Other Little Cup in Gen VI

[Antar]

With so much attention on the new Mega Evolutions and what the new legendaries and final forms will do to the OU and Ubers metagames, it's not really surprising that this thread hasn't been made before. But the Little Cup metagame, which changed more at the start of Gen V than probably any other metagame in the history of Pokemon, is getting shook up as well, with 26 new potential Pokemon and quite a few new items, moves and mechanics changes (the biggest one for LC probably being the nerfing of auto-weather, meaning we might see Vulpix back).

Here's a list of the new LC-eligible Pokemon this Gen

Chespin / Grass

Fennekin / Fire

Froakie / Water

Bunnelby / Normal

Fletchling / Normal/Flying

Scatterbug / Bug

Litleo / Fire/Normal

Flabébé / Fairy

Skiddo / Grass

Pancham / Fighting

Espurr / Psychic

Honedge / Steel/Ghost

Sprizee / Fairy

Swirlix / Fairy

Inkay / Dark/Psychic

Binacle / Rock/Water

Skrelp / Poison/Water

Clauncher / Water

Helioptile / Electric/Normal

Tyrunt / Rock/Dragon

Amaura / Rock/Ice

Goomy / Dragon

Phantump / Ghost/Grass

Pumpkaboo / Ghost/Grass

Bergmite / Ice

Noibat / Flying/Dragon

Here's a list of the previous-Gen Pokemon who've had their types changed

• Cleffa, Togepi and Snubbull are now Fairy-type
• Igglybuff and Azurill are now Normal/Fairy
• Ralts and Mime Jr. are now Psychic/Fairy

Please consult the Research forum for a list of moves and (eventually) stats.

Breeding and EV training have also become much easier in the new games (hidden abilities from either parent, higher odds of perfect IVs, super training), but discussion of this should probably be saved for the in-game threads.


My take: Probably the most exciting new options are Inkay, Tyrunt and Honedge, but it'll depend on how their stats shake out. I'm also excited about Noivern, the only LC Flying/Dragon. All in all, of the 26 new additions, I'm guessing around 15 will be viable. The nerfing of auto-weather is unfortunate for teams relying on Snover and Hippopotas, but it possibly means that Vulpix and auto-sun will be back in the meta this gen.

 

[Pen Ink]

Sand is a little weaker but it's not hard to keep Hippo alive. Snover is still great. Tyrant is going to be a wonderful check to Murkow, and the water/poison and grass/ghost are probably going to shake up the meta the most due to really good defensive typing. Honedge might be decent, double boosting sounds fun. Noivern will maybe be alright but Dragons don't really have any prominence in Little Cup. If dragon types become better, I'm sure Snubbull will become better due to Intimidate. Fletchling might be alright will Gale Wings, very cool revenge killer! Clauncher (or maybe Binacle? Idk) gets Shell Smash, so that should be interesting.

Knock Off is now the best move in the tier, hands down. Should be seeing that on practically anything that learns it. Eviolite is still going to be standard on almost anything.

 

[PJ_Graphix]

Magician Fennekin may be an interesting option to steal eviolites with it's stab fire moves and possibly a fire gem boost (unsure if the mechanic works so that gem activates first and allows you to steal after damage but it seems. Plausible). This would allow for an initial nuke attack followed by increased bulk.

 

[skies]

Hmm I can see Chespin being a nice SubSeeder, this is apart from my love for it. I see it can be viable

 

[spuds4ever]

Fighting types will at least to a degree lose their hold over little cup. I think tyrunt and misdreavus will prove to be a very powerful offensive core and no doubt the latter will be the unshakeable queen of LC with nothing on this list appearing to threaten it much, idk, maybe inkay if it gets a meaty special defense. The new ghosts look interesting, spin blocking would seem to get a whole lot easier now.

Edit: actually, vulpix could end up being even better than misdreavus if it gets retested, I guess we'll wait and see.

 

[Mattman324]

Can Clauncher also get Aura Sphere, Dragon Pulse, and Dark Pulse like its evolution? If so, I can see Shell Smash/Water Pulse/Dark Pulse/Aura Sphere or something being cool, if somewhat stunted by the priority of the tier.

 

[chimp]

Welp, Scraggy is probably going to hurt a lot. Now he needs to choice between Zen Headbutt for Poison, Ice Punch for Murkrow, or Poison Jab for Fairies.

Though I don't know the defensive capabilities of the any of the new fairy types. Snubbull might be pretty good now that its got a fighting resist.

 

[escarlata]

Can Clauncher also get Aura Sphere, Dragon Pulse, and Dark Pulse like its evolution? If so, I can see Shell Smash/Water Pulse/Dark Pulse/Aura Sphere or something being cool, if somewhat stunted by the priority of the tier.

does it actually get shell smash?

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I'm interested to see how Torchic will fare in the 6th Gen LC metagame. Previously, Torchic was nothing special in LC as it had nothing to really stand out among its competition. Now that Torchic can be bred with Speed Boost, Speed Boost Torchic will actually be a thing in LC. I'm not much of a LC player, but I could see a set like this being used:

Torchic @ Life Orb / Eviolite
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 36 Def / 200 SAtk / 36 SDef / 236 Spd
IVs: 3 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpA
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Hidden Power [Grass]
-Protect
-Baton Pass

The EVs are ripped right off of Torchic's current analysis, maximizing Spe and SpA while giving a slight boost to both defenses. The HP IVs give it the IVs needed for HP Grass while also giving Torchic 19 HP, so it only loses 1 HP in Life Orb recoil. I guess if you wanted to run Eviolite, though, you wouldn't need to drop the HP stat. The setup is pretty simple: do as much damage as you can with STAB Fire Blast and HP Grass, and when your sweep is interrupted, Baton Pass the Spe boosts to another Pokemon and let them go from there. Seeing as how the other two Speed Boost LC Pokemon (Carvanha and Yanma) have been banned in the past, Torchic could really show some promise with a set like this.

 

[Antar]

Can Clauncher also get Aura Sphere, Dragon Pulse, and Dark Pulse like its evolution? If so, I can see Shell Smash/Water Pulse/Dark Pulse/Aura Sphere or something being cool, if somewhat stunted by the priority of the tier.

This reminds me a lot of the talk about Shell Smash Tirtouga, who didn't really amount to much when all was said and done.

Knock Off having such boosted power will prove really interesting--it would be nice to see Eviolite's usage go down and the LC metagame become more offensive again.

 

[chimp]

I'm interested to see how Torchic will fare in the 6th Gen LC metagame. Previously, Torchic was nothing special in LC as it had nothing to really stand out among its competition. Now that Torchic can be bred with Speed Boost, Speed Boost Torchic will actually be a thing in LC. I'm not much of a LC player, but I could see a set like this being used:

Torchic @ Life Orb / Eviolite
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 36 Def / 200 SAtk / 36 SDef / 236 Spd
IVs: 3 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpA
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Hidden Power [Grass]
-Protect
-Baton Pass

The EVs are ripped right off of Torchic's current analysis, maximizing Spe and SpA while giving a slight boost to both defenses. The HP IVs give it the IVs needed for HP Grass while also giving Torchic 19 HP, so it only loses 1 HP in Life Orb recoil. I guess if you wanted to run Eviolite, though, you wouldn't need to drop the HP stat. The setup is pretty simple: do as much damage as you can with STAB Fire Blast and HP Grass, and when your sweep is interrupted, Baton Pass the Spe boosts to another Pokemon and let them go from there. Seeing as how the other two Speed Boost LC Pokemon (Carvanha and Yanma) have been banned in the past, Torchic could really show some promise with a set like this.

Well, Carvanha's attack is already above-average, and it has priority in Aqua Jet so it isn't as easily picked off by Mach Punch like Torchic would. Torchic is still susceptile to being revenged killed by Timburr or Croagunk, especially with stealth rock.
Though I can see it getting some usage thanks to Baton pass.

 

[Kingler]

Antar, Shell Smash Tirtouga is one of the most potent sweepers in BW LC, having the ability to rip apart teams, and also has excellent bulk, so idk if it amounted to much(js, not insinuating anything n_n). Fairy-types won't impact LC *as* much as other tiers, but this indeed seems to be an interesting change.
Edit-What you say is true, I admit, although the ladder isn't too smart(aipom #3 lead stats ladder says goml lol)

 

[Mattman324]

This reminds me a lot of the talk about Shell Smash Tirtouga, who didn't really amount to much when all was said and done.

At least it isn't weak to Mach Punch, unlike Tirtouga, and it resists Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch, so it's SLIGHTLY better. Plus, the ability increases the power of the moves more. As I noted, it's still horribly priority weak, but it's better than a lot of other things.

 

[Antar]

Kingler12345 And yet its usage is only around 5% (6.5% in the 1880 stats). That's solidly "OU," but people were saying it was going to DOMINATE.

 

[Shouting]

The thought of Vulpix coming down from LC ubers seems interesting, I'm not sure how it will play out, since Vulpix pretty much walks all over Snover and Amaura, while Vulpix can 2HKO physically defensive Hippo with Energy Ball.

Spritzee immediately catches my mind, it has excellent bulk, 78/60/65 (according to Serebii) and that is pretty good. In fact, I think it is the most physically defensive Fairy type along with Swirlix (not counting Snubull with intimidate,) while also having decent special attack at base 63. It's incredibly slow, but it can make for a good tank.

Tyrunt is kind of meh, it's not fast by any means ( base 48 ) which kind of hurts it. However, Resisting Flying but not being weak to fire or grass is pretty awesome for dealing with Murkrow, and it has enough defense to tank a sucker punch or two so it might seem some use. It should stay away from Dark Pulse though.

Pumpkaboo and Phantump might be good spin blockers, since Grass STAB will hit Staryu and Drilbur hard. Bergmite can get passed them in theory, but I'm not sure if it will be popular to really matter.

EDIT: Regarding Joltik, I'm not sure if it will be popular. Joltik is pretty much never seen because it is rather underwhelming, so it would be used exclusively for sticky web. I'm not sure if it will be worth the teamslot, but I guess anything could happen. If only it could learn Thunder....

 

[Sudrakon]

Don't forget about how Sticky Web will change the metagame. I can see Joltik being VERY popular just becouse of this move. Also, spinners will be essential (I have seen many teams whithout any spinner in gen V). Murkrow and Misdreavus will be more popular than ever becouse of not being affected...

 

[Pen Ink]

Welp, Scraggy is probably going to hurt a lot. Now he needs to choice between Zen Headbutt for Poison, Ice Punch for Murkrow, or Poison Jab for Fairies.

Though I don't know the defensive capabilities of the any of the new fairy types. Snubbull might be pretty good now that its got a fighting resist.

Scraggy is still probably going to run Drain Punch / HJK / Crunch / Dragon Dance. Neutral HJK's are stronger than 2x Ice Punches, so unless Gligar returns to the meta and isn't banned HJK will probably be standard. Zen Headbutt is a niche move, it's pretty useless because the only prominent poison in the tier is Foongus. It doesn't seem like there will be any prominent Fairy types either, besides maybe Spritzee.

The problem with Sticky Web is that Joltik isn't really that good and I can easily switch into Drilbur, which completely destroys Joltik.

Also Torchic has to deal with stuff like Defensive Mienfoo and Chinchou, which it can't OHKO. Also Aqua Jet.
212+ Atk Splash Plate Tirtouga Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Torchic: 18-24 (94.73 - 126.31%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO That was kinda dumb cause Carvanha has the same problems. Nevermind.

 

[Gerard]

Misdreavous is even more dangerous than last gen... -.-'

The meta will be very interesting this gen, weather Nerf and Fairy types are both HUGE changes to LC, which last gen saw pokes such as Dribull, Murkrow, Mienfoo and Scraggy dominating the tier, I'm particularly interested in Snubbul myself since with Eviolite it hard counters every Scarggy set and it can check Murkrow and Mienfoo thanks to intimidate and ressistance to Dark And Fighting attacks, along with providing Heal Beal, Thunder Wave & Wish support. I really wish Dedenne would have an evo though, it would have been a really good mon (and an amazing Murkrow counter).

Bunnelby seems also worth noticing thanks to Cheek Pouch, that ability seems really good in conjunction with Oran Berry and it also has Huge Power so it will be interesting to see which sets will develop

I'm more exited about the mons returning to the tier, Carvanha might find it harder to sweep thanks to the new fairies and Heliptil, Gligar didn't get many more checks but Bergmite could works against him, Vulpix returning, that's gonna be interesting

The BP change in many moves will be also really in portent, specially Hidden Power since many of the little mons NEED it so much for coverage (And thinking about it Missy might not be as strong as I previously thought), this is really gonna aliviate some pressure for mons such as Chinchou since he no longer fears Hidden Power Grass from Murkrow (and with the change to sleep mechanics, actually forget what I said, I'm looking forwards the most for this little hut, Go Chinchou!

PS: Shouldn't the list name Cleffa instead of Clefairy?

 

[UltiMario]

Nitpick Antar, Clefairy has Cleffa as a Prevo so it's not in LC.

 

[Antar]

Nitpick Antar, Clefairy has Cleffa as a Prevo so it's not in LC.

...

Pretend I misspelled "Clefairy." Man, and I was so proud of myself for catching Igglybuff!

 

[Chieliee]

Knock off is the defining change for little cup this time. It was already used when it had what, 20 base power? Now it's much more powerful, allowing the likes of Mienfoo to get past ghost-types more easily. Knock Off Scraggy will also have room for more coverage, as it can probably afford to not run both Crunch and Knock off, but only Knock off. Offense and Hyper Offense will be the most prominent team archetypes, as stall or bulky offense will just get torn apart by knock off.


Regarding the weather debuff:
Hippopotas and Snover are still very viable Pokémon, even if their weather isn't permanent anymore. Hippopotas is a great counter to many Fighting types, as it can just phaze them out, while Snover will remain the premier offensive Grass-type in the tier (or perhaps the grass/ghost, idk) Its STAB combination has amazing coverage in this tier. Drilbur will still be used as a stealth rock setter/spinner, but i predict that the Sand Rush set will disappear.

As for new Pokémon, Pumpkaboo, Skrelp, Tyrunt, Honedge, Noibat, Spritzee and Surpluff are the ones that look viable to me, judging purely by stats and typing. Moves can change a lot though so who knows