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Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

Discussion in 'Wi-Fi' started by mingot, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. hublo

    hublo

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    Hello everyone, I would like to rng abuse emerald/ruby and sapphire on VBA but as you know the starting seed is always set and forces you to reach stupidly high frames, so is it possible modify the seed in order to reach good spreads in a reasonable amount of time?
  2. Unknown Warrior

    Unknown Warrior

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    Two ways:

    Emerald: From the very start of the game, your TID is converted into hexadecimal and will be used as your starting seed. ie: if your TID is 11111, you will start from seed 2B67 (that's 11111 converted into hexa). This only works from the very start of the game, if at any point you (soft) reset after that it starts at the default 0000.
    Ruby/Sapphire: Enabling "Use Real Time Clock" allows you to sorta RNG like you would on any Gen IV/V games. The game cycles through seeds depending on days starting form January 1st 2000 and loops every 150 days or so, with your starting seed dependant the day (eg: 56th day, which could be February 25th 2000), the hour and the minute. This can be manipulated by setting your computer's clock.

    Emerald starting seeds Courtesy of .com
    Can't find the seeds .csv for RS though



    Let me fetch you some links.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
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  3. Skymin_Flower

    Skymin_Flower It's Seed Flare time.

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    From TASVideos :

    RS Seed formula (open)
    Let d be:

    - the number of days after Dec 31, 1900, if the year is 1999 or earlier
    - the number of days after Dec 31, 1999, if the year is 2000
    - the number of days after Dec 31, 2000, if the year is 2001 or later

    Let h be the number of hours after midnight that day. Let th be the tens digit and uh be the ones digit.
    Let m be the number of minutes after the hour. Let tm be the tens digit and um be the ones digit.

    Calculate v = 1440d + 960th + 60uh + 16tm + um. Let x=floor(v/65536) and y=v mod 65536. Convert x,y to hexadecimal.

    Then the seed is:

    0x0000????

    where ????= x xor y.

    Ex.
    2011 Feb 6 14:16:18

    Number of days after Dec 31, 2000: d=365*10+2+31+6=3689
    h=14, th=1, uh=4
    m=16, tm=1, um=6
    Seconds does not matter.

    v=1440*3689 + 960*1 + 60*4 + 16*1 + 1*6 = 5313382
    x=floor(5313382/65536) = 81 = 0x51
    y=5313382 mod 65536 = 4966 = 0x1366

    x xor y = 0x51^0x1366 = 0x1337

    Therefore the initial seed is 0x00001337.
  4. shiny finder

    shiny finder I will travel across the land, searching far and wide...
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    Could you post a screenshot of your main window? The "hit" spread shows up as frame 2 in 9.96.6 alpha 3 (windows 7) with Method H-4, but I can't seem to find the spread that you actually got.
  5. Zetsu

    Zetsu

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    I figured it out this morning after 3 days. The RNG advances more than I thought it did. Thanks for checking for me as well!

    For your trouble, if there's any Pokémon that match this Method H1 spread on FRLG and you'd like them in any Ball or Move Tutor moves, it's on me. :)

    ESV 1 A777C735 !!! Adamant 1 31 31 31 17 31 31 Dark 59 F M F F
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  6. Mega Metal

    Mega Metal

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    I'm trying to follow bearsfan's video guides and Smogon's on-site guides and I'm wondering if the method for legendary Pokémon is the same for wild Pokémon? There doesn't seem to be guides for non-shiny, IV RNGed wild Pokémon and that's what I'm focusing on for my current project/4th gen guinea pig.
  7. Luxpluff91

    Luxpluff91

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    The overall process is the same, just make sure you use Method J/K Stationary Pokémon in RNG Reporter. Other than that, it's the same as a wild capture: hit the seed and advance frames the same way. (It's actually easier since you don't have to bother with Encounter Slots/Sweet Scent for stationaries)
    Mega Metal likes this.
  8. Unknown Warrior

    Unknown Warrior

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    What point can you really start RNG'ing in XD? Until you get Vaporeon memo?
  9. Skymin_Flower

    Skymin_Flower It's Seed Flare time.

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    Vaporeon memo is fastest (in the early game) but not required. If you have Dolphin running on debug mode (i.e. you can see the current PRNG state) then you can RNG whenever you want really.
  10. Unknown Warrior

    Unknown Warrior

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    I'm studying XD RNG but I feel I'm missing a few steps...
    Used tools:

    • xdseedcheck.py
    • RNG Reporter & Researcher
    • Dolphin developer mode
    • Pokémon XD (PAL version) ROM

    So, apparently from amab's guide on Reddit, if an enemy has 2 shadow Pokémon you need to generate the first one to RNG the second one. The previously faced (non-shadow Pokémon) also play a role. I look for a good seed in Calculate PID from IVs. Then I input whatever data of the non-shadows in the python tool. Here's where I'm lost. So it generates a list of all frames it must adhere to to get your preferred seed (alternating even/odds, +7/+12 for 1st/2nd shadow, at least 7 inbetween generated mons).

    1. How do you know if a seed you picked matches? I tried one seed and it didn't say match, how do I find seeds that do match? Just randomly plug in found seeds in the python tool and hope for the best?
    2. How does the generated list in the python tool work? Is it basically relative to the target frame found in RNG reporter?
    3. Multiple mentions are made of XDRNGR in Researcher, how does this feature in overall to the seed selection? He was very vague on this.
    4. His guide mentions Butterfree is preceded by 1) Serious female, 2) Hardy male, 3) Docile female. But in his example he writes down 0,6,12 respectively in nature lock which is the reverse order. Does nature lock order not matter? Reverse order it seems.

    Is there also anyone who has ever made a video guide or an alternative guide on the process? The only youtube video I can find is Kaphotics RNG'ing the Togepi and the only written guide is either amab's or Ginjaru's japanese one (but his is on live and makes use of japanese tools so I'd rather not use those).
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  11. Skymin_Flower

    Skymin_Flower It's Seed Flare time.

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    Well firstly Ginzaru's apps / guide are amazing, they take out all of the guesswork in XD RNG. Didn't someone translate them somewhere? If not then don't worry about it.

    1. The seed will only show a match if your spread is +7 frames from the naturelock (if there are no other shadows) or +12 frames from the naturelock (if there is another shadow Pokemon already generated). So for example, for Butterfree, the python script will only show you a match if the seed you put in is EXACTLY 12 frames after a Hardy Female spread, because that is the last non-shadow Pokemon to generate. So to find seeds that do match, yes, you just have to keep searching (and yes it takes ages and yes you are very unlikely to get a flawless spread, especially if there are 3+ non-shadow Pokemon).

    2. The script will tell you what frame the naturelock is on. I am not sure exactly what numbers he uses in that list but it really doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is that if there are two frames shown on the script, for example 350 and 365, then the real frames on RNG Reporter and in-game will also be 15 frames apart. If you find a match though, you have to check manually that it will actually work (check the pattern, at least 7 between spreads, alternating odd / even etc), because the script can output false positives (found that out the other day).

    3. You don't need XDRNGR for selecting a seed and I don't know why he mentions it either.

    4. No other videos that I know of which is unfortunate.
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  12. Skymin_Flower

    Skymin_Flower It's Seed Flare time.

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    Sorry for the double post but I have a question of my own. In Mr. Ginzaru's guide to XD RNG, there are 2 "frame offsets". These are : "arbitrary frame consumption number" (任意消費数) and "forced frame consumption number" (強制消費数). Together, they add up to the frame offset shown on RNG Reporter, called the "total consumption number" (合計消費数). It doesn't affect RNG'ing at all, but I am just curious if anyone has any idea what these things are?

    Also XD Pokemon's abilities are not calculated using the PID, but another value. Anyone know what this may be? Probably not important but still interesting to know
  13. Liepard

    Liepard

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    Hi, I'd like to get some help with my RNG attempts for 4th generation, as I've been trying on and off for months but for some reason I've been unable to ever hit my delay. I THINK I'm following all of the steps correctly as I understand the basic concepts both from practicing with White/White 2 first and doing lots of research but for some reason, no matter what I try, for the life of me I haven't been able to get this to work. Large post ahead so I'm going to hid it to avoid making people have to scroll past it for other things.
    Show Hide
    To answer the questions on the first post, I'm trying to RNG abuse the Zapdos at the Power Plant on my copy of Soulsilver using a 2DS. I've been trying to hit the delay "912" and I haven't been able to get to the point where I needed to hit a frame so I don't have one of those. I'm not sure exactly what the delay of my seed is because as mentioned further on, my computer crashed before I could save eveything and RNG reporter isn't letting me find the exact one I used. And also to get this out of the way, I can't simply get the pokemon I'm looking for in the 5th Gen unfortunately since I'm trying to use this as practice for an eventual reset of my HG game to catch competitive versions of some of the legends.
    In my most recent attempt, I started out by doing calibration following the Bearfan video and syncing my game to an external clock, soft resetting from in game on Mt. Silver and mashing the A button to load it up as fast as possible. I caught 13 pokemon and plugged in their stats to get a range of 510-490, all even and got exactly 24 for the seconds every time except for once, when I got 25. I stopped there because my delays seem fairly consistent, so I decided to test them out. Remembering my experiences from 5th Gen, I picked the delay I got the most (498), plugged it into EonTimer and went to test it out on Zapdos.
    My results at first were all really good; according to the Irwin calls I was getting results very close to my goal, only being off from around 6, although I got a few crazy results.
    Following the advice on the guide, I plugged in the highest value I got (my computer crashed later on before I could record any of these exact numbers down so I apologize for the inconvenience) and had it update. Afterwards, I started hitting extremely wild delays not even close to what I was hitting before. I gave up for the time being.
    Later, I returned and decided to calibrate some more to see if maybe I just didn't narrow down my starting delay enough. Things got weirder after that. My delays were somewhat in the same range, getting between 487-503, but this time (and I was doing it exactly the same way) always getting a seconds of 14 (and one 15.) Also, almost all of my delays were odd this time (although there were a few evens, which was confusing for me; I thought the delays could only change with a Game boy cart being inserted into a DS?) I have yet to attempt hitting the delay with these new times because I am so confused, although I'd be willing to try should it to be necessary.
    My main questions aside from wanting to know if I'm doing anything wrong in general are this:
    1. Which delays/seconds should I be using, the first or second set? And the Bearfan video said to calibrate until you had a range of 10 but I've been getting a much bigger range, am I not narrowing it down enough? How would I do such? Do I need to calibrate more?
    2. Could it be that my use of a 3DS is causing the weirdness with the delays? I only opted to use it because my DS is usable but very damaged it's rather inconvenient to do so. I have access to my brother's DS if it would really make all the difference.
    3. How necessary is it that you meet the time on EonTimer by the "mili second"? Is it maybe that I'm just hitting it slightly off the wrong time? And why would adding the second delay in and updating it (which should be making it more accurate) make me hit such wild delays?
  14. shiny finder

    shiny finder I will travel across the land, searching far and wide...
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    1. Just taking the median of your two ranges, the delay only changed by 5, which is well within human error. So either set could work. Honestly, I would just use the standard calibration values (calibrated delay of 490 and calibrated seconds of 14) and skip the calibration process. Your timing may be slightly different any given day, so you'll just end up calibrating again when you go for your target. When you do try for your target (i.e. a seed you find in the Time Finder), use Irwin calls to check where you are, then update the timer accordingly. You mentioned that you were +/-6 from your target, which is as good as you're going to get with the timer. Beyond that, you just have to keep trying until you hit your target.

    2. Possibly, but it could just be a false positive as well. I don't recall that ever being an issue with the 3/2DS. It seems to be mostly consistent anyway (if it is actually changing), so I wouldn't worry about it. As a side note, you can also change the delays by changing the year in your DS; so the GBA cart isn't the only method.

    3. Unfortunately, you need to be accurate to a fraction of a second (1/60 or 1/30, I don't quite remember at the moment), so you need to match the EonTimer. A very slight variation in your timing will change your delay. As for the wild change, I'm not really sure to be honest. Maybe you're not where you think you are, or maybe something just went wrong with the timer and it updated wrong. If you're about +/- 10 from your target delay, don't bother updating the timer. That's within human error. Sometimes I just reset the timer to the calibrated values, then input my most recent delay to update it (rather than updating the timer with a delay, then updating it again with another one later on). If it it something weird with the timer, that may help.
  15. mccalas

    mccalas

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    Helo, all. New here, so please forgive 1st post. But I am in DIRE need of help. Not with rng mechanics (i research, read, experiment and lurk...), but with a more philosophical question.

    I am running from Gen III - V with the same OT, TID, and SID. For some reason I'm obsessive as heck and love RNGing more than playing most games, but I have a HUGE (to me) dilemma. I can RNG my TID/SID to have a 6 IV shiny MODEST/TIMID or MODEST/CALM. But i cannot decide which.

    I like the perfect shiny Modest/Timid better, but all other natures have better shiny spreads on the Modest/Calm TID/SID combo. And i could still have my shiny perfect Modest mew. But that would lock me out of really good shiny Adamant and Jolly spreads. But who really needs 3-4 IVs in those? Isn't Atk and Spe good enough? No? Then maybe I should go with the Modest/Calm....

    I'm genuinely freaked out by this dilemma. And i have nowhere else to turn, so i beg you - which do I choose?!?

    Would you take Shiny, 6-IV Modest/Timid and have perfect shiny IVs for Gen 3 and Gen 4 Legendaries? OR take Modest/Calm (nothing i really care for calls for calm nature) and miss out on perfect Timid, but have better spreads for everything else (adamant, hasty, jolly, naive, etc.)? And why?

    This may seem silly or not matter to anyone, but I can't continue playing until i solve this conundrum. So, please, chime in and let me know your opinion. And, again, sorry for the long [first] post.
  16. Luxpluff91

    Luxpluff91

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    Welcome to Smogon!

    Personally, whenever I RNG my ID/SID combo, I'm only planning to catch shinies with the perfect spreads it offers. For instance, I'd only use the Modest/Timid combo for Modest/Timid 31/31/31/31/31/31 shinies; if I wanted to catch, say, an Adamant Pokémon with that same combo, I'd give up on shininess and go for 31/31/31/x/31/31.

    Similarly, if I were to choose the Modest/Calm 31/31/31/31/31/31 spread, the only shinies I'd go for would be either Calm or Modest with 31/31/31/31/31/31 IVs.

    (Exceptions for this "rule" would be chained shinies in DPPt, since those have more spreads available to them; Shiny Gyarados in HGSS, which works essentially as a chained shiny; and Cute Charm ID/SID combos, which give more flexibility for shiny spreads but sadly have very limited use for legendaries)

    If you plan on trading those here, I'm afraid that imperfect Pokémon will draw very little attention despite of shininess; so if you were to get a shiny Adamant x/31/x/x/x/31 Pokémon using either of the combos you're considering, it would almost certainly have no trade value here.

    Ultimately, though, this is all my view on the matter. If you feel more comfortable with the flexibility yielded by the Modest/Calm combo and will settle for imperfect shiny spreads, then most certainly go for it. :)

    PS: in Gen V, you are able to catch shiny Pokémon with a lot of different spreads and Natures basically regardless of your ID/SID combo; it is a lot more flexible than Gen IV.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
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  17. LegoFigure11

    LegoFigure11 :thinking:
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    Is it possible for a BW1 cart's Timer0 values to just change? And I don't mean alternate, I mean straight up change. Having taken a break from RNGing on my White cart for a while, I recently returned to do an RNG request for someone, but I can't hit my seed no matter what I do. I'm using the same DS I always have, same MAC address, etc. and I've tested all the buttons, so it's not keypresses either. The seeds that I'm hitting don't show up in the adjacents tab either, so the only thing I can think of is that both of my Timer0s have changed, all while the cart has been sitting in its case, gathering dust. Has this ever happened to anyone else/what should I do about it?

    E: Just realised I posted this in the 'Most Generation Help thread' instead of the 'Gen V Help thread' in case someone wants to move it. Or don't. I don't mind either way.
  18. Buckert

    Buckert Obsessive Collecting Disorder

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    Well I RNG abused a Pokémon on Black yesterday after a few months and I had no trouble whatsoever. Are you sure you have all the information correct? ID/SID, roamer, stuff like that? If so, you could try to recalibrate and see what you get.
  19. LegoFigure11

    LegoFigure11 :thinking:
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    Yeah, everything else is normal - same save file (so same ID/SID), no roamer (although this didn't affect the seed that you're on, only your starting frame, right?), same RNGReporter profile (i keep them all backed up because RNGReporter likes to forget then sometimes). Same everything.
    I tried recalibrating a couple of times but got no results, but this has happened to me before so I'm just gonna put it down to bad luck and try recalibrating a few more times, when i have more time. Thanks for the help :)
  20. mccalas

    mccalas

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    Thanks for the reply! And, yeah, I'm not really looking to trade. My goal is to have the most complete pokedex possible with every pokemon having the same OT/TID/SID. So, when it comes to Legendaries (Rayquaza comes to mind), I'll catch a shiny one and a flawless one seperately, I guess... I just wish there was a way to get more spreads on a single TID/SID combo in Gen III and Gen IV, especially with Legendaries exclusive to these generations. Oh, well.

    But somehow your advice eased my mind a bit.
  21. ash1236

    ash1236

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    So I'm trying out 3rd gen RNG but I'm having issues.
    Show Hide
    Emerald.PNG

    I found a TID/SID combo that makes that jolly spread shiny but when I put it in method 1, and select those IVs I don't get any results. If I leave IVs blank I got that. Am I missing something or do I just need to try another TID?
  22. shiny finder

    shiny finder I will travel across the land, searching far and wide...
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    The result in the IV to PID tool shows up for the seed 900B2735, not for a seed of 0 (at least not in the first 100K frames). I'd re-find another TID/SID, but this time find the frame you want to be shiny and RNG your IDs to be from that frame (in short: http://www.smogon.com/ingame/rng/rs_nonbredrng).

    You may be able to still use the result in the IV to PID tool with a live battery...maybe? But I'm really not familiar with that method.
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  23. ash1236

    ash1236

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    So I just tried searching for a Jolly 31/31/31/xx/31/31 and got no results in the first 500000000 and rng reporter breaks when I up the max results to 1000000000.
    Show Hide
    11..PNG

    Do I need a better toaster? xD

    Edit: Just tried it with 3rd gen time finder and that gave me no results as well.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
  24. shiny finder

    shiny finder I will travel across the land, searching far and wide...
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    Couldn't hurt I guess :P But it crashes if you try to generate a really high frame (or a ton of them at one time). So it might not crash if you set the starting frame to 500000001 and decrease the max results (i.e. break up the range). You could also try a different tool such as PokeRNG (described here) but it really only works for Method 1 in Emerald. Some of the links might be dead in that post too lol, I don't remember. You still need the RNG Reporter, but an external frame finder would speed things up.

    Either way, the earliest one occurs on frame 658467364 (Jolly, 31/31/31/0/31/31), so that's really not feasible if you aren't using an emulator.
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  25. ash1236

    ash1236

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    Breaking it up worked thanks! And I am doing emerald + Method 1 on emulator xD, so i'll try out that tool.

    Edit: I need to wait 3 weeks just for the first Jolly flawless spread??!!?!
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
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