Diamonds_realm Defensive
Rabia Air Balloon
Rabia Air Balloon
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Project Next Best Thing
- Thread starter Shengineer
- Start date
Wadley and Rabia
Rabia and Diamonds
lucario
Congrats Rabia for winning Week 5 of NBT! This offensive memento set feels right at home on HO teams to spinblock and help your teammates set up. See you all very soon for Week 6 ;)
Chandelure @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Memento
Chandelure @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Memento
Week 6: Iron Thorns
This week we’ll be exploring alternative sets for Tyranitar at home!
Submissions will close around 7:00pm GMT-4 on Monday, April 29.
This week we’ll be exploring alternative sets for Tyranitar at home!
Submissions will close around 7:00pm GMT-4 on Monday, April 29.
Dragon Dance + Booster Attack + 3 Attacks
unless its something really heat then maybe
unless its something really heat then maybe
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This week felt harder than initially imagined it to be, but I managed an interesting alternative to the standard DD set with endure + weakness policy.
Iron Thorns @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground/Flying/Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Endure
- Earthquake/Ice punch
- Stone Edge/Supercell Slam
Thorns has 2 problems plaguing it right now and that's it often feels like it needs 2 dragons dances for the power and speed it wants, so i paired it with webs to fix the first, and for the later I ran endure weakness policy. Mons like swampert vileplume and rhyperior to name a few all like trying to trade with you, expecting to comfortably live a +1 attack and beat you in return, but one correct endure to proc weakness policy and suddenely these mons can fall. For a few calcs, +3 stone edge/ice punch/tera ground EQ will OHKO vileplume, +3 tera ground EQ will OHKO max hp rhyperior and does 87.6 - 103.2% to physdef swampert KOing with just a little bit of chip. Other teras can be a nice option as well for immunities after for choice scarf mons such as ghost for meinshao locked into CC or for priority normal and fighting moves or flying for flygon and krookodile locked into EQ all allowing you to set up another DD or 2 if desired. Endure also has other niche utility uses such as stalling an extra turn of weather, blocking attempted fake outs and first impressions, and letting opposing life orb users take an extra turn of recoil damage. Even if you don't outright sweep you still often force a good trade and or scare tera from the opponent opening up one of Thorns teammates to clean up afterwards
Team for Testing:
NBT Thorns Webs (pokepast.es) -Note, a priority user in place of swampert maybe be preferable for specific matchups
Replays:
Dire start turned reverse sweep: Replays - Pokémon Showdown! (pokemonshowdown.com)
Iron Thorns @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground/Flying/Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Endure
- Earthquake/Ice punch
- Stone Edge/Supercell Slam
Thorns has 2 problems plaguing it right now and that's it often feels like it needs 2 dragons dances for the power and speed it wants, so i paired it with webs to fix the first, and for the later I ran endure weakness policy. Mons like swampert vileplume and rhyperior to name a few all like trying to trade with you, expecting to comfortably live a +1 attack and beat you in return, but one correct endure to proc weakness policy and suddenely these mons can fall. For a few calcs, +3 stone edge/ice punch/tera ground EQ will OHKO vileplume, +3 tera ground EQ will OHKO max hp rhyperior and does 87.6 - 103.2% to physdef swampert KOing with just a little bit of chip. Other teras can be a nice option as well for immunities after for choice scarf mons such as ghost for meinshao locked into CC or for priority normal and fighting moves or flying for flygon and krookodile locked into EQ all allowing you to set up another DD or 2 if desired. Endure also has other niche utility uses such as stalling an extra turn of weather, blocking attempted fake outs and first impressions, and letting opposing life orb users take an extra turn of recoil damage. Even if you don't outright sweep you still often force a good trade and or scare tera from the opponent opening up one of Thorns teammates to clean up afterwards
Team for Testing:
NBT Thorns Webs (pokepast.es) -Note, a priority user in place of swampert maybe be preferable for specific matchups
Replays:
Dire start turned reverse sweep: Replays - Pokémon Showdown! (pokemonshowdown.com)
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Assault vest iron thorns
(tldr, don't try and make special iron thorns, it does like 20% to registeel with earth power, this is why special iron treads is mid as well)
Iron Thorns @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Stone Edge
- Volt Switch
- Earthquake/Ice Punch/Low Kick
NU: Smogon, can we have tyranitar?
Smogon: We have tyranitar at home.
Tyranitar at home:
Okay, now that I have that awful joke out of the way, assault vest iron thorns is basically a really, really good special wall, even if they hit you with a 4x super effective hit.
252 SpA Flygon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Iron Thorns: 328-388 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Palossand Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Iron Thorns: 304-360 (75.2 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Iron thorns can take these hits, and if it isn't 4x effective its most likely taking multiple of them. Thunder Punch keeps thorns health in better condition than the other electric moves so it can continue to wall things while stone edge allows it to pack a big punch. Volt switch allows thorns to take the special hit and then slow pivot out to a teammate. The last moveslot is customisable, e-quake is for steel types, ice punch can deal with ground types and low kick can just be a powerful move against heavy targets (idk, use it if you want to, its your choice). Tera flying means it ignores ground moves entirely and due to it potentially threatening all types that are super effective against it, can be pretty deadly.
(tldr, don't try and make special iron thorns, it does like 20% to registeel with earth power, this is why special iron treads is mid as well)
Iron Thorns @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Stone Edge
- Volt Switch
- Earthquake/Ice Punch/Low Kick
NU: Smogon, can we have tyranitar?
Smogon: We have tyranitar at home.
Tyranitar at home:
Okay, now that I have that awful joke out of the way, assault vest iron thorns is basically a really, really good special wall, even if they hit you with a 4x super effective hit.
252 SpA Flygon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Iron Thorns: 328-388 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Palossand Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Iron Thorns: 304-360 (75.2 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Iron thorns can take these hits, and if it isn't 4x effective its most likely taking multiple of them. Thunder Punch keeps thorns health in better condition than the other electric moves so it can continue to wall things while stone edge allows it to pack a big punch. Volt switch allows thorns to take the special hit and then slow pivot out to a teammate. The last moveslot is customisable, e-quake is for steel types, ice punch can deal with ground types and low kick can just be a powerful move against heavy targets (idk, use it if you want to, its your choice). Tera flying means it ignores ground moves entirely and due to it potentially threatening all types that are super effective against it, can be pretty deadly.
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Dual Dance Thorns
Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy / Lum Berry
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Dance
- Supercell Slam
- Ice Punch
Dual Dance set that's basically attack boost overload. This dual dance set allows Iron Thorns to rack up more attack boosts to break down bulkier teams via Swords Dance. Dragon Dance also helps Iron Thorns get more attack boosts and boost its speed to outspeed faster threats. You can use this on Web teams for more speed control. Ice Punch is the chosen coverage move to form a BoltBeam combo that deals with most things in the tier that resist or are immune to Supercell Slam. You can try Lum Berry since this Thorns set has both Swords Dance and Dragon Dance. I chose Tera Ghost so Iron Thorns can become immune to Fighting moves, being useful against Mienshao if you don't have enough Dragon Dance boosts to outspeed Scarf Shao.
Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy / Lum Berry
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Dance
- Supercell Slam
- Ice Punch
Dual Dance set that's basically attack boost overload. This dual dance set allows Iron Thorns to rack up more attack boosts to break down bulkier teams via Swords Dance. Dragon Dance also helps Iron Thorns get more attack boosts and boost its speed to outspeed faster threats. You can use this on Web teams for more speed control. Ice Punch is the chosen coverage move to form a BoltBeam combo that deals with most things in the tier that resist or are immune to Supercell Slam. You can try Lum Berry since this Thorns set has both Swords Dance and Dragon Dance. I chose Tera Ghost so Iron Thorns can become immune to Fighting moves, being useful against Mienshao if you don't have enough Dragon Dance boosts to outspeed Scarf Shao.
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Iron Thorns @ Adrenaline Orb
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Supercell Slam
- Ice Punch
Here we have an offensive Iron Thorns that gives up the Spe boost from Dragon Dance in order to get an extra Atk boost from SD: this way you gain more wallbreaking power.
Supercell Slam is the STAB, whereas Earthquake + Ice Punch is for coverage.
Adrenaline Orb is here in order to punish Intimidate users from trying to revenge kill our beloved Iron Thorns.
Tera Fire is here to prevent from being burned.
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zangoose already beat you to DD+SD by the looks of it
Just wondering if this set is heat enough? Also, if this is allowed, I am reserving you fiends because everything else is gone.
Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 56 HP / 200 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast
- Supercell Slam
- Body Press
- Dragon Dance
HO Lead Iron Thorns
Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 23 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rock Blast
- Taunt
The IVs + Timid nature means you always activate a speed boost (266 Atk vs 267 Spd), and you hit 400 Speed, so out running every other common lead. Galvantula has a very high chance to die from 3 hits Rock Blast still:
0- Atk Iron Thorns Rock Blast (25 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Galvantula: 276-330 (98.2 - 117.4%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO
Taunt stops anything else from setting up hazards / setting up in general, and you're bulky enough to get SR + one layer of spikes pretty reliably. Tera Ghost blocks Rapid Spin, but is probably a waste on the structures this wants to be on
Chuck it on a HO team and have some fun
Edit: damn this was mostly a joke but think it's actually very legit
Replays:
Sniping Galvantula
Bopping another hazard lead
Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 23 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rock Blast
- Taunt
The IVs + Timid nature means you always activate a speed boost (266 Atk vs 267 Spd), and you hit 400 Speed, so out running every other common lead. Galvantula has a very high chance to die from 3 hits Rock Blast still:
0- Atk Iron Thorns Rock Blast (25 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Galvantula: 276-330 (98.2 - 117.4%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO
Taunt stops anything else from setting up hazards / setting up in general, and you're bulky enough to get SR + one layer of spikes pretty reliably. Tera Ghost blocks Rapid Spin, but is probably a waste on the structures this wants to be on
Chuck it on a HO team and have some fun
Edit: damn this was mostly a joke but think it's actually very legit
Replays:
Sniping Galvantula
Bopping another hazard lead
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Cobalion At Home
Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 23 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Rock Blast
- Taunt
Most booster energy mons love to be able to boost their speed; having a threat with a non-locked "choice scarf" can be really deadly! Unfortunately to boost speed you have to have speed as your highest stat and thorns' attack is so you high compared to speed that you really have to lower its attack to get the speed boost. Typically this means that speed boosting thorns is limited to utility/hazard lead sets... but what if I told you it didn't need attack? This set makes use of iron thorns unique mix of physical bulk and speed boost to turn it into a fast and bulky threat. Speed is maximized here with the minus attack nature and 23 IVs so that its attack is less than its speed. 40 defense is the maximum defense thorns can invest in and still maintain the speed boost from booster energy. The remaining EVs were invested into HP.
Since this thorns is speed boosted it can easily outspeed fast physical threats set up iron defenses before it takes a hit, turning top tier mons like lycanroc-dusk and mienshao into setup fodder with Tera Fairy. Taunt let thorns set up on talonflame since it can't burn you after the fast taunt, allowing you to safely rock blast it after (noticeably non-contact) or set up more iron defenses. The fast taunt also allows thorns to serve in an anti-lead role and stop opposing hazard leads like galvantula as well. Klefki is also setup fodder since it cannot t wave you pre-tera and since you are boosting defense instead of attack foul play doesn't do very much. Rock coverage notably also hits 2/4 ghost types in nu that are immune to your body presses. This set is very good at catching people off guard and setting up on their "checks" late game!
Of course I would be remiss to not mention the best stop in the tier to this set
, but if you build to kill slowbro beforehand this set is very effective! A similar set with thunderbolt and 92 spatt EVs was considered to 2 shot slowbro before tera, but I ultimately felt rock blast had more utility into the rest of the tier and awkwardly if slowbro were to tera there isn't much you could do back anyways. In these replays thorns was paired with a mixed shadow ball basculegion (credits to Diamonds_realm for working on that set with me!) to lure slowbro and remove them for thorns. Other notable threats to this set are strong fighting resistances like reuniclus and munkidori, although you outspeed munki if they aren't scarfed and rock blast does decent damage.
Also if you decide to run this set, make a habit of checking your IVs because PS likes to reset the attack back to 31 from 23 which messed up your speed boost.
Replays
Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 23 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Rock Blast
- Taunt
Most booster energy mons love to be able to boost their speed; having a threat with a non-locked "choice scarf" can be really deadly! Unfortunately to boost speed you have to have speed as your highest stat and thorns' attack is so you high compared to speed that you really have to lower its attack to get the speed boost. Typically this means that speed boosting thorns is limited to utility/hazard lead sets... but what if I told you it didn't need attack? This set makes use of iron thorns unique mix of physical bulk and speed boost to turn it into a fast and bulky threat. Speed is maximized here with the minus attack nature and 23 IVs so that its attack is less than its speed. 40 defense is the maximum defense thorns can invest in and still maintain the speed boost from booster energy. The remaining EVs were invested into HP.
Since this thorns is speed boosted it can easily outspeed fast physical threats set up iron defenses before it takes a hit, turning top tier mons like lycanroc-dusk and mienshao into setup fodder with Tera Fairy. Taunt let thorns set up on talonflame since it can't burn you after the fast taunt, allowing you to safely rock blast it after (noticeably non-contact) or set up more iron defenses. The fast taunt also allows thorns to serve in an anti-lead role and stop opposing hazard leads like galvantula as well. Klefki is also setup fodder since it cannot t wave you pre-tera and since you are boosting defense instead of attack foul play doesn't do very much. Rock coverage notably also hits 2/4 ghost types in nu that are immune to your body presses. This set is very good at catching people off guard and setting up on their "checks" late game!
Of course I would be remiss to not mention the best stop in the tier to this set
, but if you build to kill slowbro beforehand this set is very effective! A similar set with thunderbolt and 92 spatt EVs was considered to 2 shot slowbro before tera, but I ultimately felt rock blast had more utility into the rest of the tier and awkwardly if slowbro were to tera there isn't much you could do back anyways. In these replays thorns was paired with a mixed shadow ball basculegion (credits to Diamonds_realm for working on that set with me!) to lure slowbro and remove them for thorns. Other notable threats to this set are strong fighting resistances like reuniclus and munkidori, although you outspeed munki if they aren't scarfed and rock blast does decent damage.Also if you decide to run this set, make a habit of checking your IVs because PS likes to reset the attack back to 31 from 23 which messed up your speed boost.
Replays
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Choice Band Thornulis
Iron Thorns @ Choice Band
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground/Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Supercell Slam
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge / Tera Blast
Booster + setup sets feel pretty one-and-done, losing the boost after a switch out. For this reason, I wanted to give Thorns a chance as a breaker with the use of Choice Band. His coverage is absolutely phenomenal, boasting simultaneous BoltBeam and EdgeQuake coverage - I dare you to find a switch in which is safe against all of these options (not named Quagsire/Swampert). Thorns often sends foes into a panic, believing they have a turn to switch something in, or feel the need to hit what's in front of them. Complemented by his good natural bulk, Thorns can make progress against teams with the more immediate power boost from Choice Band compared to setup sets, which need turns to get going.
Examples:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nu-2112497205-e08q89lm2nyokrs28m0mz0uoto8jv65pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nu-2112517132
Iron Thorns @ Choice Band
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground/Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Supercell Slam
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge / Tera Blast
Booster + setup sets feel pretty one-and-done, losing the boost after a switch out. For this reason, I wanted to give Thorns a chance as a breaker with the use of Choice Band. His coverage is absolutely phenomenal, boasting simultaneous BoltBeam and EdgeQuake coverage - I dare you to find a switch in which is safe against all of these options (not named Quagsire/Swampert). Thorns often sends foes into a panic, believing they have a turn to switch something in, or feel the need to hit what's in front of them. Complemented by his good natural bulk, Thorns can make progress against teams with the more immediate power boost from Choice Band compared to setup sets, which need turns to get going.
Examples:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nu-2112497205-e08q89lm2nyokrs28m0mz0uoto8jv65pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nu-2112517132
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