[Emerald] Battle Factory is just wrong.

First things first, I apologize if this isn't the apropiate thread to discuss this matter, I don't post much and when I do its always on official topics, but after using the Search option I think this is the place to do so.

Some days ago, I decided to restart Pokémon Emerald. The last time I put myself seriously into the game was 2005, when I was a 12yo. Back in the day, I had 0 knowledge about Pokémon mechanics. I knew the types. That's all. It wasn't until DPPl that I learned about IVs, EVs, the meaning of setup moves, and all the subsequent and mandatory things that came with that, like synergy, cores, functions, the value of natures and held items, etcetera. I'm no Smogon Champion, but I've played competitive mons since DP and elaborated dozens of guides regarding breeding and team composition in generations IV and V. I tell you this to put some background in context and to say that, as most of you, I've a far, far greater knowledge about the game than any of its facilities should expect from me.

And that's precisely the problem. After having achieved all 200 streaks in older Pokémon Games (from Gen IV to Gen VII), I'm feeling unable to get to the Gold Symbol of Emerald Battle Factory. And the worst thing is: it has nothing to do with my decissions or my knowledge, so I can't help it. Everytime I've lost, and I want to emphatize this, everytime (I've tracked them), has been due to a combination of Confuse Ray, Bright Powder, Double Team or Attract. And theres nothing that I could've done to prevent it from happening (detailed examples incoming). I would share with you the recordings I made during my attempts, but I just didn't feel like so, because every new Hax Inferno was inmediatly replaced with the next.

Whats the difference between this hax and, say, other Battle Facilities hax? The crystal clear intentionality. Due to the lack of III Gen Movepool and item pool, a lot, and I mean, a lot of the Pokémon run Bright Powder, Double Team, Attract or Confuse Ray (+ Hypnosis, I forgot about this one). Meaning there's virtually no diference between a Jynx and a Electrode, or a Gengar, or a Victreebel. Their stats, their Speed Tier, even their typings; all that info is rendered useless because, in the end, they achieve their victory by using the same "strategy": those moves.

As a brief example. One time I had a team composed of Swampert, Typhlosion and I don't remember rn the last member. I opened the battle with Swampert and my rival had Meganium on their side. There was no way I would stay in the field, first because my 2 offensive moves where Surf and EQ, second because it could easily OHKO me with Giga Drain or some shit like that, third because if it was a hax set, staying would imply letting him use Double Team for free, and not even 3 or 4 criticals would've attained the KO. So, seeing as Meganium has no coverage whatsoever, my gameplan was to simply switch into Modest Typhlosion and put it to rest with Flamethrower. It got me with Grass Whistle (55%) in the switch-in, and put my Typhlosion to sleep. Then, it started using Double Team and seeded me. As my HP was getting low, I burnt all the sleep turns and tried a Flamethrower to no success. By this point, it was behind a substitute. My only option was to use Aerial Ace to bypass this madness, which allowed me to break the Sub, but did 0 damage due to the combination of the Meganium Leftovers + Leech Seed recovery. I started to stall him switching between my mons, and it kept using Grass Whistle. Whenever it leech seeded one of my mons, I just switched out to stall its 10 PP. By the time it ran out of Leech Seed, my mons were in bad health (12.5% damage every time to one of my mons, also no leech seed missed), and I burnt all of my sleep turns in my team. After, like, 10 minutes of fighting through Substitute, Grass Whistle and Leftys recovery, I barely managed to kill Meganium with my Aerial Ace PP running at 6), then, my Typhlosion was sack to their Flygon, for my Swampert had no longer the HP to withstand the double EQ, and if it wasn't enough, it crits me with it.

All of that, happened because I decided to switch my Typhlosion into a fucking Meganium and got hit by Grass Whistle on the switch. I've an infinite amount of similar examples. Running into Hypnosis Gengar, running into Double Team Snorlax, running into Umbreon. Just to put you into perspective, a set like this:



Can wipe your team with no effort, and there's no viable, secure way to avoid it. It goes like this: you don't know what your rival is going to lead with, your lead mon is unable to OHKO this Umbreon, it uses Confuse Ray/Double Team > GG. Automatic GG. And it feels so wrong, because no other Battle Facility is so, so clear in its intentionality. Or, say, you kill the first mon, and then the opponent second mon is something fast with Double Team, or something slow but bulky with Bright Powder + Confuse Ray. Again, GG. There's nothing you can do to improve. Nothing you can do to avoid this series of events. It happens, and it happens constantly because a lot of the sets are running Bright Powder, Double Team, Confuse Ray or Attract. Every battle is a coin flip between you getting an opponent with these moves or not. If not, you play a normal battle in which your 3 Pokémon members matter; if yes, you've probably lost already.

I know every Battle Tower/Frontier has h4x, but this one, in special, is so bad designed in this gen.
 
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Guess Meganium isn't the WOAT Starter after all... :psysly:

In all seriousness though, you'll need some adjustments in your strategy. With all these mons spamming Double Team, the first thing that comes to my mind is: "Aerial Ace might be weak af, but at least it hits."

Slap that into something that can actually make it hurt like say, Salamence, or have a solid anchor like a RestTalk Skarmory to make sure you at least have an answer to this kind of hax.

Edit: Oh lol, it's the Factory. Good luck.
 
yeah, it took me years to beat the entire Emerald Battle Frontier. It's because I got lucky with breeding a 2*31 IV Adamant Tauros, I was able to breed over time some useful Pokemon to take over the facilities.
To beat Anabel, I softresetted the awful Latias in Saphire, because I couldn't be bothered restarting Emerald again where I have the most amount of Pokemon and likely won't be able to get my hands of some.

I went the first few rounds before the last Anabel Fight with Choice Band Adamant Tauros, Leftovers Adamant Metagross and Lum Berry Timid Latias.
And Latias was just there so it can set up on Milotic etc before they can sweep it away. I can't imagine how it would be possible to beat it without the Latias. The last round I switched Tauros out for a Gengar simply because Destiny Bond.

Some of the fights really where nothing but me swapping in and out the Pokemon. Like whenever a stupid Chansey appeared that somehow survived Super Effective Attacks from Metagross and does Double Team. I just try to stall out their PP because after 5 or 6 rounds, it's not worth the risk to end battles quick.
Pokemon like Gengar, Starmie, Metagross and Nidoking where also pretty useful against the Battle Seviper thingy, but it still requires tons of luck. In cases like this I feel IVs can really change things up. The right nature may be nice, but you can't rely on them.
And it does feel cheap that some of the most viable Pokemon are hard to reset legendaries or Pokemon you have to trade over.
 
Here's the thing.

Due to Gen III unique mechanics, Struggle can miss and its recoil damage is based on the damage dealt to the target. This by itself is a given to impossible scenarios in next gens, like endless battles without resorting to a very niche strategy. If a Shuckle, for example, running a set of Toxic, Double Team, Substitute and Rest, mets your poison inmunity mon (this happened to me one time I had Snorlax and Gengar, both of them inmune to poisoning), after you have switched out enough times, it will start using Struggle, but Struggle will do little to no damage, meaning its leftovers recovery exceeds its recoil damage. By the time, your mons will run out of PP, because after 6 Double Teams, if the game decides that its time to put you to rest, you'll hit 1 move every 10 turns (traslation: every 10 PP). After you've ran out of offensive moves, you'll experiment a slow and painful death at the hands of Struggle Shuckle.
 
The Factory is the facility where I spent the most time for years, because I didn't know how to properly train competitive mons. So much time practicing there, not even reaching to 30 wins, but at least I got used to many of the sets there.

So when I finally decided to get all golden symbols, I took on the factory first and after a few failed attempts I did it! Again, luck plays a major factor there, a bad starting team can cost you the victory asap (physical Latias lol).

Currently, I am suffering with the Sinnoh Factory. This forsaken place is far worse than Hoenn's factory, you need 49 victories instead of 42 (extra infuriating since I lost many times past the 42 mark), and you still need to beat Thorton at 21 for every retry, compared to Noland who disappears until the gold symbol match. What's worse is that I've been trying since mid 2020 and I haven't made any progress with the frontier...
 
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The Factory is the facility where I spent the most time for years, because I didn't know how to properly train competitive mons. So much time practicing there, not even reaching to 30 wins, but at least I got used to many of the sets there.

So when I finally decided to get all golden symbols, I took on the factory first and after a few failed attempts I did it! Again, luck plays a major factor there, a bad starting team can cost you the victory asap (physical Latias lol).

Currently, I am suffering with the Sinnoh Factory. This forsaken place is far worse than Hoenn's factory, you need 49 victories instead of 42 (extra infuriating since I lost many times past the 42 mark), and you still need to beat Thorton at 21 for every retry, compared to Norman who disappears until the gold symbol match. What's worse is that I've been trying since mid 2020 and I haven't made any progress with the frontier...
There was this great Sinnoh Factory guide around here... Let me see if I can find who linked it to me, brb.

Edit: Gottem!

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/swap-drop-and-roll-a-satisfactory-pokemon-guide.3451171/
 

I'll probably never again return to this place. Altho I've had no serious problems with older generations Frontiers -namely IV, the last one, lol- (still susceptible to hax, but that is a given), no one has displayed, to my knowledge, an array of sets so purely and utterly designed to h4x you to the death as this shitty factory. The following claims are not entirely related to in-game mechanics -for those, you have in-depth topics linked above-, but rather to my experience and how I think the game reacts to certain decisions.

The first thing you'll notice is that the game has some kind of inner h4x metter, one that grows bigger the further you go, and this is kind of demonstrable. During the first 7 trainers (from 0 to 7), not only it's almost impossible to get haxed, but you'll have abnormal luck. Try getting paralized + infatuated, for example, your Pokémon will attack through almost everytime. This encourages an style of battling where hitting is more important than switching or even have a proper synergy. The thing is, if your options are not very good, don't even try to focus on typing coverage. Just be careful that you don't lose to a random set or type in specific and get all the good shit you can, because certain mons are so absurdly broken when put into comparison (Heracross is a monster, the Brave version of Pert altho Pets are monsters in general, the good Latios set, Surf Milo and Surf Beam Vapo, Quick Claw Rhydon, even Donphan is extremely good, Marowak OHKOs a lot of things, and sets like the Leech Seed + Toxic Ludicolo and Curse Toxic Fly Skarmory, amongst some others) that not getting them is worse than getting them and destroying your team synergy. Don't think too much about synergy, in fact, think about sets that can individually win you battles, while having at least 1 direct switch-in to his worst counter mon. For example, if you have said set of Skarmory, which can get rid of 90% of the opposing mons, just keep an answer to fire/electric type attacks, and also to other cursers or even psych up users. Don't switch-in as if you were playing against a real player. Unlike in older generations, the game constantly does random shit, specially during the first rounds. You'd lead with Heracross and your opponent with Fearow, and he'd choose Double Edge instead of Drill Peck against your Jolteon just because potato. This becomes even more problematic after mons get better and EQ is spammed in a lot of things. Mons with Toxic, Curse, Leech Seed or even Trick (there's a solid set of Psychic T-bolt Trick CB Mr. Mime) are extremely valuable.

Most of the times you'll lose to a bad start pool of mons. There's nothing you can do about it. If your first 6 mons are somewhat weak and you meet high BST mons like Latios or just insanely good mons like Hera, you are done for. It's a shame you manage to get to round 5 and then you lose because the opponent team is too much to handle in terms of raw stats, but it'll happen constantly until you get lucky in the final rounds. There's also the continuum fear to shit sets (but very effective indeed in the hands of the AI) like Fissure + Sheer Cold Walrein or Lapras. Mons that will live 3 to 4 turns thanks to their bulkiness, usually running Quick Claw and capable of entering your streak in an instant with 2 or 3 Sheer Cold. There's no thing you can do avoid this, just accept it. A lot of mons are running Confuse Ray, Attract or Bright Powder. Try not to switch until completely necessary and keep spamming until luck comes your way (or not). You'll see a lot of unfortunate things, like mons that competitively have no means of defeating yours getting away with it because the game makes you miss everything, crits you, puts you in maximum sleep turns, etcetera, etcetera. If you manage to get a good starting team, you are good to go, but for that to happen you also need to confront a clear round instead of a haxy one. This is an extremely bad design example that should be revamped in a better manner in actual Pokémon generations, because, altho they keep haxing you, they have improved a lot in the making of actual solid sets that don't rely constantly on putting random Bright Powder + hax% shits in every fat / speedy mon.
 
Did you beat the factory as of right now? Do you have tips?
If you're looking for tips, try the discussion thread for the gen 3 frontier. As for what I can offer, a lot has happened since I got the gold symbol for the factory, but I remember getting a lot of use out of Leech Seed. The healing is obviously useful in drawn-out situations, and I found it easier to make stick than poison since only one type is immune (and it's a type with a lot of weaknesses) and it isn't cancelled by Rest.
 

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