SM OU M-Gardevoir Sand Balance (1612 ELO ATM)

[Meliodafu7]

M-Gardevoir Sand Balance​

INTRODUCTION

Hey guys! I've been playing Pokémon since the last year, being this year when I started to play competitively and now, with M-Gardevoir being available, I decided build this team with her around my favourite playstyle: Sand Balance!. Sand isn't a common playstyle right now in the ladder, however, I think it could be a threat to a number of teams. Any feedback and constructive criticism is really appreciated. Let's go ahead!

Teambuilding Process

The starting core of the team. Classic core since last gen, with M-Gardevoir putting pressure on bulkier teams, and Excadrill in sand against faster builds. I decided to run Hippowdon over Tyranitar as my sand setter because the former has access to reliable recovery and its great ability to handle a bunch of physical threats such as M-Loppuny, Landorus-T and Zygarde.

The starting core gets destroyed by threats like M-Charizard Y, Volcarona, Ash-Greninja and Rain. To fix this issue I decided to add Mantine. It can handle a lot of special attackers, improves my matchup against rain, only fearing M-Swampert's Stone Edge and Tapu Koko's Thunder/Thunderbolt, both of them can be handled by the rest of the team, and has really good defensive sinergy with the other members. Also, It gives to my team very useful Defog support, which lets me run SD Excadrill.

Next Pokémon added is Ash-Greninja. The main reason to include it is to improve my matchup against faster comps and also, It gives me another cleaner if Excadrill goes down early in the match. It shares many checks with M-Gardevoir, such as AV Magearna, Ferrothorn, Chansey and others, both being able to wear down those mutual checks. It enjoys M-Gardevoir's ability to check Keldeo and break through Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Amoonguss and M-Venusaur, giving it an easier time to transform. In return, Ash-Greninja beats Heatran, defensive Celesteela, Skarmory, Jirachi, and Gengar. Also, It helps Excadrill destroying bulky Ground-Types bar the uncommon Gastrodon, Slowbro and Rotom-W, while, Excadrill can knock out Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, and Magearna.

Last slot, I decided to run SD Fightinium Z Kartana. It gives me another wallbreaker alongside M-Gardevoir to deal with bulkier teams, mainly with stall. I use it mainly as early game wallbreaker, wearing down mutual checks with Excadrill like Landorus-T, Skarmory, Celesteela and M-Scizor, also, it breaks bulky Water-type helping Excadrill and Ash-Greninja. Kartana really enjoys team support against faster builds and also, with its two weaknesses. Finally, if faster threats are out of play, this Pokémon can sweep on its own with Swords Dance, All-out Pummeling and Beast Boost.

DETAILED_ANALYSIS

Gardevoir-Mega (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast

The main wallbreaker of my team. I decided run M-Gardevoir because the great sinergy between it with Excadrill and Ash-Greninja, being able to open holes in the rival team to both of them to clean. EV spread, Nature and ability are pretty standar, being able to speed tie with other 100s such as M-Medicham, and both M-Charizard, while outspeeding threats such as Landorus-T, Tapu Lele and Zygarde. Taunt to deal with many walls shutting down their status moves, Hyper Voice and Psyshock as STAB moves and Focus Blast to pressure Steel-Types.

Excadrill (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

The main sweeper of my team and my sand abuser. With this LO SD set, Excadrill is able to muscle its way through some otherwise, goods check, such as Ferrothorn, Tangrowth and M-Scizor. Classic EV spread with a Jolly nature, letting it outspeed threats such as Timid Heatran, Modest Tapu Lele, Jolly Mamoswine as well as 100s with neutral nature outside of sand, while outspeeding the entire unboosted metagame in sand, only speed-tying with opposing Excadrill. Moveset with Swords Dance to boost its Attack stat to sky-high levels, while Earthquake and Iron Head as STAB moves, and Rock Slide to hit Skarmory and Celesteela at least for neutral damage.

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind

My sand setter as well as my physical wall. Hippowdon is a key member of this team being able to set up sand as well Stealth Rock and be a massive check to most fearing physical attackers in the tier like Landorus-T, Zygarde, Tyranitar and Mega Loppuny. EV spread gives Hippowdon good mixed bulk, being able to check survive strong moves such as +2 Adamant Landorus-T's Earthquake, while avoiding the 2HKO from LO Thundurus's HP Ice, among others, while Leftovers provides passive recovery. Moveset pretty standar with Slack Off as recovery, Earthquake to avoid being shut down by Taunt, Stealth Rock to pressure rival's switch-ins and Whirlwind to phaze out setup sweepers such as Landorus-T and Zygarde.

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 196 Def / 72 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Scald
- Toxic
- Defog

My specially defensive wall, Water resist and Ground immunity. Mantine is a great mon to this team with its great bulk and utility. It check threats which otherwise destroy this team like M-Charizard Y, Ash-Greninja and Volcarona. EV spread ensures that Ash-Greninja's Dark Pulse is a 3HKO without rocks up, while the rest is given to Defense to take physical hits better. As moves, Roost is mandatory to stay healthy through the match, Scald to give it some offensive presence as well as for its nifty burn chance, Toxic is here to cripple Switch-ins like Tangrowth, Latios and Rotom-W, while Defog gets rid of the hazards to support the team.

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Other cleaner and a sort of "wallbreaker" for this team. Ash-Greninja is great to wear down rival's team while It's waiting to net a KO and transform to wreak havoc, as well the other sinergy benefits it offers to this team. Pretty standar set in every way, with maximum Speed and Special Attack and Choice Specs to further boost its offensive capabilities. As moves, Hydro Pump and Dark Pulse as STAB moves, Water Shuriken is a good priority move to pick off weakened threats and Ice Beam to hit Tangrowth and another Grass-Types hard, which if not carrying this move, walls Ash-Greninja to no end.

Kartana @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword

Other wallbreaker for this team. Kartana is here to deal with most bulky Water-Type, as well luring in threats such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Celesteela and Mega Scizor, and weakening them for other team members to take advantage. Standar set with Max Speed and Attack with a Jolly Nature to take advantage of its good speed tier. The moveset with Swords Dance helps it breaking through bulkier builds, Leaf Blade and Smart Strike as STAB moves, while Sacred Sword coupled with Fightinium Z gives it a one-time nuke to lure in common checks and blows them back with a +2 All-Out Pummeling.

Threatlist

This thing is a massive pain to deal, especially if is the Focus Sash set, because it can take out M-Gardevoir, as well as Kartana with Reversal. Trying to play around this guy is put effort in keeping rocks up and pressure their defogger. If It's a stall matchup, I usually let Kartana gets trapped to break its Sash and then proceed to stallbreak with M-Gardevoir. However, in all the ladder time, this mon was and is the biggest pain ever to deal with.

Usually this thing isn't a problem if Mantine still sticks around, however, if it goes down early, this thing sweeps. This is further increased when It Traces Sand Rush. However, It need to hit with Focus Blast against Excadrill. Also, Hippowdon can live a Psychic if at 60% health and Hit back with Earthquake, putting into Water Shuriken's range, however I'm done if Psychic Terrain is up.

With Mantine, I have this mons very well covered, however, if Mantine goes down, or is Trick-ed with a Choice item, this two mons put a lot of pressure against my team. While M-Charizard Y removes sand with sun, can break nearly anything, Volcarona can sweep this team not that hard. However, if I manage to set up sand again, I can revenge kill both with Excadrill, also, if I keep Rocks in the field, Ash-Greninja's Hydro Pump kills Zard Y even in sun after rocks. Finally, M-Gardevoir can tank a Fire Blast from Volcarona at +1 from full and hit back with Psyshock, putting it into Water Shuriken's range.

Rain is a massive threat to this team. I have Mantine to deal with Pelipper and M-Swampert, however, if the latter is carrying Stone Edge, Mantine becomes a pretty shaky check. Tapu Koko can be dealt with Hippowdon, but if Koko carries Grass Knot, It's a cleanly 2HKO from any Koko set. However, if M-Swampert is carrying Stone Edge and not Superpower, Kartana can revenge kill it, It tank any hit and destroy M-Swampert with Leaf Blade. Kingdra could be dealt with M-Gardevoir if this decides to spam Surf or Scald, M-Gardevoir can tank both moves in rain from full and OHKO with Hyper Voice, but if Kingdra hits with Hydro Pump, is nearly 95% OHKO in rain.

Importable

Gardevoir-Mega (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast

Excadrill (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Hippowdon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Kartana @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 196 Def / 72 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Scald
- Toxic
- Defog

Proof of Peak

FINAL_THOUGHTS

I'm pretty happy with this team, it fits my playstyle really well and I think It has a decent matchup against most archetypes. Maybe Webs team could be really problematic if Smeargle reflects Taunt with Magic Coat or something like that. Let me know any feedback You could have in order to improve this team and make it more solid. Thanks in advance! Cheers!

 

[weirdo faye]

hiyer, i really like your team cuz it has nice offensive presence n thats the style i like most tho i have some things u might find worth noting

any team that uses m-gard needs extremely strong counterplay against the sg/tr magerna to prevent getting swept by it. u have drill to rk it in sand but ur primary switchin hippo more than 50% from ice beam so u cant let it get weakened at all. *gard isnt a sg mag answer cuz some builds will run flash cannon/bolt/beam*

also, ur answer to specs/stallbreaker lele doesnt exist. mantine gets 2hkoed w/ sr up. also, if ur opp goes straight for the psyshock *u have a psychic immunity in gren so not as likely*, ur gna lose ur mantine and just be picking a fodder each time lele comes in

sorry i havnt had time to think of anything to change, just thot those 2 things i mentioned r worth noting

 

[Watermelon5Gum]

From how much pressure is put unto Mantine(Tapu Lele non Psyshock, Charizard-Y, Volcarona, Ash-Greninja, pretty much any hard hitting Special Attacker with it being the main Special Wall) I suggest putting on something like Tyranitar on this team. It may seem redundant seeing as how you have Hippowdown as a sand setter but hear me out: replacing your wall breaking Kartana with Banded Tyranitar still allows a wall breaker and a switch in for Tapu Lele's psychic spam, Charizard-Y(if it doesnt have or click focus blast), Volcarona if it is Choiced into fire move and not the QD set, and breaks the same things Kartana can, albeit no SD Z Move to one shot them, but still very hard damage. Ice Beam+Fire Blast allow TTar to break M-Scizor and other Steels resistant to Stone Edge. Ice beam is for Zygarde, Garchomp, and Landorus-T. Last move can be either Crunch or Pursuit. In my opinion, Pursuit in order to KO Lele, Latis, and

I do like the Kartana still though but putting so much on the single Mantine is a little too rough for the manta ray :(

Banded Tyranitar Calcs:
4- SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Landorus-Therian: 264-312 (69.1 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4- SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Scizor-Mega: 244-288 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 156-184 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 268-316 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4- SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 208-248 (59 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[paoisd]

i just want to say I LOVE THIS TEAM SO MUCH. everything about this team i love. the color scheme looks nice ( i know that doesnt have to do with anything) i love the mix of fatness and offense, but my one problem is that i dont think kartana is very necessary but i dont know what you should put in for it. also how did you get those pictures on the top of the thread?

 

[Meliodafu7]

Hey guys! Im pretty glad for your suggestions! Sorry for the late answers, but yersterday I was busy af, so now I'll anwser those:

From how much pressure is put unto Mantine(Tapu Lele non Psyshock, Charizard-Y, Volcarona, Ash-Greninja, pretty much any hard hitting Special Attacker with it being the main Special Wall) I suggest putting on something like Tyranitar on this team. It may seem redundant seeing as how you have Hippowdown as a sand setter but hear me out: replacing your wall breaking Kartana with Banded Tyranitar still allows a wall breaker and a switch in for Tapu Lele's psychic spam, Charizard-Y(if it doesnt have or click focus blast), Volcarona if it is Choiced into fire move and not the QD set, and breaks the same things Kartana can, albeit no SD Z Move to one shot them, but still very hard damage. Ice Beam+Fire Blast allow TTar to break M-Scizor and other Steels resistant to Stone Edge. Ice beam is for Zygarde, Garchomp, and Landorus-T. Last move can be either Crunch or Pursuit. In my opinion, Pursuit in order to KO Lele, Latis, and

I do like the Kartana still though but putting so much on the single Mantine is a little too rough for the manta ray :(

Banded Tyranitar Calcs:
4- SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Landorus-Therian: 264-312 (69.1 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4- SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Scizor-Mega: 244-288 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 156-184 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 268-316 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4- SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 208-248 (59 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hey dude! Thanks you a lot for the rate and yeah,You're pretty right saying Mantine could get overwhelmed by pressure and having another check to that threats makes a lot of sense to me; Band Tyranitar seems a really solid choice in this team, and with that two special moves to lure in common checks would be a pretty interesting mon to add. I'd have to test it out and see how the team works. I like the Pursuit idea to remove from play Choice-locked Lele and another threats, however, I would like run a Z-move user in this team with that breaking potential, anyway, I'll try it and see how its going :) Thanks you buddy :)

i just want to say I LOVE THIS TEAM SO MUCH. everything about this team i love. the color scheme looks nice ( i know that doesnt have to do with anything) i love the mix of fatness and offense, but my one problem is that i dont think kartana is very necessary but i dont know what you should put in for it. also how did you get those pictures on the top of the thread?

Hey buddy! I'm pretty glad you like my team, and yeah, the last mon (Kartana) was a rough one to choice and add, I needed a Z-move user and another breaker to work on, but, this slot is the most variable a flexible one, so now I have to test other options and then see how team Works. About the pictures on the top, they are sprites from Pokémon Shuffle, and I like them a lot to be honest haha. I'll give you the website where get those sprites. Thanks for your words tho :)

Sprites Link

https://www.pkparaiso.com/shuffle/sprites.php

 

[paoisd]

Hey guys! Im pretty glad for your suggestions! Sorry for the late answers, but yersterday I was busy af, so now I'll anwser those:



Hey dude! Thanks you a lot for the rate and yeah,You're pretty right saying Mantine could get overwhelmed by pressure and having another check to that threats makes a lot of sense to me; Band Tyranitar seems a really solid choice in this team, and with that two special moves to lure in common checks would be a pretty interesting mon to add. I'd have to test it out and see how the team works. I like the Pursuit idea to remove from play Choice-locked Lele and another threats, however, I would like run a Z-move user in this team with that breaking potential, anyway, I'll try it and see how its going :) Thanks you buddy :)



Hey buddy! I'm pretty glad you like my team, and yeah, the last mon (Kartana) was a rough one to choice and add, I needed a Z-move user and another breaker to work on, but, this slot is the most variable a flexible one, so now I have to test other options and then see how team Works. About the pictures on the top, they are sprites from Pokémon Shuffle, and I like them a lot to be honest haha. I'll give you the website where get those sprites. Thanks for your words tho :)

Sprites Link

https://www.pkparaiso.com/shuffle/sprites.php

you dont need a z move user. also for what the guy said before i think you shouldnt change hippowdon but change kartana for someone. also thanks for the sprites

 

[paoisd]

you dont need a z move user. also for what the guy said before i think you shouldnt change hippowdon but change kartana for someone. also thanks for the sprites

Hey guys! Im pretty glad for your suggestions! Sorry for the late answers, but yersterday I was busy af, so now I'll anwser those:



Hey dude! Thanks you a lot for the rate and yeah,You're pretty right saying Mantine could get overwhelmed by pressure and having another check to that threats makes a lot of sense to me; Band Tyranitar seems a really solid choice in this team, and with that two special moves to lure in common checks would be a pretty interesting mon to add. I'd have to test it out and see how the team works. I like the Pursuit idea to remove from play Choice-locked Lele and another threats, however, I would like run a Z-move user in this team with that breaking potential, anyway, I'll try it and see how its going :) Thanks you buddy :)



Hey buddy! I'm pretty glad you like my team, and yeah, the last mon (Kartana) was a rough one to choice and add, I needed a Z-move user and another breaker to work on, but, this slot is the most variable a flexible one, so now I have to test other options and then see how team Works. About the pictures on the top, they are sprites from Pokémon Shuffle, and I like them a lot to be honest haha. I'll give you the website where get those sprites. Thanks for your words tho :)

Sprites Link

https://www.pkparaiso.com/shuffle/sprites.php

also how did you get the kartana sprites? I couldn't find celesteela

 

[Meliodafu7]

Bump!

 

[RatchetDaddyK]

this team looks really good, i feel like sand exca is often overlooked because of rain's new popularity, but its still veryyy good. besides the things that other people have already pointed out, serperior (offensive- mainly scarf, outspeeding gren) does a number to this team. obviously, you have sand excadrill to come in and rk after serp takes a few rocks switches, but kartana being the only decent switch in to leaf storm puts a lot of pressure on the other guys. mantine is 2hko'd after rocks if switching in, and cant do much in return besides toxic or chip with scald for exca. im not really sure what to do with it as you know the team better than me of course, but just something to watch out for:)

 

[Meliodafu7]

this team looks really good, i feel like sand exca is often overlooked because of rain's new popularity, but its still veryyy good. besides the things that other people have already pointed out, serperior (offensive- mainly scarf, outspeeding gren) does a number to this team. obviously, you have sand excadrill to come in and rk after serp takes a few rocks switches, but kartana being the only decent switch in to leaf storm puts a lot of pressure on the other guys. mantine is 2hko'd after rocks if switching in, and cant do much in return besides toxic or chip with scald for exca. im not really sure what to do with it as you know the team better than me of course, but just something to watch out for:)

Hey buddy! Thanks for the rate :) And yeah, I realized that Grass-Type in general are very hard to deal with. In this vein, Bulu and Serperior are a major threat because They almost have a heavy hit guaranteed due the lack of good switch-ins. I was thinking replace Kartana (which is underperforming last battles I had :( ) for a Fire-Type to deal with Steel and Grass-Types, but the only one who comes to mind is M-Charizard Y, and that means take away Gardevoir and remake the team, anyway, thanks for the suggestion dude :)

 

[quest1250]

Try a Heatran lure with Grassium Z Solar Beam and Hidden Power Ice. This counters grasses, surprises fat waters (e.g. Rotom-W, which this team struggles with) and catches big damage on dragons like Zygarde on the switch. Magma Storm and Earth Power standard for trapping/opposing fires and rocks, etc.

 

[Gross Sweep]

Hey PrideMustang really cool team incorporating M-Gardevoir and Sand. I don’t know if you remember this, but I believe you initially asked me about the subject before M-Gardevoir was even released, so I really wanted our interaction to come full circle with a rate. Now While I like the team there are a few issues I see such as an inability to beating Fat Grasses, Break Stall, and effectively handle opposing Ash Greninja. With my rate I plan on fixing these issues, among others, to get this team functioning at an efficient level while strongly maintaining the original goal of utilizing M-Gardevoir + Sand.


Major Changes:

>

The team is in desperate need of a solid breaker who can break through stall fairly well, beat Grass types (if it can lure them it would be even better), and hit extremely hard right off the bat if need be – And Landorus-T fills this team need. Another reasoning that came into this decision is that while Kartana is a solid mon that does what it does fairly well, Landorus-T is just great in the current meta that allows a lot of role compression which is really helpful on a build like Sand. The Move Set I’m suggesting is Swords Dance / Earthquake / Smack Down / Fly with the EVs: 252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 Def Adamant nature and the item Flyinium Z. Swords Dance gives you breaking potential, Earthquake is a strong stab, Smack down lets you deal with annoyances like Skarmory and Celesteela, and Z-Fly is another stab that catches a lot of people who use something like a bulky grass as their only way of beating Landorus-T.

>

So I agree that the team needs a water resist, but on another note the team needs a way to check opposing Ash Greninja without a flinch ruining you, a solid ground resist that doesn’t just fall over vs Zygarde, and a check that makes switching into general special threats like AV Magearna easier - which are the main reasons for me suggesting Tangrowth > Mantine. The Move Set I’m suggesting is Giga Drain / Knock Off / Earthquake / HP Ice with the EVs: 248 Hp / 8 Def / 252 SpDef Sassy nature, ability Regenerator, and the item Assault Vest. Giga Drain is a solid stab, Earthquake is a stong lure to steels who otherwise limit Tangrowth from coming in comfortably, Knock Off is great utility crippling switch ins, and HP Ice is a solid move to nail Ground types like Landorus-T and Zygarde who can trouble Sand.

>

So at this point we’ve weakened the match up vs Volcarona and Greninja is still a tough mon to face off versus. The change of Keldeo > Greninja will help with these issues, as well as, provide solid speed control without having to be reliant on sand. The Move set I’m suggesting is Surf / Secret Sword / Icy Wind / Stone Edge Hasty nature, and the item Choice Scarf. Surf and Secret Sword are solid stabs, Icy Wind is nice coverage for mons like Zygarde and Salamence, and Stone Edge enables you to revenge threats like Charizard-Y and Volcarona.


Minor Changes:

With Landorus-T filling the role of SD breaker utilizing a Z move Excadrill is now in the position to either run Life Orb or Air Balloon. I tend to lean towards Life Orb for the instant damage, but Air Balloon is solid. Also I’d suggest Rapid Spin > Swords Dance. With Landorus-T using a Z stone, limited sand turns to take advantage of, and the removal of reliable Defog from Mantine this change will be very beneficial to helping the team function efficiently.

On M-Gardevoir I see the move Focus Blast as a way to hit mons like Tyranitar and Heatran, but with Excadrill, Hippowdon, Keldeo, Landorus-T, and EQ on Tangrowth to handle these threats in varying degrees I feel HP Fire > Focus Blast could be fruitful for the team. This swap lets you lure and eliminate threats like M-Scizor who right now has to be checked by Keldeo or stalled out by Hippowdon – so you have options vs it, but I feel HP Fire will be the most optimal way to handle this move slot.

Review of Changes:

• 
  -> SD Fly
  
• 
  -> AV
  
• 
  -> Scarf
  
• 
  : Swords Dance -> Rapid Spin
• 
  : Focus Blast -> HP Fire

Adding an importable in case you want it (just click on this line)


Anyway, I had a lot of fun rating this since we had discussed the idea behind this team weeks ago in the RMT room. I feel this rate does a good job of keeping your initial core intact, while also helping you deal with a wider array of threats. I hope this rate helps you in some way, and I can’t wait to see what team idea you come up with next. Have a nice day, and if you have any more questions or concerns on the team let me know!

 

[Meliodafu7]

Hey PrideMustang really cool team incorporating M-Gardevoir and Sand. I don’t know if you remember this, but I believe you initially asked me about the subject before M-Gardevoir was even released, so I really wanted our interaction to come full circle with a rate. Now While I like the team there are a few issues I see such as an inability to beating Fat Grasses, Break Stall, and effectively handle opposing Ash Greninja. With my rate I plan on fixing these issues, among others, to get this team functioning at an efficient level while strongly maintaining the original goal of utilizing M-Gardevoir + Sand.


Major Changes:

>

The team is in desperate need of a solid breaker who can break through stall fairly well, beat Grass types (if it can lure them it would be even better), and hit extremely hard right off the bat if need be – And Landorus-T fills this team need. Another reasoning that came into this decision is that while Kartana is a solid mon that does what it does fairly well, Landorus-T is just great in the current meta that allows a lot of role compression which is really helpful on a build like Sand. The Move Set I’m suggesting is Swords Dance / Earthquake / Smack Down / Fly with the EVs: 252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 Def Adamant nature and the item Flyinium Z. Swords Dance gives you breaking potential, Earthquake is a strong stab, Smack down lets you deal with annoyances like Skarmory and Celesteela, and Z-Fly is another stab that catches a lot of people who use something like a bulky grass as their only way of beating Landorus-T.

>

So I agree that the team needs a water resist, but on another note the team needs a way to check opposing Ash Greninja without a flinch ruining you, a solid ground resist that doesn’t just fall over vs Zygarde, and a check that makes switching into general special threats like AV Magearna easier - which are the main reasons for me suggesting Tangrowth > Mantine. The Move Set I’m suggesting is Giga Drain / Knock Off / Earthquake / HP Ice with the EVs: 248 Hp / 8 Def / 252 SpDef Sassy nature, ability Regenerator, and the item Assault Vest. Giga Drain is a solid stab, Earthquake is a stong lure to steels who otherwise limit Tangrowth from coming in comfortably, Knock Off is great utility crippling switch ins, and HP Ice is a solid move to nail Ground types like Landorus-T and Zygarde who can trouble Sand.

>

So at this point we’ve weakened the match up vs Volcarona and Greninja is still a tough mon to face off versus. The change of Keldeo > Greninja will help with these issues, as well as, provide solid speed control without having to be reliant on sand. The Move set I’m suggesting is Surf / Secret Sword / Icy Wind / Stone Edge Hasty nature, and the item Choice Scarf. Surf and Secret Sword are solid stabs, Icy Wind is nice coverage for mons like Zygarde and Salamence, and Stone Edge enables you to revenge threats like Charizard-Y and Volcarona.


Minor Changes:

With Landorus-T filling the role of SD breaker utilizing a Z move Excadrill is now in the position to either run Life Orb or Air Balloon. I tend to lean towards Life Orb for the instant damage, but Air Balloon is solid. Also I’d suggest Rapid Spin > Swords Dance. With Landorus-T using a Z stone, limited sand turns to take advantage of, and the removal of reliable Defog from Mantine this change will be very beneficial to helping the team function efficiently.

On M-Gardevoir I see the move Focus Blast as a way to hit mons like Tyranitar and Heatran, but with Excadrill, Hippowdon, Keldeo, Landorus-T, and EQ on Tangrowth to handle these threats in varying degrees I feel HP Fire > Focus Blast could be fruitful for the team. This swap lets you lure and eliminate threats like M-Scizor who right now has to be checked by Keldeo or stalled out by Hippowdon – so you have options vs it, but I feel HP Fire will be the most optimal way to handle this move slot.

Review of Changes:

• 
  -> SD Fly
  
• 
  -> AV
  
• 
  -> Scarf
  
• 
  : Swords Dance -> Rapid Spin
• 
  : Focus Blast -> HP Fire

Adding an importable in case you want it (just click on this line)


Anyway, I had a lot of fun rating this since we had discussed the idea behind this team weeks ago in the RMT room. I feel this rate does a good job of keeping your initial core intact, while also helping you deal with a wider array of threats. I hope this rate helps you in some way, and I can’t wait to see what team idea you come up with next. Have a nice day, and if you have any more questions or concerns on the team let me know!

Hey Gross Sweep! Yeah, I remember we had discussed the idea behind this team in PS RMT Room :) and I really glad you come here to give a full rate of this squad :)
Respect at your changes:

1.- About Kartana, yeah, I was thinking swap it out for Z-Fly Lando-T to break fat Grass-Type and Stall more easily without worry about Dugtrio suspect this shit again. This change is really helpful and I will implement this for sure.

2.- About Tang, I toyed with a lot in this team, but I almost get destroyed by Zard-Y and Volc every time I faced them, but It was a really good check to Ash-Ninja and other stuff. So, in this change I'm not sure if replacing Mantine will improve my matchup against them, but clearly it improves my matchup against non-Toxic Zygarde and other stuff, so, I would have to test it out to see how does it works.

3.- If I keep Mantine, anyway I could run Keldeo over Ash-Ninja to have a better speed control for the team. About the set, Surf/Icy/Secret/HP Electric, to lure in Pelipper and improve the matchup against rain, this set could be good?

4.- Again, if keeping Mantine, then I can run SD on Exca over Rapid Spin? Having a spinner who losses to Lando-T is sad :(

5.- HP Fire on M-Garde seems really good to lure Scizor and another Steel-type. Should I run WoW to cripple them, or I stick with Taunt to have better stall matchup?

I would be really happy if we can continue with the discussion about this if you can :) Again, thanks you a lot for the great rate and the suggestions, I'm really glad, and for sure I'll come back with another teams for your rate! Have a nice day :)

 

[Gross Sweep]

hey PrideMustang I'm glad you like the team, and I'd be happy to keep a discussion going by responding to all your points.

1). Glad you like SD Fly Landorus, had a feeling reading through the thread you'd be considering that.

2). On Volcarona revenge killing with Keldeo or Excadrill in sand is enough to take that mon on in my opinion. Charizard-y is different as it's a very powerful mon that stops opposing weathers extremely well. Scarf Keldeo can revenge, but I agree that's a really tough way to play vs it. I wouldn't go as far as saying use Mantine as I feel it's a bit to passive for sand and the other benefits of tang are much more needed imo - instead of using Mantine I'd say do something like Rock Slide > Earthquake on Tangrowth to lure Charizard-Y in and eliminate it. I feel this will allow the team to keep momentum, and have an ok lure to Zard-Y which should help ease the match up.

3). If you keep Mantine you can swap over to HP Electric as the need for Stone Edge decreases.

4). If you kept Mantine you can go back to SD, or even Toxic to put checks on a timer. Although I will say Mantine does lose to every Landorus-T besides defensive HP Ice - so if having removal that loses to Landorus-T makes you sad...

5). I'd stick with Taunt here to help with bulkier mons.

 

[Mister57]

Hi PrideMustang,
I really love the idea behind your team. I used the M-Gardevoir~Sand core in ORAS meta and loved it and I feel like it works pretty well even in SM. I suggest you following Gross Sweep's advices. Just to have a look at what the team can be with those changes: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-604715180

 

[weirdo faye]

Hey PrideMustang really cool team incorporating M-Gardevoir and Sand. I don’t know if you remember this, but I believe you initially asked me about the subject before M-Gardevoir was even released, so I really wanted our interaction to come full circle with a rate. Now While I like the team there are a few issues I see such as an inability to beating Fat Grasses, Break Stall, and effectively handle opposing Ash Greninja. With my rate I plan on fixing these issues, among others, to get this team functioning at an efficient level while strongly maintaining the original goal of utilizing M-Gardevoir + Sand.


Major Changes:

>

The team is in desperate need of a solid breaker who can break through stall fairly well, beat Grass types (if it can lure them it would be even better), and hit extremely hard right off the bat if need be – And Landorus-T fills this team need. Another reasoning that came into this decision is that while Kartana is a solid mon that does what it does fairly well, Landorus-T is just great in the current meta that allows a lot of role compression which is really helpful on a build like Sand. The Move Set I’m suggesting is Swords Dance / Earthquake / Smack Down / Fly with the EVs: 252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 Def Adamant nature and the item Flyinium Z. Swords Dance gives you breaking potential, Earthquake is a strong stab, Smack down lets you deal with annoyances like Skarmory and Celesteela, and Z-Fly is another stab that catches a lot of people who use something like a bulky grass as their only way of beating Landorus-T.

>

So I agree that the team needs a water resist, but on another note the team needs a way to check opposing Ash Greninja without a flinch ruining you, a solid ground resist that doesn’t just fall over vs Zygarde, and a check that makes switching into general special threats like AV Magearna easier - which are the main reasons for me suggesting Tangrowth > Mantine. The Move Set I’m suggesting is Giga Drain / Knock Off / Earthquake / HP Ice with the EVs: 248 Hp / 8 Def / 252 SpDef Sassy nature, ability Regenerator, and the item Assault Vest. Giga Drain is a solid stab, Earthquake is a stong lure to steels who otherwise limit Tangrowth from coming in comfortably, Knock Off is great utility crippling switch ins, and HP Ice is a solid move to nail Ground types like Landorus-T and Zygarde who can trouble Sand.

>

So at this point we’ve weakened the match up vs Volcarona and Greninja is still a tough mon to face off versus. The change of Keldeo > Greninja will help with these issues, as well as, provide solid speed control without having to be reliant on sand. The Move set I’m suggesting is Surf / Secret Sword / Icy Wind / Stone Edge Hasty nature, and the item Choice Scarf. Surf and Secret Sword are solid stabs, Icy Wind is nice coverage for mons like Zygarde and Salamence, and Stone Edge enables you to revenge threats like Charizard-Y and Volcarona.


Minor Changes:

With Landorus-T filling the role of SD breaker utilizing a Z move Excadrill is now in the position to either run Life Orb or Air Balloon. I tend to lean towards Life Orb for the instant damage, but Air Balloon is solid. Also I’d suggest Rapid Spin > Swords Dance. With Landorus-T using a Z stone, limited sand turns to take advantage of, and the removal of reliable Defog from Mantine this change will be very beneficial to helping the team function efficiently.

On M-Gardevoir I see the move Focus Blast as a way to hit mons like Tyranitar and Heatran, but with Excadrill, Hippowdon, Keldeo, Landorus-T, and EQ on Tangrowth to handle these threats in varying degrees I feel HP Fire > Focus Blast could be fruitful for the team. This swap lets you lure and eliminate threats like M-Scizor who right now has to be checked by Keldeo or stalled out by Hippowdon – so you have options vs it, but I feel HP Fire will be the most optimal way to handle this move slot.

Review of Changes:

• 
  -> SD Fly
  
• 
  -> AV
  
• 
  -> Scarf
  
• 
  : Swords Dance -> Rapid Spin
• 
  : Focus Blast -> HP Fire

Adding an importable in case you want it (just click on this line)


Anyway, I had a lot of fun rating this since we had discussed the idea behind this team weeks ago in the RMT room. I feel this rate does a good job of keeping your initial core intact, while also helping you deal with a wider array of threats. I hope this rate helps you in some way, and I can’t wait to see what team idea you come up with next. Have a nice day, and if you have any more questions or concerns on the team let me know!

hi, i actually imported the team cuz i felt that u made good changes and i wanted to use this team as a benchmark if i ever want to make gardevoir teams. however, ive been meaning to ask what is this team's counterplay to pinsir?

 

[weirdo faye]

Hi PrideMustang,
I really love the idea behind your team. I used the M-Gardevoir~Sand core in ORAS meta and loved it and I feel like it works pretty well even in SM. I suggest you following Gross Sweep's advices. Just to have a look at what the team can be with those changes: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-604715180

im not sold by this replay sry, pinsir looked like it was gna hammer the team each time it was sent out or if doubled in. i dt ur opponent used it properly that match to cause havoc with ur team

 

[Mister57]

im not sold by this replay sry, pinsir looked like it was gna hammer the team each time it was sent out or if doubled in. i dt ur opponent used it properly that match to cause havoc with ur team

You need to play around such strong threats, I did with Landorus-T and won so...

 

[Gross Sweep]

hi, i actually imported the team cuz i felt that u made good changes and i wanted to use this team as a benchmark if i ever want to make gardevoir teams. however, ive been meaning to ask what is this team's counterplay to pinsir?

Yeah I'll admit M-Pinsir can be a bit tough. The main way I'd try to deal with it is hippo, who can avoid a 2hko and whirlwind it out forcing it to take more rocks damage. The team also has a Landorus-T who can intimidate the second time it comes in as Pinsir wont be Hyper Cutter anymore. Keldeo avoids the ohko from Quick Attack and revenges with Stone Edge. Finally if you get sand up Excadrill easily handles Pinsir. I'd suggest trying to keep Hippo healthy in this match up, so that Pinsir is either forced to die to hazards as it's phased out or it ends up getting swept away by Excadrill in the end. So while the match up isn't perfect, it does have some counter play that doesn't make this an auto loss to Pinsir or anything. Also if you really want Pinsir checked running something like Edge>Quake on Hippo let's you hit Pinsir hard - also if you end up going with Rock Slide Tangrowth you have a pretty solid M-Pinsir lure which would help. Anyway hope this helps

 

[Meliodafu7]

Yeah I'll admit M-Pinsir can be a bit tough. The main way I'd try to deal with it is hippo, who can avoid a 2hko and whirlwind it out forcing it to take more rocks damage. The team also has a Landorus-T who can intimidate the second time it comes in as Pinsir wont be Hyper Cutter anymore. Keldeo avoids the ohko from Quick Attack and revenges with Stone Edge. Finally if you get sand up Excadrill easily handles Pinsir. I'd suggest trying to keep Hippo healthy in this match up, so that Pinsir is either forced to die to hazards as it's phased out or it ends up getting swept away by Excadrill in the end. So while the match up isn't perfect, it does have some counter play that doesn't make this an auto loss to Pinsir or anything. Also if you really want Pinsir checked running something like Edge>Quake on Hippo let's you hit Pinsir hard - also if you end up going with Rock Slide Tangrowth you have a pretty solid M-Pinsir lure which would help. Anyway hope this helps

Hey! As Gross said, M-Pinsir could be a rough matchup if Hippo goes down, but the team have counterplay. In Hippo's case, unboosted M-Pinsir's Return is a 3HKO, letting you switch in, take the hit and then phaze it out to make M-Pinsir take more damage from rocks. If M-Pinsir is at +2, Return is a 2HKO, you can't switch in, but given a free switch, you can do the same thing. Also, if you decide run Hydro Pump in Keldeo, it can revenge M-Pinsir after rocks (considering it takes 25% before megaevolving) and a round of sand damage. (However both moves (Stone Edge and Hydro Pump) are really prone to fail lol).
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pinsir-Mega: 195-231 (71.9 - 85.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Thanks Gross for answer this before me :P