Charmeleon (NU Analysis)

Oglemi

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http://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/charmeleon

[Overview]

Charmeleon's niche in the NU tier is being the third fastest Fire-type available, sitting just under Ponyta and Magby, while sporting all-around better stats than either of those two. However, it's really one-dimensional, as it really shouldn't be doing anything other than its standard special attacking set. That said, it isn't exactly easy to wall, which makes it a good fit on heavy offense teams that want a hard-hitting Fire-type that's quite a bit faster than Flareon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Overheat
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Dragon Claw / Rock Slide
item: Leftovers / Charcoal
ability: Blaze
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Fire Blast is going to be the main STAB move Charmeleon will be using, with Overheat available in the second slot as a secondary STAB nuke that can force some targets like Lickitung to immediately heal and give Charmeleon a safe switch out. To demonstrate a situation where Overheat can come in handy: with a Modest nature, Charmeleon will always OHKO max HP Glalie with Fire Blast, but with a Timid nature, that drops to about a 50% chance, while Overheat stays at a 100% chance to OHKO. So, depending on the nature choice and the target, having both Fire Blast and Overheat available is nice to do what Charmeleon wants to—which is blow stuff away.

Hidden Power Grass shreds apart the Rock- and Water-types that would otherwise be able to switch into Charmeleon's Fire-type attacks, notably easily 2HKOing Whiscash. Dragon Claw fills out the last slot as a great super effective hit on Shelgon, preventing it from using Charmeleon as setup bait, as well as getting a decent neutral hit on Flareon and other Fire-types. Rock Slide is a good alternative that deals significantly more damage to Flareon even with a -Atk nature at the cost of missing out on Shelgon and the rare Dragonair. The power difference between the two moves on other Fire-type targets is pretty negligible.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Modest gives Charmeleon the power it needs, such as OHKOing 252 / 252+ Roselia with Fire Blast, whereas Timid can allow Charmeleon to outrun and 2HKO Jolly Hitmonchan and prevent it from switching into Charmeleon, which is highly desirable on the kind of heavy offense team you would typically want to use Charmeleon on. Charcoal boosts the power of Charmeleon's Fire-type moves even more, which works best when using a Timid nature. Charmeleon's available special movepool is pretty barren apart from the given moves above. Flamethrower is there as a guaranteed safe move and is usable over Overheat, but the drop in power is pretty significant. Hidden Power Water is usable as a super effective hit on Rock- and Fire-types, but Charmeleon then has almost no way of combating Water-types, making it easy setup prey for dangerous threats like Huntail. Finally, Toxic is always available to cripple Flareon and other special walls in the long run.

Flareon and Magcargo give this set a hard time even if you choose to run Rock Slide, making your own Water- and Rock-types like Seadra and Relicanth good teammates. Kecleon completely walls this set, meaning Hitmonchan is a great teammate to bust through it as well as Lickitung and Wigglytuff, which can otherwise stomach a couple hits from Charmeleon. Spikes support is amazing with this set, as all of Charmeleon's checks are grounded, making Cacturne and Roselia fantastic teammates as well.

[Other Options]

Charmeleon actually has interesting setup options in its movepool, but it's rather hard to use them properly, and they are all ultimately done better by Pokemon like Vigoroth. However, the one move that really stands out in Charmeleon's movepool is Belly Drum, which can be super dangerous under the right circumstances, as Charmeleon is fast and threatening enough to guarantee itself a Substitute in most situations and begin setting up. With a moveset of Belly Drum / Substitute / Return / Rock Slide while holding a Salac Berry, Charmeleon could prove to be pretty threatening even without any physical STAB attacks. Unfortunately, even at +6, Charmeleon will lose to physical stalwarts like Relicanth, which can still avoid the 2HKO from Rock Slide or Return and can easily OHKO back. For the same reasons, a Swords Dance or SubPunch set can do some damage under the right circumstances but require way too much support to pull off properly and are stopped cold by popular physical walls.

Finally, Sunny Day is an option to boost Charmeleon's Fire power and help support Chlorophyll sweepers like Bellossom. Under sun, Charmeleon has a really good chance to OHKO Hitmonchan with Overheat, which is guaranteed with a layer of Spikes, and Charmeleon even has a small chance to 2HKO 252 / 252+ Dewgong with Fire Blast. Unfortunately, Charmeleon lacks Solar Beam or anything else to benefit from the sun, but it also comes with the benefit of weakening Water-type attacks directed its way.

[Checks and Counters]

Kecleon is an almost complete stop to any special Charmeleon set and can proceed to either paralyze it with Thunder Wave and make Charmeleon useless or simply 2HKO it with Return. Defensive Flareon and Magcargo are the next best stops to any special Charmeleon set, as they fear nothing it can throw at them apart from Rock Slide or Toxic. They probably can't do much in return, but they will ultimately outlast Charmeleon. Wailord, Pelipper, and other Water-types that can avoid the 4x hit from Hidden Power Grass are other really good switch-ins to Charmeleon and can easily OHKO it with their STAB Water-type moves. Most of the Pokemon that can outspeed Charmeleon can also threaten it, including Pidgeot, Murkrow, Plusle, and Haunter. Finally, Sudowoodo can just barely avoid the 2HKO from Fire Blast + Hidden Power Grass and proceed to OHKO Charmeleon with its STAB move.
 
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name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Hidden Power Ghost / Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Fire Blast / Brick Break / Double-Edge
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant/Naughty
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA

name: Choice Band
move 1: Rock Slide
move 2: Hidden Power Ghost / Hidden Power Ground
move 3: Brick Break / Double-Edge
move 4: Overheat
item: Choice Band
nature: Naughty/Hasty
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
 
Last edited:
Drum Kit

Charmeleon @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 80 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Rock Slide
- Brick Break / Hp Ground

172 Hp evs puts health at a number divisible by 4. 80 spe allows you to outspeed Raticate after a salac boost. Send in vs opponent you can out scare out or set up on, use sub then drum, and laugh as they try to stop you.
 

lotiasite

undedgy
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
gp 1/2
[Overview]

Charmeleon's niche in the NU tier is being the 3rd third fastest Fire-type available, sitting just under Ponyta and Magby, while sporting all-around better stats than either of those two. However, it's really one-dimensional, as it really shouldn't be doing anything other than its standard special attacking set. That said, it isn't exactly easy to wall, which makes it a good fit on heavy hyper (is this what you mean?) offense teams that want a hard-hitting Fire-type that's quite a bit faster than Flareon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Overheat
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Dragon Claw / Rock Slide
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Fire Blast is going to be the main STAB move Charmeleon will be using, with Overheat available in the second slot as a secondary STAB nuke that can force some targets like Lickitung to immediately heal and give Charmeleon a safe switch out. To demonstrate a situation where Overheat can come in handy: with a Modest nature, Charmeleon will always OHKO 252 maximum HP Glalie with Fire Blast, but with a Timid nature, (AC) that drops to about a 50% chance, (AC) while Overheat stays at a 100% chance to OHKO. So, depending on the nature choice and the target, having both Fire Blast and Overheat available is nice to do what Charmeleon wants to—which is blow stuff away.

Hidden Power Grass shreds apart the Rock- and Water-types that would otherwise be able to switch into Charmeleon's Fire-type attacks, notably easily 2HKOing Whiscash. Dragon Claw fills out the last slot as a great super effective hit on Shelgon, preventing it from using Charmeleon as setup bait, as well as getting a decent neutral hit on Flareon and other Fire-types. Rock Slide is a good alternative that deals significantly more damage to Flareon, (RC) even with a -Atk nature, (RC) at the cost of missing out on Shelgon and the rare Dragonair. The power difference between the two moves on other Fire-type targets is pretty negligible.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Modest gives Charmeleon that the power it needs, such as OHKOing granting it the ability to OHKO 252/252+ Roselia with Fire Blast, whereas Timid can allow Charmeleon to outrun and 2HKO Jolly Hitmonchan and prevent it from switching into Charmeleon, which is highly desirable on the kind of heavy hyper offense team you would typically want to use Charmeleon on. Charmeleon's available special movepool is pretty barren apart from the given moves above. Flamethrower is there as a guaranteed safe move and is usable over Overheat, but the drop in power is pretty significant. Hidden Power Water is usable as a super effective hit on Rock- and Fire-types, but then Charmeleon then has almost no way of combating Water-types, making it easy setup prey for dangerous threats like Huntail. Finally, Toxic is always available to cripple Flareon and other special walls in the long run.

Flareon and Magcargo give this set a hard time, (RC) even if you choose to run Rock Slide, making your own Water- and Rock-types like Seadra and Relicanth good teammates. Kecleon completely walls this set, meaning Hitmonchan is a great teammate to bust through it, (RC) as well as Lickitung and Wigglytuff, (AC) which who can otherwise stomach a couple hits from Charmeleon. Spikes are is amazing with this set, (AC) as all of Charmeleon's checks are grounded, making Cacturne and Roselia fantastic teammates as well.

[Other Options]

Charmeleon actually has interesting setup options in its movepool, but it's rather hard to use them properly, (AC) and they are all ultimately done better by Pokemon like Vigoroth. However, the one move that really stands out in Charmeleon's movepool is Belly Drum, which can be super dangerous under the right circumstances, (AC) as Charmeleon is fast and threatening enough to guarantee itself a Substitute in most situations and begin setting up. With a moveset of Belly Drum, Substitute, Return, and Rock Slide Belly Drum / Substitute / Return / Rock Slide while holding a Salac Berry, Charmeleon could prove to be pretty threatening, (RC) even without any physical STAB attacks. Unfortunately, even at +6, Charmeleon will lose to physical stalwarts like Relicanth, (AC) which who can still avoid the 2HKO from Rock Slide or Return and can easily OHKO back. For the same reasons, a Swords Dance or SubPunch set can do some damage under the right circumstances, (RC) but requires way too much support to pull off properly and are stopped cold by popular physical walls.

Finally, Sunny Day is an option to boost Charmeleon's firepower and help support Chlorophyll-sweeping teammates like Bellossom. Under the sun, Charmeleon has a really good chance to OHKO Hitmonchan with Overheat, which is guaranteed with a layer of Spikes, and Charmeleon even has a small chance to 2HKO 252/252+ Dewgong with Fire Blast. Unfortunately, Charmeleon lacks Solar Beam or anything else to benefit from the sun, but it also comes with the benefit of weakening Water-type attacks directed its way.

[Checks and Counters]

Kecleon is an almost complete stop to any special Charmeleon set and can proceed to either paralyze it with Thunder Wave and make Charmeleon useless, (RC) or simply 2HKO it with Return. Defensive Flareon and Magcargo are the next best stops to any special Charmeleon set, (AC) as they fear nothing it can throw at them apart from Rock Slide or Toxic. They probably can't do much in return, but they will ultimately outlast Charmeleon. Wailord, Pelipper, and other Water-types that can avoid the 4x hit from Hidden Power Grass are other really good switch-ins to Charmeleon and can easily OHKO it with their STAB Water-type moves. Most of the Pokemon that can outspeed Charmeleon can also threaten it with O-2HKOes, this includes including Pidgeot, Murkrow, Plusle, and Haunter. Finally, Sudowoodo can just barely avoid the 2HKO from Fire Blast + Hidden Power Grass and proceed to OHKO Charmeleon with its STAB move.


any ability?
 

Oglemi

Borf
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Implemented

"hyper offense" isn't really a thing in ADV, especially when you're talking about like BW-SM types of hyper offense, or even DPP. "heavy offense" is a more accurate description, since it's not really hyper but it's also not balance and sounds better than "offensively-inclined teams" since you can still have offensive teams that aren't quite as offensive as heavy offense. Might be worth adding to coined terms but it's more of an ADV nuance than anything. The only thing that really comes close to hyper offense in ADV are BP chains, which are just called BP chains.

also "OHKOing, 2HKOing, etc" should definitely still be a thing
 

GatoDelFuego

The Antimonymph of the Internet
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REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

[Overview]

Charmeleon's niche in the NU tier is being the third fastest Fire-type available, sitting just under Ponyta and Magby, while sporting all-around better stats than either of those two. However, it's really one-dimensional, as it really shouldn't be doing anything other than its standard special attacking set. That said, it isn't exactly easy to wall, which makes it a good fit on heavy offense teams that want a hard-hitting Fire-type that's quite a bit faster than Flareon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Overheat
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Dragon Claw / Rock Slide
item: Leftovers
ability: Blaze
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Fire Blast is going to be the main STAB move Charmeleon will be using, with Overheat available in the second slot as a secondary STAB nuke that can force some targets like Lickitung to immediately heal and give Charmeleon a safe switch out. To demonstrate a situation where Overheat can come in handy: with a Modest nature, Charmeleon will always OHKO max HP Glalie with Fire Blast, but with a Timid nature, that drops to about a 50% chance, while Overheat stays at a 100% chance to OHKO. So, depending on the nature choice and the target, having both Fire Blast and Overheat available is nice to do what Charmeleon wants to—which is blow stuff away.

Hidden Power Grass shreds apart the Rock- and Water-types that would otherwise be able to switch into Charmeleon's Fire-type attacks, notably easily 2HKOing Whiscash. Dragon Claw fills out the last slot as a great super effective hit on Shelgon, preventing it from using Charmeleon as setup bait, as well as getting a decent neutral hit on Flareon and other Fire-types. Rock Slide is a good alternative that deals significantly more damage to Flareon even with a -Atk nature at the cost of missing out on Shelgon and the rare Dragonair. The power difference between the two moves on other Fire-type targets is pretty negligible.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Modest gives Charmeleon the power it needs, such as OHKOing 252 / 252+ Roselia with Fire Blast, whereas Timid can allow Charmeleon to outrun and 2HKO Jolly Hitmonchan and prevent it from switching into Charmeleon, which is highly desirable on the kind of heavy offense team you would typically want to use Charmeleon on. Charmeleon's available special movepool is pretty barren apart from the given moves above. Flamethrower is there as a guaranteed safe move and is usable over Overheat, but the drop in power is pretty significant. Hidden Power Water is usable as a super effective hit on Rock- and Fire-types, but Charmeleon then has almost no way of combating Water-types, making it easy setup prey for dangerous threats like Huntail. Finally, Toxic is always available to cripple Flareon and other special walls in the long run.

Flareon and Magcargo give this set a hard time even if you choose to run Rock Slide, making your own Water- and Rock-types like Seadra and Relicanth good teammates. Kecleon completely walls this set, meaning Hitmonchan is a great teammate to bust through it as well as Lickitung and Wigglytuff, which can otherwise stomach a couple hits from Charmeleon. Spikes support is amazing with this set, as all of Charmeleon's checks are grounded, making Cacturne and Roselia fantastic teammates as well.

[Other Options]

Charmeleon actually has interesting setup options in its movepool, but it's rather hard to use them properly, and they are all ultimately done better by Pokemon like Vigoroth. However, the one move that really stands out in Charmeleon's movepool is Belly Drum, which can be super dangerous under the right circumstances, as Charmeleon is fast and threatening enough to guarantee itself a Substitute in most situations and begin setting up. With a moveset of Belly Drum / Substitute / Return / Rock Slide while holding a Salac Berry, Charmeleon could prove to be pretty threatening even without any physical STAB attacks. Unfortunately, even at +6, Charmeleon will lose to physical stalwarts like Relicanth, which can still avoid the 2HKO from Rock Slide or Return and can easily OHKO back. For the same reasons, a Swords Dance or SubPunch set can do some damage under the right circumstances but require way too much support to pull off properly and are stopped cold by popular physical walls.

Finally, Sunny Day is an option to boost Charmeleon's Fire power and help support Chlorophyll-sweeping teammates sweepers personal change like Bellossom. Under sun, Charmeleon has a really good chance to OHKO Hitmonchan with Overheat, which is guaranteed with a layer of Spikes, and Charmeleon even has a small chance to 2HKO 252 / 252+ Dewgong with Fire Blast. Unfortunately, Charmeleon lacks Solar Beam or anything else to benefit from the sun, but it also comes with the benefit of weakening Water-type attacks directed its way.

[Checks and Counters]

Kecleon is an almost complete stop to any special Charmeleon set and can proceed to either paralyze it with Thunder Wave and make Charmeleon useless or simply 2HKO it with Return. Defensive Flareon and Magcargo are the next best stops to any special Charmeleon set, as they fear nothing it can throw at them apart from Rock Slide or Toxic. They probably can't do much in return, but they will ultimately outlast Charmeleon. Wailord, Pelipper, and other Water-types that can avoid the 4x hit from Hidden Power Grass are other really good switch-ins to Charmeleon and can easily OHKO it with their STAB Water-type moves. Most of the Pokemon that can outspeed Charmeleon can also threaten it, including Pidgeot, Murkrow, Plusle, and Haunter. Finally, Sudowoodo can just barely avoid the 2HKO from Fire Blast + Hidden Power Grass and proceed to OHKO Charmeleon with its STAB move.

2/2
 

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