Rain Dance 1vs1 Hard Hitter

[Starke]

MONO-WATER SWIFT RAIN

Well, I'm 26 years old (almost 27) and yeah, I've been playing Pokémon for a huge amount of years, stopped at Fire Red because well, I'm getting old. However a couple days ago, a friend got me back into Pokémon because of Pokémon Online, we had some battles, (we play with 4th Gen Pokémon and the only bans are UBER's) and after a lot of tweeking I created a team that, at this point, is devastating all of my friends teams, simply by honestly, being one step ahead and having an answer for everything, mainly the reason why I don't have any high SpD Pokémon since my team is highly offensive, however, I would like to know how it would deal in competitive environment and/or what threats should I be aware of that I may have not met yet:

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Taunt
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
- Explosion

In-Depth Analysis: Amazing lead, with its speed it can easily outrun most of the threats, Taunt and Rain Dance + Damp Rock are pretty self-explanatory, U-Turn makes it that I can quickly swap into another Pokémon without losing a turn and Explosion is for the Pokémons that give me the hardest times which at this point have been identified as Tyranitar, Gastrodon and Bllissey (Even tho Explosion might not be the best solution for the latest might be the opener needed to sweep it).

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Electric]

In-Depth Analysis: It started by being a Omastar, but after some research, I found out Kingdra would hit harder, faster, and be able to deal with many more threats, this is my main hitter, and by far the greatest killer, the team revolves around him!

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Thunder
- Surf
- Ice Beam

In-Depth Analysis: Needed a support Rapid Spinner, after finding out that Waterfall was Physical (derp, thanks Crona) I switched Starmie to a full Physical Attacker.. Before that it was a support Rapid Spinner with Ligth Screen so I could switch in some counters without as big of a threat or fear of being 1HKO'd.

Gyarados (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Bounce

In-Depth Analysis: Like Ludicolo, it was added to my team to deal with variable types of Pokémon that Kingdra can not, my main Physical attacker / Dragon Dancer.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance

In-Depth Analysis: My tank and my answer for Tyranitar, Dragonite, etc. honestly the only Pokémon that give me a run for my money, but not with Swampert in charge, suits the team perfectly, and being able to set Stealth Rock made it simply, a perfect choice, one might notice that he doesn't have any water based moves, I needed a Rain Dancer reseter, this was also my main choice..

Ludicolo (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Psychic]

In-Depth Analysis: Like Gyarados, it was added to my team to deal with variable types of Pokémon that Kingdra can not, it's my secondary physical attacker with added speed and covers the weaknesses that Gyarados can not IE Energy Ball on Gastrodon is invaluable, basically my answer to my greatest counter ATM.

Lastly, The Importer:

Hide

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Taunt
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
- Explosion

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Thunder
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Gyarados (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Bounce

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance

Ludicolo (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Psychic]

 

[Crona]

Your team's very water-based. Almost a mono-water team XD

Well, I'll go through each member first.

Azelf: Seems alright, typical weather setting Azelf.

Kingdra: Brine is not worth use. At the time it's doubled in power, you might as well just use Surf. HP Electric could be of more use.

Starmie: Seems meh at first glance. I'd suggest an offensively oriented Starmie with full Sp. Atk investment instead of HP, and using Surf/Thunder/Ice Beam/Rapid Spin @ Life Orb.

Gyarados: Take off Thunder, now. It's a Dragon Dancer. It needs to be using physical moves. Waterfall in place of Thunder. That's your best STAB, because Bounce is powerful and useful when it paralyzes, but Waterfall is even better because it's consistent. Earthquake can be considered in place of Bounce, depending on preference.

Swampert: Seems fine, adds SR, and is another supporter.

Ludicolo: Seems fine as well, very standard.

 

[Starke]

Yeah, making it almost mono-water with a couple of dual types with resistances to their weaknesses (Ludicolo IE) makes it really hard to counter effectively without some preparation I believe.

 

[Crona]

Didn't notice this earlier:
Kingdra's only using 252 Sp Atk EVs.

You may want to use the other 258...

 

[Starke]

Didn't notice this earlier:
Kingdra's only using 252 Sp Atk EVs.

You may want to use the other 258...

Omg, I can't believe I've been fighting without specing the other 258 EV's! What an idiot, I can't begin to explain how much this was hurting me, and I was wonder why some times Pokémon that would outrun my Kingdra when they shouldn't were doing it. Made the changes, updated main post. Also, thinking on bringing this to swap for Starmie as an anti-tank (Knock Off is so useful!):

Tentacruel (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes (Maybe Sludge Bomb?)
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Surf

What do you think?

 

[Crona]

Given the offensive nature of the team, I'd put Ice Beam over Sludge Bomb if you're thinking of Tentacruel.

I've noticed Ice Beam now on Kingdra, I didn't pay mind due to the fact Kingdra's coverage is good enough to make up for its lackluster movepool. I'd suggest Dragon Pulse in cases where you may not want to use Draco Meteor but you need Dragon STAB.

 

[Starke]

That would leave me with something like this:

Hide

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Taunt
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
- Explosion

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Tentacruel (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Ice Beam

Gyarados (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Bounce

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Hydro Cannon
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance

Ludicolo (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Psychic]

 

[Crona]

I meant, for attacks, use Surf AND Ice Beam.

It's an offensively oriented team, so Toxic Spikes doesn't really help too much. Those are better for stalling.

 

[Black Rain]

I suggest using a Tornadus over Gyarados. Tornadus is able to abuse the rain perfectly, with a very powerful Hurricane. I personally don't see Gyarados getting very much out of the rain outside of a Waterfall boost, which isn't that crucial anyways as Gyarados has a good attack.

Hide

Tornadus (M) @ Life Orb / Damp Rock
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Rain Dance
- U-turn / Taunt

Edit: Derp, didn't notice this was 4th gen, sorry :/

 

[Crona]

This is 4th Gen, silly :p

 

[bubbly]

Okay, enough of the noob rates people. First things first. This is a hyperoffensive rain team. However, there are a few defensive pokemon which can wall you without too much trouble, which is very worrying. The main threat is defensive Celebi, especially if it carries Thunder Wave as most do. Half your team flat out loses to it, while the rest only has a 50/50 shot. Having U-turn and Bounce on Azelf and Gyarados respectively will help but its no more than an unreliable patch up solution. Other bulky Grass types like Shaymin or Tangrowth will also be difficult to get past.

Second, and just as troubling, is Blissey. It completely walls Kingdra, Starmie, Swampert and Ludicolo, and can catch Gyarados or Azelf with paralysis on the switch. You simply won't get past a well built stall team with Blissey.

Okay, fixes. The first recommendation I'm going to make is to use a Rain support Scizor in place of your Swampert. All Swampert is really doing is beating Tyranitar, Dragonite, and setting up rain. Scizor can also do all of these (although Dragonite can't set up anywhere and is easily revenge killed so it's a non-issue anyway unless it's Mixed or CB with Extremespeed). However, Scizor will also beat Blissey, and Grass types in Rain.

Scizor @ Leftovers, Adamant nature
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
-Rain Dance
-U-turn
-Bullet Punch
-Roost / Pursuit (helpful for catching fleeing Bliss / Celebi).

Okay, that honestly fixes most of the issues. However, some sets can still be changed around to be more efficient. I'd recommend using the Mixed Rain Dance set on Kingdra to prevent Blissey still coming and stalling out the rain. Also, HP Psychic on Ludicolo is pointless; replace it with Rain Dance. Last thing; give Azelf Stealth Rock in place of Explosion.

Okay, that's it. Those changes really do patch up nearly all your problems so I hope you'll give them a go. Nice team, good luck :)

 

[Starke]

Okay, enough of the noob rates people. First things first. This is a hyperoffensive rain team. However, there are a few defensive pokemon which can wall you without too much trouble, which is very worrying. The main threat is defensive Celebi, especially if it carries Thunder Wave as most do. Half your team flat out loses to it, while the rest only has a 50/50 shot. Having U-turn and Bounce on Azelf and Gyarados respectively will help but its no more than an unreliable patch up solution. Other bulky Grass types like Shaymin or Tangrowth will also be difficult to get past.

Second, and just as troubling, is Blissey. It completely walls Kingdra, Starmie, Swampert and Ludicolo, and can catch Gyarados or Azelf with paralysis on the switch. You simply won't get past a well built stall team with Blissey.

Okay, fixes. The first recommendation I'm going to make is to use a Rain support Scizor in place of your Swampert. All Swampert is really doing is beating Tyranitar, Dragonite, and setting up rain. Scizor can also do all of these (although Dragonite can't set up anywhere and is easily revenge killed so it's a non-issue anyway unless it's Mixed or CB with Extremespeed). However, Scizor will also beat Blissey, and Grass types in Rain.


Okay, that honestly fixes most of the issues. However, some sets can still be changed around to be more efficient. I'd recommend using the Mixed Rain Dance set on Kingdra to prevent Blissey still coming and stalling out the rain. Also, HP Psychic on Ludicolo is pointless; replace it with Rain Dance. Last thing; give Azelf Stealth Rock in place of Explosion.

Okay, that's it. Those changes really do patch up nearly all your problems so I hope you'll give them a go. Nice team, good luck :)

I took your advice and put Mixed Rain Dancer Kingdra, but without Rain Dance and plus Dragon Pulse, also, I'd take it that Scizor's trait would be Swarm? Get back to me if possible.

 

[Crona]

Scizor only uses Technician.
Period.

 

[michael]

With that Scizor set, I'd definitely use Damp Rock over Leftovers. The extra 3 turns of rain are far more valuable than 6.25% of your HP back every turn, especially when you have Roost.

If you have serious trouble with special walls, you could also consider using a Swords Dance Ludicolo. In the rain, it deals easily with Blissey and Snorlax, and can even punch through most physical tanks and walls short of Skarmory.

Ludicolo

Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 60 HP/252 Atk/196 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Ice Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall

 

[ENZ0]

starke,

rain, fun stuff. problem: tyranitar. i am not going to focus too much on what teams can do to you, but what you can do to other teams. rain teams, if played right, can wreck any type of team, so i'll just try to make it easier for you.

i suggest using a dugtrio to trap tyranitar with the help of some baton pass/u-turn. first off you don't need rapid spin, if they set hazards up on you, you proceed to set rain up on them. i suggest using dugtrio over starmie, i would use dugtrio @ life orb | jolly nature | 4 hp / 252 atk / 252 spe | earthquake / stone edge / sucker punch / rain dance. this duggy will destroy tyranitar's with the help of some residual damage and scouting, while also giving you a rain setup. i suggest using uxie over azelf to have a sturdy rain setup that will also attract tyranitar. it should look like uxie @ damp rock | timid nature | 252 hp / 32 def / 224 spe | stealth rock / psychic / u-turn / rain dance. this set will hit roserade and only allow one set of toxic spikes, while being able to set up rain multiple times. if roserade worries you too much, just use your azelf lead with stealth rock over explosion or u-turn, and a 252 hp / 4 def / 252 spe EV spread. now you need more rain dance, i suggest using jolteon over gyarados. a set like jolteon @ damp rock | timid nature | 4 hp / 252 spa / 252 spe | baton pass / thunder / hidden power ice / rain dance, will give you one of the fastest rain dances available while being a nice hitter that can abuse rain.

at the moment, you have uxie / dugtrio / jolteon. i suggest using a mixed kingdra, like kingdra @ life orb | mild nature | 208 atk / 136 spa / 164 spe | rain dance / waterfall / draco meteor / hydro pump. this set will hurt stall teams nicely and provide one of the best rain abusers. i want to suggest using a swords dance set on ludicolo exactly like the one mentioned by mikel to further break down teams. lastly, use a swords dance kabutops over swampert. something like kabutops @ life orb | adamant nature | 4 hp / 252 atk / 252 spe | swords dance / waterfall / stone edge / aqua jet. this set absolutely wrecks under rain and provides some nifty priority for frail pokemon. the team ends up looking like uxie / dugtrio / jolteon / kabutops / ludicolo / kingdra.

hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[Starke]

This is how it looks now:

Hide

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Taunt
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Waterfall

Tentacruel (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Ice Beam

Gyarados (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Scizor (F) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Rain Dance

Ludicolo (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Whirlpool

What changes do you think I should make on it?

Also, Swampert didn't have any problems getting rid of Tyranitar. Right now, Earthquake Gyarados is doing it for me, but yeah, I feel that if I make all those changes, I'll lose all unpredictability and become a typical rain team and I really don't want to go there.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Change Scizor's ability to Technician. That is the only ability you should be running on Scizor, ever.

 

[bubbly]

If you're going to use Tentacruel then use Toxic Spikes > Rapid Spin. They can be really helpful on rain offense because most of the usual problems (Vaporeon, Blissey, Celebi) are all hurt badly. Also, use Rain Dance on Ludicolo instead of Whirlpool. Otherwise looks good :)

 

[Starke]

I think that's it, final product:

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Taunt
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Waterfall

Tentacruel (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Toxic Spikes
- Knock Off
- Ice Beam

Gyarados (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Scizor (F) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Rain Dance

Ludicolo (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Rain Dance