CAP Updates: Cyclohm Discussion (Complete)

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snake

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Cyclohm
Abilities: Shield Dust / Static
Stats: 108 / 60 / 118 / 112 / 70 / 80
Welcome to the Cyclohm Update thread! In this thread, we will be updating Cyclohm to Generation 7 standards.

Cyclohm was the eighth CAP Project in Generation 4. Below is it's concept (note that this will look much simpler than today's concepts):
Name: Neglected Ability

Description: This pokemon will have an ability [or two] that is currently undervalued (but possibly very helpful) in the metagame but isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work.
Cyclohm has access to two underutilized abilities: Shield Dust and Static. Combined with excellent stats and a colorful movepool, Cyclohm remains a solid choice for today's metagame. Static allows Cyclohm to become a premier physical wall. The combination with Slack Off, Static, and Discharge makes it very frustrating for the opposing team not to get paralyzed every turn. Access to Fire Blast allows Cyclohm to be the only reliable defensive counter to Belly Drum Cawmodore. Shield Dust allows Cyclohm to avoid getting inflicted with secondary effects, such as Scald burns, Sludge Bomb poison, and Zen Headbutt flinches, making it generally the better pick for more offensive sets. However, both abilities can be used on both defensive and offensive sets alike. Colorful coverage including STAB Electric- and Dragon-type moves, Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, and Ice Beam allow Cyclohm to run effective offensive sets; though its defensive sets is generally more reliable.

Because of these traits, Cyclohm doesn't need too much of a buff from Updates. However, it needs a Hidden Ability, there are a few competitive moves that Cyclohm could have picked up along the way that warrant discussion, and it's level-up movepool needs a little work to look like a Generation 7 movepool. Without further ado, let's get started!

First and foremost, Cyclohm needs a Hidden Ability. Because Cyclohm uses its two current abilities extremely well, I don't see a point in giving it a third competitive ability. Therefore, Cyclohm's Hidden Ability will be a flavor ability. Here are a few guiding questions to get this thread started.

1. What flavor abilities would fit on Cyclohm by its design or typing?
2. Why does the ability from Question 1 hold little-to-no competitive value?

Expect this phase to remain short: around 72 hours. If discussion is still going by then, I'll give an extension.
 
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Even though ASB is mostly filler, Cyclohm can wield Overcoat in that forum. I support this Ability because Cyclohm is a cloud dragon that looks like he could have an immunity to sand and hail. He seems to have some power over rain and hail, even if he can't control sand that well.
 
I suggest Cloud Nine as it is a big cloud. There's no way it can overshadow static and shiled dust. Also like the above post, it looks like it could control the weather.

But with overcoat, i don't really like it. Even though it's niche, it can be immune to powder moves like spore too.

Oh also lets give it illuminate
 

Dogfish44

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Aesthetically, Cyclohm has a lot of options it can tap into. Unfortunately, I don't believe anyone can really justify Fluffy on 'er from a competitive angle, and ditto Galvanise.

Overcoat is the current addition that ASB made in non-canonical updates, and remains my favourite option due to weather and the similarities with Shield Dust. Cloud Nine also works on this front.

With Krilowatt getting Minus, I'm also inclined to support Plus as an option, since that seems fairly nifty.

Finally, if we wish to stick to a more weather-based theme, then I will make a horrible pun and suggest Pressure. Cyclohm's size and style feels like it would fit right in as a flavour option.
 
Luckily for us, Shield Dust and Static are already pretty flavorful abilities. As far as a third ability goes, it's hard to go wrong with Plus or Minus. They're useless in singles and fairly common hidden abilities for Electric-types. I'm leaning towards Plus if only because we just gave Krilowatt Minus.
 
(whover made this beauty I love you, top 3 favorite CAPs)

As far as flavour moves go, Overcoat is probably the most fitting one out of the bunch, it's a dragon.....wearing clouds. Plus/Minus can work to.

Drizzle could be a good addition since it is a storm cloud after all.
Never ever.

Edit: After looking trough the list of current abilities, there were some more that caught my eye:
-Natural Cure, but mainly because Altaria gets it to
-Illuminate (lighting can make a lot of flashy spectacles so who's to say it can't be used to light up a room either)
-Galvanize and Aerilate (which are named Electric Skin and Sky Skin respectively), but there's to much competitive implication (also Aerilate is mostly given to mons that are part Flying, yeah its pre-evos are part Flying, but still) so I'm gonna leave them be.

As for Cloud Nine, yeah Cychlom is a cloud and Altaria is a cloud, but here's the thing: Cloud Nine's japanese name is "No weather", Altaria is supposed to be a normal cloud that you see everytime you look up in the sky, what kind of cloud is our three headed dragon? A storm cloud, which means rain and thunderstorm. So giving a ability like that to a storm bringing mon seems very wrong.
 
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Some flavour notes considering the original meanings of abilities (thanks to Bulbapedia and some Google Translate).

As a flavour note, Overcoat is originally Dust-proof; Pokémon with it always have some kind of shell (Cloyster, Forretress, Shelgon), armour (Mandibuzz, Kommo-o) or other kind of protection (Wormadam, Reuniclus, Leavanny). Cyclohm's cloud could be considered such a protection, so purely flavour-wise it would be appropriate.

Cloud Nine is a pun on "no weather/carefree"; Pokémon with it tend to have a sociable or jolly personality. As I am not aware of Cyclohm's purported personality I cannot specifically comment on it, though Altaria (and maybe Drampa) is an existing example of a cloud-based Pokémon with it. Speaking of flavour, does Cyclohm have Pokédex entries which could serve as inspiration?

Plus/Minus seem sort of lazy, but they would fit the way lightnings actually work (that is, they are caused by strong differences between the electric potential of clouds vs the ground).

(Actually if anything Shield Dust is the unfitting ability due to being originally related specifically to butterfly scales; note that I am not suggesting to change it.)
 

BP

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Personally I would love it if Cyclohm got Cloudnine. The reason for this is because it is a cloud Pokemon but that's not all just imagine this thing in some hypothetical fun UBER play. Cyclohm would be able to erase the effects of Primordial Sea and Desolate Land. Is this not some interesting thought. I really want Cloudnine to happen because it'd be a lot of fun to just theorymon with it.

Plus/Minus is not necessarily a bad idea as it is often found on Electric types. I would be for giving it Plus as we already gave Krilowatt Minus.

Overcoat is to Competitive spirited. With Overcoat Cyclohm is now able to switch in on powder moves and force switches. Amoonguss for example would have an issues with getting off a spore with Cyclohm still alive and well on the opposing team.

Pressure to me seems like a really good idea. It just makes sense when you talk about barometric pressure and whether and such. It is the second most appealing ability in my eyes in terms of Flavor.
 

Bughouse

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Broken record by this point lol, but Cloud Nine is a terrible choice. The original name in Japanese means "no weather," which clearly does not apply to a Pokemon based on thunderstorms.
 
Went through the full ability list; here are some potentially interesting finds:

- Damp fits a rainstorm, and I don't think Explosion and Aftermath are particularly common. It is currently distributed among Water-types plus Paras/Parasect.
- Hydration and Rain Dish are rain-related abilities.
- Water Veil is a potential reference to a raincloud, but only Water-types get it.
- Other abilities related to electricity or water are Storm Drain, Lightning Rod, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb and Motor Drive. They give immunities to types Cyclohm already resists, but their effects are likely too strong for a flavour ability.
 

G-Luke

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Overcoat, Plus, Pressure, Damp and Rain Dish are all solid choices for Cyclothm. I have to agree with Bughouse and the othersothers about Cloud Nine though. Cyclothm is made of thunderstorm cloyds, and Cloud Nine is all about clear skies / no weather.
 

jas61292

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I like the idea of giving it Plus as somewhat of a counterpart to Krilowatt, and it is also fitting simply as an electric type Pokemon. Damp is also a nice fitting ability, as clouds are made of water.

Also, in spite of its original meaning, I support Cloud Nine, because of just how fitting it sounds. Yes, I know it was "no weather," but, first off, we are not making this Pokemon in Japanese, so I really don't care. And secondly, I still think it would be kind of fitting, as it would be far and away it's worst ability. Cyclohm can benefit significantly from certain weathers, to the point that Cloud Nine could be seen to hinder it. Having an optional ability called "no weather" hinder a weather Pokemon is, to me, a more flavorful version of something like Stall on Sableye. No, no one will ever pick it, but the reason it is bad for it actually makes sense flavor wise, rather than just because it is a generically poor ability.
 

snake

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I've edited the second question in the OP to state "little to no competitive value" because while some abilities are flavorful, they might have a little competitive value.

Here's the second question one more time just for clarity.

2. Why does the ability from Question 1 hold little-to-no competitive value?

However, this ability will still be primarily based on flavor, so don't suggest inherently competitive abilities. I will deny any abilities in this thread that are too competitive. I've seen a few immunity abilities suggested so far; let's stay away from those.
 
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1. What flavor abilities would fit on Cyclohm by its design or typing?
I actually think that Minus may fit a bit more flavorfully than Plus, however either will work. The reasoning for this is due to how Lightning is generated (differences in charge between different parts of the cloud/the ground.) Minus, in particular, works best because Cloud-to-Ground Lightning is mostly negative in charge, due to the lower portions of clouds being negatively charged in Thunderstorms. Positive charged lightning does happen, but is a lot more rare due to the conditions needed. Sure Krillowatt is getting Minus as well, but Cyclohm getting Minus would definitely be a flavor and science win.

2. Why does the ability from Question 1 hold little-to-no competitive value?

Simple: it needs a partner to work. Since CAP is made for the singles metagame, there won't be a partner to take advantage of it, so it wouldn't have any use whatsoever. (Plus even then, it isn't like the abilities are overly common in doubles)
 
I am in favor of Cloud Nine. Altaria, another Dragon with a similar design, already gets it as its hidden ability, so its not like there's no presedent for giving this ability to cloud-based pokemon. Also, as a cloud, I can imagine Cyclohm being able to manipulate weather, so even just considering it's Japanese name, it could still fit.

Overcoat is cool too, even if it border on competitive.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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I am against Cloud Nine because I feel people are drastically underselling its competitive implications. Cloud Nine lets Cyclohm switch directly into Mega Charizard Y's Fire Blast, something that it doesn't want to do otherwise. It is a great ability on Cyclohm and would be a third competitive ability, not a flavor ability.

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cyclohm in Sun: 210-247 (50 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cyclohm: 140-165 (33.3 - 39.2%) -- 12.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cyclohm: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Sun Boosted Fire Blast is a deterrent for Cyclohm to switch in whereas Focus Blast is way less of one. Cloud Nine impacts this match up very much. I don't even think mentioning Dragon Pulse is all that relevant as it's inferior coverage on Zard Y to start with.

EDIT: I made this post before actually reading snake's weather hide tag. While snake is too reluctant to say here that he is against cloud nine, I think all of the calcs he provided are more than sufficient to proving that Cloud Nine is a competitive ability. So, I'm very much against it.
 
1. What flavor abilities would fit on Cyclohm by its design or typing?

I have a suggestion that while might be out there, makes sense if you think about it: Damp. So Cyclohm is based off of a storm cloud. Along with thunder and lightning, they bring rain. Clouds are formed by condensing liquid. Rain happens when the clouds get too heavy. You can infer that the clouds get really damp inside, and voilá! You get Damp! Since Cyclohm is based off of a storm cloud, this ability is something original (looks at Minus) while being a win for science!

2. Why does the ability from Question 1 hold little-to-no competitive value?

Self-destruct moves are never seen in CAP. The only good users of Explosion are Alolem (who is RU iirc) and Mega Glalie (who is in Limbo atm). Thusly, Damp is useless, especially next to Static and Shield Dust.
 

LucarioOfLegends

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1. What flavor abilities would fit on Cyclohm by its design or typing?
For a while now I have been in support of Plus/Minus as the ability that Cyclohm should get for a very long time. While it is a nice coinicidence that Krillowatt got Minus for its flavor ability, its only a nifty coincidence. The real reason is how it works well with the idea of thunderstorms and positively and negatively charged ions. This adds a bit of science to the justification, and I feel it works really well for it. Also Postive charged lightning is apparently rarer, adding to the dragon typing. So, I personally like Plus a bit more.

2. Why does the ability from Question 1 hold little-to-no competitive value?
While it has the possibility of being used with Krillowatt in CAP Doubles, that is not even close to an official metagame, as it is only really seen in room tours and CAPTT. Otherwise, it is pretty much useless in singles, as it requires a partner to be used at all.
 
I am against Plus and Minus. We already gave Minus to Krilowatt, and giving another CAP the same Ability is just lazy with so many other good options. Also, one of the main reasons why Minus was chosen was to balance the number of Pokemon that had them, as there were two evolution lines with Plus and only one with Minus (discounting Plusle/Minun and the Klink line because they have both). This would unbalance it again.

Clouds are just large masses of moisture, so even though it's not a Water-type, Damp is a very good choice. Overcoat and Water Veil aren't bad, either, and their protection against some types of residual damage shouldn't be an issue competitively because they're both 1/16th per turn and it already doesn't care that much about them because of Slack Off.
 
I am against Plus and Minus. We already gave Minus to Krilowatt, and giving another CAP the same Ability is just lazy with so many other good options. Also, one of the main reasons why Minus was chosen was to balance the number of Pokemon that had them, as there were two evolution lines with Plus and only one with Minus (discounting Plusle/Minun and the Klink line because they have both). This would unbalance it again.

Clouds are just large masses of moisture, so even though it's not a Water-type, Damp is a very good choice. Overcoat and Water Veil aren't bad, either, and their protection against some types of residual damage shouldn't be an issue competitively because they're both 1/16th per turn and it already doesn't care that much about them because of Slack Off.
Overcoat is a little too competitive for me, as it also blocks powder moves. As for Water Veil, my first thought jumps to a ring of water surrounding the Pokemon, similar to Aqua Ring's animation. I don't see this fitting on Cyclohm. Thanks for liking my idea for Damp tho :D
 

Quanyails

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I wish Pressure worked as a pun in Japanese! According to Wiktionary, the Japanese word for the ability Pressure only refers to psychological pressure, not air pressure. :(

I imagine Cyclohm's cloud more like Mareep's. It has Static and Shield Dust as abiltiies, which suggests that the cloud is actually wool, not water vapor. Hence, I think Damp and Water Veil don't fit.

With that in mind, Overcoat and Minus feel right to me. I'm sure that Cyclohm can use its wool to keep dust away and to gain a negative charge.
 
I wish Pressure worked as a pun in Japanese! According to Wiktionary, the Japanese word for the ability Pressure only refers to psychological pressure, not air pressure. :(

I imagine Cyclohm's cloud more like Mareep's. It has Static and Shield Dust as abiltiies, which suggests that the cloud is actually wool, not water vapor. Hence, I think Damp and Water Veil don't fit.

With that in mind, Overcoat and Minus feel right to me. I'm sure that Cyclohm can use its wool to keep dust away and to gain a negative charge.
If you dig back to the archive for Cyclohm, you see discussions about the weight of it. One person mentioned how water is heavier than [someone else in the discussion] gave it credit for. Normally, I would post a picture, but I don't have my PC with my right now. Just go look at the final product thread for Cyclohm.

As such, the assumption of it just being wool isn't all that true. This is another reason to give Damp, as we know for a FACT it is an actual cloud.
 
Well, there are many many many moves that could hypothetically make great flavor, like Drizzle, but those tend to be far too competitive so off the list right away. Overcoat I think is definitely too competitive because it gives Cyclohm a better matchup vs Sand teams and also gives it a much safer switch into Spore from Amoongus and Breloom, which I don't know if we want. Not to mention Tangrowth and Venusaur's Sleep Powder.

I think the best candidates are Hydration, Rain Dish, and Damp feel like the best options. Minus and Plus both makes sense flavor-wise, but I feel like it's the easy way out because literally any electric type we make could be given those abilities for flavor. Rain Dish and Hydration are a little shady though since they could arguably be used on Cyclohm with a Rain team, but I doubt it'd be particularly overwhelming. Damp seems like the best option.
 
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