Congratulations on making it to 500 with such an unoptimal team! In fact, it's so unoptimized that I can tell at a glance you got extremely lucky, if you were doing this legitimate at all. Do you have any battle videos against foes like Salazzle-3(focus sash, threatens your team with its coverage), Walrein-4/Abomasnow-3/Donphan-4(OHKO spammers that cannot be taken out before they act), Rotom-Frost-4/Drapion-4(bulky pokemon with secondary effects that threaten the team), and scarfers that can OHKO Lele (Terrakion-2, Darmanitan-4). If you don't could you at least post a threatlist or some form of guide against leads that trouble you? Because as soon as Global Link goes back up, people will try to reproduce your streak with your team, and if they aren't able to, you should provide tips as to the proper way to play it.
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Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
- Start date
Luck is a necessity when reaching high streaks, either your team is perfect and you lose to a misplay, or your team isn't and you lose to an unlikely sequence of events that could also have happened at battle 51. I have been lucky with this run (very few Bisharp/T-tars/Megawiles, which are major threats that generally require revenge killing), but I don't see how my team is any worse than this other ScarfTapu+Dragon+Aegi team :)
Salazzle-3 isn't a threat, AI loves to Nasty Plot turn 1 and Lele only has a 6% chance of being OHKOed by non-crit Sludge Bomb, if Lele is gone Megamence outspeeds and can't be OHKOed, even by a crit, if both Lele and Mence are gone and Aegi doesn't have any Atk boosts there are any number of mons that could beat me.
OHKO users are more than capable of haxing me to death, but haven't ended this streak yet, Walrein-4 is 2hkoed by Lele/Mence and Abomasnow-3 is 2/1hkoed, so the odds of them taking out more than one of my team members is pretty low. Donphan-4 hasn't found the ultra wormhole that leads to the battle tree yet, maybe in gen 8 :^)
Rotom-Frost hopefully gets neutered by Lele, otherwise it comes down to Aegi hoping for some luck (Rotoms are also one of the places max SpD Sword comes in handy), Drapion-4 gets 2HKOed by Lele/Mence so again not too bad unless I'm already down to unboosted Aegi (if Aegi managed to set up on the previous mon +6 Sacred OHKOs while Drapion needs Crit+Sniper).
Terrakion-2 doesn't OHKO Lele without a crit, and if it does Aegi can come out and either set up+smack replacement in 4 turns or just SD+Sacred Sword to be rid of the bull, Darmanitan-4 is annoying because it speed ties Lele, but can be revenged by Mence if it wins the coin toss (Dar-3 is also annoying because I don't know it's 3 until it survives the Psychic and it still OHKOs with Sheer Force).
Other than the already mentioned trio of bulky psychic+flying resists, threats tend to be random things that rely on luck (every time I see Lax Incense or a OHKO move I want to punch a gamefreak employee) and more complex "what if X then Y" enemy combos, few leads can stand up to a combination of Lele+MegaMence so most problems don't start until the second mon shows up. Also I find it funny that most of the threats you list for your most recent team are non-issues for mine, just goes to show that there's more than one way to do well in the tree
Playing the team well requires knowing when to switch and when to sac, and that generally requires a certain familiarity with AI habits (like Salazzle-3's tendency to NP), though the combination of 2 overpowered sweepers + a bulky anti-TR mon like Aegislash does allow it to function well for speeding through to the stamp/getting a hang of the tree so if people want to copy this team they should be able to do reasonably well. Idk why the Global Link matters when there's no QR for this team.
Also since you asked for a video here's one I probably should have lost with Walrein-4, a poor team matchup, a sprinkling of hax, and abusing the A"I" to let Aegislash revenge kill a cowardly fire type: VXRG-WWWW-WWW9-LDPC
You didn’t fall for the same trap that exposed the Azumarill guy, nor did you respond to disbelief with sputtering anger like the others. At this point posting tons of replays depicting non-one-sided battles as most players do can only increase your credibility.
And in Ray’s defense, stupid luck does play a part. I gave up trying to re-reach my own streak after multiple failed attempts that can’t even do half. My own ineptitude is a factor, but it’s just as much a testament to how falliable my team is to even small but precise mistakes. To me, my team clearly enjoyed too many free wins before getting served.
There is that 500 though, which is why i suggest sharing lots of replays for evaluating :)
And in Ray’s defense, stupid luck does play a part. I gave up trying to re-reach my own streak after multiple failed attempts that can’t even do half. My own ineptitude is a factor, but it’s just as much a testament to how falliable my team is to even small but precise mistakes. To me, my team clearly enjoyed too many free wins before getting served.
There is that 500 though, which is why i suggest sharing lots of replays for evaluating :)
While I believe that you consult a set list and are aware of common AI behaviors(which admittedly is better than half the players on low leaderboard), that is merely necessary but not sufficient to have a large streak. While you most likely did win 500 battles, you probably used PkHex to back up your save before a loss. There is one crucial difference between my "scarf tapu+dragon+aegi" team and yours: Status protection. Over the course of 500 battles, unless you have a lot of substitute/lum berry or a Ground on your team, something WILL get paralyzed often. And everything on your team is pretty much as good as dead once it gets paralyzed or frozen. (Yes, Aegislash also hates paralysis because it relies on a priority move to get it out of its frail Blade form, one "fully paralyzed" turn = fainted Aegislash) Had your Salamence been a Lum Dragonite, I would have been less suspicious. Your team is also the only team to get past 250 with no status protection whatsoever, and you suddenly double that.
You also have no way to prevent something from being Frozen (which no amount of SpD on Aegi will help with), and no crit protection. Your team is one that is especially vulnerable to hax, as you rely on defensive setup without having Substitute as a buffer against hax. Snorlax4 is a big offender here, as it has monstrous Special bulk that prevents it from being 4HKOed by Lele, Fissure to quickly take out Aegislash, and Body Slam paralysis to neuter Mence.
There is also a special attacker that outspeeds and 2HKOes Lele while avoiding an OHKO in return and can beat the rest off the team with ease: Alakazam3.
Lele misses out on Alakazam3 by two points of speed, gets 2hkoed by Shadow ball, OHKOes Mence in Psychic Terrain, and Aegislash cannot do jack to it in Psychic terrain while it gets 3HKOed with the possibility of SpD drops.
It is possible that you never encountered this menace in 500 battles, but I find it unlikely, seeing as it's relatively common.(12 trainers can use it, including the speed specialists with limited Pokemon pools)
Another thing: Can you tell me why you chose to use 3 attacks Salamence instead of Roost+2 attacks or mono-attacking? Those are clearly superior sets, so I wonder why you chose to go for a terrible alternative set.(no Roost greatly hampers Mence's setup opportunities, and Substitute increases the amount of times you'll get to +6, making up for the lack of EQ) Is there something that I or everyone else missed that makes DClaw Mence not a waste of a moveslot?
Lastly, your team is suspiciously similar to the PGL Sample QR team made by "Sun", (uses the same Pokemon but with a different lead, the same crappy moveset with Mence, nearly identical lele sets(the sample runs focus blast over hidden power), and a non-orthodox aegi). Anyone who's used that team knows how bad it is, with a lot of people not even being able to get the 50 stamp, let alone 500. I'm waiting for you to come out and tell us that the streak was made with backups and that we should be more suspicious of streaks like these.
You also have no way to prevent something from being Frozen (which no amount of SpD on Aegi will help with), and no crit protection. Your team is one that is especially vulnerable to hax, as you rely on defensive setup without having Substitute as a buffer against hax. Snorlax4 is a big offender here, as it has monstrous Special bulk that prevents it from being 4HKOed by Lele, Fissure to quickly take out Aegislash, and Body Slam paralysis to neuter Mence.
There is also a special attacker that outspeeds and 2HKOes Lele while avoiding an OHKO in return and can beat the rest off the team with ease: Alakazam3.
Lele misses out on Alakazam3 by two points of speed, gets 2hkoed by Shadow ball, OHKOes Mence in Psychic Terrain, and Aegislash cannot do jack to it in Psychic terrain while it gets 3HKOed with the possibility of SpD drops.
It is possible that you never encountered this menace in 500 battles, but I find it unlikely, seeing as it's relatively common.(12 trainers can use it, including the speed specialists with limited Pokemon pools)
Another thing: Can you tell me why you chose to use 3 attacks Salamence instead of Roost+2 attacks or mono-attacking? Those are clearly superior sets, so I wonder why you chose to go for a terrible alternative set.(no Roost greatly hampers Mence's setup opportunities, and Substitute increases the amount of times you'll get to +6, making up for the lack of EQ) Is there something that I or everyone else missed that makes DClaw Mence not a waste of a moveslot?
Lastly, your team is suspiciously similar to the PGL Sample QR team made by "Sun", (uses the same Pokemon but with a different lead, the same crappy moveset with Mence, nearly identical lele sets(the sample runs focus blast over hidden power), and a non-orthodox aegi). Anyone who's used that team knows how bad it is, with a lot of people not even being able to get the 50 stamp, let alone 500. I'm waiting for you to come out and tell us that the streak was made with backups and that we should be more suspicious of streaks like these.
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I am not gonna start throwing accusations at anyone. But I am gonna say that if I managed to get 500 wins with a team in ANY format and bothered to post the team I used, there's NO WAY I wouldn't have a single replay to go with it at the time of posting. I'd be too stoked about putting up with all the Tree's haxy nonsense to leave others wondering how my team operates and it would break my heart to go through all that toil just to have people calling me a fraud because I couldn't be bothered show any visible demonstration of the team. Seriously. 500 wins in the Battle Tree in ANY format is a MASSIVE ACHIEVEMENT with any team.The Tree is designed to be able to take down any squad with enough bad luck. I just can't grasp how someone can report on having an ongoing 500 win streak and be so nonchalant in reporting it. I would just never be able to contain my enthusiasm.
I don't save many replays to save time+SD space, generally nice round numbers in case a later loss can't be uploaded or weird battles like Aegi > Emboar. Finding+uploading a bunch of replays for an ongoing streak is more work than I care for, maybe once I lose I'll find a few fun vids for a "best of".
Most paraysis I see comes from Rotoms, and generally results in Lele still being faster and having a few turns to break through and KO. Aegi hates full para but can still attempt to SD to stay bulky and then hopefully get off (at least) one attack to weaken something for Mence to pick off.
If Snorlax-4 is still too healthy to be KOed by Megamence I can try to switch-stall it out of Fissure+EQ PP with Aegi+Mence, otherwise it needs first BS Para+multiple full paras to take out the Salad Menace.
Megazam can be handled by Kings Shield+SD for 3 (/4 if crit against Lele) turns, before Psychic Terrain ends and +2 Shadow Sneak OHKOs.
3 attack Salamence is because it's HO rather than set-up, EQ is necessary for Rocks/Steels like T-tar+Megawile, D-claw lets me outspeed+OHKO many of the Lati sets if Lele is gone, the least used move is Dragon Dance, which is primarily to set up once against things like Scarfchomp locked into EQ, outspeed+KO the replacement, and then outspeed+KO Chomp. Aegislash is the set-up star of the team, not big scary dragon.
Different lead = different team, you would never say "Durant+Mimikyu+Glalie is horrible, my Glalie lead got OHKOed and then Durant was dead weight", Lele needs to lead to punch holes, Sala needs to stay alive to partner with Aegi, and Aegi would make a horrible lead.
You also seem to underestimate the role dumb luck can play in getting a higher streak, ignoring the first 50 battles since they're generally pretty fast to replay even if you lose against them, if you had a team that could reach a streak of 150+ wins 50% of the time, you would have ~25% chance of making it to 250, ~12.5% to 350, and so on.
And lastly, if I were going to cheat I would either go for a boring team that is already proven to avoid dumb questions, or something fun like Durant+Quiver Dance Vivillon. Boring but custom teams that still take 20+ turns against bulky EQ users are in that weird spot where you wish battles didn't take so long but you're still worried the AI will hax you next turn.
Different people get excited by different things, it's a pretty boring team and not even top 5 yet, I'm happier about dragging Bruxish to the top of the board in Multis and getting Mega Manectric up in Doubles.
But...Singles with an optimal team is so AGONIZING. That Smeargle team I used would often need 25+ turns before I could sweep. If anything the fact that such long streaks are boring would be all the more reason for me to say as much as I can when I finally hit a decent landmark. If I screw up and lose at battle 499, I can't just go:
"Aw shucks. I lost just before 500. Time to try again!"
499 battles is a LOT of time and work. Your team may not be Top 5 yet (Well technically. SilverLining's team is kinda controversial tbh.) but it's still one of just 6 streaks to clear the 500 mark is not even 10 wins away from being top 5 period. It is absolutely nothing to sneeze at. That's a darn good number if you ask me. I guess we all don't excited by the same things but there tons of posters here who still struggle to get to the 200 mark, much less 500. Even if I was bored of my team, I would still want to say a bit more about just because 500 wins is a killer achievement in general. As HeadTails said people are going to be astounded by that number and might try emulating it. They would definitely want to know more about such an amazing streak.
Posting what you have been working on is awesome. As everyone is acknowledged for their hard and dedicated work. Everyone here tried to share their knowledge and wisdom as much as possible, so the rest of us we can all grow together and push the boundary.
Echoing all the posts before me, having 500+ ongoing streak is feat and nothing to be scold at. Actually it should be recognized and praised since no matter if it is leaderboard legible yet (I assumed when the streak ended) since having one team, no mid-switching, no PkHex save reloading, is just incredible.
I think the odds of doing that is 1/10000 or less, especially with a slightly different team with set that was once thought to be low tier.
I can't say for others, but I do look forward when you finally get to the end and share the knowledge to the rest of us.
Echoing all the posts before me, having 500+ ongoing streak is feat and nothing to be scold at. Actually it should be recognized and praised since no matter if it is leaderboard legible yet (I assumed when the streak ended) since having one team, no mid-switching, no PkHex save reloading, is just incredible.
I think the odds of doing that is 1/10000 or less, especially with a slightly different team with set that was once thought to be low tier.
I can't say for others, but I do look forward when you finally get to the end and share the knowledge to the rest of us.
Oh, it could make the comeback right now:
(Side note: I still haven't figured out how to use this thing for either Maison or Tree. Any ideas would be appreciated.)
This really pushes the bounds of credulity. There is literally not a Lati set that can be OHKOed by Dragon Claw but not Double Edge. On top of that Aegislash is in all likelihood the best Pokemon to switch in against an unknown Lati set, so it comes off as extremely bizarre that you could play hundreds of battles and feel that Latias-2 or whatever is a threat that must be tripled up on while status, critical hits and OHKO moves aren't that big of a deal. I wouldn't consider an Aegislash uninvested in Attack (+6 Shadow Sneak could fail to KO distinctly non-bulky opponents like Raikou) a set-up star either.
The issue would be that the team looks more like one that could reach 150+ maybe 5-10% of the time, and when you halve that enough the odds of getting 500+ go past the realm of what most would consider 'dumb luck.'
No idea on doubles, let alone a carbon copy of a Maison miscreant. I only ever used mine in triples where it's simply satisfactory on a balanced team and has enough damage output and physical bulk to not feel like a shitmon. However nothing stands out nowadays besides its excellent movepool. It's extremely basic and a good example of a pokemon made very early on that wasn't meant to be hyped or unique (unlike say Charizard.) Nowadays lots of pokemon need to have something that stands out, be it an ability, weird typing, or signature move. Donphan has none of those, and a very stereotypical BST.
Honestly, I wouldn't be drawn to Donphan but it holds a special place in my heart. Simple aesthetically pleasing design, evolves from a cutie patootie, beat the shit out of me in Stadium 2 (how I came to love gen I Exeggutor) and was dependable as all hell in PBR online singles, where a lot of the more popular pokes at the time couldn't OHKO it and were beaten soundly by EQ and some Ice Shard. Like Snorlax it's gotten harder for it to stand out over the years, but we go way back.
Also, it's the first pokemon I've hatched shiny that was immediately ready to go out of the egg (in under a dozen no less.) 0 speed and 31 everything else but SpA. Like the little guy was begging to be used.
Anyway, if you insist on keeping it like... that, maybe design your umpteenth "nightmare" team since Donphan4 was slightly notorious in the past for obvious reasons. It's been along for many painful rides. Whether you change it up or not, it functions well on just about any goodstuffs TR team with more longevity and benefits greatly from moves like HH or HP (that moveset is asking for trouble, though)
Hey guys, I've been working on making a solid doubles team that can break 100, hopefully even 200, and could use some advice.
My team revolves around abusing Tapu Lele's psychic terrain, I decided to stick Alakazam next to her for that purpose. (I chose not to use the Mega so as to keep a sash on him.)
My backups include Mega Gyarados, who doesn't benefit from the terrain much but is a good check to those annoying enemy psychics that otherwise might prove too powerful under the terrain's conditions.
My second backup is undoubtedly the weak link and doesn't work well under the terrain either.
It's Bewear - who has yet to be represented on the leaderboards.
You may wonder why I include him, but I was looking for something that could handle ghost attacks that Lele and Alakazam often encounter. Also, he handles Alakazam's bug and dark weakness, is generally
very tanky on the physical side, handles darks and those annoying steels that resist psychic , and hits fairly hard (especially with a fightinium z). He's also my only trick room viable pokemon.
So you can see how I really value defensive synergy on my teams. By all other accounts, Bewear is suboptimal... he's very slow, has miserable special def, and obviously the terrain
is a liability for him. Add the fire weakness and chandelure becomes a real threat to this team if Mega gyara is not around.
This team's frontline hits very, very hard and I often don't even need to bring in the backups. The biggest threats are very fast attackers, especially ones that can flinch with rock slide - Aero, I'm looking at you- and, most of all, paralysis.
Thunder wave spam destroys this team and was the reason for my loss on battle 74.
So I'm thinking of replacing Bewear with a solid ground type, but it needs to be decently slow so as to check trick room - that rules out Garchomp. It also needs good defensive synergy with the two front psychic types, so I can bring him in safely.
Thoughts?
If I take your idea and run with it, I'll make sure to give credit in the eventual write-up.
My team revolves around abusing Tapu Lele's psychic terrain, I decided to stick Alakazam next to her for that purpose. (I chose not to use the Mega so as to keep a sash on him.)
My backups include Mega Gyarados, who doesn't benefit from the terrain much but is a good check to those annoying enemy psychics that otherwise might prove too powerful under the terrain's conditions.
My second backup is undoubtedly the weak link and doesn't work well under the terrain either.
It's Bewear - who has yet to be represented on the leaderboards.
You may wonder why I include him, but I was looking for something that could handle ghost attacks that Lele and Alakazam often encounter. Also, he handles Alakazam's bug and dark weakness, is generally
very tanky on the physical side, handles darks and those annoying steels that resist psychic , and hits fairly hard (especially with a fightinium z). He's also my only trick room viable pokemon.
So you can see how I really value defensive synergy on my teams. By all other accounts, Bewear is suboptimal... he's very slow, has miserable special def, and obviously the terrain
is a liability for him. Add the fire weakness and chandelure becomes a real threat to this team if Mega gyara is not around.
This team's frontline hits very, very hard and I often don't even need to bring in the backups. The biggest threats are very fast attackers, especially ones that can flinch with rock slide - Aero, I'm looking at you- and, most of all, paralysis.
Thunder wave spam destroys this team and was the reason for my loss on battle 74.
So I'm thinking of replacing Bewear with a solid ground type, but it needs to be decently slow so as to check trick room - that rules out Garchomp. It also needs good defensive synergy with the two front psychic types, so I can bring him in safely.
Thoughts?
If I take your idea and run with it, I'll make sure to give credit in the eventual write-up.
Best defensive ground type that functions well under TR is Mudsdale or Gastrodon, depending on which one suits your team better, in this case Mudsdale. With an Assault Vest it's bulky as fuck, Stamina is a stupidly good ability on it, and its moveset is incredibly basic but effective.
By the way, Bewear is also stupidly bulky on both sides (but indeed psychic terrain does it no favors whatsoever.) I run 100/212/36/156 with an Assault Vest and it's just as hard to KO as Mudsdale, but mine is not only built around no speed but uses Hammer Arm to cut it further. Psychic and Fire types being problems depends entirely on the timing, because it easily murders most of them with or without Instruct. Without psychic terrain, it even takes 87% at most from Mega Alakazam's Psychic and 95% from ZardY's Heat Wave in sun (doubles only; spread penalty required.) Both of them are easily OHKOd if Bewear hits them first.
TR is entirely the reason Bewear is effective, though, so you're right to want to change him out.
By the way, Bewear is also stupidly bulky on both sides (but indeed psychic terrain does it no favors whatsoever.) I run 100/212/36/156 with an Assault Vest and it's just as hard to KO as Mudsdale, but mine is not only built around no speed but uses Hammer Arm to cut it further. Psychic and Fire types being problems depends entirely on the timing, because it easily murders most of them with or without Instruct. Without psychic terrain, it even takes 87% at most from Mega Alakazam's Psychic and 95% from ZardY's Heat Wave in sun (doubles only; spread penalty required.) Both of them are easily OHKOd if Bewear hits them first.
TR is entirely the reason Bewear is effective, though, so you're right to want to change him out.
Thanks, luckily I have a trained mudsdale ready to go, how convenient.
AV is an option, I really do like being able to use protect on all my mons though.
As for Bewear- Hammer arm in TR? Definitely effective. That 10% miss chance can be nasty though, which is why I eventually replaced it with superpower (plus more power).
Either way, the fighting z Crystal lets you get off one nuke without having to worry about drawbacks, which I couldn’t resist.
I hope you or someone succeeds in getting Bewear on the boards, because he absolutely is viable - just needs to fit the team.
AV is an option, I really do like being able to use protect on all my mons though.
As for Bewear- Hammer arm in TR? Definitely effective. That 10% miss chance can be nasty though, which is why I eventually replaced it with superpower (plus more power).
Either way, the fighting z Crystal lets you get off one nuke without having to worry about drawbacks, which I couldn’t resist.
I hope you or someone succeeds in getting Bewear on the boards, because he absolutely is viable - just needs to fit the team.
Not even the battle facility AI deserves to face that.
maybe rebreed for Sand Veil and partner with Tyranitar for maximum BS?
Latias 2/3 go from chance to guaranteed OHKOs, non-mega 4 gets a (small) chance to be OHKOed, and Mega Latios gets a higher chance to be OHKOed. I'll concede that Substitute might be a better option overall but being able to beat them 1 on 1 if I'm down to just Salamence is nice and Dragon Claw in general suits my playstyle better.
People seem to be underestimating the team despite the strong core of Aegislash+EQ staller, it's sure as hell not reaching 500 wins regularly but it's not as bad as you seem to think it is, and I've found most of the serious threats to be quite rare.
Also, DO. NOT. BADMOUTH. AEGISLASH! >:(
9SDW-WWWW-WWW9-LRS9
8XRG-WWWW-WWW9-LRSD
DHQW-WWWW-WWW9-LRSH
An abnormally high amount of set-up opportunities for Aegi in my last 10 battles, but all in a days work for the demon sword.
Attention: after much input and deliberate thought (read: I got scolded), I have moved the PGL QR Sample Teams from the Global Mission into the Q.R.T.O.O. Due to them being produced by Game Freak (or someone on the PGL dev team), and not by some individual Trainer, they have their own little section separate from the rest of the listing.
If by playstyle you mean that your team isn't hurt by wasting a moveslot as you can just load a previous save state when you lose, sure. Otherwise simple math/probability applies to all players, and being able to safeguard against hax is not a stylistic decision but a necessity to be able to win hundreds of battles consecutively. If you are getting into 1v1 situations against something like Latias commonly enough for it to factor into your teambuilding, I have zero faith that the team is capable of the streak you claim as there are plenty of sets that don't even need a typing/stats advantage to beat pretty much anything 1v1 if they get a tiny bit of "dumb luck."
It certainly isn't abnormal for Aegislash to be able to set up on a variety of leads. What is abnormal is that once set up, your Aegislash set is almost specifically engineered to not be able to sweep. Aegislash already has the natural bulk to get off a Swords Dance or two against anything that doesn't have super-effective STAB. Its issue is being slow and susceptible to hax, which your set exacerbates with the needless Sassy nature (Mega Mawile outspeeding Aegislash when it OHKOs the other two team members is particularly egregious) and the low Attack which requires more time setting up (+4 standard Aegislash picks up the same OHKOs as +6 uninvested Aegislash).
Wow. I actually managed to make it 50 wins Super Doubles! Exchanging Garchomp for Tapu Lele proved to be a huge boon. I no longer had to worry about Fake Out sniping Whimsicott and Psychium Z proved to be a lovely nuke for getting ride of things I just didn't want to deal with. Also Whimsicott not being a Level 1 piece of crap means that it has a chance to live hits and its Moonblast can actually do some damage. I am honestly surprised by how much damage it can do to mons weak to it thanks to the max Sp. Attack EVs. I am actually really glad I opted for it over Endeavor. I did realize 2 things on my humble stride for 50 win stamp though:
1. If I try continuing with this team, I should probably hunt down a Modest Tapu Lele first. Whimsicott is now guaranteed to get the Tailwind up so it's probably in my best interest get a Lele that can hit as hard as possible.
2. Shadow Ball is to Tapu Lele as Dragon Claw is to Mega Salamence. It seems like a great coverage option on paper. But in practice...it's kinda trash. With both STAB and Psychic Terrain, Psychic outdamages darn near everthing Shadow Ball can hit for super effective damage in the Tree. And even something resists it, Shattered Psyche will outdamage the super effective Shadow Ball. Dark types are immune but Lele is a Fairy type with Moonblast so that issue is pretty much moot. The only two foes that Shadow Ball is always the better option against is Bronzong and Metagross and both of these get bopped by Blastoise's Dark Pulse which actually as a pseudo STAB bonus coming off it.
This leads me to want to want to make 2 changes:
1. Get Modest Tapu Lele
2. Replace Shadow Ball with Taunt
When I found out Jellicent and Oranguru had freaking Mental Herbs, the frustration was real. But when I looked up the actual item, I realized that they're the only 2 Pokemon in the whole Tree get Mental Herb (3 counting Aroma Veil Aromatisse). And 2 of them get anniliated by Shattered Psyche. This means that if I run Taunt, I can pretty much always stop Trick Room from going up unless I get lead Oranguru or double Trick Room lead. I also have couple more questions:
1. Does the AI ever have both its Trick Room mons use the move in the same turn or is it smart enough not to do that?
2. Is lead Oranguru threatening enough that it's worth having Whimscott run something wacky like Encore or Switcheroo to do deal with?
3. Since Whimsicott now always gets up Tailwind, is Focus Sash even worth it on him anymore? Perhaps I could have him and Kartana exchange items? Kartana getting 1 free hit (hax nonwithstanding) could be dope and Whimsicott would hit harder when it got the chance. And if it gets OHKO'd I get 2 monsters with 3 turns of Tail Wind.
1. If I try continuing with this team, I should probably hunt down a Modest Tapu Lele first. Whimsicott is now guaranteed to get the Tailwind up so it's probably in my best interest get a Lele that can hit as hard as possible.
2. Shadow Ball is to Tapu Lele as Dragon Claw is to Mega Salamence. It seems like a great coverage option on paper. But in practice...it's kinda trash. With both STAB and Psychic Terrain, Psychic outdamages darn near everthing Shadow Ball can hit for super effective damage in the Tree. And even something resists it, Shattered Psyche will outdamage the super effective Shadow Ball. Dark types are immune but Lele is a Fairy type with Moonblast so that issue is pretty much moot. The only two foes that Shadow Ball is always the better option against is Bronzong and Metagross and both of these get bopped by Blastoise's Dark Pulse which actually as a pseudo STAB bonus coming off it.
This leads me to want to want to make 2 changes:
1. Get Modest Tapu Lele
2. Replace Shadow Ball with Taunt
When I found out Jellicent and Oranguru had freaking Mental Herbs, the frustration was real. But when I looked up the actual item, I realized that they're the only 2 Pokemon in the whole Tree get Mental Herb (3 counting Aroma Veil Aromatisse). And 2 of them get anniliated by Shattered Psyche. This means that if I run Taunt, I can pretty much always stop Trick Room from going up unless I get lead Oranguru or double Trick Room lead. I also have couple more questions:
1. Does the AI ever have both its Trick Room mons use the move in the same turn or is it smart enough not to do that?
2. Is lead Oranguru threatening enough that it's worth having Whimscott run something wacky like Encore or Switcheroo to do deal with?
3. Since Whimsicott now always gets up Tailwind, is Focus Sash even worth it on him anymore? Perhaps I could have him and Kartana exchange items? Kartana getting 1 free hit (hax nonwithstanding) could be dope and Whimsicott would hit harder when it got the chance. And if it gets OHKO'd I get 2 monsters with 3 turns of Tail Wind.
They still dual-layer Trick Room; that hasn’t changed at all. It’ll be easier to notice if they run two leads with poorer attacking options against both Lele and Whimsy.
Offensively I’ve never had a big problem with Oranguru, but if it continues to be a thorn in your balls, lead or not, you should make changes. Also correct me if I’m wrong, but Psychic Terrain would only block Encore because of Prankster. I know turskain and at least one other fellow dabbled with this team, so they’ll have played around this also.
And yeah, without lv1 Whimsy, go ahead and ditch the sash.
Oh whoopsie me. That's indeed true. Encore would have been something to consider if I was still running Garchomp but with Lele on board, status moves that hit the foe are pretty much off the table. A small price to pay though as Lele's nuking power and priority prevention easily trump the benefits of Garchomp's Ground typingand compared to Lele's Psychic moves, Dragon Claw is a joke. Not to mention Earthquake forces my teammates to Protect. I'll probably keep Whimsicott's set the same but give it a Life Orb and Kartana the Focus Sash. Kartana hits wonderfully hard but its special bulk is laughable and Fire attacks auto-kill it. Being able to get off 2 moves without needing to waste a turn protecting could offset the power drop and it can let Whimsicott make more of the time it's around until the opponent knocks it out to give me a free switch.
Interesting to hear that AI does indeed have both its mons use Trick Room. If I understand what you're saying correctly, they're more likely to go for a double Trick Room when their damage output falls short of a 2HKO on either of my mons? I guess that means if it came to it, it would be better to try and defeat the weaker one first since they're more likely to set the TR. I am putting Taunt on Lele now though so TR in general shouldn't be as scary.
PS: The more I think about it, the more crazy Iron Ball Tornadus actually sounds since I no longer care about my wind setter living past the first turn. It'll still get priority Tailwind as well as priority Rain Dance to help Blastoise if it lives. And its Hurricane would be killer and it could help me against Sun, Sand, and Hail teams. I could also consider Fling to ensure TR setters die alongside Lele's power. Theorymonning it, Rain Dance and Tailwind would be the trademark moves it'd either use Protect, Hurricane, Acrobatics, or Fling. I do like it more than Inner Focus Suicune. While flinches are no longer a problem, Suicune not getting priority on it means it can haxed, Taunted, and/or boned by Electric/Grass types depending on the item I use. Plus it's hella easier to get a Prankster Tornadus from ORAS or the upcoming USUM than going playing through Virtual Console GS and making sure the experience points line up for the right nature. I might just try it once my Whimsicott streak is done.
It doesn’t even have to be lower than a 2HKO, as they’ll still be in the zone of being unable to be taken for granted. I’ve also had users like Bronzong use TR back to back because rain was already up, no one was vulnerable to Hypnosis, and Gyro Ball had terrible output.
Most enemy setters off the top of my head will have an “ideal” attack versus Lele or especially Whimsicott, so I would expect dual TR to be incredibly rare, at least versus your leads; it’s easier to see dual TRs with Garchomp instead of Lele and lead pairs like Oranguru/Musharna4. Just be on your toes.
I do like the idea of Iron Ball Tornadus, however I would revisit your attacking options on Lele to ensure that it’ll be able to finish anything hit by Fling, as the Slowthings will not take much from it, especially Mega Slowbro. While you’re using an Iron Ball for very different reasons, I’ve found Power Items are pretty effective with some of the Incarnate forms, especially Landorus. They handle themselves all right under TR. (in other words i wholly approve your unorthodox hurrnadus)
Most enemy setters off the top of my head will have an “ideal” attack versus Lele or especially Whimsicott, so I would expect dual TR to be incredibly rare, at least versus your leads; it’s easier to see dual TRs with Garchomp instead of Lele and lead pairs like Oranguru/Musharna4. Just be on your toes.
I do like the idea of Iron Ball Tornadus, however I would revisit your attacking options on Lele to ensure that it’ll be able to finish anything hit by Fling, as the Slowthings will not take much from it, especially Mega Slowbro. While you’re using an Iron Ball for very different reasons, I’ve found Power Items are pretty effective with some of the Incarnate forms, especially Landorus. They handle themselves all right under TR. (in other words i wholly approve your unorthodox hurrnadus)
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Yes, feel free to discuss here. No need for a new thread in my mind.
Long time, no see huh. People who pay close attention to the discord, already know most of what I will talk about, but even for them there is a small surprise at the end of this report. However, let’s not talk too quickly and start at the beginning. Right after posting my 463 streak I decided to do what I said and decided to play through Moon and start the streak again so I would avoid stupid Sina (and to a lesser extent Plumeria). So I started and played to around the 150 mark before losing to TR. I think I misplayed a bit that battle and a bit frustrated I decided to try again. However, I again lost around 100, again to TR. At this point I began to doubt the viability of this team. It felt like the previous streak was a bit of a fluke. Because of this, I decided to try a few different teams, but nothing got higher than 150, which wasn’t good enough for my standards anymore. Now that I almost got to 500. I really wanted to also hit the 500. At one point around May, I was in the train and had my 3DS with me and wanted to play a bit of Tree. I decided to throw together a few mons from my boxes and it worked out pretty nicely and immediately felt good, so I decided to play some more. However, I didn’t really have much time at my hands, so the streak progressed slowly. Even during the holidays the streak didn’t get much attention from me. However, at the end of the holidays, I was around the 400 mark and I knew that the team had the possibility to get to my desired 500. At some point I decided to really push myself to play more than normal and get to the 500 as fast as possible, which I eventually did. Once hitting the 500 I decided to push myself and go as far as possible. At around the 800 mark, I even began to believe that reaching 1000 was possible. Unfortunately, my run was cut short by Rock Slide flinch, a Stealth Rock using Gigalith 4 and some suboptimal play by me.
Reporting a streak of 821 in Super Doubles.
Alright, I must admit. The team wasn’t as thrown together as I initially said. I didn’t just grab a few Pokemon from my box and ran with them. The team was actually based on a Multi’s Team my IRL friend MrMarc and I run that is at the moment at over 300 wins. That team used Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Salamence with in the back Aegislash (behind Kangaskhan) and Specs Tapu Fini (behind Salamence). This team works exceptionally well. Tapu Fini very good synergy with Mega Salamence, being able to switch into Dragon and Ice moves aimed at Salamence, and also providing Misty Terrain to protect itself and its team mates from status, which Mega Kangaskhan and aegislash also really like. However, in doubles you cannot run double mega so I either had to replace Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Salamence. I had already tried a few teams with Mega Kangaskhan and Tapu Fini, but it was pretty hard to build a solid team that was also fast enough. Therefore, I decided to try out Mega Salamence. Mega Salamence doesn’t benefit from Misty Terrain, and is even hindered as it cannot run dragon type moves for its coverage, but Tapu Fini can still be very good for the rest of the team because protection from status is just amazing in the Tree. This meant I had to switch up the Kangaskhan and Aegislash part of the team. In the Multi team, Kangaskhan had Power-Up-Punch to boost alongside Mega Salamence when Salamence knocked out foes with Hyper Voice. For this reason, I was looking for a different physical attacker that could also boost its attack. When looking through my boxes that day, my I fell on Kartana and I knew that this would be a perfect fit. With the help of Hyper Voice from Salamence, it can pick up easy OHKOs and start boosting its attack. It also greatly appreciates the protection from Misty Terrain. I now had 3/4 of the team ready and had to find the final member. When looking at the multi team again, I felt like Kartana had partly taken the role of Kangaskhan (boosting attacker) and partly that from Aegislash (Steel Type). However, Aegislash was also a very good tank, being able to switch in and take a ton of attacks. Kangaskhans Normal type was also very good, as it gave very strong neutral attacking power against a lot of threatening types (mostly electric and Fire types). So I was looking to combine their other parts of their role and found one in my box, Snorlax! With his gluttony ability and a super Berry he had an enormous amount of bulk and had the power to win against a lot of Pokemon. He also gave me a very strong answer to Trick Room, which would otherwise be a threat. So with this, the team was complete and I could start playing.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Flamethrower
- Protect
This is the same Salamence that I used in my 478 streak and it still functions perfectly. Most of the time He is spamming Hyper Voice, chipping Pokemon to bring them into KO range for Kartana. Double edge was used when I really needed to KO something that Hyper Voice can’t, because even without Attack Investment, it still hits very hard. Flamethrower is for steel types and is simply the best coverage move. Thinking about it now, Tailwind could maybe replace this as this would allow Tapu fini to come in and with the speed advantage can win against an even greater amount of Pokemon.
Kartana @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Protect
A super standard Focus Sash Kartana is probably the best fit for the Tree. Kartana is one of those Pokemon that hasn’t seen much use in the Tree, but it is pretty darn strong and with Beast Boost can become even stronger, allowing it to snowball the opposing team. Kartana can also reduce the amount of hax from the Tree, by having Sacred sword and Smart strike. They both provide an insurance against Double Team/Minimize users. Smart Strike also doesn’t care about Lax Incense/BrightPowder and Sacred Sword doesn’t care about defensive boosters (such as Registeel 1).
Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 164 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Dazzling Gleam
- Ice Beam
Probably the star of the team. When starting this streak around May, Tapu Fini was hardly used in the Battle Tree, as most people choose Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele as their Tapu of choice, as they hit extremely hard with their STAB move boosted by the Terrain. However, even though Misty Terrain doesn’t provide Tapu Fini with extra damage, it can be argued to be the best Terrain in the Tree. Not having to worry about random freezes and Thunder Wave/Confusion spammers make this Terrain a godsend for anyone trying to get far in the Tree. The terrain allows Tapu Fini to freely switch in on the Ice Beams targeted at Salamence (or Blizzards), which would otherwise be an very big problem when leading with Salamence. The reduction in dragon type attacks is not very big, but is still very much appreciated by Snorlax, especially when switching in against Specs Latios locked in Draco Meteor.
I decided to run Specs Fini to compensate for its lacklustre attacking power. With the Choice Specs Tapu Fini hits pretty hard and KOs everything it needs to KO (such as Mega Latios). The moves of Specs Tapu Fini are all very standard I think. Moonblast and Scald are the highest damaging Single target STAB moves. Dazzling Gleam is used as spread moves are always strong in Doubles. The last move chosen was a toss-up between Ice Beam and Grass Knot. In the end, I decided on Ice Beam to have a last resort answer for Zapdos and Thundurus, as Fini can survive most electric from them and KO the frailer versions with Ice Beam. Grass knot also seemed less usefull when already using Kartana.
The EVspread was pretty simple. Tapu Fini isn’t that powerfull with only a base 95 SpA, so I decided that Maximum investment was required. Next I decided to look at the speed tiers. With 84 Speed EVs, it has 116 speed, which outspeeds the pretty crowded and dangerous 115 speedtier which includes Electivire 3/4, Leafeon 3 and drapion 4 among a few other less threatening Pokemon. Everything else was invested in HP with the last few invested in the defences to gain an extra stat point.
Snorlax @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Return
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Protect
This is probably the weirdest Pokemon on the team. Snorlax was here to take random hits and especially for Dragon + Electric leads, such as Latios + Thundurus. These Pokemon are very hard to deal with for Salamence and Kartana, and Tapu Fini also doesn’t like Electric types obviously. Snorlax can stay in on these kind of Pokemon and 2HKO them. On the other hand, Snorlax is obviously weak to Fighting Types, which Salamence and Tapu Fini easily take care of, so the defensive synergy really goes both ways.
The moveset is not really anything fancy. Return is just the best STAB move, 2HKOing a lot of Pokemon. Crunch and Earthquake provide coverage for things Return doesn’t hit (Steels, Rocks, Ghost). Protect is simply a standard move in doubles. I would have loved to run Recycle and/or Curse on this, but he simply doesn’t have space for those moves.
The EVspread of this Snorlax was very random. I simply took a Snorlax from box and gave it the easiest to make EVspread that seemed at least a bit optimal. Snorlax doesn’t have the highest of Attack stats, so I knew I wanted to maximize it’s attack. After that I knew that Snorlax already has a very high HP stat and SpD stat, so for that reason I wanted to focus on its defense stat. Giving it full Defense investment was probably a bit suboptimal, so I went with the random 100 HP and 156 Defense Spread. This is definitely not optimal, but it was good enough.
After this streak I wasn’t done with the Tree just yet. It only amplified my motivation to play in the Tree. Before the team I just explained I had also tried to play with Mega Swampert. I even had a very long discussion with MrMarc about this team as he also really like Mega Swampert. We wanted to lead with Pelipper and Mega Swampert and were looking for 2 strong back-ups. The most problematic pokemon we identified for this lead were weather changers (such as Abomasnow), Trick Room, bulky Dragons, Grass and Waters and most importantly Swift Swimmers, especially Kingdra and Ludicolo. We were also looking for something else that would be immune to Earthquake, to give Swampert a second mon It could Earthquake next to.
We knew we wanted a Steel type to deal with Trick Room, and the bulky Dragons and Grass part. This would thus be either Aegislash or Scizor, both having their pros and cons. Scizor has priority and can deal with the Grass types better, but is also much frailer. Aegislash has much more bulk, but has no priority except for Shadow Sneak, which is pretty hard to use in Doubles for obvious reasons. Also, Aegislash really wants the Z-Move, whereas Scizor can also simply run a Life Orb. We also briefly considered Metagross, but its coverage was simply lacking/overlapping to much with Mega Swampert to really seem worthwhile.
From there on, we wanted a Pokemon that was very good at disposing opposing Water Pokemon and preferably immune to Earthquake. The most obvious Pokemon that could do this would be Zapdos/Thundurus-T. Running an Electric type would even allow us to use Thunder and Thundurus-T would give us a switch in to Electric Types for Pelipper. However, when we annalyzed it a bit more, Swift Swim Pokemon seemed like too much of a threat for this kind of team, so we decided to look a bit further and in the end we decided to use Ludicolo. It doesn’t have the Electric immunity, nor is immune to Earthquake, but it does give us a second Swift Swim Pokemon. We decided to use Grassium Z, as it could heavily dent Kingdra and Ludicolo with it, bringing them in Bullet Punch KO range for Scizor. Yeah, as soon as we decided on Ludicolo with Grassium Z, we knew we wanted Scizor as it doesn’t need the Z-move. With this, the team was ready and we started to play. However, I soon lost at around 150. Mr. Marc got a bit further, almost hitting 300, but he also mentioned how the team was weak to Trick Room. After some time, we decided to shelf the idea.
However, after losing my streak with my previous team, I decided to give Mega Swampert another look. Instead of leading with it, I decided to try it in the back. I also noticed how we completely forgot about another steel type, Celesteela, which amazed me. It has everything a the team could which for. A lot of bulk, an Ground immunity and its weaknesses are very nicely covered by Mega Swampert. For leads, I decided on Pelipper and Tapu Koko. However, I soon realized that again, the team was weak to the Swift Swimmers Ludicolo and Kingdra. As a result, I came back to Ludicolo as the answer for them. This also gave me Fake Out upfront, which is much better than Fake Out in the back. I guess I have rambled enough now and will jump into the team!
Reporting a streak of 598 in Super Doubles.
Pelipper @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Surf
- Rain Dance
- Protect
The first Pokemon to consider when building a Rain team is a rain Setter. When you also want to use Mega Swampert, there really is only one Pokemon to use, and that is Pelipper. This Pokemon got heavily improved this generation with Drizzle and a boost in its Special Attack. The first move Pelipper should be given is Hurricane as it gives it a 110 STAB move that never misses in the rain. I also knew that I wanted to use it with a Focus Sash and Protect as Pelipper is pretty frail and has a few very common weaknesses. The last 2 moves are probably the more interesting choices and this team, but I will explain them. On the version with Mega Swampert as a lead, I simply ran Scald instead of Surf. However, now that I run Ludicolo, Surf became a very interesting option to boost Ludicolo’s Special Attack, just like the good old times in the Subway. Even after boosting Ludicolo’s Special Attack, having another strong spread move on the team is very helpful in a lot of situations. Lastly, we have the move Rain Dance. I think this is the only move Pelipper can run in this slot, but it has hardly been done, with the other Rain teams on the leaderbord opting for Tailwind. However, Tailwind really isn’t needed when running 2 Swift Swimmers already, so I decided to use Rain Dance to counteract opposing weather without having to switch out and back in. Pelipper is also Timid so when the rain is cancelled out, it can outspeed Ludicolo/Swampert and set up Rain Dance again before they attack. Outspeeding Ludicolo also gives me the option to Surf and afterwards attack with Ludicolo when another weather is active or, more commonly, when Cloud Nine is active. This is often very usefull, for instance for KOing Drampa 4.
Ludicolo @ Absorb Bulb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball
Good old Ludicolo with the Absorb Bulb bringing back memories of R Inanimates Subway team. However, Compared to his Ludicolo I did change half of its moveset, running Scald and Energy ball instead of Surf and Grass knot. Scald gives Ludicolo a strong water move that doesn’t hit my partner (which would break the Focus Sash of Pelipper), has a change to burn and also lets him unthaw from freezes. Scald also does more damage to a single target than Surf. Energy ball is ran instead of Grass Knot for more consistent damage. Most importantly, it does more damage against Rotom-Wash, which would otherwise be quite annoying. Next to these 2 moves, we have Fake Out and Ice Beam. Ice Beam is just general coverage, which is especially useful against Dragons, Flying and Grass types. Fake Out is probably the most important move on the moveset, as gives Pelipper a much easier time to use Surf and activate Ludicolo’s Absorb Bulb, making it extremely threatening. Whenever possible, I try to activate the Absorb Bulb as without it, Ludicolo’s attacks are pretty weak.
Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Protect
This thing is a monster under the Rain. Both Waterfall and Earthquake hit incredibly hard and Ice punch was the coverage move of choice to get the best coverage possible. I could have used Super Power in that slot, which would deal with Lickilicky (Cloud nine is annoying) and Ferrothorn, but I have never really needed it. With Ice Punch, Swampert also has a way to hit Lati@s, which would otherwise wall it’s STAB moves. The only Pokemon that resists all of Swampert’s moves is Rotom-Wash, which is dealt with by Ludicolo. Swampert’s EVspread is pretty simple, as giving it max Speed would make it Speed Tie with Ludicolo, so I decided to run one Speedpoint lower. This also allows it to Earthquake with Ludicolo on the field, after Ludicolo has attacked, so even if I have to KO Ludicolo in a certain situation, I am sure that Ludicolo can get its attack of. The biggest drawback of this EVspread is that Swampert is now one point slower than Swift Swim Ludicolo 4, but Swampert cannot do a lot damage to it anyway.
Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Brave Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Seed Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
Celesteela is the obligatory Steel Type for this Rain team, and it might be a bit of a strange moveset. At first, I was running a Special set with Heavy Slam as it’s only Physical move. However, I noticed I was almost exclusively using Heavy Slam so I decided to run a more physical set, with Flamethrower as it’s only special move. Flamethrower was absolutely necessary, as this team would otherwise lose hard to Ferrothorn 4. Obviously, Flamethrower is not that strong in the Rain, but when Celesteela came out, Rain was very often almost expired. Also, Ferrothorn simply cannot get past this Celesteela, so Celesteela was always able to Stall out the Rain and KO Ferrothorn. Or so I thought. In practise, I hardly ever saw Ferrothorn, and when I did, it was only Cursing, allowing Ludicolo and Pelipper to KO it.
I really wanted to run Celesteela with the Assault Vest as this would allow it to take a lot of attacks, most importantly Special Water moves boosted in the Rain, and it even allowed it to take Thunders from Zapdos or Specs Latios. Because I wanted to run Assault Vest, I needed 2 filler moves. I decided to use Seed Bomb to gain extra coverage against Water types, as Celesteela wasn’t able to hit them very hard. Lastly, I decided to run Earthquake to give Celesteela access to a spread move that could also hit Electric types harder.
Alright. This post is already very long, but I am unfortunately (or very maybe fortunately) not done yet. After losing with my Rain team, I decided to try something completely different. Not a different team in Doubles, but I decided to try Singles! I have always found singles to be pretty boring because you have to play very safe to win consistently, but I just wanted to try it. I also felt that there was not much creativity in Singles when it came to teams on the leaderbord as it was either a Salamence/Aegi team or a Garchomp, Tapu Fini, Scizor team (and obviously Durant). So I looked at the teams from this generation and last generation for some inspiration and found just that. Almost inmediatly I decided I wanted to use Chansey because sweeping with Minimze Chansey seemed fun, and it also beats almost half of the Pokemon in the Tree (basically everything special based). From there I knew I wanted to use something that would beat every physical attacker, especially fighting types. For this role, I decided to use Gliscor. It should beat all fighting types easily, and also destroy win against a lot of other dangerous physical Pokemon. With Substitute and Protect and can even win against most Special Attackers slower than it. Lastly, I thought that Gliscor, even though it is already very strong defensively, could use Intimidate support to make it almost invincible to physical attackers. Salamence is the prime physical attacker in the Tree, but it doesn’t really synergize very well with Gliscor, so I decided on another Intimidating Mega Pokemon, Mega Gyarados. What I didn’t realize when putting these 3 together was that (Mega) Gyarados also beats the last few threats for Chansey + Gliscor, namely physical Ice and Water Pokemon. So with this, the team was build and I was ready to hop back into the Battle Tree and the team completely surpassed my expectations.
Posting an ongoing streak of 531 in Super Singles.
Gyarados @Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Substitute
Very simple but effective. Dragon Dance to set-up against many opponents. Substitute to protect it from Status and Critical Hits when setting up. It also allows me to scout against certain Pokemon. Double Stab simply gives Mega Gyarados the best possible coverage. The EVspread is also very simple, but neccesarry. Maybe I could take away a little bit of its speed, but maximum attack necessary, even if it’s just for one Pokemon: Contrary Serperior 4, which is probably the biggest threat to my team. At +1, Gyarados has a 37.5% chance to OHKO (if this doesn’t work, Chansey has to tank a +4 Specs Leaf Storm and KO back with Seismic Toss, leaving it severely damaged). Gyarados Intimidate is crucial for Gliscor to be able to switch in on certain Pokemon, such as Charizard-X, Archeops 3, among other things.
Gliscor Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 212 HP / 4 Atk / 220 Def / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic
- Earthquake
Last generation, Gliscor was almost always ran specially defensive. However, with Chansey on his side in this team, that didn’t really make much sense to me, so I decided to go for a physically Defensive approach. This allows it to tank the strongest of physical Moves without any problems. I gave it enough Speed to outspeed Tyrantrum 4, so he can switch in on the first Head Smash and stall the remaining ones out with Sub-protect. There is too much to say about Gliscor, but I will leave a few damage calculations to simply show its amazing physical bulk.
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 150-176 (84.7 - 99.4%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 127-151 (71.7 - 85.3%)
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 84-100 (47.4 - 56.4%)
252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor on a critical hit: 114-136 (64.4 - 76.8%)
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 84-100 (47.4 - 56.4%)
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 57-67 (32.2 - 37.8%)
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 84-100 (47.4 - 56.4%)
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Minimize
- Substitute
Chansey, the Pokemon that inspired this team. It isn’t as fun to sweep with Minimize Chansey as I imagined, but it’s still pretty fun sometimes. Huge shout outs to NoCheese for inspiring the use of Timid Chansey. It allows Chansey to outspeed a ton of Pokemon it should not have any business outspeeding. A lot of these slow Pokemon also have Status moves and with Subsitute, Chansey can avoid getting Statused instead of having to switch out to get rid of the status. Everything else is very standard about this Chansey and it wins against almost all Special Attackers and even a lot of physical Attackers, even though I mostly use Gliscor for those.
Conclusion
I kinda regret postponing the posts about the Doubles teams. I really should make a post after I have finished a streak, but the truth is that while playing and thinking of new ideas, I am not in the mood of writing about the old team. I will try to work on this and start writing after I have finished a streak, instead of amassing multiple streaks, which results in one giant post like this one. Speaking of new streaks, I cannot wait to play more Tree in USUM. I have already thought of some new ideas with the new UBs and Move Tutors. However, after completing USUM, the first thing I want to do is complete my singles streak. Not sure when this will happen though. See you guys next time!
Reporting a streak of 821 in Super Doubles.
Alright, I must admit. The team wasn’t as thrown together as I initially said. I didn’t just grab a few Pokemon from my box and ran with them. The team was actually based on a Multi’s Team my IRL friend MrMarc and I run that is at the moment at over 300 wins. That team used Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Salamence with in the back Aegislash (behind Kangaskhan) and Specs Tapu Fini (behind Salamence). This team works exceptionally well. Tapu Fini very good synergy with Mega Salamence, being able to switch into Dragon and Ice moves aimed at Salamence, and also providing Misty Terrain to protect itself and its team mates from status, which Mega Kangaskhan and aegislash also really like. However, in doubles you cannot run double mega so I either had to replace Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Salamence. I had already tried a few teams with Mega Kangaskhan and Tapu Fini, but it was pretty hard to build a solid team that was also fast enough. Therefore, I decided to try out Mega Salamence. Mega Salamence doesn’t benefit from Misty Terrain, and is even hindered as it cannot run dragon type moves for its coverage, but Tapu Fini can still be very good for the rest of the team because protection from status is just amazing in the Tree. This meant I had to switch up the Kangaskhan and Aegislash part of the team. In the Multi team, Kangaskhan had Power-Up-Punch to boost alongside Mega Salamence when Salamence knocked out foes with Hyper Voice. For this reason, I was looking for a different physical attacker that could also boost its attack. When looking through my boxes that day, my I fell on Kartana and I knew that this would be a perfect fit. With the help of Hyper Voice from Salamence, it can pick up easy OHKOs and start boosting its attack. It also greatly appreciates the protection from Misty Terrain. I now had 3/4 of the team ready and had to find the final member. When looking at the multi team again, I felt like Kartana had partly taken the role of Kangaskhan (boosting attacker) and partly that from Aegislash (Steel Type). However, Aegislash was also a very good tank, being able to switch in and take a ton of attacks. Kangaskhans Normal type was also very good, as it gave very strong neutral attacking power against a lot of threatening types (mostly electric and Fire types). So I was looking to combine their other parts of their role and found one in my box, Snorlax! With his gluttony ability and a super Berry he had an enormous amount of bulk and had the power to win against a lot of Pokemon. He also gave me a very strong answer to Trick Room, which would otherwise be a threat. So with this, the team was complete and I could start playing.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Flamethrower
- Protect
This is the same Salamence that I used in my 478 streak and it still functions perfectly. Most of the time He is spamming Hyper Voice, chipping Pokemon to bring them into KO range for Kartana. Double edge was used when I really needed to KO something that Hyper Voice can’t, because even without Attack Investment, it still hits very hard. Flamethrower is for steel types and is simply the best coverage move. Thinking about it now, Tailwind could maybe replace this as this would allow Tapu fini to come in and with the speed advantage can win against an even greater amount of Pokemon.
Kartana @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Protect
A super standard Focus Sash Kartana is probably the best fit for the Tree. Kartana is one of those Pokemon that hasn’t seen much use in the Tree, but it is pretty darn strong and with Beast Boost can become even stronger, allowing it to snowball the opposing team. Kartana can also reduce the amount of hax from the Tree, by having Sacred sword and Smart strike. They both provide an insurance against Double Team/Minimize users. Smart Strike also doesn’t care about Lax Incense/BrightPowder and Sacred Sword doesn’t care about defensive boosters (such as Registeel 1).
Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 164 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Dazzling Gleam
- Ice Beam
Probably the star of the team. When starting this streak around May, Tapu Fini was hardly used in the Battle Tree, as most people choose Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele as their Tapu of choice, as they hit extremely hard with their STAB move boosted by the Terrain. However, even though Misty Terrain doesn’t provide Tapu Fini with extra damage, it can be argued to be the best Terrain in the Tree. Not having to worry about random freezes and Thunder Wave/Confusion spammers make this Terrain a godsend for anyone trying to get far in the Tree. The terrain allows Tapu Fini to freely switch in on the Ice Beams targeted at Salamence (or Blizzards), which would otherwise be an very big problem when leading with Salamence. The reduction in dragon type attacks is not very big, but is still very much appreciated by Snorlax, especially when switching in against Specs Latios locked in Draco Meteor.
I decided to run Specs Fini to compensate for its lacklustre attacking power. With the Choice Specs Tapu Fini hits pretty hard and KOs everything it needs to KO (such as Mega Latios). The moves of Specs Tapu Fini are all very standard I think. Moonblast and Scald are the highest damaging Single target STAB moves. Dazzling Gleam is used as spread moves are always strong in Doubles. The last move chosen was a toss-up between Ice Beam and Grass Knot. In the end, I decided on Ice Beam to have a last resort answer for Zapdos and Thundurus, as Fini can survive most electric from them and KO the frailer versions with Ice Beam. Grass knot also seemed less usefull when already using Kartana.
The EVspread was pretty simple. Tapu Fini isn’t that powerfull with only a base 95 SpA, so I decided that Maximum investment was required. Next I decided to look at the speed tiers. With 84 Speed EVs, it has 116 speed, which outspeeds the pretty crowded and dangerous 115 speedtier which includes Electivire 3/4, Leafeon 3 and drapion 4 among a few other less threatening Pokemon. Everything else was invested in HP with the last few invested in the defences to gain an extra stat point.
Snorlax @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Return
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Protect
This is probably the weirdest Pokemon on the team. Snorlax was here to take random hits and especially for Dragon + Electric leads, such as Latios + Thundurus. These Pokemon are very hard to deal with for Salamence and Kartana, and Tapu Fini also doesn’t like Electric types obviously. Snorlax can stay in on these kind of Pokemon and 2HKO them. On the other hand, Snorlax is obviously weak to Fighting Types, which Salamence and Tapu Fini easily take care of, so the defensive synergy really goes both ways.
The moveset is not really anything fancy. Return is just the best STAB move, 2HKOing a lot of Pokemon. Crunch and Earthquake provide coverage for things Return doesn’t hit (Steels, Rocks, Ghost). Protect is simply a standard move in doubles. I would have loved to run Recycle and/or Curse on this, but he simply doesn’t have space for those moves.
The EVspread of this Snorlax was very random. I simply took a Snorlax from box and gave it the easiest to make EVspread that seemed at least a bit optimal. Snorlax doesn’t have the highest of Attack stats, so I knew I wanted to maximize it’s attack. After that I knew that Snorlax already has a very high HP stat and SpD stat, so for that reason I wanted to focus on its defense stat. Giving it full Defense investment was probably a bit suboptimal, so I went with the random 100 HP and 156 Defense Spread. This is definitely not optimal, but it was good enough.
This team has 2 modes, which are used about as much. The first mode is simply firing of Hyper Voices with Salamence and letting Kartana pick on of Pokemon. From there, Kartana can Beast Boost his way to victory. The other mode is switching Salamence out for Tapu Fini on turn one, which mostly happens when there is a Pokemon that cannot be KOd by Kartana and Salamence and can hit Salamence with an Ice or Dragon Move. Another reason of switching is Salamence to Kartana is when there is a bulky Pokemon such as Cresselia or Regigigas on the field that often use status moves. There are also a lot of specific reasons for switching Salamence to Tapu Fini that are very lead dependent, but the 2 mentioned are by far the 2 most common occasions. Snorlax hardly ever switches in on turn 1 as Tapu Fini is already such a good switch-in for Salamence that it is hardly ever needed. I do switch him in quite a bit though after the Misty Terrain has been set.
As you can see, I almost exclusively switch out Salamence for Tapu Fini and hardly ever switch in Kartana for Tapu Fini. The reason for this is the Kartanas only real worry are Fire types moves. Kartana can bait these moves for Salamence to hit them hard. Next turn I can simply Attack with Kartana and attack again with Salamence, which results in at least one KOd Pokemon, which means Kartana is at worst hanging on to his Focus Sash. This simply improvise his baiting power, giving Salamence another free turn.
As you can see, I almost exclusively switch out Salamence for Tapu Fini and hardly ever switch in Kartana for Tapu Fini. The reason for this is the Kartanas only real worry are Fire types moves. Kartana can bait these moves for Salamence to hit them hard. Next turn I can simply Attack with Kartana and attack again with Salamence, which results in at least one KOd Pokemon, which means Kartana is at worst hanging on to his Focus Sash. This simply improvise his baiting power, giving Salamence another free turn.
Electric Types: Electric Types are just no fun. Salamence has a hard time damaging them, Kartana is outsped by a lot of them (Jolteon, Electrode, Raikou) and Tapu Fini is obviously weak to them. I do often try to bring in Tapu Fini and Snorlax in as soon as possible. Tapu Fini is switched in to ensure that no paralyses happen, Snorlax is brought in as the only Pokemon that can safely damage them.
Zapdos and Thundurus: I know these are also Electric types, but they deserve a special mention as even Kartana cannot hit them very hard (they resist all of Kartana’s moves). I handle them the same, by first switching in Tapu Fini and then Snorlax, but they amplify the need for Snorlax. When playing with this team I really though Zapdos 2 would be my doom, but I luckily hardly ever faced it and when I did, it didn’t dodge every single attack.
Fast Rock Slide: This team is not very fast, with Salamence hitting 120 Base speed being the fastest. Salamence is also weak to Rock, which means Rock Sliders often also prefer to use this move. This can result in very scary situations in which I simply have to hope to not get flinched and have to quickly KO the them. Mega Sceptile and Greninja 3 are the main offenders, being Rock Sliders that also outspeed my entire team, but another important one is Archeops. Salamence outspeeds it, but it can hardly do anything in return, and was part of the reason I lost.
Zapdos and Thundurus: I know these are also Electric types, but they deserve a special mention as even Kartana cannot hit them very hard (they resist all of Kartana’s moves). I handle them the same, by first switching in Tapu Fini and then Snorlax, but they amplify the need for Snorlax. When playing with this team I really though Zapdos 2 would be my doom, but I luckily hardly ever faced it and when I did, it didn’t dodge every single attack.
Fast Rock Slide: This team is not very fast, with Salamence hitting 120 Base speed being the fastest. Salamence is also weak to Rock, which means Rock Sliders often also prefer to use this move. This can result in very scary situations in which I simply have to hope to not get flinched and have to quickly KO the them. Mega Sceptile and Greninja 3 are the main offenders, being Rock Sliders that also outspeed my entire team, but another important one is Archeops. Salamence outspeeds it, but it can hardly do anything in return, and was part of the reason I lost.
Batttle 822: EQ6G-WWWW-WWWG-7GK3 (Archeops, Milotic, Gigalith, Pinsir)
No other videos unfortunately because the battles I saved were on version 1.1
No other videos unfortunately because the battles I saved were on version 1.1
After this streak I wasn’t done with the Tree just yet. It only amplified my motivation to play in the Tree. Before the team I just explained I had also tried to play with Mega Swampert. I even had a very long discussion with MrMarc about this team as he also really like Mega Swampert. We wanted to lead with Pelipper and Mega Swampert and were looking for 2 strong back-ups. The most problematic pokemon we identified for this lead were weather changers (such as Abomasnow), Trick Room, bulky Dragons, Grass and Waters and most importantly Swift Swimmers, especially Kingdra and Ludicolo. We were also looking for something else that would be immune to Earthquake, to give Swampert a second mon It could Earthquake next to.
We knew we wanted a Steel type to deal with Trick Room, and the bulky Dragons and Grass part. This would thus be either Aegislash or Scizor, both having their pros and cons. Scizor has priority and can deal with the Grass types better, but is also much frailer. Aegislash has much more bulk, but has no priority except for Shadow Sneak, which is pretty hard to use in Doubles for obvious reasons. Also, Aegislash really wants the Z-Move, whereas Scizor can also simply run a Life Orb. We also briefly considered Metagross, but its coverage was simply lacking/overlapping to much with Mega Swampert to really seem worthwhile.
From there on, we wanted a Pokemon that was very good at disposing opposing Water Pokemon and preferably immune to Earthquake. The most obvious Pokemon that could do this would be Zapdos/Thundurus-T. Running an Electric type would even allow us to use Thunder and Thundurus-T would give us a switch in to Electric Types for Pelipper. However, when we annalyzed it a bit more, Swift Swim Pokemon seemed like too much of a threat for this kind of team, so we decided to look a bit further and in the end we decided to use Ludicolo. It doesn’t have the Electric immunity, nor is immune to Earthquake, but it does give us a second Swift Swim Pokemon. We decided to use Grassium Z, as it could heavily dent Kingdra and Ludicolo with it, bringing them in Bullet Punch KO range for Scizor. Yeah, as soon as we decided on Ludicolo with Grassium Z, we knew we wanted Scizor as it doesn’t need the Z-move. With this, the team was ready and we started to play. However, I soon lost at around 150. Mr. Marc got a bit further, almost hitting 300, but he also mentioned how the team was weak to Trick Room. After some time, we decided to shelf the idea.
However, after losing my streak with my previous team, I decided to give Mega Swampert another look. Instead of leading with it, I decided to try it in the back. I also noticed how we completely forgot about another steel type, Celesteela, which amazed me. It has everything a the team could which for. A lot of bulk, an Ground immunity and its weaknesses are very nicely covered by Mega Swampert. For leads, I decided on Pelipper and Tapu Koko. However, I soon realized that again, the team was weak to the Swift Swimmers Ludicolo and Kingdra. As a result, I came back to Ludicolo as the answer for them. This also gave me Fake Out upfront, which is much better than Fake Out in the back. I guess I have rambled enough now and will jump into the team!
Reporting a streak of 598 in Super Doubles.
Pelipper @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Surf
- Rain Dance
- Protect
The first Pokemon to consider when building a Rain team is a rain Setter. When you also want to use Mega Swampert, there really is only one Pokemon to use, and that is Pelipper. This Pokemon got heavily improved this generation with Drizzle and a boost in its Special Attack. The first move Pelipper should be given is Hurricane as it gives it a 110 STAB move that never misses in the rain. I also knew that I wanted to use it with a Focus Sash and Protect as Pelipper is pretty frail and has a few very common weaknesses. The last 2 moves are probably the more interesting choices and this team, but I will explain them. On the version with Mega Swampert as a lead, I simply ran Scald instead of Surf. However, now that I run Ludicolo, Surf became a very interesting option to boost Ludicolo’s Special Attack, just like the good old times in the Subway. Even after boosting Ludicolo’s Special Attack, having another strong spread move on the team is very helpful in a lot of situations. Lastly, we have the move Rain Dance. I think this is the only move Pelipper can run in this slot, but it has hardly been done, with the other Rain teams on the leaderbord opting for Tailwind. However, Tailwind really isn’t needed when running 2 Swift Swimmers already, so I decided to use Rain Dance to counteract opposing weather without having to switch out and back in. Pelipper is also Timid so when the rain is cancelled out, it can outspeed Ludicolo/Swampert and set up Rain Dance again before they attack. Outspeeding Ludicolo also gives me the option to Surf and afterwards attack with Ludicolo when another weather is active or, more commonly, when Cloud Nine is active. This is often very usefull, for instance for KOing Drampa 4.
Ludicolo @ Absorb Bulb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball
Good old Ludicolo with the Absorb Bulb bringing back memories of R Inanimates Subway team. However, Compared to his Ludicolo I did change half of its moveset, running Scald and Energy ball instead of Surf and Grass knot. Scald gives Ludicolo a strong water move that doesn’t hit my partner (which would break the Focus Sash of Pelipper), has a change to burn and also lets him unthaw from freezes. Scald also does more damage to a single target than Surf. Energy ball is ran instead of Grass Knot for more consistent damage. Most importantly, it does more damage against Rotom-Wash, which would otherwise be quite annoying. Next to these 2 moves, we have Fake Out and Ice Beam. Ice Beam is just general coverage, which is especially useful against Dragons, Flying and Grass types. Fake Out is probably the most important move on the moveset, as gives Pelipper a much easier time to use Surf and activate Ludicolo’s Absorb Bulb, making it extremely threatening. Whenever possible, I try to activate the Absorb Bulb as without it, Ludicolo’s attacks are pretty weak.
Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Protect
This thing is a monster under the Rain. Both Waterfall and Earthquake hit incredibly hard and Ice punch was the coverage move of choice to get the best coverage possible. I could have used Super Power in that slot, which would deal with Lickilicky (Cloud nine is annoying) and Ferrothorn, but I have never really needed it. With Ice Punch, Swampert also has a way to hit Lati@s, which would otherwise wall it’s STAB moves. The only Pokemon that resists all of Swampert’s moves is Rotom-Wash, which is dealt with by Ludicolo. Swampert’s EVspread is pretty simple, as giving it max Speed would make it Speed Tie with Ludicolo, so I decided to run one Speedpoint lower. This also allows it to Earthquake with Ludicolo on the field, after Ludicolo has attacked, so even if I have to KO Ludicolo in a certain situation, I am sure that Ludicolo can get its attack of. The biggest drawback of this EVspread is that Swampert is now one point slower than Swift Swim Ludicolo 4, but Swampert cannot do a lot damage to it anyway.
Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Brave Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Seed Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
Celesteela is the obligatory Steel Type for this Rain team, and it might be a bit of a strange moveset. At first, I was running a Special set with Heavy Slam as it’s only Physical move. However, I noticed I was almost exclusively using Heavy Slam so I decided to run a more physical set, with Flamethrower as it’s only special move. Flamethrower was absolutely necessary, as this team would otherwise lose hard to Ferrothorn 4. Obviously, Flamethrower is not that strong in the Rain, but when Celesteela came out, Rain was very often almost expired. Also, Ferrothorn simply cannot get past this Celesteela, so Celesteela was always able to Stall out the Rain and KO Ferrothorn. Or so I thought. In practise, I hardly ever saw Ferrothorn, and when I did, it was only Cursing, allowing Ludicolo and Pelipper to KO it.
I really wanted to run Celesteela with the Assault Vest as this would allow it to take a lot of attacks, most importantly Special Water moves boosted in the Rain, and it even allowed it to take Thunders from Zapdos or Specs Latios. Because I wanted to run Assault Vest, I needed 2 filler moves. I decided to use Seed Bomb to gain extra coverage against Water types, as Celesteela wasn’t able to hit them very hard. Lastly, I decided to run Earthquake to give Celesteela access to a spread move that could also hit Electric types harder.
It’s a Rain team, how hard can it be. Simply try to Surf your Ludicolo whenever possible and Fake Out the biggest threat. From there, you try to sweep. Obviously, this doesn’t work all the time. You have to take a few more things into consideration before clicking these moves, but most of the time, this works. Take a note of Pokemon you cannot Fake Out such as Crobat (Inner Focus) and Gengar, who can also KO Ludicolo. Luckily, Celesteela can very easily switch in against them and defeat them. When Switching Ludicolo out, try to not use Surf as this will do pretty hefty damage against Celesteela or Swampert.
Swift Swimmers: I have talked a lot about this, but opposing Swift Swimmers, which basically means Ludicolo and Kingdra, are super dangerous as they take advantage of the Rain with fast, Rain Boosted attacks and they also have the coverage to hit Ludicolo for big damage. Ludicolo is a bit more manageable, because of Hurricane on Pelliper. Kingdra is probably by far the biggest threat, especially Kingdra 4. It has both Protect, which makes doubling up on it a dangerous thing to do, and a super strong Z-Move, which allows it do deal a ton of damage to my team. Luckily, them having Swift Swim is only a 1/3 chance, but even without it, they can still be dangerous as seen in my loss.
Hail: Hail and Blizzard are dangerous for almost all kind of teams that do not have Tapu Fini. Abomasnow is especially annoying as it can Mega Evolve, forcing Pelipper to Rain Dance even when having Sound Proof, and it can also use protect. Its Blizzards also hit the team pretty hard. Alola-Ninetales is luckily much less of a threat as Pelipper underspeeds it, allowing Rain to go up. However, it can still be pretty dangerous in the back, cancelling out my rain and threatening my team with Freeze-Dry, which hits 3/4 of the team for 4 times super effective damage (oops). I hardly ever faced this, but it can be pretty dangerous in the right situation. Aurorus and manual Hail Setters are most of the time not much of a threat.
Sun: This mostly translates to Charizard. After playing a few Charizards I have found a pretty safe way to beat them. Charizard can be either Charizard X or Y and you never know which one you face. When Charizard leads, I will use Fake Out with Ludicolo on the Charizard, and switch out Pelipper to Swampert. If it’s X I can KO it with Earthquake the following turn. If it’s Y I simply switch either Swampert or Ludicolo out for Pelipper, getting the Rain back up and most likely letting it charge a Solar Beam. This allows me easily dispatch it the following turn. Other Sun setters can be a bit annoying, but by playing smartly with Pelipper, I should come out on top.
Sand: Hardly a threat, as almost all Sandstorm setters are either weak to water, very passive, or both. Tyranitar 3/4 is the most annoying one, but whenever Swampert comes in, it should simply win.
Cloud Nine: This is very annoying as it means I have to KO the Pokemon with Cloud Nine. The most annoying ones are Lickilicky (can have either a Quick Claw or Normalium Z with Explosion) and Drampa (Again, Quick Claw or Z-move). Both can be a real pain to KO, especially Lickilicky as I do not have any fighting moves on my team. Altaria is the last Cloud Nine Pokemon, but it is not much of a threat.
Trick Room: With Ludicolo and Pelipper, Trick Room hardly ever goes up if I don’t want to. Even if Trick Room is set up, Celesteela and even Swampert do not really mind Trick Room. Pelipper can also serve quite well as a bait and Ludicolo can stall a turn of Trick Room with Fake Out.
Hail: Hail and Blizzard are dangerous for almost all kind of teams that do not have Tapu Fini. Abomasnow is especially annoying as it can Mega Evolve, forcing Pelipper to Rain Dance even when having Sound Proof, and it can also use protect. Its Blizzards also hit the team pretty hard. Alola-Ninetales is luckily much less of a threat as Pelipper underspeeds it, allowing Rain to go up. However, it can still be pretty dangerous in the back, cancelling out my rain and threatening my team with Freeze-Dry, which hits 3/4 of the team for 4 times super effective damage (oops). I hardly ever faced this, but it can be pretty dangerous in the right situation. Aurorus and manual Hail Setters are most of the time not much of a threat.
Sun: This mostly translates to Charizard. After playing a few Charizards I have found a pretty safe way to beat them. Charizard can be either Charizard X or Y and you never know which one you face. When Charizard leads, I will use Fake Out with Ludicolo on the Charizard, and switch out Pelipper to Swampert. If it’s X I can KO it with Earthquake the following turn. If it’s Y I simply switch either Swampert or Ludicolo out for Pelipper, getting the Rain back up and most likely letting it charge a Solar Beam. This allows me easily dispatch it the following turn. Other Sun setters can be a bit annoying, but by playing smartly with Pelipper, I should come out on top.
Sand: Hardly a threat, as almost all Sandstorm setters are either weak to water, very passive, or both. Tyranitar 3/4 is the most annoying one, but whenever Swampert comes in, it should simply win.
Cloud Nine: This is very annoying as it means I have to KO the Pokemon with Cloud Nine. The most annoying ones are Lickilicky (can have either a Quick Claw or Normalium Z with Explosion) and Drampa (Again, Quick Claw or Z-move). Both can be a real pain to KO, especially Lickilicky as I do not have any fighting moves on my team. Altaria is the last Cloud Nine Pokemon, but it is not much of a threat.
Trick Room: With Ludicolo and Pelipper, Trick Room hardly ever goes up if I don’t want to. Even if Trick Room is set up, Celesteela and even Swampert do not really mind Trick Room. Pelipper can also serve quite well as a bait and Ludicolo can stall a turn of Trick Room with Fake Out.
Battle 300 (Sina): VAYW-WWWW-WWWG-7H5E (Drampa, Glaceon, Oranguru, Abomasnow)
Battle 500 (Sina): 4DJW-WWWW-WWWG-7H5X (Abomasnow, Glaceon, Drampa, Mandibuzz)
Battle 546: GLXG-WWWW-WWWG-7GUL (Latias, Zapdos, Uxie, Azelf)
Battle 598: JMBW-WWWW-WWWG-7GKZ (Armaldo, Kingdra, Carracosta, Ludicolo)
Battle 500 (Sina): 4DJW-WWWW-WWWG-7H5X (Abomasnow, Glaceon, Drampa, Mandibuzz)
Battle 546: GLXG-WWWW-WWWG-7GUL (Latias, Zapdos, Uxie, Azelf)
Battle 598: JMBW-WWWW-WWWG-7GKZ (Armaldo, Kingdra, Carracosta, Ludicolo)
Alright. This post is already very long, but I am unfortunately (or very maybe fortunately) not done yet. After losing with my Rain team, I decided to try something completely different. Not a different team in Doubles, but I decided to try Singles! I have always found singles to be pretty boring because you have to play very safe to win consistently, but I just wanted to try it. I also felt that there was not much creativity in Singles when it came to teams on the leaderbord as it was either a Salamence/Aegi team or a Garchomp, Tapu Fini, Scizor team (and obviously Durant). So I looked at the teams from this generation and last generation for some inspiration and found just that. Almost inmediatly I decided I wanted to use Chansey because sweeping with Minimze Chansey seemed fun, and it also beats almost half of the Pokemon in the Tree (basically everything special based). From there I knew I wanted to use something that would beat every physical attacker, especially fighting types. For this role, I decided to use Gliscor. It should beat all fighting types easily, and also destroy win against a lot of other dangerous physical Pokemon. With Substitute and Protect and can even win against most Special Attackers slower than it. Lastly, I thought that Gliscor, even though it is already very strong defensively, could use Intimidate support to make it almost invincible to physical attackers. Salamence is the prime physical attacker in the Tree, but it doesn’t really synergize very well with Gliscor, so I decided on another Intimidating Mega Pokemon, Mega Gyarados. What I didn’t realize when putting these 3 together was that (Mega) Gyarados also beats the last few threats for Chansey + Gliscor, namely physical Ice and Water Pokemon. So with this, the team was build and I was ready to hop back into the Battle Tree and the team completely surpassed my expectations.
Posting an ongoing streak of 531 in Super Singles.
Gyarados @Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Substitute
Very simple but effective. Dragon Dance to set-up against many opponents. Substitute to protect it from Status and Critical Hits when setting up. It also allows me to scout against certain Pokemon. Double Stab simply gives Mega Gyarados the best possible coverage. The EVspread is also very simple, but neccesarry. Maybe I could take away a little bit of its speed, but maximum attack necessary, even if it’s just for one Pokemon: Contrary Serperior 4, which is probably the biggest threat to my team. At +1, Gyarados has a 37.5% chance to OHKO (if this doesn’t work, Chansey has to tank a +4 Specs Leaf Storm and KO back with Seismic Toss, leaving it severely damaged). Gyarados Intimidate is crucial for Gliscor to be able to switch in on certain Pokemon, such as Charizard-X, Archeops 3, among other things.
Gliscor Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 212 HP / 4 Atk / 220 Def / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic
- Earthquake
Last generation, Gliscor was almost always ran specially defensive. However, with Chansey on his side in this team, that didn’t really make much sense to me, so I decided to go for a physically Defensive approach. This allows it to tank the strongest of physical Moves without any problems. I gave it enough Speed to outspeed Tyrantrum 4, so he can switch in on the first Head Smash and stall the remaining ones out with Sub-protect. There is too much to say about Gliscor, but I will leave a few damage calculations to simply show its amazing physical bulk.
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 150-176 (84.7 - 99.4%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 127-151 (71.7 - 85.3%)
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 84-100 (47.4 - 56.4%)
252+ Atk Sniper Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor on a critical hit: 114-136 (64.4 - 76.8%)
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 84-100 (47.4 - 56.4%)
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 57-67 (32.2 - 37.8%)
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 212 HP / 220+ Def Gliscor: 84-100 (47.4 - 56.4%)
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Minimize
- Substitute
Chansey, the Pokemon that inspired this team. It isn’t as fun to sweep with Minimize Chansey as I imagined, but it’s still pretty fun sometimes. Huge shout outs to NoCheese for inspiring the use of Timid Chansey. It allows Chansey to outspeed a ton of Pokemon it should not have any business outspeeding. A lot of these slow Pokemon also have Status moves and with Subsitute, Chansey can avoid getting Statused instead of having to switch out to get rid of the status. Everything else is very standard about this Chansey and it wins against almost all Special Attackers and even a lot of physical Attackers, even though I mostly use Gliscor for those.
This team is pretty easy play I think. It abuses the AI less than AegiMence, as the type synergy between the Pokemon is not that good. Most of the time the question is, which Pokemon can I set up against the Pokemon in front of me. The order of preference for me is first I try to set-up Gyarados. Gyarados with at least 4 Dragon Dances and a Substitute already wins against a lot of foes, but this is not always possible. Even getting to +2 with with a Substitute is often enough to win the game. If setting up Gyarados is not possible, I will set-up either Gliscor or Chansey, depending on the opponent. Whenever I cannot Set-up one of my Pokemon, I will always try to KO the Pokemon with either Gliscor or Chansey, so I always have the options of switching Gyarados in for its Intimidate.
Contrary Serperior 4: This is probably one of the biggest threats of this team as a lead. Chansey can’t simply switch in on it as at + 6 it has a pretty decent chance to OHKO it. The procedure if I face this (I haven’t yet) is setting up a Dragon Dance against it and hit it with a +1 Crunch from Mega Gyarados. Mega Gyarados has a 37.5% chance to OHKO it with a +1 Crunch. If this doesn’t pick up the KO, Chansey has to come in, tank the +4 Leaf Storm and KO it with Seismic toss. This leaves me with a full health Gliscor and a severely weakened Chansey, which is certainly not ideal, but there is not much else I can do I think.
Gyarados 4 (Mega): Mega Gyarados is funnily enough a very big threat for this team. The procedure is going to Gliscor and trying to hit it with a Toxic. After hitting it with a Toxic, Switching back and forth between Gliscor and Gyarados will KO it. The problems of this strategy are pretty obvious, Toxic has a 10% to miss and Waterfall also has a 20% chance to flinch. I faced Mega Gyarados 3 times and one time I missed the Toxic, but it luckily Dragon Danced again. Gliscor then survived the +1 Waterfall and hit its Toxic and I still won, but it’s just a matter of time that it will flinch Gliscor and I lose.
Boosters (Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, etc.) Boosters are hard to deal with as they can simply go to +6 and sweep me. Luckily, they often don’t go to +6. Also, every booster slower than Gliscor can simply be outstalled by Gliscor. Next to this, a ton of boosters simply lose against Gyarados or cannot deal enough damage to be a real threat to Chansey. Some can win with a little bit of hax, but for every booster there is a strategy possible that neutralizes them.
Taunt: With only 4 attacking moves, Taunt is very annoying. Luckily, Taunters put a very high priority on Taunt, which means I can simply attack a Taunter.
Gyarados 4 (Mega): Mega Gyarados is funnily enough a very big threat for this team. The procedure is going to Gliscor and trying to hit it with a Toxic. After hitting it with a Toxic, Switching back and forth between Gliscor and Gyarados will KO it. The problems of this strategy are pretty obvious, Toxic has a 10% to miss and Waterfall also has a 20% chance to flinch. I faced Mega Gyarados 3 times and one time I missed the Toxic, but it luckily Dragon Danced again. Gliscor then survived the +1 Waterfall and hit its Toxic and I still won, but it’s just a matter of time that it will flinch Gliscor and I lose.
Boosters (Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, etc.) Boosters are hard to deal with as they can simply go to +6 and sweep me. Luckily, they often don’t go to +6. Also, every booster slower than Gliscor can simply be outstalled by Gliscor. Next to this, a ton of boosters simply lose against Gyarados or cannot deal enough damage to be a real threat to Chansey. Some can win with a little bit of hax, but for every booster there is a strategy possible that neutralizes them.
Taunt: With only 4 attacking moves, Taunt is very annoying. Luckily, Taunters put a very high priority on Taunt, which means I can simply attack a Taunter.
Battle 271: N8SW-WWWW-WWWG-7HN5 (Gyarados, Staraptor, Salamence)
Battle 447: 8T2G-WWWW-WWWG-7GM4 (Archeops, Haxorus, Rampardos)
Battle 620: 4FSW-WWWW-WWWG-7GMT (Talonflame, Kangaskhan, Salazzle)
Battle 693: 3H9W-WWWW-WWWG-7GLF (Probopass, Garchomp, Gigalith)
Battle 447: 8T2G-WWWW-WWWG-7GM4 (Archeops, Haxorus, Rampardos)
Battle 620: 4FSW-WWWW-WWWG-7GMT (Talonflame, Kangaskhan, Salazzle)
Battle 693: 3H9W-WWWW-WWWG-7GLF (Probopass, Garchomp, Gigalith)
Conclusion
I kinda regret postponing the posts about the Doubles teams. I really should make a post after I have finished a streak, but the truth is that while playing and thinking of new ideas, I am not in the mood of writing about the old team. I will try to work on this and start writing after I have finished a streak, instead of amassing multiple streaks, which results in one giant post like this one. Speaking of new streaks, I cannot wait to play more Tree in USUM. I have already thought of some new ideas with the new UBs and Move Tutors. However, after completing USUM, the first thing I want to do is complete my singles streak. Not sure when this will happen though. See you guys next time!
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