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Metagame Godly Gift [OM of the Month!] (Deoxys-A and Sablenite Banned!)

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by iLlama, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. OM!

    OM!

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    I agree, the only thing though is it has to have a HP slot, while Munchlax already has 135 HP, so Munchlax's Defense from say Shuckle will be higher, so Dusclops has less HP and Defense on the physical side, but more Special Defense. I would say the best Defensive Eviolite Pokémon are Dusclops (HP), Rhydon (SpDef), Munchlax (Def), Nosepass *original 135 Def and 90 SpD (HP Slot) remember rock types get a Sandstream boost for their Special Defense on top of their Eviolite boost, so they can be used with Tyranitar, etc. to make up for their lower Special Defense stat.

    For offense, I saw a surprisingly effective Technician Scyther using Vacuum wave in the Special Attack slot of a Mewtwo team. It had Silver Wind, Ominous Wind, Vacuum Wave and I forgot the 4th move, but it was pretty effective, especially as a surprise. During battle it did get +1 all stats boost, and I saw it as a slightly powerful threat. I don't think it has a way to boost Special Attack beyond the Silver / Ominious Wind moves.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017 at 3:39 PM
  2. iLlama

    iLlama

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    Having almost double the votes of the first suspect, with much more input and discussion, makes a huge difference. 9 votes isn't a lot of votes, I give you that, however I don't see the point of having more people, such as myself, post their requirements if we agree with the outcome of the votes, such as in the case of Sablenite, or simply can't make a difference in the overall outcome, such as with Deoxys-A. Plus, the requirements were incredibly easy to acquire for this suspect test compared to the last one, especially if you have an understanding of the Godly Gift meta and are above average at playing the ladder. Obviously they are still a challenge to a lesser extent which is good for making sure people who put time and effort into playing the metagame really have a say as to what happens in it. More specifically, regarding Deoxys-A, the suspect vote and reasoning from voters and other users for or against banning Deoxys-A paints a pretty clear picture depicting the test's outcome. The suspect test was a full week in length, had fairly simple requirements, and was advertised quite heavily and readily accessible to anyone to anyone who accesses the Other Metas room on PS! or the Other Metagames forum on Smogon.

    Regarding Shuckle and Clefable, as well as other Pokémon or signature items, unless there is a general consensus or a pressing need to address something specifically, there hopefully won't need to be further suspects (would mean the meta is balanced, but that can change).
    Not sure why you're bringing up STABmons, as this is a completely different metagame run by a different group of individuals and playable at a different period of time. How they handle(d) anything does not correlate to anything that occurs in Godly Gift. I said this already, but the Godly Gift thread has extremely easy access as it's available in the Other Metas room on PS! and appears in the Other Metagames forum, let alone how we have gotten multiple mentions on Smogon Social Media as being the Other Metagame of the Month and receiving about 6,000+ collective page views during the suspect test alone. Our threads existence and the suspect test occurring this previous week is not hard to find by any means. Stating that this page lacks visibility is simply false. Your guess with regards to only 20% of Godly Gift users knowing about this page can't be proven or disproven so it's a pretty pointless statement, though considering the page traffic being 43,000+ page views, this is probably incorrect.

    I'm not sure as to why you think that a double suspect is a problem. Multiple aspects of a metagame being suspected, especially for an OMotM, is not uncommon by any means. The fact that the votes of one suspect item to another suspect item not correlating with one another has close to zero relevance. The topics of suspect were two separate things, Deoxys-A and Sablenite, and they were argued upon and voted for with different reasoning behind both, i.e. why people may have voted ban for one and no ban for the other. This is perfectly acceptable and doesn't change the validity of a suspect test in any way.

    If you have a problem with the voter turnout, take it upon yourself to send a private message to people that discuss Godly Gift either in this thread or in the Other Metas chat on PS! and ask them why they didn't acquire the reqs and vote on the suspect test. It's not as though anybody was being forced to take part in the suspect test or to not vote on the issue.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017 at 4:13 PM
  3. Why Nerdy

    Why Nerdy formerly Chopin Alkaninoff
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    As someone who actually ladders with different teams, this is clearly NOT true. This is one of the very few metagame where getting reqs is not easy. Yeah, sure, not everyone is as good as a teambuilder as you, but thing is, this meta is one of the metas where you have to take time to experiment your team, not just slapping brokenmons and win games (like many of the metas in the past). Actually that is one of the reasons why this meta is fun.
  4. AquaticPanic

    AquaticPanic

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    Problem is: This is a monthly meta. We don't have all that time to use in a vote.
    Thinkerino likes this.
  5. Stall is coming

    Stall is coming

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    iLlama,
    Little Quiproquo, When I speak about double suspect, I'm talk about double suspect, I'm speak of the suspect n°1 of M-Sab and the suspect n°2 of M-Sab. It's completely normal to make a suspect with 2 pokemons.

    I completely agree and respectful with this suspect. Everyone except one people who decide to ban Deoxys-A with excellent reasons. And 66 % ( and 66%>60% ) decide to ban M-Sableye. I has problem with this politic of double suspect ( I agree, that's exceptional, but I find that unfair). BUT in hindsight, if you decide to not suspect M-Sab the last week, there would have been a suspect for M-Sab this week. Even i think that your decision were unfair, it's was the BEST decision to make.

    The argument of Clefable and Shuckle is sarcastic.

    "Men lie, women lie, numbers don't."
    My personal impression was wrong. You have the statistics so you have right. So my argumentation is incorrect. I only search to find a explanation of the little number of voters.

    Why Nerdy, I'm not so good in teambuilding or the best staller in this generation. It's completely wrong.
    77% in GXE is hard to get, but 72% is easy, don't see any proud in this sentence. For everyone, and not just for me. I'm just a good player, that's it, not the best and not the worst.
    Little Quiproquo. When I speak about double suspect, I'm speak of the suspect n°1 of M-Sab and the suspect n°2 of M-Sab. It's completely normal to make a suspect with 2 pokemons.
  6. Chessking345

    Chessking345

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    Why is Talonflame unranked? I understand that with the Gale Wings nerf it is much weaker and requires more support, but Acrobatics without an item is a 110 BP move with +1 priority which coming off at least 120 Atk is pretty good, and it is highly likely that it will get an even higher Atk stat.
    The Ruins of Alpha likes this.
  7. Err0r Mobutt

    Err0r Mobutt

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    Even with a higher attack stat, it's still really fragile. And with all the defensive sets present, Talonflame will have a hard time getting things done. Also, there are many other prioritize moves with more than a +1. I aren't the best at teambuilding but chances are it'll hit once then get KO'ed (unless you have three layers of spikes + stealth rock on but they can still survive it). But to be fair, leaving it unranked is not in it's favor.
  8. Why Nerdy

    Why Nerdy formerly Chopin Alkaninoff
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    K so. I'm gonna make maybe a slightly unreasonable suggestion. Can we consider unban Mega Metagross as a follower?

    Reasoning:

    1. In OU, Mega metagross was banned for restricting Offense due to being bulky and have very few offensive checks. This is clearly not true in Godly Gift. Offense doesn't really restricted from Mega Metagross in Godly Gift because the mons are bulkier and more powerful.

    2. Yeah, I said there are way more checks in here than in OU. Stuff like Pdon, Ho-oh, Arceus Ground, Arceus Water, Defense Volcarona, Defense Zard Y (it's excellent lol), Speed Tyranitar, Speed Alolanwak, Speed Volcanion and some bulky waters all can check Mega Gross. Those are way more than OU, which is limited to just Mega Scizor, Hippowdon, Skarm and a few more I forgot.

    3. It doesn't really benefit anything from inheriting stats. It already has good stats spread so it benefits very little in this meta.

    Point #3 is probably less important but point #1 and #2 are important so please look at it.

    I'm not gonna suggest unban other mons as followers because so far only Mega Metagross stands out as "least broken" if unbanned as a follower.
    ace 434 and AquaticPanic like this.
  9. Lcass4919

    Lcass4919 The Xatu Warrior

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    idk about you, but i really dont want to face a 120/150/110 bulk mon with 145 attack, 110 speed, and tough claws and a great typing letting it shrug off some of the best sweepers in the tier, like swellow, serperior, and the like. with NO investment might i add. its incredibly bulky, incredibly strong, and i just cant see it being unbanned, especially now that its one biggest flaw (its 80 speed pre mega) has been patched out. not to mention it beats the premier unaware mon, and is extremely hard to wall due to its vast moveset. i see darkrai,aegis, and even blaziken being a higher chance of being unbanned then megagross
  10. Why Nerdy

    Why Nerdy formerly Chopin Alkaninoff
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Nah, no way darkrai and aegis has a better chance lol, especially freaking Aegis. It's a Steel/Ghost, has WAY fewer checks and is already hard to kill with 60 / 150 / 150 bulk, but NOW you get to give it 120 / 150 / 150 bulk, which practically can survive ANY supereffective hit, making the Weakness Policy set practically unstoppable. Same for Darkrai and Blaziken, because it still really hard to check them by using non-Uber mons.
    ace 434 likes this.
  11. OM!

    OM!

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    I could see that this thread will totally be written about in The Flying Press / remembered for all of this voting controversy.
    *I just want to give iLlama credit for an awesome metagame, regardless of what vote you were siding with.*

    Hopefully this will make it popular enough to implement on the main server after June, its more unique than BH in some ways because you could use the same team and simply switch the order of the God/followers to change the base stats completely (like having Shuckle in the HP giving defenses versus having Shuckle elsewhere receiving a boost such as Speed to abuse Encore). It will be cool to see what happens after June.

    Can we focus more now on what could be potential threats? I loved using Snorlax in the Speed slot due to Gluttony Aguav Berry Belly Drum, when Deoxys-A was still allowed, but I still find it useful in the same slot with Pheromosa lending speed, allowing for a 1-turn set up that 1HKOs more than 2/3 the metagame. B- Rank.

    Ironically, it's pre-evo Munchlax with Eviolite and Thick Fat in the Defense slot and Thick Fat makes for one of the physically bulkiest Pokémon when used on Shuckle teams, already carrying a base 135 HP stat, and is probably the best, if not the perfect counter to Alolan Marowak! C+ Rank.

    *Are there any hidden threats or surprisingly bulky tanks you guys have tested to some success?
    I want to see if we can find some hidden gems for the viability ranking before the month closes out the promotional period for good.*
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 1:15 PM
    Thinkerino and iLlama like this.
  12. tegrof19

    tegrof19

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  13. LordHelix

    LordHelix

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    Well i have a few pokes i think are pretty decent and i wanna start a discussion here so i have my list of noms i wanna share (took pretty long to put together hope u like it)

    Edit: since this post is so long, im tried and organized it a bit better so you can choose to see which noms i made individually

    Probopass (open)

    Probopass: unranked -> C+/B-

    [​IMG]
    Probopass @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy Magnet Pull
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Taunt
    - Toxic/Pain Split
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]/Protect/Thunderwave/Volt Switch

    This thing is so versatile, can be used In the special attack/atk slot of almost any god, literally no god has a bad offensive stats

    This mon traps celesteela, skarmory, ferrothorn and even does hefty damage to scizor before it U-turns out if u go timid, evs in health to maximize its already excellent natural bulk and full evs in special attack to destroy them

    Why did i choose probopass over magnezone or a-golem? Well for starters it learns taunt, which is useful for taunting these mons before they seed or recover, second it has an amazing typing for trapping the steels mentioned above (still 4x weak to ground like zone but at least it is neutral to fire)

    if you are boring and like some random calcs like me) (open)

    calcs are done using 120 health for the opponent and 120 spatk for your probopass
    Celesteela
    252+ SpA Probopass Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 146-172 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    And autotomize steela cant touch you, assuming they have 120 spatk
    252+ SpA Celesteela Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass: 81-96 (25 - 29.6%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery, their best option against you while you

    252+ SpA Probopass Thunderbolt vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 204-240 (57.3 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Ferrothorn
    252+ SpA Probopass Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 208-248 (46.8 - 55.8%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    While their best option against u is

    0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 90-106 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- 74.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery


    Teammate options (open)

    For gods, probopass actually fits easily on almost any team that needs some steel trapping needs, and teams that wont really mind sacrificing the spatk/atk slot for it, as tbh it has a big oppotunity cost since you could rather have a powerful breaker there, if youre wondering why i mentioned it having a physical set, its because it can utilize a smack down/eq/pain split/taunt set and can fit easier on mewtwo teams due to the competition in the spa slot

    It also isnt a mon you build your team around but rather is a supporting mon that could be put on your team if you want to eliminate steels, there are lots of sweeper mons that would really appreciate steels being gone like

    Physical attackers like scizor, excadrill, pinsir and kartana, dhelmise who cant get past skarm or ferrothorn work well with probopasd

    Most fairy types and psychic types such as bulu, lele, mag and alakazam also really appreciate most steels being trapped by probopass



    Florges (open)

    Florges: unranked -> C+
    [​IMG]
    Florges also deserves a mention thanks to being incredibly bulky on both sides if it is gifted a good defense, it can utilize a mono attacking (similar set to phys def magic guard alakazam) moonblast calm mind, aromatherapy, synthesis set, or it can just be a great wish passer being a general great wall with its great mono fairy typing,

    Teammates options (open)

    Well for god choices, groudon is a pretty obvious one making florges have massive 78/140/154 bulk making it an excellent pivot/tank, it also fits pretty well on arceus balance that appreciates wish support and heal bell, it

    As for teammates funny enough, its calm mind set likes to have the probopass or dugtrio for it to remove steels/poison so it can sweep, and for its cleric set appreciates any bulky steel teammate, such as celesteela or ferrothorn for example which also appreciate the wish support from florges back, it also forms a great d/f/s core with giratina, celesteela and herself



    Swoobat (open)

    Swoobat: unranked -> B
    [​IMG]
    Sample set (open)

    Get sweeped (Swoobat) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Simple
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost/Substitute
    - Stored Power (or psychic for more reliable stab without setting up)
    - Skill Swap (other options include Light Screen/Toxic)

    My basic set, with this set it had has calm mind to boost up till at least once or twice, stored power to destroy absolutely every mon that doesnt resist if receive a good spa from like mewtwo for example, skill swap is for screwing with clefable for example u force out a mon with psychic, you calm mind as they switch onto clef or quagsire, then skill swap to receive their unaware and now proceed to sub(to protect from status)or roost and sweep as they cant even 4hko u

    Or an alternative is setting up screen as clef/quag switch in, and proceed to set up on them as they no longer 2hko to boost up stored power's base power and beat them


    And ik honestly swoobat may sound like a meme but it really works well and its really versatile
    Now in godly gift it can be given a good defense and now it can be a bulky sub, roost, calm mind, stored power sweeper destroying everything except darks (similar to mg alakazams set). Or it can be given SpA and be a speedy sweeper

    Just look at this calc with base 120 SpA for example when you calm mind off a switch and then grab another calm mind in front of mag since it doesnt 3hko with anything and swoobat has pretty nice speed

    +4 0 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 199-234 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, and thats against an av mag with no investment
    Tho unaware (clefable specifically) and dark types hurt it alot

    Teammate options (open)

    For gods choices, mewtwo is an excellent choice as it can give swoobat 154 spatk which nothing in the tier can wall except for darks after 1 or 2 calm minds, thats where teammate support from dugtrio comes in, with 110 attack and a choice band/z move it can outspeed and ko almost every single relevant dark/steel, including bulkier unaware clefable which can take swoobat.

    For other good teammates, tapu lele with terrain extender (not a gimmick believe me, i used it on my rain team to prevent anything from outspeeding me with priority and it works perfectly) further boosts stored power (not boosted by terrain sorry) its psychic to incredible levels, and defensively A-muk also synergizes well with it



    Avalugg (open)

    Avalugg: unranked -> C

    [​IMG]
    Also avalugg with high SpD, not much to say about it its an ultimate physical wall with rapid spin and reliable recovery but a bad typing, and can be gifted a good base spdef, altho sounds better on paper than in practice but i still think it deserves a place in the rankings for being a great wall, spinner and great attack

    Teammate options (open)

    For gods, the most viable option is kyogre making it extremely bulky from both sides with 95/184/140 defenses, making it able to eat up any hit from both sides while providing hazard support, arceus balance also works pretty well

    For teammates that synergize with it well are celesteela, calm mind tapu fini in the health slot, cleric support from clefable due to being vulnerable to toxic, i can provide replays later but for the time being its pretty obvious what it does, it spins, forces out threats it walls and has reliable recovery while being incredibly bulky



    Doublade (open)

    Doublade: D -> C+
    And again since this is a list of all my noms i might as well add my old doublade nom here


    Also for last i nom
    Kingdra (open)

    Kingdra: unranked -> B+/B
    [​IMG]
    Kingdra, kingdra is a mon the absolutely destroys offensive teams in rain, with 150 spatk from kyogre and choice specs, even resists are 2hko if not 1hko, not much can even switch on this mon even water types thanks to draco meteor, i think unranked is a little bit unfair to it considering it craps on ho and balanced offense

    Calcs of this monster (open)

    Calculated with 150 SpA

    Vs bulky mons
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Rain: 421-496 (94.8 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO this is bulky arceus

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Giratina: 636-750 (126.1 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 154-182 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (with 120 spdef)

    Even kyogre drops to a resist
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre in Rain: 185-218 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    And for revenge killing
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior in Rain: 258-303 (88.6 - 104.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y in Rain: 421-496 (119.2 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Surf vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja in Rain: 297-351 (104.2 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 306-361 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

    Like seriously this mon outspeeds and 1hkos or, 2hkos at worst, every single mon from the S tier until way till the b tier bar alomomola, tangrowth, and mantine


    replays (open)

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7godlygift-587762411
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7godlygift-588709652
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7godlygift-587402514
    It has incredible power with choice specs and has an excellent matchup vs offensive/HO teams even if they have a resist,



    TL;DR
    [​IMG] unranked -> C+/B-[​IMG] unranked -> C+
    [​IMG] unranked -> B [​IMG] unranked -> C
    [​IMG] D -> C+ [​IMG] unranked -> B+/B
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017 at 12:51 PM
    The Ruins of Alpha and OM! like this.
  14. Schpoonman

    Schpoonman formerly Lord of Bays

    Joined:
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    Magearna should be higher than A-. Fairium Z in Speed is one of the nastiest sweepers in the metagame (watch out for Ditto, or Imposterproof your team) and Magearna's fantastic natural bulk and typing even let you slug it out for a blow or two if you can't get a KO off the bat. If my God has at least 120 Speed Magearna gets that spot.

    Mind you, it can come in earlier in the game and blow holes with Fleur Cannon as well, or pop an early Twinkle Tackle to wallbreak instead of saving it as a ball-roller.
    The Ruins of Alpha likes this.
  15. Lcass4919

    Lcass4919 The Xatu Warrior

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    *coughs awkwardly* i mean...that probopass might be able to trap...if it had magpull that is. (probably wanna fix that)
    LordHelix likes this.
  16. OM!

    OM!

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    First of all... YES!
    I have to admit, I was typing out a Nosepass set with eviolite to abuse Magnet Pull in my previous post, thinking of putting in the HP slot, and suggested the steels you did, but then thought it would be criticized because it had no offensive pressure, even on super effective hits. The advantage over Probopass would be that it had no weakness to enemies using Magnet Pull since it is a Pure Rock type, but then saw how weak its own offenses were and decided against it because Dusclops has more bulk on the Special Defense, (unless you count Sandstorm) and almost the same amount of Defense, while using Night Shade so it wouldn't need to go in Atk or SpA, as it would make the most use of the HP slot. Nosepass cannot go in Atk or SpA because it's HP is too low. I didn't think to use an offense slot when I considered Probopass afterwards... (I planned to Pair it with Giratina since it resists Nosepass' Grass, and Water weaknesses, while it is immune to Fighting and Earthquake! In return, Nosepass could trap Steel types that resist its Dragon offense. It sound good until I realized how bulky most Steels are).

    Props to you for using Probopass in the offensive slot. I had a Serebii window open while trying to make my post make sense, and only thought of the HP slot, instead of the offense. I can happily say, that you have proven that there is something unique that Probopass can do effectively that Nosepass cannot keep up with. My advice- one thing my post was going to include was Pain Split in my sets.

    I would suggest you give Probopass Pain Split over Toxic. Your goal is to trap Pokémon that are immune to Toxic, if you pick an offensive enough God, you won't need to Toxic them because your attacks will hit hard enough. Maybe a Mewtwo god? 154 SpA base is gonna allow you to take advantage of your bulk without worrying about the SpA EV or nature investment, just max bulk. Also, something Pain Split does better on your set than the ones I considered include taking advantage of its low HP, as it had good enough defensive stats to keep healthy with a recovery move. Glad to see you had a better idea than me, I thought Nosepass and Probopass were not salvageable, but I truly think yours makes it work!

    I tried Swoobat a few weeks ago, and couldn't make it successful because I tried to use too many attacks for coverage. Your set could work since you rely on Stored Power, and focus on survival, letting your teammates handle Dark-types.
    Speaking of teammates, have your tried a Dugtrio in the Attack slot of an offensive god? Dugtrio can trap a Swoobat's biggest threats: Electric/Dark and/or Rock types like Tyranitar, Yvetal (Stone Edge) and KO them with a good god like Rayquaza giving it 150 Attack. With Electric/Dark/Rock types eliminated, I would suggest Dugtrio for your Swoobat team!

    Also thanks to you and iLlama for liking my post. I see he edited my suggestions into the OP VR!

    LordHelix I would suggest posting a replay or 2 of at least one of the sets to showcase it. I didn't post any from Munchlax because the strategy is just bulk, and calculations are enough (and comparing it to another Pokémon already ranked such as Mega-Slowbro), but for Snorlax I did because it is a unique set that requires proof for the explanation. I would say Swoobat falls into that category because it is unique and needs to be proven so people buy it. It's like an acquired taste, once people have a sample they will love it, replays are your sample.

    Overall, I will say that Kingdra requires little evidence, I used it and had it used against me and I know for a fact it is literally the reason Kyogre is a boss, because a boss always brings his best crew to clean up a team and SWEEP them away!

    Good job on Avalugg, it totally was a Pokémon that I saw had great HP and Defense but didn't know how best to capitalize it.

    Maybe the best way to promote some of your sets would be to suggest teammates. For example, it is clear Kingdra needs Rain Support, and better offense, so a non-Blue Orb Kyogre covers both by giving it the weather and SpA boost all at once. You already mentioned it, and that's a great way you reinforced how a Kingdra rocks!

    Next, Swoobat sounds great with Dugtrio support. Mewtwo can also boost SpA or Speed or Rayquaza can boost SpA for Swoobat and Attack for Dugtrio.
    Don't worry about Unaware, it only negates the inclusion of the stat boosts, but Stored Power still gets the Base Power Move benefits of having the stats, so +4 SpA is still 150 base power after STAB. Clefable better have Toxic.

    Overall, love your enthusiasm and glad to see this thread Is on to making more positive discussion!
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 11:04 PM
    LordHelix likes this.
  17. LordHelix

    LordHelix

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    Oops lol i didnt pay attention, fixed

    Thanks for the suggestions, also btw to be fair im not the one who should take the credit for this probopass set as i got this idea from a random user i was battling on the ladder ( so kudos to him for making this creative set)

    For your suggestion i decided to add pain split in (totally forgot it gets pain split), it could be used instead of toxic since as u said it wont be poisoning any steels anytime soon or maybe even hidden power fire as you will be just fine with thunderbolt even against a ferrothorn

    sounds weird but i have an example replay here (open)

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7godlygift-585012464 this was on the first day the meta came on the ladder (so pretty early on) and in this replay (turn 15-23) it shows you dont even need hpfire to trap ferrothorn (because u can pp stall its powerwhips/gyro ball) leaving another moveslot open for protect or pain split


    And for suggesting teammates/gods thanks for the great idea, ill edit them onto the original post (swoobat does pretty good on mewtwo, arceus's and kyurem-w teams for example)

    Also i forgot that stored power still keeps the high base power
    252 SpA (120 SpA) Swoobat Stored Power (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ SpD Unaware Clefable: 226-267 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery but it still beat you because moonblast 2hkos and u cant beat it without multiple boosts, but with the right support you can keep it at around low enough to break through (thats where dugtrio comes in, ill edit some calcs onto my orginal post to show what i mean)

    For replays i unfortunately dont have anything outside of kingdra and avalugg, i will post the swoobat ones tho soon enough. Thanks for the constructive criticism!
  18. OM!

    OM!

    Joined:
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    248
    Maybe instead of Sub on Swoobat, you could use Light Screen. It could work because if Swoobat is forced out it could support your team, it will be useful against Clefable, and it would be great after the first Calm Mind. Why? Because the first Calm Mind doubles its SpA and SpD, the 2nd one makes it x3, which means you are 1.5 x 2 to get to x3, where as a Light Screen makes 2x 2 which is x4, then next turn you Calm Mind to make the SpD 4 x 1.5 which makes it x 6 and then Calm Mind again to make it x 1.34 to make it x8. (Remember the 3rd Calm Mind without Light Screen makes it go from x3 to x4, effectively adding 33% of x3 to make it x4). Now what Clefable? Booya! That's what!

    Or Toxic it and Roost since it can 2HKO you, and you can Roost Stall, plus it can hurt Dark types with Toxic. It is funny when a tank gets tanked.
  19. LordHelix

    LordHelix

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    If i understood you correctly, then unfortunately that wont work as unaware also ignores the opponents defense boosts (not light screen tho), so a +6 swoobat will still be hit as hard as a unboosted swoobat although i did find a way to break through it tho its a bit gimmicky and involves skill swap to remove its unaware, i have updated that into the swoobat set on my original post

    Toxic tho sounds solid, it can be used to weaken switch ins early game such as tyranitar and such
  20. Jajoken

    Jajoken Majestic
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
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    I haven't used it in this generation, but how do people feel about Electrode? Yeah, coverage is kind of lame but it gives non-Deoxys (N) teams a 150 Speed mon or Deoxys teams a third 150 Speed mon. I've run Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/HP Ice/Taunt with both Focus Sash and Life Orb on Deo-A teams last gen and it worked very well. It's probably the only reliable Swellow answer on HO thanks to Soundproof, and if its S-rank is anything to go by, Swellow is no less of a threat generation. I'd recommend checking it out for those who haven't! I'd rank it higher than C but I'm not sure how it fares in this gen.

    Also, anyone try Tangela for SpD or HP? If Munchlax and Dusclops are considered viable, I wonder if it might work as well.
    sin(pi) likes this.
  21. Semako

    Semako

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    Jan 25, 2017
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    241
    The problem with Tangela is that it nearly doubles its HP base when evolving into Tangrowth, and Tangrowth is usually run in SpDef with an AV as a general special wall. Tangela in SpDef has less bulk overall due to the lower HP base (assault vest boost is the same as eviolite boost for SpDef), and when run in HP slot, it doesn't have SpDef Tangrowth's great special bulk.
    Jajoken and AquaticPanic like this.
  22. OM!

    OM!

    Joined:
    May 1, 2016
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    248
    For Swoobat, your Light Screen would prevent Clefable from 2HKOing you with Moonblast.
    I'm not sure what you mean by Unaware- Clefable's Unaware prevents you from getting stronger SpA, and you mentioned that Moonblast off of Clefable is a 2HKO because it would ignore the Swoobat Calm Mind boosts. My idea of Light Screen was to turn Moon Blast into a 3-4HKO instead of a 2HKO since it is a field effect, rather than a stat boost.
    Light Screen was for Swoobat VS Clefable.

    When it comes to Stored Power, an Unboosted Swoobat will hit Clefable harder because of the Base Power, even though the stat boosts are ignored.

    So basically, Power up, Light Screen, Roost, Power Up, etc. I hope that helps. Light Clay over Leftovers might also be an option, as Clefable will likely switch out, and if they send in a hard counter such as a Special Electric Sweeper, then Light Screen will still be there.

    UPDATE!: One thing I forgot to mention was the use of Z-Moves that improve speed by +2 as Z-Trick or Z-Psycho-Shift. Swoobat with Simple will get +4 Speed, which not only powers up Stored Power, but also allow it to outspeed most of the tier without focusing on any Nature/EVs for the first time you use it. So basically you can focus on Offense SpA and HP or SpA and SpD any not waste EVs/nature on Speed.

    I would heavily suggest that as a slash on your set!
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017 at 7:37 PM
  23. Chessking345

    Chessking345

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    5
    I would like to nominate Diancie: Diancie: Unranked -> B-/C+ or higher
    Diancie has very high Def and SpD and decent offensive stats with a great movepool having strong STABs like Moonblast, Power Gem, and Diamond Storm (which has a high chance of doubling Diancie's already high Def), good coverage in Earth Power, Psychic/Psyshock, and Hidden Power, and in addition good support moves like SR and Heal Bell.
    Its good typing gives it a resistance to Normal and Flying as well as Fire, making it a decent check to dangerous threats such as Swellow, FakeSpeed users, and Marowak-A. Steel types are not that common in GG so that weakness is less noticeable.
    Diancie's stats are not that great though, its high defence stats are hindered by the bad HP stat, its speed is terrible, and its offensive stats are not very impressive. However, Godly Gift can provide Diancie with better stats, and thanks to its diverse movepool it can run many sets and is versatile.
    For example, with a higher HP stat Diancie makes a much better supporter and can tank hits better.
    With a higher speed stat Diancie can use a Calm Mind set.
    With a higher Atk or SpA Diancie can deal more damage and not become too passive.
    Some Calculations (open)

    Specially Defensive (Diamond Storm can boost defence)
    (180 SpA) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 118-139 (26.5 - 31.3%) -- 20.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    (180 Atk) 252+ Atk Smeargle Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 216-256 (48.6 - 57.6%) -- approx. 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Note here that Diamond Storm has a 50% chance of doubling Diancie's Defence, allowing it to easily tank another Bonemerang
    (Speed) 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 244-288 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 226-266 (50.9 - 59.9%) -- 86.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Same as above, Bonemerang cannot 2HKO if Diamond storm gets boost.
    Speed after 1 Calm Mind
    +1 252+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 213-252 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Ok turns out Diancie is pretty weak offensively with 100 SpA
    Offensive
    (150 SpA) +1 252+ SpA Life Orb Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 370-437 (108.5 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  24. Why Nerdy

    Why Nerdy formerly Chopin Alkaninoff
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Now that it's released, let's talk about it.

    [​IMG]
    Lord forcing out (Camerupt) @ Cameruptite
    Ability: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Yawn
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power

    One of the strongest mon to be slapped in Speed slot. With Speed slot, it's basically a second Landorus-I if it were OU (this is why I can't exactly say this meta is OU based because of the insane power level), minus U-turn and being an Uber. In practice, I found this set works the most, forcing out a lot of things, especially Special Walls that tries to recieve a hit from this. And then you can set up Stealth Rock. Maybe people will be familiar with this for a while, but nobody expects a Yawn the first time they meet a Mega Camerupt.
    AquaticPanic likes this.
  25. iLlama

    iLlama

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2015
    Messages:
    846
    Kingdra already has B- and Florges already has C, which I think are good spots for both of them at this moment. Probopass, although it can trap Steel-types, is incredibly niche and doesn't really work against things like Support Celesteela (Earthquake) or extremely threatening Steel-types like Magearna and Kartana. Especially now that Cameruptite has been released and based off of Mega Camerupt's prevalence in gen 6 Godly Gift, I really can't see this Pokémon getting higher than C- at best. Swoobat I can see landing around B. If it receives the correct stat and has some good team support it can definitely be a threat. Avalugg is a tough one because even though it has amazing physical defense and can get a great HP or SpD stat, it's still incredibly susceptible to common threats, is weak to Stealth Rock, and is just such a passive Pokémon that a large portion of offensive stat receivers can just run through this thing. Plus, putting this thing in your SpD slot means you're bypassing some amazing team options that can completely outclass this thing, so it's a major step down in viability. I'll put it into D for now, but I don't see it going higher than this. I'm not sure why you think Doublade should be moved up, so if you could explain this nom more that'd be appreciated.

    I loved using Mega Camerupt last generation since it was an absolute nuke in the speed slot and could force out just about anything that didn't resist both of its STAB moves. I definitely think this thing will become a prominent threat in response to Pokémon like Tapu Koko, Tangrowth, Xurkitree, and all those ridiculous Steel-types running around.
    Funbot28 likes this.

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