Arceus and Rock Polish Primal Groudon.
* Outrage is a secondary STAB option that allows Mega Salamence to break through Zygarde-C, but using it will prevent Mega Salamence from switching out, making it extremely vulnerable to being revenge killed.
* Thrash is an alternative STAB option that is just as powerful as Double-Edge and does not cause recoil damage, but it does lock Mega Salamence into the attack for a few turns, opening it up to revenge killing.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Arceus-Rock**: Arceus-Rock easily shrugs off Mega Salamence's Flying-type STAB attacks and will never be OHKOed by a +1 Earthquake without a critical hit, OHKOing Mega Salamence in return with STAB Judgment.

**Lugia**: Lugia will always survive any boosted attack from Mega Salamence, OHKOing it back with Ice Beam. Only a +1 boosted Facade has a chance to OHKO Lugia after Stealth Rock damage and Leftovers. If Multiscale is activated, Lugia can usually switch directly into Mega Salamence with impunity.

**Zygarde-C**: Zygarde-C easily tanks any hit from Mega Salamence thanks to its immense physical bulk and phazes it out with Dragon Tail. Even if Zygarde-C has not yet transformed, a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence does not even come close to OHKOing Zygarde it.

**Support Arceus**: Defensive Arceus-Water, Arceus-Dragon, Arceus-Fairy, and Arceus-Ground can all survive a boosted Double-Edge from Mega Salamence after Stealth Rock damage and OHKO it back with STAB Judgment or Ice Beam. All of these Arceus formes generally have the bulk to stomach Mega Salamence's attacks well.

**Celesteela**: Celesteela's typing and bulk allows allow it to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Salamence's +1 Double-Edge, stalling it out with a combination of Leech Seed and Toxic.

**Dialga and Zekrom**: If Mega Salamence lacks Earthquake, both Dialga and Zekrom can easily take Mega Salamence's STAB Flying-type attacks and OHKO it with Draco Meteor or Outrage, respectively. Even if Mega Salamence has Earthquake, Dialga and Zekrom can avoid the KO thanks to Shuca Berry.

**Skarmory**: Skarmory can survive most of Mega Salamence's attacks with ease and stall it out with Toxic or phaze it with Whirlwind. However, Skarmory cannot beat the occasional Refresh Mega Salamence by itself unless it is carrying Counter.

**Mega Slowbro**: Mega Slowbro can shrug off Mega Salamence's attacks thanks to its enormous Defense and OHKO it in return with Ice Beam.

**Primal Groudon**: Although Primal Groudon hates switching into Mega Salamence, it can nonetheless survive any hit after a Dragon Dance and phaze out Mega Salamence with Roar or Dragon Tail. Primal Groudon can also cripple Mega Salamence with a Lava Plume burn if it lacks Facade.

**Magearna**: If Mega Salamence lacks Earthquake, Magearna can easily take hits from Mega Salamence and OHKO it with Fleur Cannon.

**Bronzong**: Although Bronzong is 2HKOed by +1 Double-Edge, it can nonetheless leave Mega Salamence too weak to sweep with Toxic and Gyro Ball pressure or use either Trick Room or Skill Swap to cut Mega Salamence's sweep short.

**Bulky Attackers**: Bulky and strong attackers such as Giratina-O and defensive Primal Kyogre can't necessarily switch into Mega Salamence, but they can survive one boosted attack and OHKO it back in a pinch.
 
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