Follow The Leader [Pre Viability Ranking Discussion!]

[UBERPYRO]

Now this is just my opinion, but if we do followers, then they have to be separated by lead. For example, Mega Pinsir is some sort of ultra god on Lucario teams, essentially an S rank, but its mildly good on Dragonite teams by comparison. So we should either have seperate viability lists for different followers, or have followers with multiple ranks on the thread tagged with what its leader is. It's true that Kyu-B tends to be effective and tends to work on a lot of teams, but that information by itself isn't very useful. It's near useless with some leaders and we wouldn't want someone to be mislead. It's necessary to know the leader. Another alternative is for it to be like OU Sets Viability Rankings Thread, which is essentially what I suggested above but in a slightly different format. Anyway, you get the idea.

 

[AAron2420]

Honestly, I've found that I tend to come back to the overall same set of followers across myriad teams -and I don't just mean Kyurem-Black or stall staples like Chansey/Blissey. Like, Gengar is a good-to-great follower on basically any Leader that provides Shadow Ball and has an even marginally acceptable Special/Status movepool. It's at its best with leaders like Nidoking (Sheer Force Life Orb Focus Blast is an easy 2HKO on Chansey!) but it's basically only not a solid follower if the leader lacks Shadow Ball. A lot of the followers are like that -if a leader meets some fairly basic, minimal conditions, the follower is a good choice, and may be a great choice.

Contrary to my expectations, I haven't found it to be the case that more marginal potential followers really shine with extremely specific leaders while being terrible on most any other leader. Megas are the main exception here, where their own viability on a leader varies hugely based less on "Do you have STABs/recovery for stallmons/other simple requirements" and more on "What all does the team need to patch that the leader patches?" ie Mega Altaria and Mega Gardevoir can be big boons to leaders that lack native Fairy coverage and would really like Fairy coverage to beat specific foes that otherwise trouble their movepool, Mega Sableye is a big help to any stall-y leader that lacks actual hazard removal, Mega Altaria/Pinsir/Glalie are incredibly at ruining a number of offense teams if the leader has Extreme Speed...

But mostly I think it actually kind of works to rank followers in a general sense, rather than providing their ranking as a sub-heading of specific leaders.



I approve of treating Carracosta as a suicide lead. It's a good role for it to fill, given that it's a bit underwhelming as a Pokemon and is really on the team as a leader.



I'd invest in bulk (HP) rather than Speed. Or Special Attack to bolster Ice Beam, maybe.

With no investment and no nature boost, after a Shell Smash Mega Garchomp will outspeed fully invested +Speed Nature Pokemon all the way up to base 150 Speed. Fast Scarves (eg Keldeo) are basically the only reason to consider investing in Speed, and you still don't need max Speed investment to beat the most typical fast Scarves. Investing in bulk would make it less susceptible to priority revengers.



Excadrill is slower than Mega Garchomp, so it's more likely to make sense to invest in Speed, but I would again consider shifting some investment away from Speed.



Again, Landorus-Therian is only a little slower than Mega Garchomp, so investing in Speed is, again, often going to be redundant.



Something to keep in mind is it might make more sense to run Mega Gyarados than Mega Garchomp, probably replace Zen Headbutt for Knock Off if you do -that way you can beat Clefable/Quagsire/Swoobat teams. (Bibarel lacks recovery, so it's not so hot at running Unaware walls)



I'll note that this is part of why I'm recommending bulk over Speed as investment. With like half the team picking up bulk at essentially no sacrifice, priority is less likely to break a 'mon.

Yo thanks for the advice man, I'll see how much speed I exactly need to outspeed what, this was tbh just a general team I made to test the meta that ended up doing well so I figured I'd post it and find out how to get better with it

 

[Fortune]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-417561917

is this a glitch? my charizard's illusion didn't wear off despite being hit. (turn 3)

 

[AquaticPanic]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-417561917

is this a glitch? my charizard's illusion didn't wear off despite being hit. (turn 3)

Maybe it's because of gravity, idk. Illusion always wears off with me.

 

[Tornadus-Therian]

It's because it Mega'd, so it no longer had Illusion, so it never checked to see if it should change back to the normal sprite/name. Idk if this has been tested in game or not, but it could be a glitch and it could work as it should.

 

[AquaticPanic]

It's because it Mega'd, so it no longer had Illusion, so it never checked to see if it should change back to the normal sprite/name. Idk if this has been tested in game or not, but it could be a glitch and it could work as it should.

When I mega evolve my Illusion Pinsir, this doesn't happen. It shows "(Pokemon) has Mega Evolved into Mega Pinsir!" and changes the sprite and everything.

 

[Kingofthesun]

I've been messing around w/ a Latios team and it has been my best team so far

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Ampharos @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Defog
- Recover
- Tailwind

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Steel Wing
- Zen Headbutt
- Waterfall

Roserade @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Steel Wing

Albeit 2 ddancers and specs rose might not be the best options for the team but it sure is fun to surf them heatrans and lando-Ts w/ specs and vastly different coverage and weaknesses help alot

 

[shadoxgamin]

I am very confused. I get that it has to be same moves and abilities, but does it only have to be one move that all the Pokemon must have from the leader, or is it actually ALL moves?

 

[UBERPYRO]

I am very confused. I get that it has to be same moves and abilities, but does it only have to be one move that all the Pokemon must have from the leader, or is it actually ALL moves?

I'm not sure if I fully understand your question, but here goes:
Followers can use any of the leader's moves and only the leader's moves. The followers can use moves that the leader learns but doesn't have in its moveset, and followers can additionally use the ability of the leader that is not selected on the leader.

 

[shadoxgamin]

I'm not sure if I fully understand your question, but here goes:
Followers can use any of the leader's moves and only the leader's moves. The followers can use moves that the leader learns but does have in its moveset, and followers can additionally use the ability of the leader that is not selected on the leader.

Thank you

 

[G-Luke]

Alright guys I think its time to discuss future viability rankings for the metagame. Other than S-Rank, the pokemon are in alphabetical order. I came up with the current Leader S Ranks, but furthur discussion can be used for the others.

Leader Viability Rankings

S-Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic leaders in the Follow The Leader metagame. Their combination of a fantastic movepool, abilities and usefullness in general allows it to lead a large variety of team archtypes or just be extremely good at one. These leaders define the metagame.

S Rank

Dragonite

Clefable

Mew

Sableye

Kecleon

A-Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great leaders in Follow The Leader. These Pokemon's abilities and movepool are good enough to support a variety of team archtypes but certain flaws hold them back from conquering the metagame. (Missing coverage, subpar ability, etc). These Pokemon dominate the metagame.

_______

B-Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are ok leaders in the metagame. These Pokemon's moves and/Or ability has a niche in the metagame, but face a large amount of flaws that hinder its success or are outclassed by higher ranked mons. These Pokemon adapt to the metagame.

_________

C-Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediorce leaders in the metagame. The small niche they have in regards to movepool or ability fail to outway the large flaws that they show individually and as leaders. These Pokemon struggle to adapt to the metagame.
________

D-Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are terrible leaders in Follow The Leader. Their movepools and/or stats fail to support strong team archtypes ir are heavily outclassed by higher ranked mons. Please don't use them.

________


Feel free to start suggesting what Pokemon should full up the ranks.

 

[AquaticPanic]

- Nidos for A or B because Moovepool and Sheer Force
- Maybe Zoroark for C or D because Illusion and both NP and SD (Plus agility)
- Sigilyph for B because Magic Guard+Cosmic Power+Roost+Stored power, and Tinted Leens for sweepers

 

[Shavedbear]

With the viability ranking starting I figure I can help out by submitting my opinions of quite a few lower tier Leaders and the pros/cons each brings to the table. I'll leave out any Leaders who have already been analyzed by InfernapeTropius or Jajoken (and using their formatting) for the sake of new content.

Tyranitar

Tyranitar [A]
Abilities: 2 (Sand Stream, Unnerve)
Recovery: None
Boosting: Dragon Dance, Hone Claws, Iron Defense, Rock Polish
Priority: None
Hazards: Stealth Rock
Hazard Removal: None
Overall Attack Diversity: Very Good
Thoughts: TTar has an amazing mixed movepool and a lot of setup potential. Those 2 redeeming qualities combined with the potential for neverending sand spam make me believe TTar is a very underrated Leader.

Reuniclus

Reuniclus [ B ]
Abilities: 3 (Overcoat, Magic Guard, Regenerator)
Recovery: Recover
Boosting: Acid Armor, Calm Mind, Iron Defense
Priority: None
Hazards: None
Hazard Removal: None
Overall Attack Diversity: Very Good
Thoughts: Reuniclus provides a team with an amazing movepool and 3 outstanding abilities. Magic Guard and Regenerator are amazing, while Overcoat provides you with a niche Spore switch-in if needed.

Volbeat

Volbeat [C]
Abilities: 3 (Illuminate, Swarm, Prankster)
Recovery: Moonlight, Roost
Boosting: Tail Glow
Priority: None
Hazards: None
Hazard Removal: None
Overall Attack Diversity: Average
Thoughts: Volbeat can be used for a very niche Prankster + Tail Glow team. An average moveset and lack of priority, hazards, or hazard removal makes this a very risky Leader.

Togekiss

Togekiss [A]
Abilities: 3 (Hustle, Serene Grace, Super Luck)
Recovery: Morning Sun, Roost, Wish
Boosting: Nasty Plot, Work Up
Priority: Extremespeed
Hazards: None
Hazard Removal: Defog
Overall Attack Diversity: Good
Thoughts: Togekiss is a very well rounded Leader. The only aspect of teambuilding where Togekiss lacks is Hazard setting, but the benefits it brings make up for that flaw. Togekiss is a very solid Leader with the potential for some memey abuse.

Shiftry

Shiftry [ B ]
Abilities: 3 (Chlorophyll, Early Bird, Pickpocket)
Recovery: Synthesis
Boosting: Amnesia, Defense Curl, Growth, Nasty Plot, Swords Dance
Priority: Fake Out, Quick Attack, Sucker Punch
Hazards: None (Leech Seed if you want to consider that a hazard)
Hazard Removal: Defog
Overall Attack Diversity: Good
Thoughts: Lack of hazards and a subpar pool of abilities certainly make Shiftry a flawed Leader. While lacking in certain aspects, Shiftry offers a bounty of setup potential and can offer a lot of offensive pressure to a team it leads.

Cinccino

Cinccino [C]
Abilities: 3 (Cute Charm, Technician, Skill Link)
Recovery: None
Boosting: Calm Mind, Work Up
Priority: None
Hazards: None
Hazard Removal: None
Overall Attack Diversity: Low
Thoughts: Cinccino is a very niche and annoying Leader. A team built behind Cinccino is essentially just Skill Link spam, which can surprisingly be quite effective if used correctly (Hint: Skill Link Archeops Rock Blast). You could attempt to include a technician special attacker on the team, but the choices are meager.

Conkeldurr

Conkeldurr [C]
Abilities: 3 (Guts, Sheer Force, Iron Fist)
Recovery: None
Boosting: Bulk Up, Work Up
Priority: Mach Punch
Hazards: None
Hazard Removal: None
Overall Attack Diversity: Low
Thoughts: Conkeldurr has 3 outstanding abilities to choose from, but a very sparse movepool to back them up. You could build a powerful team of physical attackers off of a Conk lead. Lack of recovery (aside from Drain Punch), Hazards, and Hazard removal make Conk a very niche Leader. I will leave this calc here to support the only plausible special attacker behind Conk imo:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sheer Force Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 390-458 (55.3 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[G-Luke]

Shiftry gets Defog I might add.

But on another note, other than Tyranitar and Togekiss those other leaders are very niche (Cinccino wouldnt get ranked). Reuniclus is kinda sad, as a MG leader its outclassed by Clefable. And is outclassed as a Regen leader by The Slow twins and maybe Tornados.

 

[Shavedbear]

Shiftry gets Defog I might add.

But on another note, other than Tyranitar and Togekiss those other leaders are very niche (Cinccino wouldnt get ranked). Reuniclus is kinda sad, as a MG leader its outclassed by Clefable. And is outclassed as a Regen leader by The Slow twins and maybe Tornados.

Edited to add Defog to Shiftry.

I added Cinccino since I have ran into it on the ladder a few times, dont feel obligated to add that to any Viability ranks. I will defend Reuniclus and say that while it is indeed outclassed by the individual MG/Regen Leaders, it brings a niche that outclasses them in that you can have access to both with essentially the same movepool.

 

[bp scrub]

Corsola for B maybe?
Abilities: Hustle, Regenerator, Natural Cure
Relevant status moves: Calm Mind, Rock Polish, Stealth Rock, Recover, Curse
Offensive moves-
Special: Scald, Ice Beam, Power Gem, Psychic, Earth Power, Tri Attack (Nature Power)
Physical: Double Edge, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Head Smash, Sucker Punch, Icicle Spear, Explosion?

Corsola doesn't have the best coverage but it has enough to cover most weaknesses. Regen + Natural Cure are both super solid on bulkier teams, and while Hustle is kinda risky, the 50% power boost makes mons do absurd damage. Also has reliable recovery and setup moves for both offenses, although curse is somewhat limited.

 

[readytolose]

Mawile is definitely the top A-rank, for sure. As for the other A-ranks, maybe Breloom, the Nidos, and a few others? I'm going to wait until this is more fleshed out, but for now I can say that Mawile is the top A-rank.

 

[Josehaber]

Infernape should be A or B
Abilities: Blaze, Iron Fist
Good Status: Calm Mind, Stealth Rock, Slack Off, Swords Dance, Taunt, Nasty Plot
Physical: Fake Out, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Close Combat, Mach Punch, Earthquake, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, U-Turn
Special: Overheat, Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Vacuum Wave, Gunk Shot

Has good coverage, reliable recovery, priority, but the abilities aren't that good

 

[Shavedbear]

Infernape should be A or B
Abilities: Blaze, Iron Fist
Good Status: Calm Mind, Stealth Rock, Slack Off, Swords Dance, Taunt, Nasty Plot
Physical: Fake Out, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Close Combat, Mach Punch, Earthquake, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, U-Turn
Special: Overheat, Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Vacuum Wave, Gunk Shot

Has good coverage, reliable recovery, priority, but the abilities aren't that good

I would definitely put Infernape as a really solid B. Iron Fist is always a positive on physical attackers, and if Blaze doesn't cut it for your special attackers, you can always fill one of the spots with a mega who retains a beneficial ability. Priority on both sides of the spectrum is a rare asset. The only negative to Infernape is the lack of Hazard Removal, but a couple of fast Taunts can solve that issue.

 

[Spandan]

Luke for A or S rank. It's got a vast move pool which consist of both special and physical moves which are viable. They include Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Espeed, Earthquake, Close Combat, Psychic, and many moar.
Also, is there a VR for followers? Mega Pidgeot is a great follower.

Edit: here is a replay http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/followtheleader-419286058
Nice job copying my team, AquaticPanic :P you used it well

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

I'd like to second nidoking A+. It has a nice movepool, with hazards, strong special attacks, and a few good physical attacks. More importantly, however, it has a great ability, and isn't deadweight- notably, it's a Clefable GSI that doesn't mind Thunder Wave. Quuen would be similarly good, but King is almost always better- there should probably be at least two sub ranks between them.
Lucario is a solid leader, although it definitally isn't S. While it lacks a good ability, it makes of for it with its over abundant priority and boosting options, as well as other common attacks. It can make nearly any non-stall follower work. My opinion is it would fit well anywhere in the A ranks, but that A+ is a better fit.
Breton is excellent- it has a good physical movepool, a decent special one, swords dance and spore. It also has two good abilities in poison heal and technician. Im not sure where it belongs, exactly, but it should be fairly high up.
While Zoroark may look gimmicky, it's ability is top notch for stallbreaking. It also has boosting on both sides as well as the godlike knock off, and gives a lot of Pokemon exactly what they want, most notably Gengar. It is a bit of a one trick pony, but it's a really good trick- somewhere about A- or B+, I should think.
Mawile and Corsola are good leaders as well, but they are a bit lackluster Pokemon themselves, which does hurt. Mawile almost certainly belongs in the A ranks regardless, but Corsola will probably have to settle for B- or thereabouts.
Arcanine is fairly solid, as most extreme speed providers are. It does have two good abilities and reliable recovery, which might make up for the lack of hazard removal and boosting. It can definitally provide a nice balance build- Intimidate Hippowdon and FF Skarmory, for instance, are great pairs, especially with will o wisp, while pin sire can sweep with extreme speed.

Additionally, I think the S Rank itself is a bit over large- Clefable, Dragonite, and Kecleon belong there, but are mew and Sableye really that amazing? Don't get me wrong, they are solid picks, but they seem to fit A+ more than S.

 

[hatchegg]

It doesn't work for me, it says my first pokemon can't have the moves or abilities my other pokemon have

 

[jamashawalker]

Additionally, I think the S Rank itself is a bit over large- Clefable, Dragonite, and Kecleon belong there, but are mew and Sableye really that amazing? Don't get me wrong, they are solid picks, but they seem to fit A+ more than S.

Mew's movepool to be almost anything is outstanding, making it the most versatile Leader in this tier, making nearly any follower just as deadly.

Abilities: Synchronize
Recovery: Roost+Cleric
Boosting: Rock Polish, Amnesia, Sword Dance, Nasty Plot, Iron Defense, Calm Mind, Bulk Up (ALOT!!!)
Priority: Sucker Punch, Vacuum Wave, Fake out
Hazards: Stealth Rock
Hazard Removal: Defog
Overall Attack Diversity: Top
Thoughts: Best movepool diversity, creates some of the best sets. Will-O-Wisp beats alot of physical attackers, Hazards+ Hazard control, Recovery, it can check off everything on the list with more to offer than majority of the leaders. Megas can also be used along side Mew which is something alot of other leaders can't have.


Sabeleye...Annoying, when built properly it can beat the majority of this tier. But very passive. One little hax can screw this playstyle. S tier...I'm with you, maybe not. A+ for sure.

 

[readytolose]

Additionally, I think the S Rank itself is a bit over large- Clefable, Dragonite, and Kecleon belong there, but are mew and Sableye really that amazing? Don't get me wrong, they are solid picks, but they seem to fit A+ more than S.

I'd argue that Mew is definitely S-Rank. It's basically the most versatile leader and has the most options available to it, and it basically completely outclasses a lot of other potential leaders by virtue of movepool alone. Plus, Mew itself is good in this metagame. It can stallbreak defensive members of Clefable teams, but I think one of the best aspects of it is that it's really good against Dragonite teams. Dragonite doesn't have any strong moves that can hit Mew super effectively. No Shadow Ball, no Knock Off, no Sucker Punch, no U-turn.... and Mew can just Taunt and burn all of Dragonite's setup sweepers, although it has to watch out for Lum Berry. By virtue of matchup alone it has a very redeeming factor.....

Sableye is less good, cause it's a lot more matchup based than the others, but it's basically hell on earth if you don't predict correctly. With Magic Bounce and Prankster Taunt on possibly any pokemon, it basically invalidates status moves, hazards, and setup, and basically reduces you to attacking blindly. When you're playing against Sableye, a lot of the time it relies on making a correct prediction so you can get hazards up. Sableye is pretty one-dimensional, but a lot of the time, all you can do against it is force switches. And even then, Sableye has the movepool to possibly support some offensive pokemon too, with Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, Sucker Punch, etc..... but I've never really seen anyone use that, cause 90% of the time it's the sample team. I'd say it's definitely worthy of S-rank, though.

Quuen would be similarly good, but King is almost always better- there should probably be at least two sub ranks between them.

I disagree with this notion. The viability rankings are to gauge a Pokemon's effectiveness as a leader primarily, and the actual viability of the Pokemon themselves should be weighted less heavily. In terms of movepool, they are basically identical, and so I'd rank them in the same sub-rank, or maybe one sub-rank between them maximum.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Mew's movepool to be almost anything is outstanding, making it the most versatile Leader in this tier, making nearly any follower just as deadly.

Abilities: Synchronize
Recovery: Roost+Cleric
Boosting: Rock Polish, Amnesia, Sword Dance, Nasty Plot, Iron Defense, Calm Mind, Bulk Up (ALOT!!!)
Priority: Sucker Punch, Vacuum Wave, Fake out
Hazards: Stealth Rock
Hazard Removal: Defog
Overall Attack Diversity: Top
Thoughts: Best movepool diversity, creates some of the best sets. Will-O-Wisp beats alot of physical attackers, Hazards+ Hazard control, Recovery, it can check off everything on the list with more to offer than majority of the leaders. Megas can also be used along side Mew which is something alot of other leaders can't have.


Sabeleye...Annoying, when built properly it can beat the majority of this tier. But very passive. One little hax can screw this playstyle. S tier...I'm with you, maybe not. A+ for sure.

I'd argue that Mew is definitely S-Rank. It's basically the most versatile leader and has the most options available to it, and it basically completely outclasses a lot of other potential leaders by virtue of movepool alone. Plus, Mew itself is good in this metagame. It can stallbreak defensive members of Clefable teams, but I think one of the best aspects of it is that it's really good against Dragonite teams. Dragonite doesn't have any strong moves that can hit Mew super effectively. No Shadow Ball, no Knock Off, no Sucker Punch, no U-turn.... and Mew can just Taunt and burn all of Dragonite's setup sweepers, although it has to watch out for Lum Berry. By virtue of matchup alone it has a very redeeming factor.....

Sableye is less good, cause it's a lot more matchup based than the others, but it's basically hell on earth if you don't predict correctly. With Magic Bounce and Prankster Taunt on possibly any pokemon, it basically invalidates status moves, hazards, and setup, and basically reduces you to attacking blindly. When you're playing against Sableye, a lot of the time it relies on making a correct prediction so you can get hazards up. Sableye is pretty one-dimensional, but a lot of the time, all you can do against it is force switches. And even then, Sableye has the movepool to possibly support some offensive pokemon too, with Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, Sucker Punch, etc..... but I've never really seen anyone use that, cause 90% of the time it's the sample team. I'd say it's definitely worthy of S-rank, though.




I disagree with this notion. The viability rankings are to gauge a Pokemon's effectiveness as a leader primarily, and the actual viability of the Pokemon themselves should be weighted less heavily. In terms of movepool, they are basically identical, and so I'd rank them in the same sub-rank, or maybe one sub-rank between them maximum.

Responding to both, as they almost say the same thing:
For all its versatility, mew is somewhat underwhelming. A lack of an ability is huge, and while the movepool is great any given role is often done better,maybe it at the expense of the other team members. Compared to Kecleon, it has... Defog, SD, and some physical moves. Good, but not enough to make up for the lack of protean. For stall teams, Clefable or Sableye does better 90% of the time, and Clefable is the best balance leader, period. Basically, it only helps your offensive physical boosting attackers... and hazard removal. Don't get me wrong, that's very nice, but it doesn't, to me, scream S-Rank.

Sableye is a bit of a grey zone, IMO- it's unquestionably the best stall leader, with only Clefable coming close. However, it's also somewhat one-dimensional, and Sableye pretty much has to be your mega so you can block hazards. From team preview you know what it's going to do, with maybe some minor movepool variations, and if you carry lums/magic bounce you pretty much win. Sure, it has a lot of toys (Koff, Foul Play, Willowisp, Taunt, snarl), but it's a very narrow archetype. Again, it's unquestionably good, but it doesn't scream S-Rank.

They actually aren't identical, as nidoking has one extra move. That, plus its better stats, means that almost any time you'd use nidoqueen, nidoking is better. Only the fact that it can potentially make a bulky set, if for whatever reason that is absolutely neccesary, is why it should be ranked at all.
Realistically, you should never use queen, even if it isn't bad. It's like Blissey in BH, only more so.