OU Celesteela

[rau]

Ryoma Nagare progress on this?

Yeah I'm getting it done before sunday tops. Can't have an analysis last a year :v

Also since you're here, do I include Autotomize or not?

 

[Hootie]

Yeah I'm getting it done before sunday tops. Can't have an analysis last a year :v

Also since you're here, do I include Autotomize or not?

Yeah include it.

 

[D_what]

If Earthquake is getting slashed in the same slot as Flamethrower, it's worth noting that Careful is preferred to Sassy since you're no longer using special attacks. You then outspeed -spe Tyranitar, Blissey, and Neutral Clefable and Porygon2, for all the good that does.

 

[Hootie]

Ryoma Nagare I'm giving you 24 hours to get this ready or this will be reassigned.

 

[rau]

only need to flesh out c&c and a bit of team options. should be fully cleared by 12 pm est

 

[p2]

[OVERVIEW]

• Great defensive typing in Flying / Steel coupled with good overall mixed bulk make Celesteela a great tank and useful check to several OU threats such as Tapu Lele, Latios, Mega Scizor, and Magearna.
  
• Can wear down various threats with moves as Leech Seed + Protect or Toxic.
  
• Base 101 Attack and base 107 Special Attack means Celesteela can put up a fight and not be complete fodder. This is further benefitted by good STAB in Heavy Slam, which thanks to Celesteela's high weight has around 120 BP against more targets and useful coverage in Flamethrower and Earthquake that allows it to actively beat opposing bulky Steel-types and Electric-types, respectively.
• Beast Boost allows Celesteela to further boost its already good Special Defense if it achieves a KO, or Special Attack if it opts for a more offensive set.
• Relatively low base 61 Speed, leaving it outsped by various offensive threats.
  
• Lack of reliable recovery can be compromising for its bulk.
• Faces competition from Skarmory, which has access to Roost and several support moves such as both Stealth Rock and Spikes, Defog, and Taunt.

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect
move 3: Heavy Slam
move 4: Flamethrower / Earthquake
item: Leftovers
ability: Beast Boost
nature: Sassy / Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Leech Seed allows Celesteela to recover health and wittle down its opponent and is essential as it has no reliable recovery otherwise.
  
• Protect helps Celesteela gain more recovery from Leech Seed aside from allowing it to scout for the opponent's moves. and scouts out choice item users
• Heavy Slam is a great STAB option, thanks to Celesteela's weight.
• Flamethrower allows Celesteela to heavily damage other bulky Steel-types such as Mega Scizor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn and avoid being set-up fodder for Kartana.
  
• Toxic helps Celesteela wear down bulky Pokemon such as Rotom-Wash, Slowbro, and Hippowdon which circumvent Leech Seed's passive damage.

toxic is asscheeks, also mention eq since i added it as a slash

Set Details
========

• Leftovers provides Celesteela with passive recovery alongside Leech Seed.
• Maximum investment in HP and Special Defense allow Celesteela to effectively check Pokemon such as Tapu Lele and Latios.
• A Sassy Nature increases Celesteela's Special Defense without sacrificing power from Heavy Slam or Flamethrower. If Toxic is used instead of Flamethrower, a Careful nature should be chosen.

careful should be used if not running flamethrower though as it gets the jump on things like uninvested clef and cb ttar
Usage Tips
========

• Celesteela should mainly be switched into Pokemon which cannot hit it super-effectively in order to block their offensive presence such as Tapu Lele, Latios and Mega Pinsir
  
• Celesteela can also come in on some walls such as Chansey, Slowbro and cripple them with Leech Seed + Toxic.
• As it lacks reliable recovery, Celesteela should not be forced in too much as taking too much damage can severely limit its defensive capabilities.

Team Options
========

• Dugtrio can trap Electric-types such as Magnezone and Xurkitree which can be annoying for Celesteela, while in return Celesteela can beat bulky steel-types Dugtrio can't manage to trap such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Mega Scizor
• Mega Venusaur can handle Water- and Electric-types for Celesteela, while in return Celesteela deals with Flying- and Psychic-type Pokemon.
• Heatran and Rotom-W can absorb Fire-type moves for Celesteela, while Hippowdon and Marowak-A can cover Electric-types moves.
• Mega Sableye can ward off Will-o-Wisp and Stealth Rock for Celesteela and further help fending off opposing Celesteela.

[SET]
name: Autotomize Sweeper
move 1: Autotomize
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Giga Drain / Earthquake
item: Life Orb
ability: Beast Boost
nature: Modest / Rash
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Autotomize doubles Celesteela's Speed, allowing it to clean late-game more effectively
• Air Slash is Celesteela's STAB move of choice, as it has decent overall coverage.
  
• Fire Blast hits Steel-types for super-effective damage, as otherwise they freely switch into Air Slash. is fire blast really necessary, whenever i use this set i always go with flamethrower because i haven't found any notable ohko/2hkos it misses out on and it snowballs super easily with beast boosts anyway.
• Giga Drain mitigates Life Orb recoil and hits the likes of Rotom-W, Greninja, and Hippowdon for the highest damage.
• Earthquake hits Tapu Koko, Heatran, and Nihilego for super effective damage, all which take Celesteela's other moves well.
• While weaker, Flamethrower can be opted over Fire Blast if accuracy is a concern.

Set Details
========

• Maximum Special Attack investment with a Modest or Rash nature help improve Celesteela's damage output.
• Maximum Speed EVs allow Celesteela to outspeed max Speed Pheromosa and +1 base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Jirachi, Salamence, and Manaphy after using Autotomize.
  
• Life Orb boosts the power of Celesteela's moves at the cost of slightly compromising its bulk.
• If Celesteela is using Earthquake, a Rash nature should be chosen in order to not sacrifice its power.
• Beast Boost is specially useful on this set as it increases Celesteela's Special Attack after achieving a KO, allowing it to snowball through the opposing team provided it gets enough KOs.

Usage Tips
========

• Celesteela should aim to set up late-game once its checks and have been severely weakend or KOed.
• Try to aim for setup opportunities in Pokemon locked into resisted moves such as Tapu Lele's Psychic and Landorus-Therian's Earthquake.
• If needed, Celesteela can still be used in order to wear down the opposing team with its wide coverage in order for a teammate to clean later in the game.

Team Options
========

• Stealth Rock setters such as Heatran, Landorus-T, and Garchomp that can cover Celesteela's weaknesses are appreciated as they can provide chip damage to the opposing team.
• If it lacks Giga Drain, Pokemon that can pressure bulky Water-types such as Tapu Koko and Thundurus are useful partners. add some grasses
• Wallbreakers such as Manaphy, Tapu Bulu and Pheromosa can wear down the opposing team for Celesteela, allowing it to clean more easily. what are they wearing down for cele?

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Physically oriented Autotomize with Heavy Slam, Fire Blast, and Earthquake.
• Substitute alongside Leech Seed can allow Celesteela to avoid status, although it's lack of recovery apart from Leftovers and Leech Seed means Celesteela might potentially be too worn down by the move.
  
• Defensive Celesteela can opt for Earthquake in order to lure in and damage Heatran, Marowak-A, and Magnezone super effectively, which can come into Celesteela's other moves bar Leech Seed and Flamethrower in Magnezone's case with impunity. However, it forces Celesteela to drop one of its more useful moves.
  
• Shed Shell to avoid getting trapped by Magnezone. at the cost of being much easier to wear down

put toxic here

Checks and Counters
===================
**Magnezone**: Thanks to Magnet Pull, Magnezone is able to trap and 2HKO Celesteela with Thunderbolt, although Celesteela can bypass this using Shed Shell. In that case, it would rely on Knock Off support in order to trap Celesteela.

**Electric-types**: Tapu Koko, Xurkitree (Replace Xurk with Thundurus), and similarly other Electric-types can heavily damage Celesteela with their STAB moves and can usually avoid being crippled by Toxic or Leech Seed thanks to Volt Switch. Latios and Tapu Lele are also capable of luring Celesteela with Thunderbolt

**Fire-types and Fire-type coverage**: Heatran, Mega Charizard X and Y and Alolan Marowak can switch into Celesteela's Heavy Slam or a predicted Protect and heavily damage it with their Fire-type STAB moves. However, with the exception of Mega Charizard Y, they should be wary of Earthquake. While Celesteela resists both its STAB options, Garchomp usually carries Fire Fang or Fire Blast to hit Celesteela super-effectively.

**Mega Sableye**: Mega Sableye is immune to passive damage induced by Celesteela thanks to Magic Bounce, even being able to affect Celesteela with its own Leech Seed. Mega Sableye can also Recover stall Heavy Slam and cripple Celesteela with Will-o-Wisp.

1/3

 

[Colonel M]

Small examples where Fire Blast is better than Flamethrower.

Example A:

252+ SpA Life Orb Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 221-263 (66.1 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(221, 224, 226, 229, 231, 234, 237, 239, 242, 244, 247, 250, 252, 255, 257, 263)
252+ SpA Life Orb Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 221-263 (66.1 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(221, 224, 226, 229, 231, 234, 237, 239, 242, 244, 247, 250, 252, 255, 257, 263)

Example B:

252+ SpA Life Orb Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 226-268 (75 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(226, 229, 231, 234, 237, 239, 242, 244, 247, 250, 252, 255, 257, 260, 263, 268)
252+ SpA Life Orb Celesteela Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 276-325 (91.6 - 107.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(276, 278, 281, 286, 289, 291, 294, 299, 302, 304, 307, 312, 315, 317, 320, 325)

To be blunt, though, none of these Pokemon should ever switch into Celesteela. I think for that reason Flamethrower should be the primary attack, though Fire Blast has small merit if you try to gamble setting up on these mons (I mean to be fair Mega Metagross doesn't always carry Thunder Punch and Hammer Arm won't OHKO).

In Checks and Counters you listed the following:

**Magnezone**: Thanks to Magnet Pull, Magnezone is able to trap and 2HKO Celesteela with Thunderbolt, although Celesteela can bypass this using Shed Shell. In that case, it would rely on Knock Off support in order to trap Celesteela.

Currently Shed Shell is only listed in Other Options, which makes it odd to even mention such a scenario. I would put Shed Shell at the least in Set Details. Magnezone usage is really picking up and nothing is worse than having your Celesteela trapped by Magnezone - especially if it's packing Assault Vest to lower Flamethrower damage.

Merely implement p2 and my changes and I think we'll be good to go. Great read overall.

2/3

 

[PK Gaming]

Overview

• It's pretty nice overall, but I don't think you can get away with suggesting that Celesteela faces competition from Skarmory. They're 2 fairly different Pokemon, with different roles (passive Spiker/Defogger vs a SpD wall that harasses literally everything with Leech Seed and hits hard).
• As a con, you can mention that Celesteela can't really get away with running Shed Shell that well like Skarm, since it lacks reliable recovery.

Usage Tips

Shed Shell can be used in order to avoid getting trapped by Magnezone, although losing Leftovers makes Celesteela easier to wear down.

This should be in Set Details. As a usage tip, I would add that Celesteela can function as a lategame win condition. Once it can successfully activate Beast Boost, it becomes incredibly difficult to take out. Example

Team Options

Mega Venusaur can handle Water- and Electric-types for Celesteela, while in return Celesteela deals with Flying- and Psychic-type Pokemon.

Nitpick, but does Celesteela really have trouble with Water-types? Water-types suffer the same fate as every other non Grass-type that switches into Celesteela; harassed by Leech Seed.

Team Options (Autotomize)

Dugtrio works here, since it can trap Heatran and Chansey.

Otherwise,

3/3

 

[mulgokizary]

Hi again.

I have tested out Autotomize Celesteela more and Flyinium-Z seems to be better than LO on the special set. Definitely worth primary slash. Once you clear out things like Heatran, Sky Strike makes it very easy to KO things that would live LO Air Slash before (and secure you that Beast Boost that will win you the game) while the lack of an LO tick allows Celesteela to take harder hits while setting up, and to take on bulkier Pokemon that can take a more than one hit better, so your sweep won't be stopped as often. For instance, you will win against bulky waters more often if you can Giga Drain without taking Life Orb recoil. I did not particularly miss the damage boost that Life Orb gives you.

I found that this set is a very underrated and potent sweeper that is super easy to set up. Spikes Greninja is something that simply must be mentioned in Team Options.

I also don't find the physical set viable whatsoever anymore, but it already isn't on the analysis so that's fine.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Colonel M]

EDIT: After playtesting it more (and having p2 use it as well) - definitely put that Flyinium Z in that set. Oh my God that fucking thing robs lives if you set it up right.

Also you can offer an alternative spread: 84 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe outspeeds Modest Phero at +2 (which you could argue are the ones that can be seen as super frightening for some teams) by 1 point after an Auto.

 

[Hootie]

Ryoma Nagare please implement the QC checks and the above post in 24 hours or this is getting reassigned.

 

[Lumari]

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/1

check

[OVERVIEW]

• Great defensive typing in Flying / Steel / Flying coupled with good overall mixed bulk makes Celesteela a great tank and a useful check to several OU threats such as Tapu Lele, Latios, Mega Scizor, and Magearna.
• It can wear down various threats with moves as Leech Seed + Protect.
• Base 101 Attack and base 107 Special Attack means Celesteela can put up a fight and not be complete fodder. This is further benefitted by good a STAB attack in Heavy Slam, which thanks to Celesteela's high weight has around 120 BP Base Power against more (most?) targets and useful coverage in Flamethrower and Earthquake that allows it to actively beat opposing bulky Steel-types and Electric-types, respectively.
• Beast Boost allows Celesteela to further boost its already good Special Defense if it achieves a KO, or its Special Attack if it opts for a more offensive set, if it achieves a KO.
• Its relatively low base 61 Speed (RC) leaving leaves it outsped by various offensive threats.
• Lack of reliable recovery can be compromising for its bulk.
• Vulnerable to being trapped by Magneton moreso than Skarmory, as it lacks a form of reliable recovery to make up for not using Leftovers.

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect
move 3: Heavy Slam
move 4: Flamethrower / Earthquake
item: Leftovers
ability: Beast Boost
nature: Sassy / Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Leech Seed allows Celesteela to recover health and wittle whittle down its opponent foe, (AC) and it is essential as it because Celesteela has no reliable recovery otherwise.
  
• Protect helps Celesteela gain more recovery from Leech Seed aside from allowing as well as it to scout for the opponent's foe's moves and potential Choice items.
  
• Heavy Slam is a great STAB option, thanks to Celesteela's weight.
• Flamethrower allows Celesteela to heavily damage other bulky Steel-types such as Mega Scizor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn and avoid being set-up setup fodder for Kartana.
  
• Earthquake can be used to lure in and damage Heatran, Alolan Marowak-A, and Magnezone and hit them super effectively, which can come into Celesteela's other moves bar Leech Seed, and Flamethrower in Magnezone's case, with impunity.

Set Details
========

• Leftovers provides Celesteela with passive recovery alongside Leech Seed.
• Shed Shell can be used in order to avoid getting trapped by Magnezone, although losing Leftovers makes Celesteela easier to wear down.
  
• Maximum investment in HP and Special Defense allow allows Celesteela to effectively check Pokemon such as Tapu Lele and Latios.
• A Sassy nature increases Celesteela's Special Defense without sacrificing power from Heavy Slam or Flamethrower.
  
• If Earthquake is used instead of Flamethrower, a Careful nature should be chosen, (AC) as it allows Celesteela to outspeed uninvested Clefable and Speed tie with uninvested Tyranitar.

Usage Tips
========

• Celesteela should mainly be switched into Pokemon which that cannot hit it super effectively (RH) in order to block their offensive presence such as Tapu Lele, Latios, (AC) and Mega Pinsir. (AP)
  
• Celesteela can also come in on some walls such as Chansey (RC) and Slowbro and cripple them with Leech Seed.
  
• As it lacks reliable recovery, Celesteela should not be forced in too much often, (AC) as taking too much damage can severely limit its defensive capabilities.
• Thanks to Beast Boost, Celesteela can function as a win condition wincon, (AC) as the Special Defense boosts gained from attaining KOs can make it much harder to take down.

Team Options
========

• Dugtrio can trap Electric-types such as Magnezone and Xurkitree which that can be annoying for Celesteela, while in return Celesteela can beat bulky Steel-types Dugtrio can't manage to trap such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Mega Scizor
• Mega Venusaur can handle Electric-types for Celesteela, while in return Celesteela deals with Flying- and Psychic-type Pokemon.
• Heatran and Rotom-W can absorb Fire-type moves for Celesteela, while Hippowdon and Alolan Marowak-A can cover Electric-types moves.
• Mega Sableye can ward off Will-O-Wisp and Stealth Rock for Celesteela and further help fending off opposing Celesteela.

[SET]
name: Autotomize Sweeper
move 1: Autotomize
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Flamethrower
move 4: Giga Drain / Earthquake
item: Flyinium Z / Life Orb
ability: Beast Boost
nature: Modest / Rash
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Autotomize doubles Celesteela's Speed, allowing it to clean late-game more effectively. (AP)
  
• Air Slash is Celesteela's STAB move of choice, as it has decent overall coverage.
• Flamethrower hits Steel-types for super effective (RH) damage, as which otherwise they freely switch into Air Slash.
• Giga Drain mitigates Life Orb recoil and hits the likes of Rotom-W, Greninja, and Hippowdon for the highest damage.
• Alternatively, (AC) Earthquake hits Tapu Koko, Heatran, and Nihilego for super effective damage, all which take Celesteela's other moves well.

Set Details
========

• Maximum Special Attack investment with a Modest or Rash nature helps improve Celesteela's damage output.
• Maximum Speed EVs allow Celesteela to outspeed maximum Speed Pheromosa and +1 base 95 Speed Pokemon such as Tapu Lele and Sharpedo. (AP)
  
• Alternatively, investing only 172 EVs in Speed and putting the remaining ones in HP allows Celesteela. (AP)
  
• Flyinium-Z turns Air Slash into a one-time 140 BP 140-Base Power move, providing it with a great option to achieve an early KO in order to trigger Beast Boost.
  
• Life Orb boosts the power of all of Celesteela's moves at the cost of slightly compromising its bulk.
• If Celesteela is using Earthquake, a Rash nature should be chosen in order to not sacrifice its power.
• Beast Boost is especially useful on this set, (AC) as it increases Celesteela's Special Attack after achieving a KO, allowing it to snowball through the opposing team provided it gets enough KOs.

Usage Tips
========

• Celesteela should aim to set up late-game once its checks and have been severely weakend weakened or KOed.
• Try to aim for setup opportunities in Pokemon locked into resisted moves such as Tapu Lele's Psychic and Landorus-Therian's Earthquake.
• If needed, Celesteela can still be used in order to wear down the opposing team with its wide coverage in order for a teammate to clean later in the game.

Team Options
========

• Stealth Rock setters such as Heatran, Landorus-T, and Garchomp that can cover Celesteela's weaknesses are appreciated, (AC) as they can provide chip damage to the opposing team.
• Extra entry hazard support such as Spikes from Greninja is also appreciated. (AP)
  
• If it lacks Giga Drain, Pokemon that can pressure bulky Water-types such as Tapu Koko, Thundurus, and Tapu Bulu are useful partners.
• Dugtrio can trap Chansey and Heatran for Celesteela, allowing it to attack more freely.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Physically oriented Autotomize with Heavy Slam, Fire Blast, and Earthquake. (complete sentence please)
  
• Substitute alongside Leech Seed can allow Celesteela to avoid status, although it's its lack of recovery apart from Leftovers and Leech Seed means Celesteela might potentially be too worn down by the move.
  
• Toxic helps Celesteela wear down bulky Pokemon such as Rotom-Wash, Slowbro, and Hippowdon, (AC) which circumvent Leech Seed's passive damage. (how does at least Rotom-W circumvest LS?) However, it forces Celesteela to drop one of its more useful moves.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Magnezone**: Thanks to Magnet Pull, Magnezone is able to trap and 2HKO Celesteela and 2HKO it with Thunderbolt, although Celesteela can bypass this using Shed Shell. In that case, it Magnezone would rely on Knock Off support in order to trap Celesteela.

**Electric-types**: Tapu Koko, Thundurus, and similarly other Electric-types can heavily damage Celesteela with their STAB moves and can usually avoid being crippled by Toxic or Leech Seed thanks to Volt Switch. Latios and Tapu Lele are also capable of luring Celesteela and hitting it with Thunderbolt

**Fire-types and Fire-type coverage**: Heatran, Mega Charizard X and Y and Alolan Marowak can switch into Celesteela's Heavy Slam or a predicted Protect and heavily damage it with their Fire-type STAB moves. However, with the exception of Mega Charizard Y, they should be wary of Earthquake. While Celesteela resists both its STAB options, Garchomp usually carries Fire Fang or Fire Blast to hit Celesteela super effectively. (RH)

**Mega Sableye**: Mega Sableye is immune to passive damage induced by Celesteela thanks to Magic Bounce, even being able to affect Celesteela with its own Leech Seed. Mega Sableye can also Recover stall Heavy Slam and cripple Celesteela with Will-O-Wisp.

 

[Hootie]

d