CAP Updates: Voodoom Discussion (Complete)

Status
Not open for further replies.

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
Some of you might have been expecting a poll, but we've decided to do something else. Since Voodoom is so old, we felt it was better to fill in Voodoom's movepool as submissions since there are lots of moves.

Voodoom's Current Level Up Movepool said:
- Wrap
- Revenge
- Night Slash
- Astonish
- Copycat
- Pain Split
- Spite
7 Pain Split
11 Spite
15 Grudge
19 Charge
20 Follow Me
25 Pin Missile
30 Faint Attack
35 Close Combat
40 Acupressure
45 Aura Sphere
50 Substitute
55 Beat Up

(Egg Groups: Human-like / Field)
Perish Song
Smellingsalt
Screech
Pursuit
Memento
Imprison
Mach Punch
Baton Pass

TM List
TM06 – Toxic
TM08 – Bulk Up
TM10 – Hidden Power
TM11 – Sunny Day
TM12 – Taunt
TM15 – Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM21 – Frustration
TM26 – Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM29 – Psychic
TM31 – Brick Break
TM41 – Torment
TM42 – Façade
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM46 – Thief
TM52 – Focus Blast
TM56 – Fling
TM58 – Endure
TM66 – Payback
TM68 – Giga Impact
TM71 – Stone Edge
TM73 – Thunder Wave
TM79 – Dark Pulse
TM80 – Rock Slide
TM85 – Dream Eater
TM87 – Swagger
TM88 – Sleep Talk
TM90 – Substitute

Move Tutor:
Ice Punch
Counter
Metronome
Mud Slap
Mimic
Uproar
Snore
Vacuum Wave
Pain Split
Spite
Nightmare
Magic Coat
Low Kick
Knock Off

Move Tutor (old TMs)
Focus Punch (TM 01 in Gen 4)
Shock Wave (TM34 in Gen 4)
Snatch (TM49 in Gen 4)
Drain Punch (TM60 in Gen 4)
Captivate (TM78 in Gen 4)
Natural Gift (TM83 in Gen 4)
Secret Power (TM94 in Gen 6 ORAS)
Strength (HM04 in Gen 6)
Rock Smash (HM06 in Gen 6)
You must add the moves from the Universal TMs List (Confide, Round, Double Team are the ones that it lacks right now), Nasty Plot, Thunderbolt, and Flash Cannon to Voodoom's movepool. Any move we've discussed so far in the thread since post #155 is fair game, except for Strength Sap. I will reserve the right to reject a move at a later point in time if the situation arises. Remember that any moves added at this stage should have little to no competitive relevance.

You can make a submission by replying to this post, deleting my commentary, removing the quote tags, and adding in the moves to the movepool. Please bold the moves you add, list the moves you add, and give reasoning for why you chose these moves. Keep your movepool submission as close as possible to the current movepool. Many Gen 7 level up movepools look similar to those of Gen 4, with only one or two moves added if at all. You may not change the egg groups. You also may not delete any moves.

Be smart with your submission. Don't add thirty moves just for the sake of adding thirty moves. Most Pokemon only get one or two additional level up moves between generations and don't really get any more egg moves either. Don't forget about ORAS move tutors.

Depending on how this discussion plays out, we might and probably will have a poll. This discussion shouldn't take too long since most of the movepool is done anyway, so this discussion will be open for 48 hours, with an additional 24 hours if need be. Please put WIP or Final Submission above you post so I know whether or not you are finished.
 
Last edited:
WIP

- Wrap
- Revenge
- Night Slash
- Astonish
- Copycat
- Pain Split
- Spite
7 Pain Split
11 Spite
15 Grudge
19 Charge
21 Follow Me
23 Pin Missile
25 Faint Attack
28 Close Combat
31 Acupressure
34 Foul Play
38 Aura Sphere
42 Nasty Plot
48 Substitute
53 Beat Up

(Egg Groups: Humanshape / Field)
Perish Song
Smellingsalt
Screech
Pursuit
Memento
Imprison
Mach Punch
Baton Pass
Hex (From Vulpix)

TM List
TM01 - Work Up
TM06 – Toxic
TM08 – Bulk Up
TM10 – Hidden Power
TM11 – Sunny Day
TM12 – Taunt
TM15 – Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM21 – Frustration
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM26 – Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM29 – Psychic
TM31 – Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM41 – Torment
TM42 – Façade
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM46 – Thief
TM48 - Round
TM52 – Focus Blast
TM56 – Fling
TM58 – Endure
TM66 – Payback
TM67 - Smart Strike
TM68 – Giga Impact
TM71 – Stone Edge
TM73 – Thunder Wave
TM79 – Dark Pulse
TM80 – Rock Slide
TM85 – Dream Eater
TM87 – Swagger
TM88 – Sleep Talk
TM90 – Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM95 - Snarl
TM100 - Confide

Move Tutor:
Ice Punch
Counter
Metronome
Mud Slap
Mimic
Uproar
Snore
Vacuum Wave
Pain Split
Spite
Nightmare
Magic Coat
Low Kick
Knock Off
Magic Room
After You


Move Tutor (old TMs)
Focus Punch (TM 01 in Gen 4)
Shock Wave (TM34 in Gen 4)
Snatch (TM49 in Gen 4)
Drain Punch (TM60 in Gen 4)
Captivate (TM78 in Gen 4)
Natural Gift (TM83 in Gen 4)
Secret Power (TM94 in Gen 6 ORAS)
Strength (HM04 in Gen 6)
Rock Smash (HM06 in Gen 6)
Power-Up Punch (TM98 in Gen 6)
Retaliate (TM67 in Gens 5 & 6)
Ally Switch (TM51 in Gen 5)


These are some explanations for non-mandatory moves (those being the TM trio plus NP, Tbolt and Flash Cannon):


Magic Room is given as a move tutor as Banette gets this move in the same way.

If it can enact revenge, why shouldn't it be able to Retaliate? Also, it works as it was a TM up until now.

Power-Up Punch was essentially a universal TM among fighting types last gen, so I think it's fine.

Hex makes sense as a Voodoo doll would be able to place a curse on the foe, and Hex is the closest thing we have, seeing how Doom isn't Ghost type.

Work Up is almost universal among fighting types, I can picture Doom getting madder and getting worked up, and Nasty Plot outclasses.

Snarl is great, as the idea of Doom screaming with its mouth closed is horrifyingly perfect for it.

Smart Strike is good because of Doom's needle. Not much to say aside from that.

Foul Play is given to pretty much all Dark types, and this could be where it starts learning about its more evil powers.

I really like Ally Switch, because it both fits the original concept of Doom, and also seems like a sort of trickster move.

After You is pretty much purely because of the concept.
 
Last edited:
- Wrap
- Revenge
- Night Slash
- Astonish
- Copycat
- Pain Split
- Spite
7 Pain Split
11 Spite
15 Grudge
16 Hex
19 Charge
20 Follow Me
23 Embargo
25 Pin Missile
30 Faint Attack
35 Close Combat
40 Acupressure
43 Nasty Plot
45 Aura Sphere
50 Substitute
55 Beat Up

(Egg Groups: Humanshape / Ground)
Perish Song
Smellingsalt
Screech
Pursuit
Memento
Imprison
Mach Punch
Baton Pass
Assurance
Spark
Sing

TM List
TM06 – Toxic
TM08 – Bulk Up
TM10 – Hidden Power
TM11 – Sunny Day
TM12 – Taunt
TM15 – Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM21 – Frustration
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM27 – Return
TM29 – Psychic
TM31 – Brick Break
TM32 - Double team
TM41 – Torment
TM42 – Façade
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM46 – Thief
TM48 - Round
TM52 – Focus Blast
TM56 – Fling
TM58 – Endure
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 – Payback
TM68 – Giga Impact
TM71 – Stone Edge
TM73 – Thunder Wave
TM79 – Dark Pulse
TM80 – Rock Slide
TM85 – Dream Eater
TM87 – Swagger
TM88 – Sleep Talk
TM90 – Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
TM95 - Snarl
TM100
Confide


Move Tutor:
Ice Punch
Counter
Metronome
Mud Slap
Mimic
Uproar
Snore
Vacuum Wave
Pain Split
Spite
Nightmare
Magic Coat
Low Kick
Knock Off

Move Tutor (old TMs)
Focus Punch (TM 01 in Gen 4)
Shock Wave (TM34 in Gen 4)
Snatch (TM49 in Gen 4)
Drain Punch (TM60 in Gen 4)
Captivate (TM78 in Gen 4)
Natural Gift (TM83 in Gen 4)
Secret Power (TM94 in Gen 6 ORAS)
Strength (HM04 in Gen 6)
Rock Smash (HM06 in Gen 6)


Time to explain some stuff.

Embargo: well it's a dark type, looks like it would embargo someone, and many of the pokes like it have embargo.
Snarl: Same reasoning as above basically
Assurance: the same reasoning embargo... again
Spark: It gets thunderbolt, so why not spark. It's a bit of a stretch though. Seeing it's needles conduct electricity seems like something it can do, you know frankstein crap.
Sing: The idea of it singing is pretty creepy, which kinda fits him. It already gets sound moves like perish song, and a 55% chance of sleep isn't gonna be competitive
 
Last edited:

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
Final Submission
- Wrap
- Revenge
- Night Slash
- Astonish
- Copycat
- Mimic
- Pain Split
- Spite
7 Pain Split
11 Spite
15 Grudge
19 Charge
20 Follow Me
25 Pin Missile
27 Curse
30 Faint Attack
35 Close Combat
40 Acupressure
45 Aura Sphere
50 Substitute
55 Nasty Plot
60 Beat Up


Nasty Plot: I placed it fairly late into its moveset, as two stage Pokemon get it 40s to 50s, and as it makes its Substitute dolls, Voodoom continues to plot new ways to torture and make the world a miserable place, and then executes these plans with its fellow Voodoom, which is where Beat Up fits in.
Curse: If it was ommited because of movepool restrictions, then I see no reason not to include it. A Voodoo doll is cursed, and it does get Cursed body for its new flavor ability. I added it at Lvl 27, as I see Voodoom's curse as a voodoo doll turning him into the insane mess he is today after his first taste of pain.
Mimic: I decided to make this a Heart Scale move, as it doesn't completely fit with Voodoom's current movepool, but it does at least relate. I also needed to change it to Level-up, as the egg move category is very much full.

(Egg Groups: Humanshape / Ground)

Perish Song
Smellingsalt
Screech
Pursuit
Memento
Imprison
Mach Punch
Baton Pass
Hex (Learned through Vulpix)
Wide Guard
Eerie Impulse
Counter
Mimic
Metronome
Nightmre


Hex: There are actually suprisingly few pokemon who get this. Its mostly Ghost-types, some Poison types, and the two Vulpix. The only way to get it without using Level-Up (as I don't really want to deviate from what normally gets it) is through breeding with Vulpix. Its not too crazy of an addition though, as Absol gets it through breeding as well.
Wide Guard: This is my more out there option, but most fighting types get it, and it supports the idea of Perfect Partner, as it protects : allies in double battles. And there are faster Pokemon that get it such as Mienshao and Gallade. Decided to make it an egg move since it really doesn't fit with its current Level-Up moves.
Eerie Impulse: You may start to think I need to visit an abandoned mental hospital, but here me out here. It is already obvious that Voodoom already has some form of electrokinesis, so it can use it as an Electric type move. Secondly, the sheer sight of Voodoom can create impulses to flee, hampering your ability to fight (AKA your Special Attack). And third, Wooper gets this. If a mudfish that has no other ability to control electricty can get Eeriee Impulse, then I think something with a bit more electrical control can get it too.
Counter, Metronome, and Nightmare also need to be turned into egg moves, as they are only available through Tutors in Gen 3. Counter can be gotten from numerous Fighting Types, Metronome can be bred through the Snubbul line, and Kerfluffle and Hypno can supply Nightmare.


TM List
TM01 – Work Up
TM06 – Toxic
TM08 – Bulk Up
TM10 – Hidden Power
TM11 – Sunny Day
TM12 – Taunt
TM15 – Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM21 – Frustration
TM24 Thunderbolt
TM26 – Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM29 – Psychic
TM31 – Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM41 – Torment
TM42 – Façade
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM46 – Thief
TM47 – Low Sweep
TM48
Round
TM52 – Focus Blast
TM56 – Fling
TM58 – Endure
TM66 – Payback
TM67 Smart Strike
TM68 – Giga Impact
TM71 – Stone Edge
TM73 – Thunder Wave
TM78 – Bulldoze
TM79 – Dark Pulse
TM80 – Rock Slide
TM83 – Infestation
TM85 – Dream Eater
TM87 – Swagger
TM88 – Sleep Talk
TM90 – Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon
TM95
Snarl
TM100
Confide

Thunderbolt, Flash Cannon, Confide, Round, and Double Team are required moves.
Work Up: This move is near universal on Fighting types, and I can imagine Voodoom becoming more powerful and crazier as the battle progresses.
Low Sweep: Many fighting types learn this move, and it is physical. Also, a low blow isn't exactly the most honorable thing in the world. So, I think it fits well, especially under the TM slot.
Smart Strike: I don't really think I need to explain this one too much. It has the needle, it can be used as a sword, Kartana is a sword, Kartana knows Smart Strike, so based on the transference property, Voodoom should know Smart Strike :D. And its nice and comfy in the TM67 slot.
Snarl: I'm in the camp of those who support it, and I have to say a voodoo doll with its mouth woven shut snarling at you should be a pitch for a horror movie, and fits well with Voodoom. Also, can you really say it can't use its mouth when it can learn Screech and Perish Song? Luckily, it fits nicely into a TM slot.
Bulldoze: If every Pokemon with Earthquake gets it, Voodoom is no acception.
Infestation: Bugs are a staple of any horror movie, and Voodoom could have easily been ripped straight out of one. Most Ghost types, which have a similar style to Voodoom also get this move, so its not out of the realm of possibility
Move Tutor:

Ice Punch
Counter (move to Egg moves)
Metronome (move to Egg moves)
Mud Slap
Mimic (move to Egg moves)
Uproar
Snore
Vacuum Wave
Pain Split
Spite
Nightmare (move to Egg moves)
Magic Coat
Low Kick
Knock Off
Foul Play
After You


Foul Play: I've been told that most, if not all, Dark-types get this move through some way or another. I don't see why Voodoom shouldn't be able to learn it. I decided to put it into a Move Tutor slot, as that is what is most likely for a Gen 4 Pokemon.
After You: Generally a move that fits well with Perfect Mate, and can also be seen as Voodoom being nice to set up their demise, similar to Feint Attack.



Move Tutor (old TMs)

Focus Punch (TM 01 in Gen 4)
Shock Wave (TM34 in Gen 4)
Snatch (TM49 in Gen 4)
Drain Punch (TM60 in Gen 4)
Captivate (TM78 in Gen 4)
Natural Gift (TM83 in Gen 4)
Secret Power (TM94 in Gen 6 ORAS)
Strength (HM04 in Gen 6)
Rock Smash (HM06 in Gen 6)
Power-Up Punch (TM98 in Gen 6)
Retaliate (TM67 in Gen 5 & 6)

Power-Up Punch: A ton of Fighting types learn it, and there are quite a few moves in its arsenal that have to do with punching things. I see literally no reason against giving it this move through Transfer.
Retaliate: I may change my mind about this one, but Retaliate makes sense because a ton of Fighting types learned the move in Gen 5. It also makes sense, as if you attack a Voodoom, you would also feel the pain from it being a voodoo doll.

Considered Moves:
Destiny Bond was a contender, but it has too much possible usage on a niche set to actually be considered flavor imo.
Spark was also considered, as it could fit flavorfully, but the Gen 5 rule makes it unfavorable.
Magic Room has been submitted in quite a few submissions, as it emphasizes the whole magic idea. However, it is almost exclusively given to Psychic types, with only Ghost types as the exception, and I feel Curse, Hex, and Cursed Body already fulfill the idea of voodoo magic.
(Maybe) More to Come!
 
Last edited:
Final submission

- Wrap
- Revenge
- Night Slash
- Mimic
- Astonish
- Copycat
- Pain Split
- Spite
4 Pain Split
8 Spite
13 Grudge
16 Follow Me
20 Hex
25 Pin Missile
28 Feint Attack
32 Nasty Plot
37 Charge
41 Close Combat
46 Acupressure
52 Aura Sphere
56 Substitute
61 Beat Up
- Faint Attack has simply changed name in later games.
- The flavour benefits of Hex have already been discussed. It is learned rather early, but not extremely so (Yamask and Alolan Marowak learn it even earlier).
- Mimic is a G3 tutor that somehow ended up in Voodoom's movepool despite not being actually available in later generations; among those this is the one I feel fits Voodoom's flavour the most, plus it already has Copycat. This gives Voodoom four Heart Scale moves, which is not unprecedented (can't remember any case with exactly four moves but Salazzle has five).
- Most moves remain relatively unaltered, but I regularized the levels at which they are learned (now after every 3-4-5 levels, with delays after evolution like Tangrowth).
- In addition to regularizing levels, I have decided to move Charge much later (level 37 from 19): this is mainly for consistency, both with actual Pokémon which evolve by learning a move (all in the 30-40 range) and with evolved Pokémon with a high BST (Voodoom is 550).
- The original movepool submission for Voodoom features a detailed story to justify level-up moves, in which Feint Attack represents hiding in the shadows and Close Combat learning how to pummel stuff by training in the darkness. Considering my alterations, I reinterpreted this specific part of the tale as hiding in the shadows (Feint Attack), planning revenge (Nasty Plot), then supercharging and evolving (Charge) and finally starting to wreck stuff (Close Combat).

(Egg Groups: Human-like / Field)
Baton Pass
Counter* (from Hitmonchan and others)
Curse (from Bidoof/Numel)
Double-Edge (from several including Rattata)
Imprison
Mach Punch
Memento
Metronome* (from several Pokémon transferred from G1/G3, or Smeargle)
Nightmare* (from Kerfluffle/Smeargle)
Perish Song
Pursuit
Retaliate (from Sawk/transferred Pokémon)
Screech
Smelling Salts

- 14 is a high number, but not without precedent (Growlithe too has 14; Stunky which is also from G4 has 13). The three marked moves are G3 tutors that somehow snuck into the original submission.
- Curse is another flavourful move, which was explicitly described as left out from the original submission due to move limits.
- Retaliate fits Voodoom's vengeful nature and its original role as a partner. While also an old TM, I feel it fits Voodoom's nature well enough to be added as an egg move in later generations.
- Double-Edge, while an old move, fits into the reckless and self-harming motive of a voodoo doll.

TM01 - Work Up
TM06 – Toxic
TM08 – Bulk Up
TM10 – Hidden Power
TM11 – Sunny Day
TM12 – Taunt
TM15 – Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM21 – Frustration
TM23 - Smack Down
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM26 – Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM29 – Psychic
TM31 – Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM41 – Torment
TM42 – Façade
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM46 – Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round
TM52 – Focus Blast
TM56 – Fling
TM59 - Brutal Swing
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 – Payback
TM67 - Smart Strike
TM68 – Giga Impact
TM71 – Stone Edge
TM73 – Thunder Wave
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 – Rock Slide
TM83 - Infestation
TM85 – Dream Eater
TM87 – Swagger
TM88 – Sleep Talk
TM90 – Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM95 - Snarl
TM97 - Dark Pulse
TM100 - Confide
- Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon are required.
- Double Team, Round and Confide are universal.
- Work Up and Low Sweep are very common among Fighting-types.
- Bulldoze and Smack Down are mostly implied by Earthquake and Stone Edge.
- Smart Strike due to its needle, as already discussed.
- I can see Brutal Swing as frustrated flailing.
- Similarly, I can see Snarl as threatening muffled screaming.
- Embargo represents Voodoom's hindering capabilities, like explained in other submissions.
- Infestation is meant as an implementation of tormenting the opponent.
- Note that Dark Pulse has merely changed number between generations.

Drain Punch*
Focus Punch*
Foul Play
Ice Punch
Knock Off
Low Kick
Magic Coat
Mud Slap
Pain Split
Shock Wave*
Snatch*
Snore
Spite
Thunder Punch
Uproar
Vacuum Wave

- Foul Play is both very fitting and very common among Dark-types.
- Thunder Punch is mostly for consistency with Ice Punch and Thunderbolt. If Electric-type coverage is fine on the special set I don't think it should end up being problem in a physical one.
- Marked moves are simply tutors which were TMs in earlier generations.

Captivate (TM78 in G4)
Endure (TM58 in G4)
Natural Gift (TM83 in G4)
Power-up Punch (TM98 G6)
Retaliate (TM67 in G5)
Rock Smash
Secret Power (TM94 in ORAS)
Strength (HM04 in G6)
- Power-up Punch is common (universal?) among Fighting-types with arms.
- Secret Power is universal.
- As noted above, Retaliate doubles as a new egg move.

----------

Other considered moves:

- I decided to exclude Quash, After You and Ally Switch, since their Z-versions raise speed which might prove problematic.
- I don't see specific reasons for Dual Chop unless it is universal among Fighting-types.
- I have considered Tearful Look, but decided against it as I feel Voodoom is too masochistic to try to prevent the foe from hurting it.
- While Voodoom does get voice-based moves in Uproar and Perish Song, neither strongly implies Hyper Voice.
- I would have included Final Gambit, but I feel it might end up being too useful.
- I have considered Submission, but decided against it to prevent movepool bloating and due to it feeling too "technical" for Voodoom (according to Bulbapedia it's based on a lucha libre move, but then again, a bunch of G1 Pokémon like Raichu get it, so whatever).
- Other moves I have considered but ultimately discarded are Leech Life, Flail/Reversal, Destiny Bond and Stomping Tantrum. I feel they fit flavour-wise but I fear they might end up being too useful; plus they would have to be placed somewhere, thus bloating either Voodoom's level-up or egg movepool.

This should be it, please warn me if I made any mistakes.
 
Last edited:
WIP, input appreciated

- Wrap
- Revenge
- Night Slash
- Astonish
- Copycat
- Pain Split
- Spite
4 Pain Split
8 Spite
13 Grudge
16 Follow Me
20 Hex
25 Pin Missile
28 Feint Attack
32 Nasty Plot
37
Charge
41 Close Combat
46 Acupressure
52 Aura Sphere
56 Substitute
61 Beat Up
* The flavour benefits of Hex have already been discussed. It is learned rather early, but not extremely so (Yamask and Alolan Marowak learn it even earlier).
* Most moves remain relatively unaltered, but I regularized the levels at which they are learned (now after every 3-4-5 levels, with delays after evolution like Tangrowth).
* This might be a problem, but in addition to regularizing levels I have decided to move Charge much later (level 37 from 19). This is mainly for consistency, both with actual Pokémon which evolve by learning a move and with evolved Pokémon with a high BST (Voodoom is 550).
* The original movepool submission for Voodoom features a detailed story to justify level-up moves, in which Feint Attack represents hiding in the shadows and Close Combat learning how to pummel stuff by training in the darkness. Considering my alterations, I reinterpreted this specific part of the tale as hiding in the shadows (Feint Attack), planning revenge (Nasty Plot), then supercharging and evolving (Charge) and finally starting to wreck stuff (Close Combat).

(Egg Groups: Human-like / Field)
Ally Switch (from Kadabra)
Baton Pass
Curse (from Bidoof/Numel)
Imprison
Mach Punch
Memento
Perish Song
Pursuit
Retaliate (from Sawk)
Screech
Smellingsalt
Submission (from Machop)

* Ally Switch has already been discussed before.
* Curse is another flavourful move, which was explicitly described as left out from the original submission due to move limits.
* Retaliate fits Voodoom's vengeful nature and its original role as a partner.
* Submission, while an old move, fits into the reckless and self-harming motive of a voodoo doll. I could see Voodoll learning it instead of Close Combat/Aura Sphere if not evolved in time.

TM01 - Work Up
TM06 – Toxic
TM08 – Bulk Up
TM10 – Hidden Power
TM11 – Sunny Day
TM12 – Taunt
TM15 – Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM21 – Frustration
TM23 - Smack Down
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM26 – Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM29 – Psychic
TM31 – Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM41 – Torment
TM42 – Façade
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM46 – Thief
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round
TM52 – Focus Blast
TM56 – Fling
TM59 - Brutal Swing
TM60 - Quash
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 – Payback
TM67 - Smart Strike
TM68 – Giga Impact
TM71 – Stone Edge
TM73 – Thunder Wave
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 – Rock Slide
TM83 - Infestation
TM85 – Dream Eater
TM87 – Swagger
TM88 – Sleep Talk
TM90 – Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM95 - Snarl
TM97 - Dark Pulse
TM100 - Confide
* Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon are required.
* Double Team, Round and Confide are universal.
* Work Up and Low Sweep are very common among Fighting-types.
* Bulldoze and Smack Down are mostly implied by Earthquake and Stone Edge.
* Smart Strike due to its needle, as already discussed.
* I can see Brutal Swing as frustrated flailing.
* Similarly, I can see Snarl as threatening muffled screaming.
* Quash and Embargo represent Voodoom's hindering capabilities.
* Infestation is meant as an implementation of tormenting the opponent.
* Note that Dark Pulse has merely changed number between generations.

After You
Captivate*
Counter
Drain Punch*
Focus Punch*
Foul Play
Ice Punch
Knock Off
Low Kick
Magic Coat
Metronome
Mimic
Mud Slap
Natural Gift*
Nightmare
Pain Split
Shock Wave*
Snatch*
Snore
Spite
Thunder Punch
Uproar
Vacuum Wave

* See Quash and previous discussion for After You.
* Foul Play is both very fitting and very common among Dark-types.
* Thunder Punch is mostly for consistency with Thunderbolt.
* Marked moves are simply tutors which were

Ally Switch (TM51 in G5)
Endure (TM58 in G4)
Power-up Punch (TM98 G6)
Retaliate (TM67 in G5)
Rock Smash
Secret Power (TM94 in ORAS)
Strength (HM04 in G6)
* Power-up Punch is common (universal?) among Fighting-types with arms.
* Secret Power is universal.
* I have also listed Ally Switch and Retaliate as (G6/7) egg moves, since I feel they are the most thematically fitting.

Other considered moves:

* I don't see specific reasons for Dual Chop unless it is universal among Fighting-types.
* I have considered Tearful Look, but decided against it as I feel Voodoom is too masochistic to try to prevent the foe from hurting it.
* While Voodoom does get voice-based moves (Uproar and Perish Song), neither strongly implies Hyper Voice.
* I would have included Final Gambit, but I feel it might end up being too useful.
* Other moves I am considering due to their flavour benefits but I fear might be too useful are Double-edge, Leech Life, Flail/Reversal and Destiny Bond. I appreciate input on all of these.

Please let me know if the format is incorrect.
If I remember correctly, you can't add moves from Gen 4 and earlier. If you CAN add them, then I agree with your moves, especially with the level-up moves. However, I still like Magic Room, but to each their own.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
Your submission isn't illegal if it has moves from before Gen 5, but since these moves were available during Voodoom's process, I'd rather see moves from Gen 5 through 7. Since Voodoom had access to Spark and Thunder Punch at the time of its creation, I'm not liking these moves as much. It's not like Thunderbolt is the first Electric-type move that Voodoom has had access to either since it already has access to Shock Wave and Charge. If we decided to add Wild Charge, then it'd make more sense I guess.

I'm also not really liking how moves are getting shoehorned into the level up movepool in some entries. If a Pokemon gets a new move in its level up movepool, it's either a Heart Scale move, it gets tacked on to the end, a move gets learned later, or the levels shift place. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this though.
 
Final Submission

Bold = New
Underlined = Required or Universal

- Wrap
- Revenge
- Night Slash
- Astonish
- Copycat
- Pain Split
- Spite
7 Pain Split
11 Spite
15 Grudge
19 Charge
20 Follow Me
25 Pin Missile
30 Faint Attack
35 Close Combat
40 Acupressure
45 Aura Sphere
50 Substitute
55 Beat Up
60 Nasty Plot


I decided to add only Nasty Plot, given that it is the main move of the update. Level 60 seems reasonable, and keeps the 5 level pattern.

Perish Song (Jynx)
Smelling Salts (Hariyama)
Screech (Arbok)
Pursuit (Primeape)
Memento (Skuntank)
Imprison (Stantler)
Mach Punch (Infernape)
Baton Pass (Volbeat)
Curse (Camerupt)
Quick Guard (Hitmonchan)
Hex (Vulpix)


-Curse seemed like an obvious move to include, even more after what Menshay said.
-Hex fits perfectly with Voodoom theme.
-Quick Guard serves as a nod to the "Perfect Partner" concept while being reasonably common for a Fighting-type. I chose it over Wide Guard because its usually given to faster Pokémon, while Wide Guard is preferred for bulkier and slower ones.

TM 01 - Work Up
TM 06 – Toxic
TM 08 – Bulk Up
TM 10 – Hidden Power
TM 11 – Sunny Day
TM 12 – Taunt
TM 15 – Hyper Beam
TM 17 – Protect
TM 21 – Frustration
TM 24 - Thunderbolt
TM 26 – Earthquake
TM 27 – Return
TM 29 – Psychic
TM 31 – Brick Break
TM 32 - Double Team
TM 41 – Torment
TM 42 – Façade
TM 44 – Rest
TM 45 – Attract
TM 46 – Thief
TM 47 - Low Sweep
TM 48 - Round

TM 52 – Focus Blast
TM 56 – Fling
TM 59 - Brutal Swing
TM 66 – Payback
TM 67 - Smart Strike
TM 68 – Giga Impact
TM 71 – Stone Edge
TM 73 – Thunder Wave
TM 78 - Bulldoze
TM 80 – Rock Slide
TM 83 - Infestation
TM 85 – Dream Eater
TM 87 – Swagger
TM 88 – Sleep Talk
TM 90 – Substitute
TM 91 - Flash Cannon
TM 95 - Snarl

TM 97 - Dark Pulse
TM 100- Confide


-Thunderbolt/Flash Cannon are required.
-Double Team/Round/Confide are universally learned moves.
-Work Up/Low Sweep are pretty standard for a Fighting-type.
-Brutal Swing is usually learned by Pokémon holding things (like Farfetch'd, Marowak and Conkeldurr).
-Smart Strike is included due to Voodoom's needle.
-Bulldoze is practically required due to Earthquake presence in the original movepool.
-Infestation can be seen as Voodoom commanding the bugs living inside the doll.
-Snarl is learned by most Dark-types, and I don't think Voodoom should be an exemption.

Ice Punch
Mud Slap
Uproar
Snore
Vacuum Wave
Pain Split
Spite
Magic Coat
Low Kick
Knock Off
After You
Foul Play


-After You is another move related to the original concept of Voodoom, being useful only for helping its partner in Doubles.
-Foul Play is standard for a Dark-type, and fits Voodoom very well.

-Counter
-Metronome
-Mimic
-Nightmare


I didn't want to add any more Egg Moves, so I decided to include them as Event-exclusive moves, which highlights these 4 weird inclusions in the original movepool.

Focus Punch (TM 01 in Gen 4)
Shock Wave (TM 34 in Gen 4)
Snatch (TM 49 in Gen 4)
Endure (TM 58 in Gen 4)
Drain Punch (TM 60 in Gen 4)
Captivate (TM 78 in Gen 4)
Natural Gift (TM 83 in Gen 4)
Secret Power (TM 43 in Gen 4 and TM 94 in ORAS)
Strength (HM 04 in Gen 4/5/6)
Rock Smash (TM 94 in Gen 5/XY and HM 06 in Gen 5/ORAS)
Retaliate (TM 67 in Gen 5/6)
Power-Up Punch (TM 98 in Gen 6)


Retaliate/Power-Up Punch are almost-universal moves for Fighting-types.

After You
Brutal Swing
Bulldoze
Confide
Curse
Double Team
Flash Cannon
Foul Play
Hex
Infestation
Low Sweep
Nasty Plot
Power-Up Punch
Quick Guard
Retaliate
Round
Thunderbolt
Smart Strike
Snarl
Work Up


Notable Omissions:
-Ally Switch
-Echoed Voice
-Hyper Voice
-Magic Room
-Thunder Punch

So, that's it for now. I might edit this later if I change my mind or I'm forgetting something.
EDIT: Finished
 
Last edited:

jas61292

used substitute
is a Community Contributoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Final Submission

New moves are in bold.

- Wrap
- Revenge
- Night Slash
- Astonish
- Copycat
- Pain Split
- Spite
7 Pain Split
11 Spite
15 Grudge
19 Charge
20 Follow Me
25 Pin Missile
30 Faint Attack
35 Hex
40 Acupressure
45 Close Combat
50 Substitute
55 Beat Up
60 Aura Sphere
65 Foul Play
I only really wanted to add new moves to Voodoom's level up pool, and not that many at that. Of all the moves I wanted, Hex and Foul Play seemed most fitting here. As a very strong and thematic move, I decided to make Foul Play its new capstone, and simply extended its pattern of learning a move every 5 levels out a bit further. Hex, however, didn't seem like as late of a move to learn, so I put it right in the middle at 35, and pushed back its super strong STAB moves a bit to compensate.

Baton Pass
Counter (Hitmonchan)
Imprison
Memento
Metronome (Granbull)
Mimic (Mr. Mime)
Mach Punch
Nasty Plot (Hypno)
Nightmare (Hypno)
Perish Song
Pursuit
Smellingsalt
Screech
The only new move to Voodoom here is Nasty Plot. While not quite the same, I liked the idea of it being similar to Lucario and actually getting this move through its pre evolution. But because I don't really want to do anything like claiming it is prevo level up only, the best place to fit it is in the egg movepool. And of course, since it is not a tutor or TM, this is really the only place to put it other than Level Up.

In addition, I also moved a number of moves into the egg movepool that Voodoom already knew, for another reason: Voodoom knows them despite it not technically being possible. Basically, Voodoom is a 4th gen Pokemon. However, its original movepool has it learning a number of tutor moves that only existed as tutors in 3rd gen. As these would be impossible for it to get, I just made these moves egg moves so that Voodoom can keep them, but have them make logical sense. Fortunately, every single one of these is learnable via egg move without needing to resort to Smeargle. These moves are the ones listed in Italics.

TM06 – Toxic
TM08 – Bulk Up
TM10 – Hidden Power
TM11 – Sunny Day
TM12 – Taunt
TM15 – Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM21 – Frustration
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM26 – Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM29 – Psychic
TM31 – Brick Break
TM41 – Torment
TM42 – Façade
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round

TM46 – Thief
TM52 – Focus Blast
TM56 – Fling
TM58 – Endure
TM66 – Payback
TM67 - Smart Strike
TM68 – Giga Impact
TM71 – Stone Edge
TM73 – Thunder Wave
TM79 – Dark Pulse
TM80 – Rock Slide
TM85 – Dream Eater
TM87 – Swagger
TM88 – Sleep Talk
TM90 – Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM95 - Snarl
TM100 - Confide
Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon are competitive moves that we voted to add, and both happen to be TMs. Confide and Round are universal TMs that all Pokemon who can learn TMs get, and Voodoom is no exception. Beyond those, the only three additions here are Low Sweep, which is thematically the same as Low Kick which it already knows, Snarl, which is a typical move for Dark types, and Smart Strike, which is thematic with it using its pin.

Captivate (Gen 4 TM)
Drain Punch (Gen 4 TM / Gen 5 & 6 Tutor)
Focus Punch (Gen 4 TM / Gen 6 Tutor)
Ice Punch (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Knock Off (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Low Kick (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Magic Coat (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Magic Room (Gen 5 & 6 Tutor)
Mud Slap (Gen 4 Tutor)
Natural Gift (TM83 in Gen 4)
Pain Split
Power-Up Punch (Gen 6 TM)
Retaliate (Gen 5 & 6 TM)
Rock Smash (HM06 in Gen 6)
Secret Power (TM94 in Gen 6 ORAS)
Shock Wave (TM34 in Gen 4)
Snatch (TM49 in Gen 4)
Snore (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Spite (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Strength (Gen 4, 5 & 6 HM)
Uproar (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Vacuum Wave(Gen 4 Tutor)
Finally, there are three more new moves that would only be acquired in gens 5 and 6. First is Magic Room, which is one of my favorite additions, as it plays on the fact that voodoo is a type of magic. A lot of the Pokemon that learn Magic Room are associated with magic, so Voodoom would fit right in. Second, we have Power-Up Punch, which is on almost every fighting type that is capable of punching. And lastly, there is retaliate, another move that almost all fighting types possess.
 
Last edited:

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Final Submission:

Level-Up Moves:
- Revenge
- Night Slash
- Wrap
- Astonish
- Copycat
Evo: Revenge
7 Pain Split
11 Spite
15 Grudge
19 Charge
20 Follow Me
22 Tearful Look
25 Pin Missile
30 Feint Attack
35 Close Combat
40 Acupressure
45 Aura Sphere
48 Hex
50 Substitute
55 Beat Up
61 Foul Play


General Notes: I cleaned up Voodoom's L1 moves a bit, and duplicated Revenge as an evolution move (a new mechanic in Gen 7). When Voodoll evolves into Voodoom it changes from Normal/Dark to Fighting/Dark, so a Fighting-type move was the most appropriate.

Additions here:
Tearful Look: Every Pokemon that gets it currently gets it at L22, Voodoll and Voodoom seem the type to play on the opponent's emotions before striking.
Hex: This is a great flavor addition that works off of Voodoom's voodoo inspiration. Pokemon get Hex at varying levels, even Ghost types. 48 Seemed a good aesthetic fit, as Voodoom moves away from direct attack-based physical attacks in its early movepool into conditional ones like Beat Up and Foul Play later.
Foul Play: I agree with many others that this a great capstone move for Voodoom, and the fact it is was a prior gen Tutor helps its case.

Egg Moves:
(Egg Groups: Human-like / Field)

Baton Pass
Counter (Hitmonchan/Sawk, etc.)
Imprison
Mach Punch
Memento
Metronome (Hitmonchan/Granbull, etc.)
Mimic (Mr. Mime/Alakazam, etc.)

Nasty Plot (Hypno/Infernape, etc.)
Nightmare (Hypno/Alakazam, etc.)
Perish Song
Power Trip (Krookodile/Primeape, etc.)
Pursuit
Screech
Smelling Salts


General Notes: Like others, I wanted to make Voodoom's prior Tutor quirks into legal moves, so Counter, Metronome, Mimic, and Nightmare were made into Egg moves.

Additions here:
Nasty Plot: A required move.
Power Trip: No, there is not a nefarious all +1 Z-Move squeezed in the movepool anywhere. Power Trip pays homage to Voodoom's original role as a stat-passer, and as the only Pokemon that learn it do so are Krookodile at L1 and Mankey, Sandile, and Pancham lines by breeding (Voodoom can breed with all of them), it makes most sense as an Egg Move.

TM List
TM01 - Work Up
TM06 – Toxic
TM08 – Bulk Up
TM10 – Hidden Power
TM11 – Sunny Day
TM12 – Taunt
TM15 – Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM21 – Frustration
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM26 – Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM29 – Psychic
TM31 – Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM41 – Torment
TM42 – Façade
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM47 - Low Sweep
TM48 - Round

TM46 – Thief
TM52 – Focus Blast
TM56 – Fling
TM58 – Endure
TM66 – Payback
TM67 - Smart Strike
TM68 – Giga Impact
TM71 – Stone Edge
TM73 – Thunder Wave
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM79 – Dark Pulse
TM80 – Rock Slide
TM85 – Dream Eater
TM87 – Swagger
TM88 – Sleep Talk
TM90 – Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM95 - Snarl

TM97 - Dark Pulse
TM100 - Confide


Additions Here:
Confide/Double Team/Round: Universal TMs.
Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt: Required Moves.
Bulldoze: Most Pokemon with EQ get Bulldoze, especially Fighting types with EQ.
Low Sweep: Bipedal Fighting-types get Low Sweep almost universally.
Snarl: Dark types learn Snarl almost universally, also fits Voodoom's personality.
Smart Strike: As a homage to BatCAP alone, this is a great flavor move.
Work Up: Universal on Normal and/or Fighting types.

Transfer Only:
After You (Gen 5 & 6 Tutor)
Captivate (Gen 4 TM)
Drain Punch (Gen 4 TM / Gen 5 & 6 Tutor)
Focus Punch (Gen 4 TM / Gen 6 Tutor)
Foul Play (Gen 5 & 6 Tutor)
Hyper Voice (Gen 5 & 6 Tutor)
Ice Punch (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Knock Off (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Low Kick (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Magic Coat (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Magic Room (Gen 5 & 6 Tutor)
Mud Slap (Gen 4 Tutor)
Natural Gift (TM83 in Gen 4)
Pain Split (Gen 5 & 6 Tutor)
Power-Up Punch (Gen 6 TM)
Retaliate (Gen 5 & 6 TM)
Rock Smash (HM06 in Gen 6)
Secret Power (TM94 in Gen 6 ORAS)
Shock Wave (TM34 in Gen 4)
Snatch (TM49 in Gen 4)
Snore (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Spite (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Strength (Gen 4, 5 & 6 HM)
Uproar (Gen 4, 5 & 6 Tutor)
Vacuum Wave(Gen 4 Tutor)

Past Gen TMs:
Captivate (TM78 in Gen 4)
Drain Punch (TM60 in Gen 4)
Focus Punch (TM01 in Gen 4)
Natural Gift (TM83 in Gen 4)
Rock Smash (HM06 in Gen 6)
Secret Power (TM94 in Gen 6 ORAS)
Shock Wave (TM34 in Gen 4)
Snatch (TM49 in Gen 4)
Strength (HM04 in Gen 6)


Additions Here:
After You: An excellent flavor move for a partner-based Pokemon, and fits with Voodoom's trickster personality.
Hyper Voice: Voodoom can wail into a Perish Song, Hyper Voice works as well.
Magic Room: Voodoo inspiration makes this a great flavor move.
Power-Up Punch: Universal among Bipedal Fighting types.
Retaliate: Nearly universal among Fighting types, also works with Voodoom's "Revenge" themed moves.

Additions Index:
After You (Past Gen Tutor)
Bulldoze (TM)
Confide (Universal TM)
Double Team (Universal TM)
Flash Cannon (Required Move, TM)
Foul Play (Level-Up, Past Gen Tutor)
Hex (Level-Up)
Hyper Voice (Past Gen Tutor)
Low Sweep (TM)
Magic Room (Past Gen Tutor)
Nasty Plot (Required Move, Egg)
Power Trip (Egg)
Power-Up Punch (Past Gen TM)
Retaliate (Past Gen TM)
Round (Universal TM)
Smart Strike (TM)
Snarl (TM)
Tearful Look (Level-Up)
Thunderbolt (Required Move, TM)
Work Up (TM)
Total: 20 Moves
 
Last edited:
I'm also not really liking how moves are getting shoehorned into the level up movepool in some entries. If a Pokemon gets a new move in its level up movepool, it's either a Heart Scale move, it gets tacked on to the end, a move gets learned later, or the levels shift place. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this though.
I seem to recall some cases (especially in XY) where moves were just added in the middle of a learnset without adjustments, but I cannot actually remember any (and it actually doesn't fell right, that's why I shifted most levels in my submissions). However there are definitely cases of movepools being shifted around with the additions of new moves, compare Skunktank's generation VI and VII for a concrete example.

(By the way how did generation III tutors end up in the movepool without anyone noticing, gonna add those to my egg move list as well.)

On a more important note, I feel not enough attention has been given to the odd implications of several Z-status moves. For example, Z-Ally Switch gives a definitely relevant +2 in speed; is this accepted on a simple consistency update?

EDIT: Here's a list of extra effects for moves proposed so far:
- Ally Switch: +2 speed
- Quash, After You, Sing: +1 speed
- Curse, Work Up: extra +1 attack (exactly like Bulk Up, so they shoudn't be a problem)
- Embargo: +1 special attack (outclassed by Nasty Plot)
- Wide/Quick Guard, Tearful Look: +1 defense
- Magic Room, Eerie Impulse imp: +1 special defense
 
Last edited:

jas61292

used substitute
is a Community Contributoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
On a more important note, I feel not enough attention has been given to the odd implications of several Z-status moves. For example, Z-Ally Switch gives a definitely relevant +2 in speed; is this accepted on a simple consistency update?
While I think I have talked about this before, I want to, both as a moderator and an update leader (if not specifically for Voodoom), try and clear up some misconceptions people may have about consistency updates. To put it in the most broad strokes, while consistency updates are not competitive updates, they are also not non-competitive updates. It is all about giving our Pokemon moves that are logical and flavorful additions they would reasonably have gotten between their creation and the present. While we do not want to give anything that would be overbearing or would go strongly against its competitive concept or current role, our goal with these moves is not and should not be to avoid every option that might be competitive.

Now obviously, if you personally think a specific move would be an issue, feel free to argue that. But in general, the questions you should be asking yourself with consistency moves are:

A) Is it a logical move to receive in a generational update?
B) Is there any argument based on competitive or concept related grounds that the Pokemon should not get the move?

If the answer to A is no, or the answer to B is yes, then it is probably not a move we should be looking at. However, it should be noted that for B, simply saying that it will make them better is not enough of an argument. Pokemon get better and worse on generation shifts all the time, and our goal is not to keep things exactly as is.
 
Final Submission

For ease of reading, I've broken this submission into categories in separate hide tags. Detailed flavour and other reasoning is found in the hides, while a quick summary of changes is found below each category.

New moves are bolded; moves that have been transposed or copied to a new category are italicised.
– Night Slash
– Metronome
– Copycat
– Wrap
– Revenge
Evo. Dark Pulse
3 Astonish
7 Spite
10 Pursuit
15 Grudge
18 Feint Attack
20 Follow Me
25 Pin Missile
30 Charge
35 Close Combat
40 Acupressure
45 Aura Sphere
50 Substitute
55 Mimic
60 Beat Up
65 Pain Split

If we take the Dark- and Fighting-types introduced in Generation IV, and compare their level-up sets in Generation IV with their modern, Generation VII ones, two distinct trends emerge. On the one hand, you have species like Spiritomb, whose moveset is move-for-move and level-for-level identical between Sinnoh and Alola. On the other, you have species like Lucario and Gallade, where moves have been introduced and dropped, levels have been messed with, and the order of moves has changed quite dramatically.

My proposal for Voodoom's Generation VII movepool is not quite as drastic as all that, but it has been manipulated a little. For one thing, it's larger; where the original movepool has 17 distinct moves, this one has 21. Some moves have been shifted around; I've stripped out the duplicates of Pain Split and Spite, moved some attacking moves before level 25 (in Voodoom's Gen IV pool, it has none that it learns without a Heart Scale before Pin Missile) and pulled in Pursuit from the egg moves pool (since it needed a weak-ish Dark-type move for its lower levels). Metronome and Mimic have migrated into this segment of the movepool as well, since Voodoom was never supposed to have access to them as Gen III tutor moves, and Dark Pulse gets learned upon evolution (which is just as well, since there are no other special Dark-type moves here).

But some things never change. You'll notice, for example, that the pattern of Voodoom gaining moves every five levels from Level 20 up has been retained (even if it extends a little further now); and of course, since no move deletions are possible, everything from its Gen IV pool is still here, if reordered a touch.
Summary of changes: Duplicates of Pain Split and Spite removed; Dark Pulse, Metronome, Mimic, and Pursuit added; some moves reordered.

TM01 Work Up
TM06 Toxic
TM08 Bulk Up
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM24 Thunderbolt
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM29 Psychic
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM47 Low Sweep
TM48 Round
TM49 Echoed Voice

TM52 Focus Blast
TM56 Fling
TM58 Endure
TM66 Payback
TM67 Smart Strike
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM73 Thunder Wave
TM78 Bulldoze
TM79 Dark Pulse
TM80 Rock Slide
TM85 Dream Eater
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon
TM95 Snarl
TM100 Confide


I'm not going to lie: I don't particularly like Snarl for Voodoom, but flavour-wise, there's a pattern of sound-based moves in Voodoom's movepool (Perish Song, Screech, Uproar, arguably Mimic). So rather than trying to suppress this pattern, I've leaned into it - Snarl is included, and Echoed Voice is here as well (and there's another new sound move in the tutors).

All the required new TMs (Thunderbolt, Flash Cannon, Double Team, Round, Confide) are here, of course, and the ever-popular (and thematically very appropriate) Smart Strike. The three other TMs I've given Voodoom are simply flavour that a lot of other Fighting-types get (Low Sweep, Work Up, Bulldoze to go with Earthquake).
Summary of changes: Bulldoze, Confide, Double Team, Echoed Voice, Flash Cannon, Low Sweep, Round, Smart Strike, Snarl, Thunderbolt and Work Up added.

Baton Pass
Counter (Slakoth, Meditite, Lycanroc-Midnight and others)
Hex (Vulpix, Dunsparce, Absol)
Imprison
Mach Punch
Memento
Nightmare (Hypno, Munna)
Perish Song
Pursuit
Quick Guard (Lucario, Sawk, Mienfoo and others)
Screech
Smelling Salts
Wide Guard (Mr. Mime, Throh, Mienshao and others)

Five additions here, bringing Voodoom's total number of egg moves to 13, which is a large number but not obnoxiously so. (And hey - for a Pokémon named Voodoom, you might say 13 is exactly the right number of egg moves to have.)

Nightmare and Counter are straightforward transpositions of Gen III tutors, and Hex fits well with the occult theme surrounding Voodoom. Quick Guard and Wide Guard are here because they're moves that many species in the Field and Human-Like egg groups get (in fact, of the six non-CAP evolution lines that are both Field and Human-Like, four get Quick Guard). Each of these two moves is also apt from a flavour point of view - Quick Guard reflecting Voodoom's not-insignificant Speed, Wide Guard demonstrating its original purpose as a partner.
Summary of changes: Counter, Hex, Nightmare, Quick Guard and Wide Guard added.

Growl
Tearful Look
Nasty Plot


What's that, you say? Pre-evolution moves? Why, yes! We're in a unique CAP situation when it comes to remodelling Voodoom's movepool here. In most CAPs, we do the movepool poll before the evolutions poll, and so our movepools can't include pre-evolution moves (since we don't know if the CAP is even going to have any prevolutions at that point and we can't pre-empt the later poll). This time, though, it's different: we know that Voodoll exists (even if it's basically just a name and a typing right now), and so pre-evolution moves are a possibility.

As a bonus, having pre-evolution moves interferes not one bit with Voodoom's sets and doesn't introduce any incompatibilities; it's just a cool flavour thing, and since we have the opportunity, why not?

The most notable thing here is obviously Nasty Plot, which I chose to make a pre-evolution move for two reasons. Firstly, there's a small but significant number of evolutionary lines that only get Nasty Plot in the lowest form (I'm thinking of Riolu, Pichu and Chimchar), so giving Nasty Plot only to Voodoll fits into a neat pattern. Secondly, I like the idea of Voodoll sitting in a corner, quietly plotting, until it evolves and has only one thing on its mind - vengeance - thus precluding further Nasty Plotting.

The other two pre-evolution moves I've bestowed upon Voodoll here are Growl and Tearful Look - Growl because it fits nicely into the pattern of sound-based moves that Voodoll and its evolution learn, Tearful Look because Voodoll is just a poor little doll (by contrast, I cannot imagine anything losing its combative spirit if the Frankenstein-like Voodoom gets teary-eyed).
Summary of changes: Growl, Nasty Plot and Tearful Look added.

Bind
Drain Punch
Focus Punch

Foul Play
Hyper Voice

Ice Punch
Knock Off
Low Kick
Magic Coat
Magic Room
Mud-Slap
Pain Split
Shock Wave
Snatch

Snore
Spite
Uproar
Vacuum Wave

A bunch of moves have migrated into the tutor section (the ones that used to be TMs) and more have shifted out (those that were only available through Gen III tutor), but there are only four actually-new moves here, all of which are fairly straightforward in terms of flavour.

Foul Play is a common tutor move for Dark-types and has a subtle voodoo vibe (taking over the victim's abilities to harm them); similarly, Magic Room has the occult implications that Voodoom is just asking for. Hyper Voice is another sound-related move with a reasonable BP but little competitive implication - yes, its Z-Move has a base power of 175, but it's not particularly useful compared to Psychic, Thunderbolt or Flash Cannon. Finally, since the essence of voodoo is sympathetic magic, Voodoom is magically bound to its victim - so Bind (introduced in Gen I but only a tutor in Gens V and VI) is a perfect flavour choice.
Summary of changes: Counter, Metronome, Mimic and Nightmare removed; Bind, Drain Punch, Focus Punch, Foul Play, Hyper Voice, Magic Room, Shock Wave and Snatch added.

Captivate
Natural Gift
Power-Up Punch
Retaliate
Secret Power

Strength
Rock Smash

Most of these are holdovers from Voodoom's Gen IV TM list; the only additions (apart from the near-universal Secret Power) are Power-Up Punch and Retaliate. The former is to help Voodoom fit in with its fellow Fighting-types, while the latter speaks very nicely to the concept of the voodoo doll as a means of exacting vengeance.
Summary of changes: Power-Up Punch, Retaliate and Secret Power added.

Bind
Bulldoze
Confide
Double Team
Echoed Voice
Flash Cannon
Foul Play
Growl
Hex
Hyper Voice
Low Sweep
Magic Room
Nasty Plot
Power-Up Punch
Quick Guard
Retaliate
Round
Secret Power
Smart Strike
Snarl
Tearful Look
Thunderbolt
Wide Guard
Work Up
Counter (tutor > level-up)
Dark Pulse (TM > copied to level-up)
Drain Punch (TM > tutor)
Focus Punch (TM > tutor)
Metronome (tutor > level-up)
Mimic (tutor > level-up)
Nightmare (tutor > level-up)
Pursuit (egg move > copied to level-up)
Shock Wave (TM > tutor)
Snatch (TM > tutor)

Overall summary: This update to Voodoom's movepool is distinctive for its many sound-based moves, its occult- and voodoo-themed flavour updates, and the unique positioning of Nasty Plot as a pre-evolution move. It's on the larger end when it comes to moves added (24 in total), but I'm confident that I've backed up all my changes with solid flavour reasoning - so if you'd like to give Voodoom all the flavour it's been missing for three generations, this might be the movepool for you!
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure what to think about the Gen 3 tutor moves. Voodoom is not the only Gen 4 CAP with them, almost all of them learn at least Mimic by Move Tutor. This makes me think this was a deliberate decision, not just a silly mistake, and this therefore I believe they just should be left as it is, its not like all Pokemon can learn their old Tutor moves in newer generations. It's not that I think relearning them is a bad idea, I just see it as unnecessary. However, if someone can confirm me that their were indeed added by mistake, I'll add them to the Egg Moves list.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
I'm loving these submissions so far! I'm going to extend the deadline for an additional 24 hours since I see a lot of people still have WIP posts. Yeah it's still 7 hours off, but I have something else I want to announce.

All submissions must address the following moves: Counter, Metronome, Mimic, and Nightmare. These are the Gen 3 Tutor moves that Voodoom somehow got. While it's a paradox of the past, I'd like to address this issue for today's standards, so they must be in Voodoom's movepool somehow or another. This way we won't have to worry about it for at least Gen 7 and onward.
 
It's been more than 48 hours, is this moving on? For the record, there are currently eight submissions three of which are marked as in progress.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
Sorry, it's actually been less than 24 hours (I extended the deadline to about 18 hours ago), and I had a big test yesterday. Expect the poll soon.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
Deck Knight's submission has won Voodoom's updated movepool! This marks the end of Voodoom's update.

To sum up this update, Voodoom:
  • Gained Nasty Plot to buff its rather mediocre damage output, to refer back to its origins, and give it two good sets, Nasty Plot wallbreaker and Nasty Plot Baton Passer
  • Has a Hidden Ability, Cursed Body.
  • Can now access to two more Special coverage moves: Flash Cannon and Thunderbolt.
  • Will generally look like a Generation 7 Pokemon.
  • Will no longer be D-rank on Viability Rankings :D
This was a great and fun update thread! I learned a lot myself, and I hope everyone did too. Thanks for everyone's participation! Stay tuned for the next update thread!

(I missed music at the beginning of the thread, so here have some)

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top