Other General Metagame Discussion

[WebBowser]

Consider CB entei as well, makes a nice heatran lure and CB sacred fire is godly.

 

[Wombat4sale]

Consider CB entei as well, makes a nice heatran lure and CB sacred fire is godly.

That is a good idea, I completely forgot about Entei for some stupid reason. I like Lucario and Dragonite because Dragonite lures in Fairies for obvious reasons and Lucario really decimates with Iron Tail, which I have been currently running. However, I might replace it for Ice Punch to better handle dragons. Entei's Fire-typing will be helpful to get passed Steel-types so I can spam my priority more. I will begin making a team for laddering for this (srs bsns time) to actually get some data on it. So, I will be back later to go over it more in depth.

For the record, if this offensive core starts to take off, I am coining it Speed Spam.

 

[Wombat4sale]

I think if you wanted to drop one of the three spammers you could, they all have different uses when it comes to coverage so you could drop any of them and build your team accordingly. Originally I thought Entei would be less useful (Which is why I initially mentioned only Lucario and Dragonite) but now I am kind of thinking Dragonite would be the easiest member to replace. I really only think so because, while Outrage is a brilliant STAB move and CBDragonite is the hardest hitter turn 1, Outrage can be taken advantage of by fairies for obvious reasons and it kills your momentum pretty quick. Also, with CBnite unless you are packing wish or healing wish support you generally only get one chance to use Multiscale, for this reason I think Roost+3 attacks Dnite is an appropriate substitute.

Defog or spin support is super helpful as usual, as is hazard setting.

Edit: I deleted a paragraph that ended up being redundant.

 

[AM]

Right. Let me revive this thread with a general question to ask. How has the metagame adapted and evolved around defog as a hazard controlling move? Recently, I have been seeing the rise of Defogless offence, even though they have mons that take 25% from SR, they opt not to run Defog on their teams. Why is that so? Also, Volt Turn offence have also began to ditch defog (3 attacks roost Latios). Why has this been a rising trend? Am I missing something?

As far as hazard control it really depends on the team. Balanced and Semi-Stall opt to run things such as Reflect Type Starmie for hazard control over something like a Defog user in order to preserve their own hazards. In general rapid spin users have seen a pretty good amount of usage, even now that more and more people run Spikes. As far as the Defogless trend goes I think it has to do with the concept of how easy it is to threaten these Defog users now a days. There are very few offensive Defog mons and as such taking advantage of them is much more easy with the trends of powerful cleaners such as Greninja and wallbreakers such as M-Gardevoir. Also these Defogless/non-Hazard Control teams are either 1. Hyper Offense 2. Bulkier Offense with mitigated SR weaknesses. As such the goal of the team is to rely on offensive pressure so that SR damage doesn't pile up. It has to do mostly with teambuilding philosophies honestly and you will usually see these sort of teams from more aggressive players and more aggressive builds.