I actually didn't notice that line in the trailer, but the first thing I noticed was "the player characters have new outfits", indicating that they're the same player characters from SM and thus it isn't a BW2-esque sequel. Did that line come off any differently in the original Japanese?
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SPOILERS! Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon News & Discussion
- Thread starter DHR-107
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I mean, several of the scenes from the trailers are repeat of SM storyline (ultrabeasts appearing with Lusamine who is still healthy, Lylie meeting the player, nebby on bridge, nebby himself evolving), as I said, even thinking it's a "sequel" is pure negationism based on wishthinking.
Unless Lylie magically got another Cosmog and magically decided to run away from Lusamine AGAIN after she was healed because.... no.
Unless Lylie magically got another Cosmog and magically decided to run away from Lusamine AGAIN after she was healed because.... no.
... Guys. WE WERE SHOWN THE CUTSCENE OF THE USUM DRESSED PLAYER SAVING NEBBY ON THE BRIDGE! What more proof do you need? That said, just because it'll follow similar story beats doesn't mean it'll be the same story. We know we're going to go through the Aether story arc but were only shown some selected scenes (saving Nebby on the bridge, Nebby evolving into Cosmoem, and we know we end up on the Alter of Sunne/Moone to evolve Nebby into Solgaleo/Lunala). While we're still going to go the same direction of the original story, how things will play out may be different. I wanted a sequel too, but seeing this poster makes me think maybe we'll be getting more of an original story than previous third versions had led us to believe.
As for the mysterious people on the poster, this does seem to indicate there has been a major change/addition. Obvious first assumption is them having an affiliation with the Aether Foundation. Their clothes remind me of the Aether Scientists:
This could be hinting that in USUM the Aether Foundation is going to go down a much harder high technology and science route. I like the idea Sulfurian suggested, they're now actively exploring Ultra Space and these are suits to protect them from the Ultra Energy and other potentially dangerous exposure. For the figures individually:
Also, I agree with Siggu it's odd Type: Null isn't on the poster despite Gladion being there. Sure, they maybe wanted to stick with the Starters and plot relevant Pokemon, though Silvally has its connections to the plot and we know they aren't afraid to show spoilers since Lillie is dressed in her "Z-Form" clothes.
Going from there, she's holding a Poke Ball so maybe she'll battle? Would be neat if they made her the missing Ice-type trainer, would also be a call out to the anime especially if they have her ace be an Alolan Vulpix/Ninetales (given a plus if it's nicknamed Snowy). I could see her having an Alolan Vulpix as a pet/companion to mix things up, and then after switching to her "Z-Form" her Vulpix also wanting to jump into the fray and start battling (before than maybe show her Vulpix is a bit pampered or it wants to battle but Lillie prevents it from doing so). Finally before she leaves you'll have an end game battle with her like in XY and ORAS.
Finally, Hau is serious, now you know s*** has gone down.
As for the mysterious people on the poster, this does seem to indicate there has been a major change/addition. Obvious first assumption is them having an affiliation with the Aether Foundation. Their clothes remind me of the Aether Scientists:
This could be hinting that in USUM the Aether Foundation is going to go down a much harder high technology and science route. I like the idea Sulfurian suggested, they're now actively exploring Ultra Space and these are suits to protect them from the Ultra Energy and other potentially dangerous exposure. For the figures individually:
- Starting with the most obvious, the farthest one on the left is making the Faba "thinking" gesture so Project_Mars showed. Is it Faba? Who knows, I'm more likely to lean yes, I think this is the Aether Foundation so their main members would receive radical clothing changes. However we do know Faba has written "words of advice" to employees so there's also a possibility this is another higher rank member who Faba trained and he adopted his thinking gesture, thus to make us think it was Faba in this poster.
- As for the woman, I know that bust anywhere, Wicke! Actually, who knows. Like your first thought would be Lusamine but I just don't know. Like I could throw out dozens of theories but all are "what if" as we don't know what turns the story has taken.
- Probably the most interesting one, the child. The outfit makes the kid look like a girl and your mind jumps to Lillie but that raises a whole batch of questions, though that said it's only the headpiece that give it a girl appearance.
- Finally, Mr. Mysterious on the right. Seems pretty important as he's alone and is the biggest one there, indicating he's the boss. And unlike the others, his face is smudged out as if they're hiding his identity (that said if the others are previous character their appearance changed so much we can't tell its suppose to be them). If I'm making a wild guess, maybe this is Mohn? I mean we have that mystery hanging there and this would be the game to do something with it.
Also, I agree with Siggu it's odd Type: Null isn't on the poster despite Gladion being there. Sure, they maybe wanted to stick with the Starters and plot relevant Pokemon, though Silvally has its connections to the plot and we know they aren't afraid to show spoilers since Lillie is dressed in her "Z-Form" clothes.
Going from there, she's holding a Poke Ball so maybe she'll battle? Would be neat if they made her the missing Ice-type trainer, would also be a call out to the anime especially if they have her ace be an Alolan Vulpix/Ninetales (given a plus if it's nicknamed Snowy). I could see her having an Alolan Vulpix as a pet/companion to mix things up, and then after switching to her "Z-Form" her Vulpix also wanting to jump into the fray and start battling (before than maybe show her Vulpix is a bit pampered or it wants to battle but Lillie prevents it from doing so). Finally before she leaves you'll have an end game battle with her like in XY and ORAS.
Finally, Hau is serious, now you know s*** has gone down.
On the Type Null issue: in S/M arc, we're told that 3 are made, that Gladion steals one (and uses it during the plot), we get one ourself, and the 3rd one is nowhere to be seen (potentially could be the shiny event one, but still not relevant to story plot either ways).
I was wondering, implying that in USUM also 3 are made, what if Lylie will also be sporting a Sylvally herself?
I was wondering, implying that in USUM also 3 are made, what if Lylie will also be sporting a Sylvally herself?
Hey, I just had this two weird ideas:
What if those mysterious figures aren't of the Pokemon World but instead a humanoid species that live in Ultra Space! Either being a native species that just so happen to be humanoid or people (or their descendents) who got themselves trapped in Ultra Space. This could even maybe have something to do with Mohn, Anabel, and other Fallers. As for why they're here:
- They're trying to protect Ultra Space?
- If a native species maybe are just as curious of the Pokemon World as we are of Ultra Space?
- If a lost colony maybe trying to get back to the Pokemon World but are having problems crossing through.
Since we're dealing with different dimensions/timelines, maybe this is a group from another version of the Pokemon World? Like another Pokemon World's Aether Foundation made great progress in their Ultra Space project, Mohn didn't get sucked into Ultra Space, and are now using the power to explore different timelines. Ooh, and maybe while doing so they're causing unintended damage, like accidentally sucking people into Ultra Space. Maybe they're here in an attempt to fix the damage they caused in one timeline to see if its possible.
Even though the idea of interactions with other dimensions looks neat, it probably is pushing it too far for USUM: it'd make the plot excessively complicate for a game that in general has always had moderately simpler plots (bad guy X is mad enough to want to destroy/conquer the world or thinks doing something will save it while in reality it'll just flood/burn/freeze/whatever it to death)
I do expect USUM to be on same line, either with said evil guys thinking to use Necrozma to get power, potentially with Necrozma getting out of control once he's *released* or something, and I also do expect that those evil guys will reveal themselves via plot twist in similar fashion to how in S/M Lusamine reveals being the mad person after you were convinced she was good for half of the plot.
I do expect USUM to be on same line, either with said evil guys thinking to use Necrozma to get power, potentially with Necrozma getting out of control once he's *released* or something, and I also do expect that those evil guys will reveal themselves via plot twist in similar fashion to how in S/M Lusamine reveals being the mad person after you were convinced she was good for half of the plot.
There's nothing that complicated about adding alternate timelines. Lots of things have alternate timelines and time travel. Mario games have had it! And so has ORAS, for that matter. And also maybe SM itself depending on how you interpret Anabel in the post-game.
Here check it out: "We're from another timeline, chasing ultra beasts/research to save/rule the world". It's still simple, now it just has added wrinkles in the same way SM added wrinkles for any of its plot points (team skull is just a group of burnout thugs working for aether who actually isn't evil as a whole, just the leader, who is the mother of lillie gone too far etc etc).
That said.
I feel like people are taking the throw away line of "alternate take" to be more literal and are probably setting themselves up for disappointment when USUM does not involve interaction with the SM dimension or w/e and not just a fancier way of saying its like platinum.
Heh, don't get me wrong, I hightly doubt the USUM dimension will have any interaction with S/M one.
The furthest we got with "interactions" of known dimension was in ORAS, with both the post-game meme of the other team captain wondering if "in another dimension maybe it's me almost getting everyone killed" hinting at the existance of the other title, and the Delta Episode on its own, which hints at the fact that there could be another Hoenn where mega evolutions were never discovered (which'd likely be the RSE Hoenn) and which would be destroyed by the meteorite impact if we just threw it in another dimension as Steven planned.
I can see something on those lines, just hints at S/M existance, but I doubt any actual interaction would happen. In the end, the "go through the portal at Sunne/Moone to get other Cosmog" is also a dimension travel in theory, I guess, but that's as far as it gets.
....then, considering that Ultraspace could have been a very awesome place to explore, it's sad how in S/M it was just reduced to "walk through a tunnel, fight Lusamine, escape", and hopefully we really get to interact more with the place in USUM.
The furthest we got with "interactions" of known dimension was in ORAS, with both the post-game meme of the other team captain wondering if "in another dimension maybe it's me almost getting everyone killed" hinting at the existance of the other title, and the Delta Episode on its own, which hints at the fact that there could be another Hoenn where mega evolutions were never discovered (which'd likely be the RSE Hoenn) and which would be destroyed by the meteorite impact if we just threw it in another dimension as Steven planned.
I can see something on those lines, just hints at S/M existance, but I doubt any actual interaction would happen. In the end, the "go through the portal at Sunne/Moone to get other Cosmog" is also a dimension travel in theory, I guess, but that's as far as it gets.
....then, considering that Ultraspace could have been a very awesome place to explore, it's sad how in S/M it was just reduced to "walk through a tunnel, fight Lusamine, escape", and hopefully we really get to interact more with the place in USUM.
The concept of Parallel Universe was already established in ORAS I believe so I think this will likely a retelling of SM with some differences like Necrozma being involved during the main story.
So, after watching the preview of the next Anime episode, something just crossed my mind.
In the Anime, apparently Lusamine and Lylie haven't yet had any issue, Nebby is happily resting in Aether foundation, and there's even a fight between Lunala and Solgaleo.
I'm wondering... what if those events actually are somewhere part of USUM storyline. In general, the Anime has several main points of the games' plot, but yet those are nowhere near as what Sun/Moon plot is, and would fit with USUM Lylie potentially being an actual pokemon trainer instead of super scared by Pokemon.
In the Anime, apparently Lusamine and Lylie haven't yet had any issue, Nebby is happily resting in Aether foundation, and there's even a fight between Lunala and Solgaleo.
I'm wondering... what if those events actually are somewhere part of USUM storyline. In general, the Anime has several main points of the games' plot, but yet those are nowhere near as what Sun/Moon plot is, and would fit with USUM Lylie potentially being an actual pokemon trainer instead of super scared by Pokemon.
Eh... not reeeeeeaally. It's just that GF has always been notorious for not knowing how to code for shit, hence why they never went big with anything but pokemon. Just take a look at how far behind Pokemon is in terms of QoL and how unpractical a lot of stuff is.
Anyways... here's a shower thought I've had while reading this thread.
Light of Alola said:
If we assume they're both talking about Solgaleo/Lunala it sounds really contradictory, doesn't it? But, I think the 2nd text is talking about Necrozma and how it bestowed the Tapunium-Z upon the Tapu instead of the cover legends. And if we assume Necrozma is capable of creating Z-Crystals, it would also be likely that the new Z-Ring is connected to Necrozma (explaining its black color) & why more Z-Crystals can be used with it. Could GF really have foreshadowed all of this or am I stretching it?The Legendary Pokémon and the Tapu said:
"foreshadow" is a big word.
Remember that generally, a game developement starts 2-3 years before its release, thus USUM was already deep in development when S/M was finished and ready to ship.
If you are right in this theory, it was simply part of the plan from the beginnin.
You sure about that? There's another trailer showing Lillie dodging Lusamine's hug, which puts Lillie's reaction to Lusamine's hug in perspective. Is Lillie just embarrassed that Lusamine is doting on her like that, or is there's something deeper going on on Lillie's part? While we don't exactly know how Lusamine treated Lillie and Gladion in the games, what we can infer that she was overbearing on them. Since the anime takes place in an alternate earlier point in the story, we may just be seeing where the relation has strained for Lillie but not Lusamine. And of course you wonder if Lillie's phobia of touching Pokemon has to do with something Lusamine did.
Also we don't know if the Cosmog that Ash found (which isn't in the Aether Paradise, looks to be in Verdant Cavern) is Nebby. Nebby is the Cosmog that Lillie rescued from Aether Foundation, for all we know it only exists in the games. This Cosmog more seems friendly with Ash since he found it, Lillie also has Snowy so she doesn't really need a Nebby. Even if this Cosmog gets used in certain plot points similar to what Nebby went through, it's more just being used in place of Nebby (like how Ash always takes the place of the main character of that generation).
The fight between Solgaleo and Lunala is in a grainy filter so is probably just a "legend" being told to Ash & co.. Also note a recent poster only shows Solgaleo but not Lunala, plus another trailer shows the anime's alter is the Alter of the Moone. As it has done since Gen V, the anime seems to have made its own story using the elements of Sun & Moon. Looks like Solgaleo might have a big role, and probably the Cosmog that Ash has will become a Lunala. Also in the poster Ash has the new Z-Ring so there might be USUM stuff early on in "Alola Season 2" though I don't think anything it does would be reflective of what goes on in the game. Once again, we know that at the very beginning that Lillie's role is the same, and thoguh she may become a trainer I don't think it'll have any influence from the anime except maybe what Pokemon she'll have (we do need an Ice-type specialist...).
More Pokedex Info:
A Rotom Dex toy has revealed that Dusk Mane Necrozma is Alola #400 rather then #300 it was in Sun & Moon. So there seems to be just 200 new Pokemon + whatever Ultra Beasts they introduce.
100 pokemon, likely including the 2 new UBs. It's the alola dex, so they can easily place Burst & Assembly after Guzzlord but before Necrozma.
And feasibly less than that. SM had 84 island scan pokemon that could easily get actual dex entries now. Maybe just change out the gen 2/5 starters and let trainers have them.
One last chance GF, one last chance. Give me my Fire/Grass tiki mon. Btw, what are the chances that they are not gonna include obvious mons like Tropious and Belossom or even Solrock and Lunatone?
One can only wonder what kind of Alolan Forms and Pokédex spots will appear in Ultra SM, but the 100 new Alola Dex spots will most likely include the two revealed UBs. It's nice to see that we'll likely see 402-403 Pokémon in the dex, assuming we get a third Mythical for the 21st main-series movie next year.
Well, that "Beast that shone like the sun" thing sounds like the thing you see half of on each of US/UM's cover:
Looks like a stretch, you say? Well, on the Double Pack cover, they're not even subtle about it:
If that thing in the middle isn't an intentional representation of a monster of some sort featured in the game, I'll change my- ... uhh, loudly complain about bad design on this forum!
Also, I had a shower thought the other day. Maybe it was too obvious to be brought up in this thread, at least I haven't seen it discussed yet:
With the new UBs, Game Freak has put a definite stop to full cross-game compatibility within the same generation. New dex numbers, not a chance they'll be compatible with SM. I think this also explains the mystery of the Event legendaries. Why have only two of them and release them both within the life span of the first games of the generation? Magearna was distributed early in SM's life cycle, then Marshadow now... but there's a whole new pair of games to keep us entertained in the long wait for gen VIII. What else could they gradually release and hype up to keep players invested? What will the next movies be about? It's not like the alternate Magearna pattern would be enough...
My answer: more event legendaries, Mythical Pokémon. Ones that weren't front loaded on the SM cartridges, because they were never planned to be distributed during SM's shelf life. They will be USUM exclusive, incompatible with SM, front loaded on the USUM cartridges (for the sake of easier logistics), and have their own dex numbers. SM had only front loaded the event legendaries, forms, and Z-moves that were planned to be released during their own shelf lives, so as not to spoil everything in the first week of the new generation.
The new UBs set the precedent for new dex numbers. I'm pretty sure they won't be the only ones taking advantage of it. The only question is, how many new dex numbers will there be, and how ordinary will their Pokémon be? Legendaries/UBs only, or will there be new Com Mons in the middle of a generation?
If you think USUM took 3 years... I bet it took less than 10 months :^)
That's not "thinking"; that's how game designing works.
You don't magically code things in and produce graphic and "balance" in less than a year, even for a 3rd installment of a title. And if you think so, I'm afraid you never worked in the software/gaming developement :P
"10 months" would mean that after releasing S/M, they had nothing prepared for the following title AT ALL, which is both unrealistic and *terrible* merchandship-wise.
And in fact, they even confirmed in one of the interviews that games for Switch are already in developement, despite all of them being nearly 2 years away.
You don't magically code things in and produce graphic and "balance" in less than a year, even for a 3rd installment of a title. And if you think so, I'm afraid you never worked in the software/gaming developement :P
"10 months" would mean that after releasing S/M, they had nothing prepared for the following title AT ALL, which is both unrealistic and *terrible* merchandship-wise.
And in fact, they even confirmed in one of the interviews that games for Switch are already in developement, despite all of them being nearly 2 years away.
I wouldn't say US/UM were in development for 2-3 years considering which kind of game it is. I'd say that, at earliest, it began development when the assets for Sun and Moon were finished, and Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon use a lot of these assets (perhaps with some modifications).
It probably started development some months before Sun and Moon were released.
It probably started development some months before Sun and Moon were released.
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