VGC Double Primal Core VGC Team. Feedback?

[Mr. Duff]

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Lax Nature
- Protect
- Lava Plume
- Rock Slide
- Precipice Blades

Primal #1. Pretty standard double hitting set + Protect, for the Lilligant combo. Not much else to say here

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Origin Pulse
- Blizzard
- Thunder

Primal #2. Another double hitting set + Thunder. The protect is for the Ludicolo combo. Similar to Groudon really.

Ludicolo @ Mental Herb
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teeter Dance
- Giga Drain
- Icy Wind
- Scald

JOSE MY MAN. The aim of this set is to team with Kyogre. The rain allows the swift swim boost to take place, and while kyogre protects, ludicolo uses teeter dance. Giga drain for HP recovery, Icy wind for slowdown, and scald for water STAB.

Lilligant (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Teeter Dance
- Aromatherapy
- Helping Hand

Lilligant works the same way as Ludicolo. Groudon's sun activates Lilligant's Chlorophyll, and while Groudon protects, Lilligant teeter dances. Some of groudon's attacks can become pretty devastating with the helping hand boost. Focus sash because Talonflame OHKOs with STAB Brave Bird.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Protect
- Focus Blast

This thing has saved my butt a couple of times. It's powerful Pixilate and STAB moves can really pivot a game. An all offensive set with Protect.

Scrafty @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Poison Jab

I'm not sure about this guy, but I've got him there for intimidate and physical attacking.

Feedback? I'm not too sure about Scrafty or the primal gimmick. Let me know what you think :)

 

[RebornFX]

Cool team, I will say however that some of the moveset choices are rather questionable. For example, Blizzard on Kyogre, a Lax Groudon (with Lava Plume) and the Lilligant moveset all seem pretty strange. Here are some changes I would recommend.

With Groudon being mixed, I see why you would be reluctant to reduce either of its attack stats, but your current spread just seems inefficient and without any offensive investment Groudon fails to take many important KOs. This can be fixed by running a -Speed nature. This also gives you the option of running a Trick Room mode with the right support.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Precipice Blades
- Earth Power
- Eruption
- Protect

Here's a pretty simple set. I opted for Earth Power to hit opposing Groudon on its weaker defensive side, often being able to OHKO after some chip damage. I chose Eruption over Lava Plume since with support from Lilligant it will often be possible to hit an Eruption before taking any damage. Honestly the moveset and spread are pretty flexible and I would encourage you playing with it and adjusting it after seeing what the team struggles with.

I recommend using a more bulky Kyogre spread, since it can afford to lose some of its Sp.Atk in order to hit certain defensive benchmarks. Here's a potential set.

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 156 Def / 108 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect

This spread survives a LO Dragon Ascent from Mega Rayquaza and an Adamant Power Whip from Ferrothorn, as well as avoids the 2HKO from Jolly Mega Kang's Double Edge. Water Spout is to make Kyogre more of a threat under TW, as well as being a more reliable spread move than Origin Pulse. Scald is great for securing KOs after being weakened. Ice beam is preferred over Blizzard as after spread damage is considered it hits the particular Pokemon it is there to hit (being Mega Ray and Mega Mence) harder, as well as being more accurate.

Hide

252 Atk Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 156 Def Primal Kyogre: 76-91 (36.8 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 244 HP / 156 Def Primal Kyogre: 157-187 (76.2 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 244 HP / 156 Def Primal Kyogre: 168-198 (81.5 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Lilligant is a pretty cool mon, but I feel your current set doesn't take advantage of its main supportive draws, being a fast Sleep Powder and After You.

Lilligant @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Sleep Powder
- After You
- Protect

After You is a cool move to use with Primal Groudon, since it makes Groudon move directly after Lilligant and under the sun this most likely means Groudon will be moving first. Sleep Powder is just a great (though not reliable) form of support. Leaf Storm is there to deal a nice chunk to Kyogre. I would suggest using protect, since Lilligant can often be Fake Out bait and breaking your sash isn't fun. You could try Worry seed or Helping Hand if you would like, just see what works best for you. Keep in mind that Lilligant is very much susceptible to prankster Taunts.

Now, for actual changes to the team members. First off, with Double Primal I love pairing it with Bronzong. I would replace replacing Ludicolo with Bronzong, since it provides the team with arguably a better form of speed control than Icy Wind and your Ludicolo doesn't really provide the team with too much else considering it doesn't have Fake Out.

Bronzong @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gravity
- Skill Swap
- Gyro Ball

Bronzong provides you with a TR option, allowing for your Groudon to be pretty fast under TR. It also provides the team with Gravity support, allowing for Precipice Blades to hit 100% of the time, as well as flying/Levitating targets. Skill Swap support is also great for winning the weather war with either Groudon or Kyogre. Gyro Ball helps with Xerneas, though I supposed you could use Hypnosis if you want to be more reliant on having Gravity up, effectively functioning as an Amoonguss under Trick Room (without Redirection support). The spread allows bronzong to OHKO a +2 speed Xerneas with Gyro Ball, with the rest in Sp.Def.

Next I would recommend replacing M-Gardevoir. Gardevoir is unfortunately not particularly viable in this meta. It is outclassed in every way by Xerneas, while taking up a Mega Slot. I would recommend replacing it with Mega Mawile.

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Mega Mawile provides the team with some much needed brute offense, as well as complementing the TR option well. It also provides the team with Intimidate, something which after my next suggestion would be much appreciated. The spread and moveset are pretty standard, however if you would prefer to use an Adamant nature with full speed ivs and maybe some investment for use in both TR and TW option that might work too.

Finally, I would recommend swapping Scrafty for Crobat. With so many threats like Xerneas, Mega Mence, Mega Ray, Ho-Oh, Yveltal and just powerful attackers like the Primals, Scrafty really just doesn't function too well in the meta. Crobat on the other hand can work great.

Crobat @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 236 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Super Fang
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Quick Guard

Crobat provides the team with a TW option, as well as a counter to Smeargle which can always be annoying to deal with. It cannot be flinched, meaning the only ways of preventing its TW is to outright OHKO it before it can move or prankster Taunt it. I recommend Lum Berry on this and Mental Herb on Bronzong, simply because of Crobat's matchup against Smeargle, but if you find the other way around more effective then go ahead. Super Fang can be great for softening up enemies, allowing for another member to pick up the KO. Quick Guard can be used to prevent prankster Taunt/status, as well as Fake Out and priority Sucker Punches/Extremespeeds.

Hopefully I could help. Here's the importable with all the changes.

Hide

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Precipice Blades
- Earth Power
- Eruption
- Protect

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 156 Def / 108 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Bronzong @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gravity
- Skill Swap
- Gyro Ball

Lilligant @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Sleep Powder
- After You
- Protect

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Crobat @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 236 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Super Fang
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Quick Guard

tldr

Change sets for:

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[Mr. Duff]

Thanks heaps! As reluctant as I am to drop my Ludicolo and Lilligant sets, I'm willing to give this team a try :) It looks very thought out, thank you for your feedback :D

 

[Mr. Duff]

Upon using the team for a bit, I find Kyogre a bit redundant, as there's no combos with him, and not much I can do with him at all. What would be the best mon to run over Kyogre?

 

[Draconid997]

Upon using the team for a bit, I find Kyogre a bit redundant, as there's no combos with him, and not much I can do with him at all. What would be the best mon to run over Kyogre?

If you want to capitalise on your sun mode, then Ho-Oh would be a good choice, although i would recommend going over teambuilding to suit this change (the framework for ho-oh groudon would be a good place to start: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-16-teambuilding-frameworks.3564141/)
Kyogre's trick room is still incredibly powerful against stuff like big 6, so i would suggest that you keep experimenting with it whilst trying out other archetypes. Other archtypes based around groudon include groudon+yveltal which is amazing imo, also if you want to keep a similar theme to your own team then palkia is a nice pick over kyogre as it allows for a trick room setup. Joohwan Kim is famous for using groudon kyurem-w with after you and gravity support which i think you may enjoy (feel free to ask for sample sets etc). My main advice would be to build teams around each groudon-based archetype using the frameworks and see what you like most :)
Personally i think you may enjoy the kyurem white / groudon + gravity archtype the most as this suits your offensive combo like playstyle

 

[Mr. Duff]

If you want to capitalise on your sun mode, then Ho-Oh would be a good choice, although i would recommend going over teambuilding to suit this change (the framework for ho-oh groudon would be a good place to start: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-16-teambuilding-frameworks.3564141/)
Kyogre's trick room is still incredibly powerful against stuff like big 6, so i would suggest that you keep experimenting with it whilst trying out other archetypes. Other archtypes based around groudon include groudon+yveltal which is amazing imo, also if you want to keep a similar theme to your own team then palkia is a nice pick over kyogre as it allows for a trick room setup. Joohwan Kim is famous for using groudon kyurem-w with after you and gravity support which i think you may enjoy (feel free to ask for sample sets etc). My main advice would be to build teams around each groudon-based archetype using the frameworks and see what you like most :)
Personally i think you may enjoy the kyurem white / groudon + gravity archtype the most as this suits your offensive combo like playstyle

I was thinking Reshiram? Perhaps?

 

[Draconid997]

I was thinking Reshiram? Perhaps?

I dont think reshiram has seen much usage this year, mostly because it's outclassed by most other restricted mons, but yeah feel free to have a go with it :)
Would need a lot of support vs rayogre, double primal etc for the supporting cast at first glance, without being too weak to kyurem w or yveltal :/ i'll have a think of some possible partners tomorrow, although i'm away at the weekend so i'll probably get back to you on sunday. Keep experimenting man :)
GradeAGarchomp Steven Stone do you have any ideas for a team with reshiram?

Also on a side note i don't think it would be wise to fill up this thread with teambuilding ideas, if you want to have a full discussion about teambuilding with your choice of archetype i think the best thing to do would be to add RebornFX (if you're okay with this) and i to a pm/conversation so that we can help you out in greater depth :)