OU Analyses Discussion Thread

Choice Band Weavile is inferior to Life Orb unless you are using that ABR stall team; the ability to switch moves is much more valuable than a 20% power boost in general (again, unless you are using Weavile on stall)
Yeah, forgot to mention that, good point. Besides that it is bad on offensive teams obviously and I agree with p2 I think it still deserves a mention in OO.
 

Martin

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Snoo If something is directly outclassed then there is literally no reason for it to retain a set. The reasoning that was used to get Specs Kyu-B a set originally was horrendously flawed (surprise value (i.e. it's a gimmick, and this reasoning doesn't consider important things that it loses out on over regular Kyu or LO Kyu-B) and Teravolt Earth Power (Draco OHKOs Rotom-W anyway and is no less abusable considering that they will just go into whatever can take an Earth Power after Rotom-W dies anyway--plus noone sane is using Rotom-W as their Kyu answer outside of hard predictions). If we removed stuff just because people put the time into writing then we wouldn't ever revamp analyses because these are, by definition, overwriting people's hard work in favor of something which is more worth being on the analysis (or, in the case of Specs Kyu-B, removing in favor of an analysis which is a more accurate interpretation of it's place in the metagame).
 
I looked at latios analysis page and HP fire isnt on the LO set :0 unless my eye are playing tricks on me. also I think it worth slashing Earth quake on LO latios personally but HP Fire like come on lol am I seeing things? Why isnt it on there?
 
slowking needs a revamp, the analysis list grass knot metagross wich is not that common nowdays, and also reading the descrpition of the mon, it looks like totally overshadow by slowbro, also according the VR sets, CM>defensive>AV

Hootie Edit: The overview will get significant changes once its CM set is finished and uploaded
 

Eclipse

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Some thoughts on Alakazam, as I feel there are some things on its analysis that need updating:

: I feel that in the current meta, Calm Mind is the best move in the final slot for Mega Zam due to its ability to act as a great late-game wincon against bulkier builds due to the power and against offense obviously due to its speed, and while its noted in the analysis that the final slot is team-dependent, Calm Mind overall feels more consistent and threatening than the other options, so I would personally put Calm Mind as the primary option in the final slot while slashing Encore alongside it, and keeping Sub in the Set Details, looking like this:

Move 4: Calm Mind / Encore

And another thing I noticed, is that in Other Options it mentions the "dedicated stallbreaker" set in Taunt + Encore, but this should be changed to mention the more current stallbreaker set instead in Knock Off + Dazzling Gleam + Psyshock, which is far more effective at screwing over common stall builds at the moment, doesn't limit you to two coverage slots, and works best with either LO or Mega Zam (I personally prefer LO for this set, although I understand why you would use Mega Zam for it). Just some thoughts I had that would serve as great updates to the current analysis, would like to know if you guys agreed with it or not.
 
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Mega Gallade's analysis needs to be a lot more negative. If you look at the first two sentences of its analysis, you will see it is quite overfluffed:

Gallade's Mega Evolution grants it a crucial Speed boost and a massive Attack increase that meshes well with its expansive movepool to make for a worthy addition to any offensive team. Mega Gallade's versatility is unparalleled, boasting great boosting moves such as Swords Dance and Bulk Up, as well as great utility options such as Will-O-Wisp and Skill Swap.
Mega Gallade is quite mediocre, having to compete with one of the best wallbreakers in OU with literally the same typing and sitting at a speed tier that makes it difficult to justify using your Mega slot for it. This needs to echo throughout this analysis, for Mega Gallade was never that good of a Pokemon in OU to begin with.
 

HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
can grass knot be unslashed on thundurus? its a very niche option, much more than a slash would imply especially given the low hippo usage recently. i would definitely say it shouldnt be slashed with hp ice anywhere as imo hp ice is pretty much mandatory on every thundurus so you arent total bait for shit like lando and garchomp.

also i dont really think volt switch thundy is a good set. taunt is fine but rocks wear it down very fast, its already frail, and it ends up without spammable stab to hit things with. your only stab forcing you out kind of sucks and youre just super easily taken advantage of. i would much rather run just taunt+3 attacks or taunt + twave + 2 attacks or something along those lines.

also i would make mixed attacker the main set its incredibly deadly it doesnt really have a lot of reliable answers and prevents it from being revenge killed by some of the most common stuff used to revenge kill it like latios. the decline in usage of dragon dancers like mega alt and gyara helps it out a lot in slightly eclipsing twave + 3 attacks too. idk maybe im not explaining why i think this very well but i think its the best set right now and it has pretty impeccable coverage. even stuff like amoonguss ends up losing its item and people arent using much mega venu so i think its pretty solid right now.
 

AM

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I think NP Thundurus is the best personally, customizable. Mixed afterwards or w/e after NP dc.
 
I agree that Grass Knot should be unslashed. A mention in other options is pretty much good enough for it. I have used it several times and I found myself relying on it really rarely.

Volt Switch on Thundy-i is legit bad. With a rocks weakness already and having to click Volt Switch on water types everytime and switch out is just really annoying to do and imo defeats the purpose of it. If you run both maybe it's fine but why would you sacrifice coverage?

Personally I feel that Mixed is easier to deal with than the NP set, just that it surprises you. Imo the NP set is probably better.
 

HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
just a few things i think could be changed

in the clefable analysis i think 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Bold deserves a mention in set details for standard cm and sr sets as it isnt brought up anywhere atm besides in the unaware set but its been getting a lot of usage recently and is a pretty viable option on mg sets

speaking of the unaware sets even if the spread isnt getting changed to a specially defensive one i would remove mentions of clefable checking sd lando-t (2hkoed by earth plate eq, clef cant ohko back) and mega pinsir (2hkoed by return, clef cant ohko back) and breloom (very high chance to ohko clef if ada bullet seed hits 5 times) in set details. additionally i wouldnt say it checks zardx either as its 2hkoed by flare blitz and, again, cannot ohko back. i dont really understand how clef checks any of these mons at all.

in the dnite analysis theres already mention of a subdd set but it doesnt say fly can be used as dragonites main attacking move with it. it has a pretty cool effect of hitting everything and giving lefties extra turns to regen, so i think its worth a mention.

for ferrothorn i think occa berry should be mentioned in set details to take on stuff that commonly runs fire coverage moves like mega diancie and latios more reliably.

in the mega garde analysis i would give sub + cm a mention in other options as its seen some usage and can work despite being walled by poison types.

the latios analysis should probably mention psychic as an option in moves as it has higher base power and the ability to hit on the special side to hit things like lando-t, rotom-w, and suicune much harder than psyshock without the nasty special attack drops. it also has use in destroying bold clef that think they can safely switch into you.

for magnezone's analysis i would mention chople berry as an option to lure various pokemon like mega garde, mega zam, and thundurus that commonly run focus blast as coverage to hit zone.

mega sableye's icon on the dex (like how it appears in the sidebar when you search for it) is the same as regular sableye
 

Martin

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I don't have the time/energy to write one but I think Choice Specs Latios definitely deserves an analysis at this point as it's honestly it's best set and has been hyped for its ability to completely dismantal a lot of fatter teams
 

Eclipse

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Minor thing here, but for Bulky Will-O Zard-X, i'd change the spread just a bit to 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 Spe Impish as opposed to 160 Speed. This spread still hits the jump point in Defense and, most importantly, allows you to get the jump on Max Speed Tran, which is 100% the main target I want to outspeed with this set so I don't get hit with a Toxic or whatever before I can smack it with EQ. The loss in 3 points in Defense shouldn't matter when you can now outspeed a relevant target, which makes this spread more optimal over the main spread, IMO.

Also if you implement this, make sure to do the same for the specially defensive set in Set Details (change to 248 HP / 188 SpD / 72 Spe Jolly)
 
Garchomp's analysis should probably have a LO SD 3 attacks set. Garchomp's LO boosted attacks are really scary and give it the ability to break through many Pokemon like Slowbro, Celfable, etc. after an SD boost. If i'm not mistaken, its been one of Garchomp's best sets for a while now so I'm surprised its not on the analysis.
 
Scolipede needs a Baton Pass set

Scolipede is a very mediocre Pokemon by itself, but what it does for its teammates is where Scolipede really shines. OU has plenty of wallbreakers that can abuse this, to name a few; Tail Glow Manaphy, Kyurem-Black, Diggersby, Specs Hydreigon, and Mega Heracross and Mega Medicham (though the former has terrible type synergy and the latter has trouble getting in safely). I've had the most success with Protect/Baton Pass/Megahorn/Aqua Tail, and Aqua Tail is absolutely mandatory since it lures in stuff Landorus-Therian and Gliscor which would otherwise be a massive pain for it. And honestly Poison Jab is pretty useless since it doesn't get many things that Megahorn can't outside of Clefable and unless it's running the rare Flamethrower you're not going to be switching Clefable into Scolipede anyways.

In the other options it says "but it's unable to pass other boosts." So fucking what? That doesn't make the set bad, it just means that it's not better than it already is, and the set is still really good. It's like taking the Mega Alakazam set off of Alakazam's analysis and then adding in the other options "Mega Alakazam is an option but it can't hold an item"
 
if you're using scoli for the sole purpose of bp, sub is mandatory imo to get boosts easier and prevent things like talon from hitting scoli or the recipient with unnecessary damage.
 

Martin

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If ur running BP Scoli you aren't using Aqua Tail, and MegaCham is a bad recipient. The set you listed sounds super suboptimal considering that these types of teams have no difficulty fighting Lando-T.

Sub+Tect+Pass+Megahorn is what should be listed if it does get one (Attract is a mediocre gimmick which, from my experience, just opens up the MegaZam weakness more whereas uninvested Scolipede is too weak to put its coverage to good use), but honestly with ScoliPass dropping off again I'm honestly not sure whether it's even worth giving it a full write-up. I think the BP mention in OO could be made a bit more accurate and specific and not under-sell it as much as it does, but that's something that can be handled with a simple SCMS edit.
 
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HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
Reuni analysis definitely should have shadow ball unslashed bc honestly you cant justify it in such a pursuit heavy meta and it should be mentioned how it makes you total pursuit bait in moves (or just move to oo). signal beam could probably do with a mention in moves as it lets you hit most darks and psychics for decent dmg though it isnt as much of a ttar deterrent as focus blast is which is pretty problematic

spikes should probably be slashed before rocks on ferrothorn analysis bc sr is honestly more of a niche option and spikes is one of ferro's main selling points.
 

Six Trails

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Tyranitar's support set claims that the EV spread (248 HP / 80+ Def / 180 SpD) allows it to take two +1 Dragon Claws from Mega Charizard X after Stealth Rock damage, however:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 199-235 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The spread only avoids the 2HKO from a +0 Mega Charizard X (even with Adamant for whatever that is worth).

Also, I think the spread should just be changed to 252 HP / 76+ Def / 180 SpD. Since neither 403 nor 404 are divisible by 8, the damage taken from Stealth Rock is the same (I think, someone correct me if I am mistaken).
 

Martin

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Tyranitar's support set claims that the EV spread (248 HP / 80+ Def / 180 SpD) allows it to take two +1 Dragon Claws from Mega Charizard X after Stealth Rock damage, however:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 199-235 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The spread only avoids the 2HKO from a +0 Mega Charizard X (even with Adamant for whatever that is worth).

Also, I think the spread should just be changed to 252 HP / 76+ Def / 180 SpD. Since neither 403 nor 404 are divisible by 8, the damage taken from Stealth Rock is the same (I think, someone correct me if I am mistaken).
The SR thing is the same, but 404 is divisible by 4--meaning that it takes 25% from spikes as opposed to (25%-1 HP) like is the case with 248.
 

bludz

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Tyranitar's support set claims that the EV spread (248 HP / 80+ Def / 180 SpD) allows it to take two +1 Dragon Claws from Mega Charizard X after Stealth Rock damage, however:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 199-235 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The spread only avoids the 2HKO from a +0 Mega Charizard X (even with Adamant for whatever that is worth).

Also, I think the spread should just be changed to 252 HP / 76+ Def / 180 SpD. Since neither 403 nor 404 are divisible by 8, the damage taken from Stealth Rock is the same (I think, someone correct me if I am mistaken).
The analysis is mis-worded. This spread is supposed to take 2 neutral Dragon Claws (taking Adamant Charizard into account as a possibility) after Stealth Rock:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 148-175 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Taking 2 +1 Dragon Claws isn't necessary: this requires 3 moves from Charizard while Tyranitar only needs one turn to switch in. Charizard can either DD once and attack once before Tyranitar gets the chance to retaliate, or it can attack twice - once on the switch and once after Ttar gets in. Either way, Tyranitar will live and be able to fire off a Stone Edge.

I'll submit an edit to the analysis to remove the "+1" from that section because it's incorrect
 
or you
The analysis is mis-worded. This spread is supposed to take 2 neutral Dragon Claws (taking Adamant Charizard into account as a possibility) after Stealth Rock:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 148-175 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Taking 2 +1 Dragon Claws isn't necessary: this requires 3 moves from Charizard while Tyranitar only needs one turn to switch in. Charizard can either DD once and attack once before Tyranitar gets the chance to retaliate, or it can attack twice - once on the switch and once after Ttar gets in. Either way, Tyranitar will live and be able to fire off a Stone Edge.

I'll submit an edit to the analysis to remove the "+1" from that section because it's incorrect
or you could just rock slide for more accuracy, then d dance set up
 

Freeroamer

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Something I found earlier when reading a whole load of analyses cos I haven't played OU in a while and I wanted to build some teams is a bit of a lazy cliche in team options. About 80% of offensive pokemon have "Volt Switch or U-Turn are great ways to bring this pokemon in" without actually making any reference to which works well with the pokemon and which pokemon are ideal. Not wanted to single whoever wrote it but the Volcanion analysis is a good example of this. Why not mention that Landorus-T and Mega Scizor are great partners because they commonly get U-turns out of Skarm, Ferro, opposing Lando-t and even Heatran in Scizor's case, all pokemon Volcanion would like to face 1v1. Also is Volt Switch really ideal? Common Volt Switch pivots include Chansey, Excadrill, Latis, electrics which Volcanion doesn't match up too well vs. I know it seems pedantic over one line but I literally read like 10-12 analyses with that same line and it's not really giving any information to the person who's trying to learn how to use the pokemon.
 

bludz

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Hi, here are some quotes from the Team Options portion of the Volcanion analysis:

"Landorus-T is a good partner because it provides Stealth Rock and U-turn support and checks many of the quicker Ground-types that can threaten Volcanion with STAB Earthquake."

"Volcanion greatly appreciates VoltTurn support to get free switches in, so partners like Tornadus-T and Rotom-W can prove very useful. Jirachi is another good pivot to pair with Volcanion, since it lures in Heatran and Ferrothorn and can use Healing Wish to bring Volcanion back to full HP later."

The Usage Tips section will generally state something about VoltTurn support and then the Team Options will elaborate on the partners that fit into this category. As a member of the QC team I believe I can speak for all of us in saying we try to make sure if people mention VoltTurn support then they give specific examples in the Team Options section.

If you notice one of the analyses that is specifically missing it then please let us know

As for your Volt Switch point I think that's a fair thought. I would argue that using Volt Switch to wear down these checks/counters is good for Volcanion as well. You may not bring in Volcanion against them, but if a Chansey switches in on your Rotom's Volt switch out into a Fighting-type, it will take Volt Switch (+ maybe Stealth Rock) damage, have to switch out, and after a few iterations it will not be able to switch into Specs Volcanion. It's true that this isn't fully elaborated on, so that is something that could potentially be added. There are other Volt Switch switch-ins like Ferrothorn or Amoonguss which are also prevalent things Volcanion can threaten
 
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