Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[Worldie]

I think Mega Audino would be overally pretty great due to good bulk (toghether with M-Slowbro) and typing change on mega evo which negates its weakness and makes it unlikely to be targetted by poison/steel attacks turn 1, but the lack of Lum Berry really hurts since having the complete immunity to confusion / paralysis / freeze / sleep turn one is stupidly good to reduce RNG :(

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

I'd say it's evened out well by having some status protection for allies, as well as phenomenal team support by way of Helping Hand and Heal Pulse. Her overall bulk and typing is better than Oranguru and Slowbro (I generally wouldn't use Mega Bro as a setter.) And yeah, the type change helps as well.

While the lack of flinch guarding and other such RNGBS is missed, the same backups for Oranguru work just as well for Audino. Some use the Lum for Oranguru but I've generally considered Taunt blocking more important. Aromatisse is another one blatantly designed for TR, and I can't believe I forgot to mention it. Musharna has some issues, but I used to draw it all the time and it's generally very reliable.

I dislike the idea of running two setters in doubles, but leading setters on opposite sides in triples has been extremely effective. Maaan I hope we get triples back in spite of the 3DS limitations... it's just not the same anymore.

 

[Worldie]

We really wont this gen, simply because they aren't even in the code.

It's not impossible to have them in gen 8, though, with Switch hardware.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Somebody already data mined a leaked copy or demo of USUM and found no mention of triples in the coding whatsoever?



DHR EDIT: Like, I know this is sarcasm but I had a minor heart attack over this. If anyone knows anything about stuff like that, please let me know ASAP

Repto Again: heh, that was actually a legitimate question, since he sounded like he knew it for a fact. But I don't think anyone has data mined anything.

 

[Josh C.]

NoCheese - thanks for updating the front page! Just one thing though, you've accidentally put down Silvally instead of Type: Null for my Singles team.

NoCheese Edit: Whoops! Fixing.

 

[Shura Prinny]

Thanks for the help Worldie and Josh C., going for a Bold Tapu Fini. Hopefully my Moon version decides to be more cooperative than my Alpha Sapphire. No luck whatsoever with Thundurus.

 

[Porpoise]

Hi guys, I've been trying to hit a 50 win streak in Battle Tree singles, but with a few teams my peak has only been 48. My most recent, and most successful, team is below. Any suggestions on how to improve it? I'm thinking about changing Hydreigon's item but I'm not sure what to, and also switching Fire Blast to Flamethrower.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-Turn

Gyarados @ Normalium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Waterfall
- Splash
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Mega Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body/Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[GG Unit]

Hi guys, I've been trying to hit a 50 win streak in Battle Tree singles, but with a few teams my peak has only been 48. My most recent, and most successful, team is below. Any suggestions on how to improve it? I'm thinking about changing Hydreigon's item but I'm not sure what to, and also switching Fire Blast to Flamethrower.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf Draconium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast Flamethrower
- U-Turn

Gyarados @ Normalium Z Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Waterfall
- Splash Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang Substitute

Mega Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body/Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch

Thanks in advance for the help!

Should be good enough for 50 without having to massively overhaul everything, assuming your Gyarados is actually Adamant/Jolly and you just copied Timid from Hydreigon's set.

 

[Porpoise]

It is Jolly, I thought I had changed that but I guess I forgot. Fixing it now.

 

[Worldie]

Simply put, you got an excessive amount of non 100% accuracy moves.

You are extremely prone to RNG.

Replace all non accurate moves with accurate equivalents when applicable and it'll be much simpler.

 

[NZtechfreak]

I would think that given Gyarados speed tier it'd be better served with Dragon Dance and Waterium-Z than Z-Splash?

 

[Porpoise]

That's probably true, but I wanted to give Z Splash a try and Gyara seemed like the best option for it.

 

[Worldie]

There's definitely better options than Z-splash. You are committing a Z move that could be used to simply 1shot something on a simple +3 attack, which is nearly no different than just using sword dance, + giving up a moveslot for it.

All in all, no, you have better options for that as well.

 

[Skuntank3800]

Good! I made 56 win streak with this team which dates from the month of August. I lose the 57 battle by Articuno with Glacite, here is the team that I used.

Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability:Rough Skin
Nature:Jolly
4HP/252Atk/252Spe
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability:Blaze -> Drought
Nature:Timid
252SpA/4SpD/252Spe
- Flammethrower
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability:Psychic Surge
Nature:Timid
4Def/252SpA/252Spe
- Moon Blast
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Shadow Ball

Battle Video

50th Battle VS Red epic sweep of Garchomp Sash i use Rock Tomb for avoid it place an Dragon Dance for outspeed and i use Sword Dance for hold with Foucs Sash by Ice Beam Lapras and sweep with Outrage. N8AG-WWWW-WWW9-X637

 

[cayZ5]

Alright so I am trying to make a version of Josh. C's team using Mega-gross and tapu koko. I understand this team is probably inferior but I wanted to take a well built team and give it my own spin. So far it looks something like

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability:clear body -> tough claws
Nature: Jolly
4HP/252Atk/252Spe
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Thunderpunch
- Protect

Tapu Koko @ air balloon or life orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Nature: Timid
4HP/252SpA/252Spe
-Thunderbolt
-dazzling Gleam
-Uturn
-Protect

I think the combination of Tbolt and Thunderpunch will get rid of the water type trick room setters. Not having a reliable way to kill psychics is something I will need to fix with the leads. I can"t figure out what I should use for an intimidator; Gyarados, salamence, or Lando-T. Lando gets a stronger earthquake but none of them have a reliable flying stab to use. Ground types are a huge threat for these leads here so Gyarados is probably best. a set like

Gyarados @ ???
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 108HP/252Atk/148 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Protect

This lets me get the drop on the uninvested 111 speed tier, namely thundurus1. Of course, opposing electric types are dangerous since this team doesn't have a way to deal with them, and it would be a bad idea to push this entirely on team member 4. Landorus might be able to fill that role more effectively. I really can't decide. What do people think about this?

 

[Josh C.]

cayZ5 - hey, always cool to see people putting their own twist on things! Might I suggest looking at turskain’s Hitmonlee/Koko team better inspiration instead though? That team of mine was the first I thought of shortly after I gained access to the Tree, so it’s probably a little stale and outdated now.

At least having a Fake Out user to support Koko I think is very important to its success, and being a Fighting type to smack Steels, bulky Sandstormers in Tyranitar, Gigalith etc. is another plus; but if you want to branch out from Hitmonlee you could try something like Hitmontop (not as powerful or fast but bulkier with Intimidate, Helping Hand, Wide Guard), or...Hitmonchan? I’d definitely stay away from Air Balloon Koko, that’d actually strip it of the 50% boost to its electric attacks and immunity to sleep-inducing moves due to no longer being grounded! Specs is a great option, Volt Switch is commonly seen as a secondary STAB move to get out of bad matchups.

Candidates for Ground answers that ideally aren’t also weak to Electric are very bare with Metagross occupying the Mega slot, limited to basically, Rotom-Mow/Wash, Gastrodon, Quagsire, regular Swampert lol; you could maybe try one of the Rotoms as the most offensive option and slap a Z-crystal to make up for Hydro Pump’s or Leaf Storm’s accuracy for a turn.

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[cayZ5]

Josh C. and Coeur7 I guess I should clarify that I want to use Metagross firstly because I have the shiny one from the ORAS event, with jolly nature. The Tapu could be swapped for the others. I also totally forgot about the grounded part of electric terrain, thanks for the reminder. I guess my mistake was looking for Metagross teams and branching out from there, then not looking for koko teams once I settled on that. Turskain's team is a better mirror for yours, with unburden sort of replacing speed boost. Serperior might actually be a good idea, but the pace of doubles makes it hard to use/get the +2 boost though, coming from someone who played gen6 battle spot with serperior quite a bit. I also considered using the unburden terrain seed strat to set up tailwind, but 3 turns isn't enough. oh well, I can use sash kartana instead. I do like that one as well.

As for beast boost, I actually used guzzlord(drampa is better) in trick room doubles to some minor success with oranguru, as you get the +1 with instruct. although that team most recently lost to lead Tyrantrum4 when I used fake out on its teammate instead.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Silly idea:(Sceptile-M is a horrible partner for Koko anyway, due to obvious reasons)

Assuming your "obvious reason" is Lightningrod eating both Volt Switch and Thunderbolt, and I'm not overlooking something else, eh, it's not *that* cut-and-dry.

I've actually dicked around with M-Sceptile and Koko, and Discharge in Electric Terrain does lack a bit of oomph, but it's still particularly strong and it gives Sceptile constant boosts as long as you keep it up. Sceptile has much better attacking moves and hits incredibly hard with its own Thunderbolts. I wasn't having a rough time killing the numerous ground types or walls that obstruct Koko, due to grass/dragon STAB on top of the boosts every turn.

There were a lot of fun things to try as backup, particularly Sheer Force Thunderpunch Conkeldurr.

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[cayZ5]

I'd imagine that the direst problem with using Serperior in the Tree is the 90% accuracy on Leaf Storm (a lot of posts in this thread seem to be variations of "don't use Fire Blast" lately, hah; Wide Lens could be quite a fun item); the computer doesn't play all that well so +2 should be possible more often than in Battle Spot Doubles. If not for the inaccuracy, I'd be tempted to try it alongside Mat Block Greninja; of course, that's kind of beside the point since you want to try a Koko lead.

Edit: ReptoAbysmal -- Turning Koko into the supporter rather than main gun? Yeah, I hadn't considered that, and it sounds effective. Did you run Modest Mega-Sceptile to profit off Discharge boosts from the first turn? (I myself put a Boltbeaming Modest Download Pory2 in the backline; Terrain-boosted Thunderbolt got the job done whenever the SAtk boost appeared, but it's none too reliable; even when you can anticipate what you'll get against two given opponents -- if you know the sets -- these two were selected at random in the first place.)

I can't remember if Wild Charge was new in Gen7, but that could be a move to try for E-Terrain coverage as well. Edit: It wasn't and the distribution is worse than I had remembered.

Well, that too honestly. Its too bad we can't use victini or Magearna. trick room triples Magearna sounds so fun. Anyway, Mega Sceptile does sound great. I will try that actually. Koko is strong but its always seemed too weak to be the main attacker to me which is why I was considering Tpunch Metagross. Running modest is best I think; you can't really win against Loppuny3/4 or Heatran4 and risking the speed tie with Accellgor running Bug buzz which will OHKO Mega Sceptile is probably a bad idea. Manectric 3 runs overheat and can use Lightning rod, sits at 205 speed. I think I would run

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: overgrow
EVs: 4HP/4Def/252SpA/4SpDef/244Spd
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Dragon Pulse
- Nature Power
- Protect

You underspeed all Accellgor so you don't have to gamble with the one sitting at 197 speed. I will be using this with Koko. this sounds fun. Thanks for the idea ReptoAbysmal .

 

[Worldie]

I hate you, I wanted to try ReptoAbysmal idea with Koko+M-sceptile, only to realize Sceptile only gets dragon pulse as gen 6 tutor, and I don't have sceptile in gen 6.

Where is Smuckem where you need him? >:(

 

[NZtechfreak]

I can breed in gen 6 if people need.

 

[NZtechfreak]

Well, that too honestly. Its too bad we can't use victini or Magearna. trick room triples Magearna sounds so fun.

I really wish they would add another tier where you can use cover legendaries etc. Would be nice to be able to play with things like my Dream Radar Adamant Ho-Oh...

 

[Smuckem]

A small favor to ask the community-at-large.

There was a point last weekend where, between Maison and Tree, I noticed that every Stealth Rock user would set rocks down first and foremost, no matter what. I figured that this would could be a future rule of thumb I could apply in general for facilities. The following weekend, none of these users did so, either going for super-effective hits on my team, or in the case of phazers, going for the phaze straightaway (although I also found instances of Aggron1 going for Metal Burst first). Now, I'm not sure what to think regarding the AI's usage of this move.

This was originally going to be an affirmation of the general guideline, "if you're going to use a Sash, it has to lead", and I will still do so. But, it has gotten me curious as to how the AI treats entry hazards in terms of importance. So, I was going to ask everyone here, if they have a moment while they're on their Tree runs, to note if any Stealth Rock users they encounter go for that first. I myself will start recording instances of this between Subway/Maison/Tree, as I'm holding small streaks in all of these right now. I'm relatively certain folks in past facility threads have gone over this, but I wouldn't remember what they said (although I will be fixing this shortly). I want to limit this to SR data since this is the most commonly encountered entry hazard post-Legend and the most relevant for those here (despite their inherent problems, Fire/Flying and Volcarona are things people here want to try out at least semi-consistently).

Thx in advance for any data collected.

EDIT: As an example of what I'm up against, I'm using this team for Subway right now:

Team #2 (Codename: Sand)

Chople Berry, Brave Nature, Sand Stream
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
Rock Slide, Crunch, Ice Punch, Protect

Life Orb, Timid Nature, Intimidate
8 HP, 244 SpA, 252 Spe
Dragon Pulse, HP Flying, Flamethrower, Protect

Focus Sash, Adamant Nature, Sand Rush
76 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def, 4 SpD, 172 Spe
Earthquake, Rock Slide, Iron Head, Protect

Sitrus Berry, Calm Nature, Levitate
248 HP, 20 SpA, 20 SpD, 220 Spe
Thunderbolt, Hydro Pump, HP Ice, Protect

In the course of this run, I've encountered Stealth Rock users four times: twice against Tyranitar1, once against Cradily1, and once against Mamoswine1. In the first case of Tyranitar1, it Thunder Waved the leads, Rock Slide once, Thunder Wave (into a Excadrill switch-in), then was eliminated by Excadrill. In the second instance, it Thunder Waved the leads, Flung its Iron Ball (into a Rotom-W switch-in), Rock Slide, set rocks, Thunder Waved Rotom-W, then was eliminated by Excadrill. Against faster threats, status seems to be the priority for this set, followed by super-effective hits on Salamence. The instance against Cradily1 was me concentrating my Ice attacks against it (since its ally Bastiodon1 was spamming Wide Guard and -2 Iron Head), so it got one Stockpile, one Swallow, one more Stockpile, and then gone. As the Subway article has noted:

CPU tends to only use recovery moves when they are below half health. They sometimes, however, seem to "predict" when they will go below half health when their Pokemon is slower than yours.

Certainly was the case here.
Mamoswine1 went for the Ice Shard on Salamence, got it down to 45 or 46 HP, then was double-targeted and taken down. Here, going for the super-effective hit (with priority, coincidentally) was the clear priority.

A very small sample size, but one can tell that general AI tendencies prevail in the Subway, mostly those predicted by those in the tracks at that time.