SM OU Offensive Zapdos - need some ideas (currently 1603)

What's good?

I got an offensive Zapdos squad waiting for some new ideas to be improved. So feel free to give some of your thoughts. I'd greatly appreciate it.

ZapBoss
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and the Gang
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Tbh this team was a Naganadel squad at first, but after it got banned, I replaced it with Ash-Gren, because I needed a strong special attacking presence. After some testing, I had to admit that it was very weak to the Hawlucha + Terrain Seed (esp. +PhyDef with Koko) combination. Thus I replaced it with offensive Zapdos and adjusted the team. After some further testing, I noticed most problems with Mega-Venusaur. I put Zen Headbutt on Bulu for that reason, but it needs to much prediction on my part in order to get it on the switch in. I was debating HP Flying on Zapdos, but I feel like the lack of ice coverage hurts more than it helps.

I would like to keep the Zapdos offensive, so yes, i know, offensive Sciz and putting Defog on Zap could improve the team, but that's not the route I wanna go. As Scizor is in my opinion an even more reliable Hazard Remover, I want to keep it that way to counter the abundance of Sticky Web teams. Scizor can Defog even on Bisharp. For every other suggestion, I'll thank you in advance.

So let us get into Detail with all sets:
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Zapdos:
The Bird, the Myth, the Legend. The set is pretty self-explanatory. Thunderbolt with Electrium-Z always kills Tapu Lele after Rocks and Gigavolt Havoc has a good chance of killing Magma-Tran after Rocks. That is the reason, why i do not put on Discharge. It almost always fails to kill. Timid nature is to outspeed Lele, as long it is not Scarf, and if it is Scarf, it does not kill Zapdos. HP Ice, of course, for mainly Lando; Heatwave for Steel Types. Not much to explain here, i guess.

T-Bolt Gigavolt Havoc
252 SpA Zapdos Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 264-312 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Zapdos Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 246-291 (87.5 - 103.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Discharge Gigavolt Havoc
252 SpA Zapdos Gigavolt Havoc (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 241-285 (74.6 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Zapdos Gigavolt Havoc (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 225-265 (80 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

ZapBoss (Zapdos) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost


As more often than not, people have Ice coverage to really hurt Zapdos. As my Zapdos has no bulk, I needed an Ice resist, which triggered my ORAS memory - Sub CM Keldeo.
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Keldeo:
Keldeo also gets rid of the biggest counter to any special attacker such as Zapdos - Chansey. And with Toxapex running only Scald or Knock Off, it can easily burn it and helps to wear down that annoying thing. Yes, Zapdos beats Toxapex, but it is always good to have some other countermeasures. For about 50 games, I even tried maxHP maxSPE Keldeo, but the lack of power proved to be a problem, while Ash-Gren, for example, is soft-checked by an offensive Keldeo as well. Also, maxHP Keldeo failed to 2HKO Chansey.

Greninja (Battle Bond not activated)
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 124-147 (38.3 - 45.5%)
Greninja (Battle Bond activated)
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 165-195 (51 - 60.3%)
vs. Chansey (maxHP)
0 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 302-356 (42.9 - 50.6%)
vs. Chansey (maxSPA)
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 368-434 (52.3 - 61.7%)
Toxapex's hits to break sub (maxHp)
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 28-33 (7.2 - 8.5%)
3-4 hits to break the sub
Toxapex's hits to break sub (0HP)
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 28-33 (8.6 - 10.2%)
always 3 hits to break the sub

Keldeo-Resolute @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Calm Mind
- Substitute


Nevertheless, I was weak to Bolt-Beam and Blacephalon. So I added a Heatran:

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Heatran:
Heatran, first, has been Magma-Tran, but Blacephalons carrying HP Ground or Z-Shadow Ball gave me problems. Also, Scarf Lele and Mega-Alakazam were able to OHKO. 140 SpDef Evs ensured to live all these. And with other mons on the team to deal with physical Threats, I decided to go no HP but SpDef invested. This, I know, seems strange, but worked for me. With the loss of SpAtt EVs I also decided I would go with Lava Plume, just because it's more reliable and my Heatran Set does not hit as hard as the Trapper Set.

Blacephalon
252+ SpA Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Heatran: 272-320 (84.2 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Blacephalon Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Heatran: 268-316 (82.9 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tapu Lele
252 SpA Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Heatran: 218-258 (67.4 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mega-Alakazam
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Heatran: 272-322 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 116 SpA / 140 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt


After adding the Heatran, it was pretty obvious that its perfect partner could fit on the team - Tapu Bulu:

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Tapu Bulu:
I decided to go with the Choice Banded Set. Bulu 2HKOs defensive Lando-T on the switch-in, even intimidated. It also has a chance to OHKO the standard Pex, which is always killed with Rocks up. Bulu is on this team to wallbreak, dealing with defensive backbones of BO and Balance. Zen Headbutt is supposed to hit Venu on the switch-in, as it is the biggest threat to this team.

Landorus-T
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian in Grassy Terrain: 256-303 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Toxapex
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Grassy Terrain: 268-316 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt


At this point, the team had hard hitters on both sides, set-up, wallbreaking, and Stealth Rocks. What it lacked, was hazard removal, speed, and physical defense. So Scarf Lando and Mega Scizor were added:

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Scizor-Mega:
Scizor carries Defog and as it is not 2HKOed by Bisharps Knock Off, it is my way of dealing with the plenty of Sticky Web teams on the ladder. It also checks Mega Lopunny, can at least pivot in to Mega Medicham or check it if intimidated, while also providing the team with a Fairy check and much needed priority. Its fire weakness is, of course, covered by Tran.

Bisharp (+2 Att)
+2 252 Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 141-166 (41.1 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Mega Medicham (-1 Att)
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 201-237 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Lopunny
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 126-148 (36.7 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost


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Landorus-T:
At this point in Pokemon, you should not have to explain a defensive or Scarf Lando-T. Everything is standard but the rock slide. Lando is my Volcarona check, as long as it does not care HP Ice. Rock Slide also helps with Pinsir and the Zards. Stone Edge is not really needed for anything, so I went with the flinch chance and better accuracy.

Volcarona
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 243-286 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rock Slide


The biggest threats of this team are Volcarona and Venusaur-Mega. If you can think of better measures against them, feel free to comment. A way to deal with both can be found in the "TLDR" section below.

FOR A SHORTER SUMMARY OF THE TEAM CLICK HERE
Zapdos:
- Offensive, Hard Special Hitter
Keldeo:
- Sub CM, Set-Up Sweeper, Semi-Stallbreaker
Heatran:
- Pseudo Special Tank, Semi-Stallbreaker, Stealth Rocker
Tapu Bulu:
- Wallbreaker, Hard Physical Hitter
Scizor:
- Hazard Remover, Physical Tank
Landorus-T:
- Momentum- Gainer, Cleaner

Threats:
Volcarona
Between Heatran and Rock Slide from Lando, you should be able to deal with it, if you are not able to keep Rocks up. Volc is the scariest, if they run Timid.
Venusaur-Mega
Weaken it, taunt it and get it on the switch-in to Bulu. But be careful - even Band Bulu does only between 61 and 72 %.

Please feel free to give me your thoughts on this team and how i could possibly improve it. If you want to try it out, this is the Pokepast:
https://pokepast.es/7433368053c27a28

THANKS
 

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Last edited:
Taking a look, I've just got a couple of comments.
First, your Keldeo is Hasty. Not quite sure why it's not Timid.
Second, if Volc is your primary speed-threat, Lando doesn't really provide speed control. You could use something like Scarf Brave Bird Koko, which would also be able to nail Venusaur while still providing u-turn pivoting. Equivalently Nihilego, Greninja, Blacephalon and Garchomp can all provide scarf support that outspeeds and should beat Volc 1v1.
(Blace might not seem like it does the job but if you're looking to counter Volc you go HP Rock and 2HKO at +1, while eating any hit not named HP Ground. And even then you have a 1/8 chance of eating HP.)

The problem is, if you do this without Koko, you lose all pivot potential, and struggle to bring Bulu in. In that case I'd be tempted to switch TBolt on Zap for Volt Switch.

Venusaur is much more of a pain. You can't just keep Bulu in if you're not killing it, and that 10% chance of just losing isn't nice. None of the scarfers I suggested really break it except Koko, and Garchomp if your opponent chokes. That said, Heatran can always taunt it and beat it unless they're carrying Earthquake, which you can scout for with a double to Bulu. I dont really see it being that much of a problem for the team, as HP Fire variants are walled by Tran, and EQ/KO variants are walled by Scizor.


So yeah, this is the only change I would make:

Landorus ->
Tapu Koko @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 136 Atk / 252 SpA / 88 SpD / 32 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Discharge
- Brave Bird
- Nature's Madness

This set might look really really wierd. Because it is. The attack ensures an OHKO on timid volcarona with Brave Bird, and the SpD ensures you live TrapTran's Earth Power. Even after Rocks, the roll is in your favour. The speed creeps ScarfChomp, and then we dump into SpA for power. You can replace Discharge with TBolt if you think damage matters more, and replace U-turn/Madness with Switch if you think ground types aren't a problem for the team. Honestly I chucked Madness on there because I thought various things would wall this, but I can't think of many other than Tran, so it might just be worth putting HP Ground on it. (Although this still fails to 2HKO SpD Tran.)
 
TheTapDancer thank you very much!

I don't know what was wrong with Keldeo's export... i have it Timid in my teambuilder... but, yeah you are right!

I like the Koko suggestion. I'll give it a try... Not having an Electric immunity is kinda scary, but I guess, the resistance of Bulu could work in that case.

Volt Switch on Zapdos, however, has the same problems as Discharge... It just fails to get important KOs with Gigavolt Havoc.

But, again, I very much appreciate your Feedback! Thank you!
 
TheTapDancer thank you very much!

I don't know what was wrong with Keldeo's export... i have it Timid in my teambuilder... but, yeah you are right!

I like the Koko suggestion. I'll give it a try... Not having an Electric immunity is kinda scary, but I guess, the resistance of Bulu could work in that case.

Volt Switch on Zapdos, however, has the same problems as Discharge... It just fails to get important KOs with Gigavolt Havoc.

But, again, I very much appreciate your Feedback! Thank you!
You're right that you're missing some OHKOs, but the team now has electric terrain support, so it might not matter so much.
 
Ok, to be more specific... Lele plus Mag gets out of hand in my opinion... Without Lando, I cannot soft check Modest Double Dance Mag, so I need to OHKO Lele, if it is also on the team. Heatran cannot be the measure for both. And also with Lele on the opposing side I cannot be sure that Electric terrain is up... I am in the process of trying Koko, but i think, I will stick to T-Bolt on Zapdos. But be sure to check the thread again, as I will report how Koko is doing!
 
Hello, I can give you some tips that I think could make this team better. Gonna make this hopefully effective for you.

I think you should change your heatran moveset. Running magma storm / earth power / stealth rock / taunt could really go a long way. This is because sub + cm keldeo (personally I'm not a fan of it) has a lot of problems to worry about, primarily toxapex (which it's never beating on its own because haze has more pp than cm) then secondarily, av bulu and av tangrowth which has sorta fallen out of favor. You can trap toxapex with heatran and remove it which will clear a huge roadblock for sub + cm keldeo to put in work. Toxapex is usually infamously paired with celesteela or mega scizor and a zapdos sponge like clefable (which you could eliminate with a gigavolt havoc from zapdos but that's not the most reliable) or mega latias for example, so relying on them to remove it isn't the best idea. Ev wise i think you can you can either run a more specially defensive set of 248hp / 220spdef / 40spe with a calm nature or 252hp / 4spd / 252spe but I think that a more specially defensive spread will benefit you because that way, heatran can at least take scarf shadow balls from blacephalon reasonably well and also act as sort of a soft tapu koko check. Be aware that specs shadow ball will do 40-45% though. This also traps mega venusaur w/o earthquake, clearing the way for keldeo.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SpD / 40 Spe
Calm Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Sub + sd on tapu bulu can go a long way over choice band here. This set can literally 6-0 certain stall builds and really helps out vs. trick room teams because you can sub on an uxie lead and proceed to stall trick room turns with sd etc. Also,
0 Atk Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. 48 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 62-73 (21.1 - 24.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 48 HP / 204 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Horn Leech
- Superpower

That's all I can offer without butchering the team which I don't think you want me to do. I can see your team has some unaddressed problems like scarf blacephalon going out of hand and sweeping your team via spatk. raises of beast boost if you let heatran get too weakened since you have scarf lando-t. Volcarona is a huge threat but with the amount of hawluchas + cheese styles like mimikyu webs running around on the ladder, I don't think many people will actually use it. Also, your team seems kinda slow with > 100 spe mons being keldeo and scarf lando-t, which can't threaten really scary mons like medicham well enough for example and from making teams myself, they always don't tend to work out for me at least. Gl with the team though, nice work.
 
weirdo faye thank you for your post.

As i wrote, Magma Tran did not work out for this team in any way shape or form. Also, Toxapex has not been a problem at any time. Zapdos, Band Bulu and Lando/Koko dealt with it most of the time. Yes, their partners required me to make so doubles sometimes, but stall has not been the biggest problem. I like the Bulu set, but i prefer it with Fightinium Z, which I can't do because i built around Zapdos. And, also, Clown and Medicham have not been devastating either... Of course, they get one or two kills, but man, that is their job. They are nukes, but they are easily revenge killed. AND: Really checking Medicham is almost impossible without a Mega-Sableye.

I appreciate your input very much, and I think, the team would work with these suggestion, but you solved some problems that weren't there really :D sorry. ;)

Nevertheless, SpDef Magma Tran, Sub Bulu, Scarf Keldeo could be a nice variation of this team. Especially because Scarf Keldeo could check Volc. I will try that out!

THANKS

TheTapDancer Koko works really fine as a scarfer. I really like it.
BUT, my Rain matchup has become worse without doubling around Swampert with Intimidate, especially when Magnezone is on these Rain teams.
 

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