OU Theorymon (Check Post #173)

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How does Frost Breath works under the effect of Technician?
I mean, does it receives the boost and then results in a crit, reaching a 135 BP, or it doesn't receive the boost since it results always in a crit?
I'm asking this because I was about to suggest this set:

Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning -> Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Frost Breath
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Leech Seed / Water Pulse

Frost Breat ignores every kind of boost to defenses and, if it works as I think, it can reach a BP of 135 (60 BP+Technician=90 BP*1.5 (crit)=135 BP)+STAB, ergo, much more powerful than a simple Blizzard, but without the small chance of freezing the opponent and with 90% accuracy. With a Trick Room team this Pokemon can be really amazing as he doesn't fears statuppers.
Yes that is how it works, effectively making Frost Breath more powerful than Blizzard (assuming Blizzard doesn't crit), as well as bypassing CM users like Clefable.
That set you made is quite strong, and I believe the standard UU AoA mixed set is also really strong; with the buff to Ice Shard, Frost Breath > Blizzard, Bullet Seed > Wood Hammer, and Bulldoze possibly > Earthquake.
Another thing that made Technician Mega Abomasnow a winner is that you can run Soundproof pre mega to check Mega Altaria, which in turn makes Synthesis a viable option to back up your decent 90/105/105 defences.
 
Ya Aboma is a power in every sense of the word with that breath (still happy it was my first win). I always had more success with a slightly mixed set, due to it also getting bullet seed, allowing the coverage of Seed, EQ, HP Fire and Shard/Breath to be slotted in. Special sets are still glorious tho, as really, not much would really want to switch into him depending on what the fella used.

Had never considered Water Pulse on him before. Seem odd to add with the over lay of grass coverage.
 
Ya Aboma is a power in every sense of the word with that breath (still happy it was my first win). I always had more success with a slightly mixed set, due to it also getting bullet seed, allowing the coverage of Seed, EQ, HP Fire and Shard/Breath to be slotted in. Special sets are still glorious tho, as really, not much would really want to switch into him depending on what the fella used.

Had never considered Water Pulse on him before. Seem odd to add with the over lay of grass coverage.
Really, it seems to me more that it's redundant with Frost Breath. All things considered, Frost Breath is 60 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 / 2 = 101BP on singularly resisted hits, while Water Pulse is 120BP. An upgrade, yes, but it would seem more useful to go mixed with, like, Bullet Seed and Earthquake to have a more powerful Grass STAB and bop Heatran, and also not get slowed down by specially defensive opponents. Ice Shard and HP Fire are, of course, options.

A few new theorymons look potent in Trick Room - namely, Donphan, Pangoro, and Ampharos all could function nicely on these teams. Has anyone tried Trick Room here yet?
 
Really, it seems to me more that it's redundant with Frost Breath. All things considered, Frost Breath is 60 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 / 2 = 101BP on singularly resisted hits, while Water Pulse is 120BP. An upgrade, yes, but it would seem more useful to go mixed with, like, Bullet Seed and Earthquake to have a more powerful Grass STAB and bop Heatran, and also not get slowed down by specially defensive opponents. Ice Shard and HP Fire are, of course, options.

A few new theorymons look potent in Trick Room - namely, Donphan, Pangoro, and Ampharos all could function nicely on these teams. Has anyone tried Trick Room here yet?

I think you are overshooting Water Pulse there. Its a base 60 power move that goes up to 90 with Technician last I thought.
 
I think you are overshooting Water Pulse there. Its a base 60 power move that goes up to 90 with Technician last I thought.
... you're right, I completely forgot to apply Technician there. My bad.

I still think the mixed set seems more promising, but not to the point of totally outclassing the Special set.
 
Where you do guys usually hang out on PS!? I ask the OU room all the time, but I've never gotten a response. I'm always in Other Metas.

I can't really propose ranking changes if I never battle .-.
 
Where you do guys usually hang out on PS!? I ask the OU room all the time, but I've never gotten a response. I'm always in Other Metas.

I can't really propose ranking changes if I never battle .-.
I'm moderately busy with school atm, so I don't have too much time for PS and my time zone generally doesn't help (i.e. This last spark of interest all occurred between 2 and 3 AM).
However, if anyone does manage to catch me online I'll be hovering around Other Metas and will usually be down for a battle.
 
Added
+ Trace
+ Poison Heal
+ Dragon Dance
The Immortal

Initial viability rankings placements people?

EDIT: Also I'm strongly considering Hydreigon for S if anyone has an opinion on that. I shouldn't have to explain why. Shit be crazy.
 
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Added
+ Trace
+ Poison Heal
+ Dragon Dance
The Immortal

Where are we thinking of ranking this?
I'm thinking Bs maybe?
Virizion seems like a solid B-choice. I don't see how a Trace user can define the metagame so much as be defined by it, but given how well it performs against so many highly ranked 'mons, B or B+ seems like it would be appropriate.

No comment on the others, since I wasn't really around for their discussion.
 
My associate is having PS problems so I haven't been able to test much.
I can see Virizion and Krook being B or B+
Krook I think is reasonably comparable to Feraligatr.

Haven't been able to test Gastrodon yet but I can see it possibly being B+ or A-, as Poison Heal is generally very strong on bulky mons, and Gastrodon only has one weakness too.

Also I'm moving Hydreigon to S because it is just ridiculous with no counters and is even lacking in situation switch ins. The only reliable way to deal with it is revenge or not let it in. But with the other tools available in this meta like Swanna's Tailwind and Absol's Parting Shot even that can be extremely difficult.
 
Speaking of ranking placements, I realized that both Hoopa forms still weren't placed anywhere on the viability rankings. Therefore, I'm proposing to place them in the same rank as they are in the OU metagame (S for Hoopa-U and B- for Hoopa-C) as a starting point before defining their true viability in this metagame.

However, seeing that some relevant Theorymons are able to deal with Hoopa-U (Entei, M-Steelix, Braviary, M-Pidgeot, and others), I think Hoopa-U would probably better fit in A+, but its great damage output, versatility and unpredictability might just make it worth of S rank.

What do you guys think about their placement?
 
Speaking of ranking placements, I realized that both Hoopa forms still weren't placed anywhere on the viability rankings. Therefore, I'm proposing to place them in the same rank as they are in the OU metagame (S for Hoopa-U and B- for Hoopa-C) as a starting point before defining their true viability in this metagame.

However, seeing that some relevant Theorymons are able to deal with Hoopa-U (Entei, M-Steelix, Braviary, M-Pidgeot, and others), I think Hoopa-U would probably better fit in A+, but its great damage output, versatility and unpredictability might just make it worth of S rank.

What do you guys think about their placement?
I think that you're probably right, there. m-beedrill in particular has major capability to pummel hoopa while maintaining momentum. So I'd second the nom to a+. also, we have buckets of great wallbreakers in this meta, so I think that his effectiveness is reduced.
 
Removed Protean Hydreigon and Moxie Weavile.
The Immortal

some thoughts on the current vr rankings

latis need to move down a subrank or two (like latios to a/a- and latias to a-/b+)
honestly i think the latis are really overshadowed in the current meta and have too much pressure put on them. as a wallbreaker, id much rather use hydreigon or kyurem, who are far better at punching holes than either of the latis thanks to killer coverage and protean/sheer force. while yes, they might lack the speed the latis have, they can fairly easily slap on a choice scarf, while still threatening both offensive and defensive teams. the prevelance of dark-types, such as WEAVILE, bisharp, and krook, arent doing it any favors either. honestly i think the latis are really underwhelming and should drop.

kyurem-b should drop, really hard. like, to b or something lol. outclassed as a special attacker by vanilla kyurem, and its shit as a physical attacker since it relies on outrage to do damage to anything, and this is really shitty considering giving free turns to smth like alt is a death sentence.

goth, cress, chansey, all the other shit on stall to c-
stall is so matchup based its crazy tbh. i really dont think you would/should ever use stall considering that theres so many good wall/stallbreakers. use granbull/p2 spikestack balance its good i swear
With the council choosing to remove the 2 strongest dark types in the tier (thank god Hydreigon is gone) I think I'll hold off on the Lati drops. With Hydra gone it also means we don't need to drop everything stall.

Kyurem-B has been rising and dropping in comparison to SF Kyurem. I'd really like to hear more opinions on its placements before I substantially drop it again only for a few to pop in and say it should be higher.

EDIT: Also adding
Dragon/Ghost Mega Latios with Analytic. Discuss placement.
 
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Valmanway

My jimmies remain unrustled
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I'll make this short.

I think Mega Latios should be B+/B as a start. Losing STAB on Psyshock hurts its ability to damage special walls, Analytic won't work on anything slower (namely every wall in OU), losing Levitate makes it vulnerable to Spikes and such, and it's still eating up your Mega Slot. However, a defensive spinblocker is already a nice selling point, Analytic Draco Meteors make switching into Mega Latios a challenge when lacking Fairies and Steels, Dragon / Ghost coverage is nearly unresisted, and you can bluff having a different Mega Evolution since regular Latios is still plenty viable.
 
Not really getting any discussion (cries softly), so I'm just gonna go ahead and move Mega Latios and Kyurem Black both to B+ tomorrow (assuming no one objects before then).
 
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im looking forward to testing wm. I'll be avaliable bout 1140 to 2 central us time tomorrow if anyone wants to test em (will be in mono and other metas)
 
I'd put torterra+drought in c+, given on how mediocre sun is rn. I feel like moving M-bannette up two subranks to B- would be entirely fair to start with. will need to try these things out asap.
 
Been beyond busy this week but finally managed to get some testing done on Torterra just now.

Tbh sun is seeming extremely strong. I made a sun team with Torterra as my only theorymon and won 10/10 against 10 different other theorymon teams. Also had a Mamoswine to try get rid of Fire resists and other stuff but I haven't had to send it in once in my 10 games, so technically I've been winning 5 vs 6.
Torterra honestly makes all the difference for sun. It can set up sun so reliably throughout the match and is a fantastic Physical wall. Its powerful dual STABs are very handy and it is one of the better Azumaril checks out there. It also beats other weather setters. Sun already had extremely powerful sweepers.

Here's one replay of Torterra playing its role perfectly vs a Theorymon Rain team
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/outheorymon-273087474

Haven't been able to use Mega Banette at all yet though.

If anyone has any input just know that I wanna have these ranked within the next couple days.
 
Been beyond busy this week but finally managed to get some testing done on Torterra just now.

Tbh sun is seeming extremely strong. I made a sun team with Torterra as my only theorymon and won 10/10 against 10 different other theorymon teams. Also had a Mamoswine to try get rid of Fire resists and other stuff but I haven't had to send it in once in my 10 games, so technically I've been winning 5 vs 6.
Torterra honestly makes all the difference for sun. It can set up sun so reliably throughout the match and is a fantastic Physical wall. Its powerful dual STABs are very handy and it is one of the better Azumaril checks out there. It also beats other weather setters. Sun already had extremely powerful sweepers.

Here's one replay of Torterra playing its role perfectly vs a Theorymon Rain team
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/outheorymon-273087474

Haven't been able to use Mega Banette at all yet though.

If anyone has any input just know that I we t have these ranked within the next couple days.
While i enjoy the replay, seems little silly keeping Tor in there since seemed riskier than all hell but killed Polit anyway so worked well.

One thing id say is that i would get a nice kick out of Victribell on that team, just cause its a fun Chloro sweeper. since with the fire coverage already, go forgo weather ball (loses the high power bomb of doom tho) for a sucker punch to try and have an emergency sun priority move for talon (really redundant in context) or ya know, could just use the plant :D

Tor just needs to have a nice buddy with if who can take some ice moves and water. Heatran can do ice but a team mate i wish we had for him would be Volcanion. would just be too fantastic. I wouldnt mind seeing him ranked around poli (either below or right on him). Not knocking the mighty tortoise but just feel that sun has its setter but still doesnt quite have some of the beauty in sweepers like rain. Thats more of just a thought even if sun would rather just be an all out nuke em (which it is fine with anyway) than a set and sweep.

EDIT: Spelling errors run rampant there. Phone and in between college classes at the moment so had to write thoughts in a hurry.
 
well dang! i seem to have been proven wrong about torterra. it really can be effective! i'm quite impressed, tbh. based on those replays, we should put it in b /b- at least. I wish the theorymon project could fix hail too, but I don't think anything other that mega rayquaza getting it and moving back to OU could possibly make it viable lol.
 
If anyone is interested for some OU Theorymon battles, I'll be in the OM room on PS! for the next couple of hours or so.
 
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