Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[Smuckem]

Not sure who should be in the back on Gards side, Bisharp has nice switching synergy, but I'm not sure it brings much else to the table for the team. Heatran maybe?

Bisharp brings you a little more assurance against certain threats: frail Scarfers, TR setters (I don't see your leads being able to knock down some of them even with double-targeting), and certain opposing Megas that threaten MegaVoir. This all assumes Sucker Punch on it (STAB mitigates the Sucker Punch nerf to a degree). Also, using it gives the team an even physical/special offensive balance.
I will admit, of course, that I'm biased for Bisharp since it's taken me a little farther in Tree than Heatran. Then again, only Bisharp has been featured in what I would consider a serious team.

 

[Worldie]

You could consider Aegislash as last back. Wide Guard allows you to spam Earthquake to your heart's desire, on top of blocking the inevitable enemy Earthquakes and lot of spread moves that have high priority in double battles AI.
On top of being a excellent staller in case something went wrong.
A atk oriented set with Shadow Claw, Sacred Sword, King Shield and Wide Guard could potentially deal with double team spammers, several potential Curse users, while maintaining access to stab priority to pick off sturdy, endeavour and generally weakened pokemon.

Doubles into the Ghost weakness, but has plenty to go for it.

If you rather have a aggressive option, you could consider a very fast Z-move user so as soon as Garde dies you can Z-move the enemy face right away.
I would almost say Z-flynium Talonflame seeing it resists Steel and is immune to Earthquake.
But then I hate Talonflame.

 

[NZtechfreak]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, all have their appeal. I have a shiny Aegislash and a shiny Gale Wings Talonflame, so they stand out :)

Will look into Bisharp some more, never used it before so that's probably why I look at it and feel less convinced by it than other options.

None of the others besides Gard are fixed, so feel free to suggest other team comps, I feel like Mega-Blastoise offers a lot, but no doubt other things could be good/better. Considered Mega-Kang, brings Fake Out (and Fake Out that can hit ghosts), as well as appreciating Gardevoirs coverage for fighting mons, but doesn't offer the speed control Blastoise can bring in Icy Wind.

 

[Darth_Scorpion]

I'd suggest using a more offensive Mega-evolution than M-Blastoise - in Multi's, support tends not to work too well.
Mega-Salamence would give you some support with the initial Intimidate, but with significantly more power (and if you can breed it in Gen VI, you could give it Hyper Voice as a spread move).

 

[Pencilcheck]

Alright, here's the team:

Silvally @ Wide Lens ***ChaosLemures
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 212 HP / 4 Atk / 44 Def / 196 SpA / 52 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Parting Shot

Before going any further, let me just say my Silvally's stats here are sub-optimal. I picked up a Quiet Silvally because I intended to create some sort of bulky Assault Vest set with it for VGC. Instead, I found myself using it here in the Battle Tree. Running Modest at the very least would be better. Running a Defense or Special Defense boosting nature like Calm or Bold and investing fully into defenses would also make a good recommendation. However, even with the stat set up being sub-optimal, it at least didn't stop my Silvally from executing what it needed to.

The general idea here is to Thunder Wave the opponent, then Parting Shot to weaken them for Salamence to set up a sweep, or for Aegislash to eliminate the active Pokemon while taking minimal damage. Thunderbolt was used specifically to hit Bisharp or Milotic as they are risky to use Parting Shot against. Toxic was originally for Raikou-3, but came in handy in a few other situations throughout the run, usually as a way to corner a mon trying to set up and stay healthy with Recover or Roost. Why I needed it for Raikou-3 was because the Raikou cannot be paralyzed, has Thunder Wave to debilitate my Salamence, and has both Calm Mind and Charge Beam allowing it to boost up and become out of control in the long run. But since it takes a good 10 or so Turns before it gets out of control, Toxic keeps the damage from the Raikou well contained.

Wide Lens is crucial for comfort for using this team. While there is still that 1% chance I can miss with Thunder Wave (which happened about 6 or 7 times in 450 games), it still makes Thunder Wave into a move I can rely on repeatedly, game after game.

Salamence @ Salamencite ***WickedFlight
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

While I haven't been following what has been used lately in Singles, it doesn't take much to know that Mega Salamence is completely busted. EVs in Atk to get a bonus stat point. EVs in Speed to hit 143, outspeeding neutral Base 90s. Everything else into HP and Special Defense bulk.

Parting Shot support can let Salamence drop down a sub and not have it immediately broken by the opponent's attacks. Once I'm able to do that, it is pretty easy to constantly maintain a Sub up while Roosting back HP and slowly building up Dragon Dances. Once the music stops and Salamence is done dancing, there is very little in the way to stop it from running over everything with Aerilate boosted Returns.

While it's usually safe and easy to max out to +6 DD, I found myself fine stopping at +4 before going on the offense. Against some trainers, who are less likely to have bulky Rock- or Steel-type Pokemon, I can get away with fewer dances. Against certain trainers who are more likely to have Flying-type resists I'll go for the full +6.

It's important to know not to immediately Mega Evolve Salamence and instead take advantage of switching to cycle Intimidates before finally committing to set up. This will be talked about a bit more later on.

Aegislash @ Leftovers ***BLADE BEAM
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 84 SpA / 156 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
- King's Shield

12 Speed EVs to outspeed Tyranitar-4 by 1. 84 SpA for a bonus point of SpA, and the rest added into HP and SpDef.

Aegislash is pretty fun to use in Single Tree, and is a complete monster once it can get behind a Sub. After a Parting Shot to the opponent, Aegislash's Subs will often tank various STAB 90 power moves. And while it may take around 10 turns to do so, it can pretty much take out the opponent while having a Sub up, and still be at around 80~90% of its HP. While it does mean the opponent's active mon is no longer one that is debiliated by Thunder Wave or Parting Shot, being up 3v2 with my team being in good health, and with an active sub for Aegislash is often more than enough to maintain momentum for a win.


Using the Team:

To put simply:

The ability to switch around is very important for this team. Salamence has Intimidate, Silvally has Parting Shot, and Aegislash has an excellent set of resistances. Silvally's Ghost-type immunity, and Salamence's Ground-type immunity also creates a lot of situations for Aegislash to safely switch back out, allowing the team to cycle usage of Parting Shot and Intimidate. Ultimately, the ideal goal is to set up a situation where the opponent cannot break Salamence's Substitute, and then set up the Salamence sweep. But the team is a bit more flexible in not always needing to commit to trying to force the opportunity. Don't be afraid to just use Aegislash to safely knock out a Pokemon and create yourself a lead instead of putting in a great amount of resources to force an opportunity to set up Salamence.

Risk mitigation and patience are also traits needed for running the team. Since Silvally doesn't get sacrificed in this team in order to heavily debilitate the opponent, Salamence or Aegislash will often have to switch into an oncomming attack. If you aren't careful this can lead to some disastrous results like Mence getting OHKO'd by a critical hit through -5 Atk (hello Guzma @ Battle 450). Opponents are not locked into any moves, unlike TrickScarf strategies, so it is also imporant at times to keep track of how much PP they may have remaining in their moves in order to know when it is safe.

The team is far from foolproof as some of the teams of past days. While 449 is a pretty long streak, I had plenty of close calls throughout the run where I was barely able to scrape by, and would have lost if I was any less lucky.

Some Notable Threats:

Infiltrator

Naturally, if the opponent can just ignore my Substitutes it makes setting up a lot more difficult. Watch out for opponent Chandelures, Malamar and Noiverns.

Defiant / Competitive / Contrary

They can be Thunder Wave'd at least, but be wary of trying to use Parting shot against Pokemon such as Milotic, Bisharp, Braviary, Serperior, Lurantis or Malamar. Especially be careful about using King's Shield against Malamar and Lurantis.

Raikou-3

As mentioned earlier, it can't be Thunder Waved, it has Charge Beam and Calm Mind making Parting Shot somewhat useless, it has Thunder Wave and will use it to Paralyze Mence if I try to set up on it, and it has Shadow Ball for my Aegislash. This is why Toxic is on Silvally.

Taunt

All three of my Pokemon rely on non-damaging moves so Taunt can be pretty annoying. One thing to note, however, is that the AI is extremely trigger happy with using Taunt, so this can be exploited as you can play the battle slowly and eventually KO their active mon without taking too much damage in return.

Magnezone-4

It has Volt Switch, it has Assault Vest, it is 4x resistant to Return. I'll usually Parting Shot to Aegislash, then chip away and KO it with Aegislash. Pay attention to its damage output, as it may end up having Analytic, and will need 2 Parting Shots to allow Aegislash to wall Thunderbolts with Sub.

Thunder Wave / Toxic / Will-o-Wisp

Pay attention to opponents that have status moves. Salamence can sort of just tough it out if it gets Paralyzed or Burned due to the nerfs to those status, but it's still best to avoid dealing with those things. Getting Salamence hit by Toxic though is obviously a no-go. I often try to let Silvally get hit by status so that the opponents will not try to use a status move as I switch in Salamence, then set up Substitute. Watch out for Mega Banette as it has Prankster WoW.

Charizard-4, Gyarados-4

Dragon Dance mons that can do a real number to Aegislash if they can catch me without a Sub up. I had one game where Mega Gyarados just went really wild with using Dragon Dances, so these two can be pretty dangerous.

Mega Lopunny

Normally Aegislash would be my go-to choice to switch in against Fighting moves. Not so here. It's best to switch to Mence first, bait an Ice Punch and switch to Aegislash, and let Lopunny just KO itself by HJK into King's shields.

Soundproof / Clear Body

These will block Silvally from switching out through use of Parting Shot. Fortunately, most of these mons are also easily handled by Aegislash. As such, try not to use Parting Shot against Tentacruel, Carbink, Metagross, Kommo-o, Abomasnow (if no Snow Warning), Bouffalant or Electrode

Terrakion

There's one Terrakion set that has Swords Dance. So while it may seem like a good idea to switch immediately to Aegislash to avoid a Fighting-type move, it can quickly cause the match to get ugly if Terrakion starts setting up. As such, it's better to just go for the Thunder Wave with Silvally, even though it risks the chance that it will be OHKO'd by Terrakion-1's Close Combat. All the Terrakion sets have Earthquake, making it fairly easy to cycle switches between Aegislash and Salamence to Intimidate it down before setting up the Mence Sweep.


During my play through of the Tree, I tried to note some AI Tendencies, or at least what I can recall might be different than what it was in the past:

-The AI will usually switch out immediately if they have expended all usable attacking move PP, at least of moves that can hit your active pokemon. They'll also usually switch out if they've expended all PP of a move they are choice locked into. Often times, if they DON'T switch out despite not having any effective moves, it means that their other Pokemon are easily KOable by your active mon.

-I can't remember if this was the case before, but the AI recognizes when you have a Sub up. They will not waste time throwing status moves that will get blocked by Sub. Pain Split is a rare exception to this rule.

-if they can Mega Evolve their active mon, they will always do so immediately. Sucks for Wally when he decides it's a good idea to bring Mega Garchomp, Mega Gallade, AND Mega Altaria. lol

-AI seems to love activating weather and using Taunt. I feel they put high priority into using these moves above everything outside from using a move that can KO your active mon.

-having a stat at +6 won't stop the opponent from using a boosting move that boosts multiple stats. eg. They will still use Dragon Dance if they are at +6 Speed, but not +6 Atk. However, this doesn't seem to apply for the use of Curse as they stop using that once they hit -6 Speed.

-The AI still does not recognize Return as a 102 power move, and will instead use their other attacks over use of STAB Return

-The AI's selection of moves can become a bit strange in situations where they've run out of PP of their primary move to use against your active mon. eg. vs Raikou-4, if it has run out of Thunder vs Salamence, it doesn't always stick to using Discharge, and instead randomly throws Extrasensory at me even though it is less optimal. Another one would be Nidoqueen 3 actually being more likely to use Ice Beam instead of Flamethrower against my Aegislash after it runs out of Earth Power.

-Double Battle AI is a little bit smarter when it comes to dealing with a L1 mon. From what I could tell, the faster of their two active mons (or slower of the two when TR is active, or the one that has priority moves other than Fake Out) will be provoked towards going for a KO against the L1, but the other Pokemon will still choose moves as if it isn't on kill mode (unless it's able to KO your other Pokemon).


Other Notes:

-I didn't notice this but... the Battle Tree Pokemon do not have any Battle Resort or Battle Frontier Tutor moves anymore.

-When you are past 50, you predominantly face 2 different sets (set 3 or set 4) for non-legendaries, and 4 different sets for legendaries (though not all trainers will run all 4 sets), but there are a lot more trainers that will run both set 3 and 4 of a mon.

-the RNG on what decides what trainer you face does still seem a bit strange at times like it is in XY, where you can end up facing the same few trainers repeatedly, and never see some of the other trainers. eg. I still haven't seen Anabel to recruit her for Multi Tree =(

Reaching 500 first here is still up for grabs, hopefully this post helps for people planning their future runs at the Tree. I don't think I'll be trying another run at singles in the near future, but may try to find something good for doubles.

Good Luck.

People recommending this team and trying it out.

And damn, I can't even get through the first couple battles when trying this team initially, i'm getting better now and prob getting better luck, but this is still not as smooth as other teams. Perhaps I'm just too stupid to understand how to play with this team.

The original post does not go in details on how to counter some of the threats as leads, and missing some annoying threats, but if you meet steel pokemons (e.g. magnazone), dark and ice and water (e.g. sharpedo), fire and poison (e.g. multiple set of salazzles), psychic (e.g. alakazam), or whirlwind, roar pokemons (e.g. skarmony), or full fire pokemons, infiltrators, which is pretty much very common in battle tree now pre-10 since battle tree will lean towards countering your team, you will have trouble if you want to follow the strategy since parting shot will not be useful and will not make your salamence sub to take more than one shot still. Or perhaps I should not try to setup in front of their face even with parting shot in place and just run return all the way instead and see which one can kill first.

Other than that I think the team sounds cool in theory but it is hard to execute in practice in my opinion. Your silvally will still get almost always 1-2 shot away from dead (and can still get status as well) after setting up the thunder wave + parting shot dance, therefore switching back in is still very dangerous. Switching to salamence you can still get status as well.

This is not the complete list but just a quick runthrough of the team after fighting about 20 tries of battle tree.
1. Thunder wave is useful but the Parting shot trick and salamence setup is only useful in very limited teams (at least pre-10 battles), only use it if the pokemon is always not going to super effect your salamence or break sub in one shot even after parting shot (which means anything not dragon, ice, fire, psychic, poison, steel, status, setup moves, etc)
2. If you switch to aegislash, on the possibility of fire, dark pokemon teams etc, after doing the parting shot dance, you basically waste the setup if you kill it, and have to switch back to silvally if the next pokemon counters aegislash (fire, dark, etc), and you will die by doing that, especially most team will have pokemon that counters your team, then your team crumbles. Therefore I think it is best to not switch to aegislash unless you are 100% certain you can mostly tank through the whole team with aegislash.
3. If you switch to salamence, make sure you can setup to 4+ and hide behind a sub like the guide said, which in my opinion is pretty hard unless you get lucky, otherwise you will still get defeated if you meet pokemon that your flying type does not hit at least normal effective (e.g. staller sleep steel).
4. Using this team you have to make sure the first pokemon will not switch, since AI will still switch if it see fit, which after trying many times it will happen. That means parting shot is useless, and you have to switch back and restart which means you will never get to do it since your silvally is mostly one shot away from death.
5. This team reminds me of durant team, you need a lot of knowledge of tree to be able to use this team effectively. Need a lot of patience to get lucky, and still pretty hard though.
6. Hyposis focus sash gengar will be annoying, and if you get unlucky, you will die. Very likely the best way to beat it is to pray that you will wake up in time. Otherwise your team really has no real way to counter it.
7. Don't get this often, but if you get bulk up, curse staller team, you better switch to all out attack mode and don't try to setup since some staller team can easily kill your team if you are not careful (e.g. curse sleep hippowdon, etc)

Yea, if you random enough times so you don't get that much threat pre-10, you will get an easier time with this team.
But if you want 200 wins, and you don't know much about the tree (e.g. playing since maison and for for months etc and trying at least 10+ teams), I don't recommend using this team at all.

Just want to share some opinion and feeling about trying out teams on the leaderboard. I hope this will help some people who are also doing the same.

 

[paperquagsire]

People recommending this team and trying it out.

And damn, I can't even get through the first couple battles when trying this team initially, i'm getting better now and prob getting better luck, but this is still not as smooth as other teams. Perhaps I'm just too stupid to understand how to play with this team.

The original post does not go in details on how to counter some of the threats as leads, and missing some annoying threats, but if you meet steel pokemons (e.g. magnazone), dark and ice and water (e.g. sharpedo), fire and poison (e.g. multiple set of salazzles), psychic (e.g. alakazam), or whirlwind, roar pokemons (e.g. skarmony), or full fire pokemons, infiltrators, which is pretty much very common in battle tree now pre-10 since battle tree will lean towards countering your team, you will have trouble if you want to follow the strategy since parting shot will not be useful and will not make your salamence sub to take more than one shot still. Or perhaps I should not try to setup in front of their face even with parting shot in place and just run return all the way instead and see which one can kill first.

Other than that I think the team sounds cool in theory but it is hard to execute in practice in my opinion. Your silvally will still get almost always 1-2 shot away from dead (and can still get status as well) after setting up the thunder wave + parting shot dance, therefore switching back in is still very dangerous. Switching to salamence you can still get status as well.

This is not the complete list but just a quick runthrough of the team after fighting about 20 tries of battle tree.
1. Thunder wave is useful but the Parting shot trick and salamence setup is only useful in very limited teams (at least pre-10 battles), only use it if the pokemon is always not going to super effect your salamence or break sub in one shot even after parting shot (which means anything not dragon, ice, fire, psychic, poison, steel, status, setup moves, etc)
2. If you switch to aegislash, on the possibility of fire, dark pokemon teams etc, after doing the parting shot dance, you basically waste the setup if you kill it, and have to switch back to silvally if the next pokemon counters aegislash (fire, dark, etc), and you will die by doing that, especially most team will have pokemon that counters your team, then your team crumbles. Therefore I think it is best to not switch to aegislash unless you are 100% certain you can mostly tank through the whole team with aegislash.
3. If you switch to salamence, make sure you can setup to 4+ and hide behind a sub like the guide said, which in my opinion is pretty hard unless you get lucky, otherwise you will still get defeated if you meet pokemon that your flying type does not hit at least normal effective (e.g. staller sleep steel).
4. Using this team you have to make sure the first pokemon will not switch, since AI will still switch if it see fit, which after trying many times it will happen. That means parting shot is useless, and you have to switch back and restart which means you will never get to do it since your silvally is mostly one shot away from death.
5. This team reminds me of durant team, you need a lot of knowledge of tree to be able to use this team effectively. Need a lot of patience to get lucky, and still pretty hard though.
6. Hyposis focus sash gengar will be annoying, and if you get unlucky, you will die. Very likely the best way to beat it is to pray that you will wake up in time. Otherwise your team really has no real way to counter it.
7. Don't get this often, but if you get bulk up, curse staller team, you better switch to all out attack mode and don't try to setup since some staller team can easily kill your team if you are not careful (e.g. curse sleep hippowdon, etc)

Yea, if you random so you don't get that much threat pre-10, you will get an easier time with this team.
But if you want 200 wins, and you don't know much about the tree (e.g. playing since maison and for for months etc and trying at least 10+ teams), I don't recommend using this team at all.

Just want to share some opinion and feeling about trying out teams on the leaderboard. I hope this will help some people who are also doing the same.

I'd just like to point out there's a list of every Pokémon set, might want to utilize it

 

[Pencilcheck]

Yea, of course I know that list. Just too lazy to have to look up every possible set of every pokemon for all battles. Sometimes pre-10 I just want to blaze through it.

 

[Worldie]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, all have their appeal. I have a shiny Aegislash and a shiny Gale Wings Talonflame, so they stand out :)

Will look into Bisharp some more, never used it before so that's probably why I look at it and feel less convinced by it than other options.

None of the others besides Gard are fixed, so feel free to suggest other team comps, I feel like Mega-Blastoise offers a lot, but no doubt other things could be good/better. Considered Mega-Kang, brings Fake Out (and Fake Out that can hit ghosts), as well as appreciating Gardevoirs coverage for fighting mons, but doesn't offer the speed control Blastoise can bring in Icy Wind.

The ideal scenario for Multis is to just have 2 very high damage threats (possibly but not necessarly spread move users... if you are using Mega Garde for your son and have access to breed it in gen 6, make sure to get it Hyper Voice as tutored move, as that's what distinguishes Mega Garde from other mediocre megas. (or if you don't but still want, most of us can provide you a gen 6 one with Hyper Voice :3 )

Seeing Mega Garde has issues breaking through most steel types, you could consider having a 2nd frontline that can do that.
Mega Salamence as mentioned is a great option, but also relies on being a generation 6 Spatk version with Hyper Voice to stand out in doubles.
I would mention M-Chari Y, but it has a terrible 4x weak to Rock that in battle tree is risky to carry, and Drought is a double edged sword which might backfire.
Mega Manectric, while not the greatest on its own, adds intimidate support and Flamethrower coverage, + a very strong Volt Switch.

Otherwise, you could just run a fast lead, like Sash Pheromosa, or Z-electrium Tapu Koko, and just Zmove the face of whatever enemy stands in Garde's way.
If Garde has Telepathy as ability, you can use Garchomp, and eventually wait to mega evo if you need to get off a Earthquake, or the very standard Z-groundium Garchomp used in VGC.
You could also be a man and run Scarfed Lele. Not only it gives another +50% damage to garde's psychic or psyshock, but also negates priority to cover for Garde's mediocre bulk. However this'd force you into running shadow ball coverage and still be hardwalled by opposer Bisharps and several other Dark+resist fairy types.

Just throwing there some ideas for you.

Overally anyway, pick possibly 4 fast high damage pokes, who can focus down one enemy trainer fast, with spread moves acces being a big plus, and focus down 1 trainer so the battle becomes 2v1.

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[Level 51]

Sometimes when I play Battle Tree I just want to blaze through the first 10 battles. That is why I have gotten so much experience with the tree, because less time per battle = faster runs! Oh, and also because I don't usually get past 50 XD. I know there are ways to do far better in the Tree but instead of taking the time to look up sets before I make moves in my battles I'll just go ahead and guess my way through, and then write extremely long posts about why other people's teams, written by people with way more experience than me (but don't forget I'm still a veteran with experience since the MAISON!!!). Oh also the Battle Tree cheats lol

 

[Maunzi]

Quick reminder that I made a spreadsheet (= https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADM7GZ6-xAuZiRhaG7Xe1zdK3CD5Fi803O9Dn7T8hmc ) for my PheroLele-runs in which I documented almost 600 battles incl. Pokémon/Sets of the opponents and how the battle went for most battles (clean sweep = won with 4 Pokémon alive, sweep = easy win with 1-3 Pokémon alive). Feel free to analyze the spreadsheet so you can see that the Tree is in fact not counterteaming.

I also documented over 200 battles from my run with Lando-T/Toxa/Mence-M in another spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MxsvsRH2h7xVvKEcoyaLXLbiN8/edit#gid=454490541

 

[Pencilcheck]

...


You seem to insist that people actually have to "random enough times" to achieve 10-win streaks with Aegi/Mence teams against 6IV opponents with bad sets. This just suggests that you're bad at playing this game, and going on about how other teams can't possibly break 10 "without luck", rather than demonstrating and using your own, doesn't help your case.

Incredulity about the team being well-designed enough to reach 450 consistently is wholly different. You also make a good point that using a slow crippling lead, yet no set-up move on Aegislash, loses synergy whenever you're forced to KO the target of Parting Shot with Aegi.


There is only one possible set for the first nine battles. This was the point of those who argued against switching teams. Including yourself.


...


I recommend thought either over prayer, or as prayer.

Hypnosis Gengar -- and I'm not sure why this damn thing is brought up so often, because if you can't handle fast sleep with your team, then you should just as well be afraid of, say, Crobat-4 -- should never pose a threat to that team. Switch between Aegi and Silvally to deplete Shadow Ball and Hypnosis (letting Aegi take the sleep T1) while taking exactly no damage. Of course, when you're trying to "blaze through" battles, you'll put yourself into unnecessary danger instead. For the record, with 6 IVs,

252 SpA Gengar Dream Eater vs. 212 HP / 52 SpD Silvally: 52-62 (26.3 - 31.4%)
252 SpA Salazzle Flamethrower vs. 212 HP / 52 SpD Silvally: 63-75 (31.9 - 38%)

You should be able to cripple those. That said, one of the apparent flaws of the Parting Shot + Thunder Wave combination is that whenever Silvally is faster, you might have to switch subless Mence into attacks with side effects like Flamethrower, which is the last thing you should want.

The computer only ever switches out when it can't hit you for damage with any of its moves, or would have to use Struggle. The most dangerous (i.e. least predictable / least controllable) switches occur via U-turn/Volt Switch/Baton Pass. Ambiguity can arise when the enemy can use Toxic, but you're immune to all its moves, in which case I've seen both a switch and Toxic happen (specifically, that's the behaviour of Thundurus-1 against Gastrodon).

You should probably upload battle videos. That would allow others to judge better whether you've misplayed, or discovered a genuine flaw in a team.

I welcome constructive feedback, I have some teams that I worked on which I can blaze through 60+ with no problem, but some teams on the leaderboard just takes time.
For example, I just went through the tree with this team Gengar, Mega Salamence, Clefable and basically blaze through until battle 61, and here is the losing battle ID: GJEG-WWWW-WWW8-STTN.
Basically I predicted the wrong set of tauros and lost the game. Surprised that thrash one shot Mega salamence. Will note that in the future.


Back to the guide:
I purposefully start out with silvally as suggested, because if it is mega-salamence lead and aegislash as support, I have done a lot of other teams like that with no problem getting at least 30+ everytime. However, I was "following" the guide made in the original post, and try to stick to it, and turns out it doesn't perform as well as I thought it would. Not trying to be mean but I don't think you read my post did you?

I am suggesting that there are still some randomness to the initial teams that sometimes some more difficult teams that rely more on probability will appear less and thus the team will have an easier time to go through some battles.

And I never once said that other teams can't break 10 without luck, first I already mentioned, this is my first tries using the team, I'm just a newbie coming in and trying out the team and recommended strategy. Second, if the team sucks, I would've said so, but I didn't say that. If you read my post, you should see that I'm simply sharing my experience, and some of my thoughts about how I would solve the situation. I even mentioned that without extensive knowledge, newbie might not be recommended if the goal is to get to 200 for the berry.

And finally, the hypnosis XXX uber fast pokemon I classified as "annoying" threat, because I have gone through a lot of other teams against those types and there are a lot of workarounds and constant switching is one of them as you mentioned. I don't considered as "real" threat.

I brought up gengar simply because it is the pokemon that I met in the battle tree, if it is crobat I will say crobat, if it is gardevoir I will say gardevoir but the latter two usually comes less often and much latter in the tree.

Sometimes when I play Battle Tree I just want to blaze through the first 10 battles. That is why I have gotten so much experience with the tree, because less time per battle = faster runs! Oh, and also because I don't usually get past 50 XD. I know there are ways to do far better in the Tree but instead of taking the time to look up sets before I make moves in my battles I'll just go ahead and guess my way through, and then write extremely long posts about why other people's teams, written by people with way more experience than me (but don't forget I'm still a veteran with experience since the MAISON!!!). Oh also the Battle Tree cheats lol

Oh god, please do share your experience, that sounds awesome to me. Show me your tricks.

I also written another team I lost in 63 a couple pages back, if you can also criticize it that would be awesome.

Quick reminder that I made a spreadsheet (= https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADM7GZ6-xAuZiRhaG7Xe1zdK3CD5Fi803O9Dn7T8hmc ) for my PheroLele-runs in which I documented almost 600 battles incl. Pokémon/Sets of the opponents and how the battle went for most battles (clean sweep = won with 4 Pokémon alive, sweep = easy win with 1-3 Pokémon alive). Feel free to analyze the spreadsheet so you can see that the Tree is in fact not counterteaming.

I also documented over 200 battles from my run with Lando-T/Toxa/Mence-M in another spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MxsvsRH2h7xVvKEcoyaLXLbiN8/edit#gid=454490541

Wow, that is pure awesomeness!

MOD EDIT: Do not double post. Certainly don't triple post.

 

[paperquagsire]

Alright not to be rude, but there's an edit button so you don't triple post. Just thought I'd tell you, not trying to be aggressive or condescending in any way just genuinely wanted to let you know so you don't do it again

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[GG Unit]

Incredulity about the team being well-designed enough to reach 450 consistently is wholly different.

Or being able to get over twice that amount while copy/pasting two sets from the team (which were built for setting up against opponents that have already been crippled by 99% accurate Thunder Wave) and using a 3rd team member not because it is optimal, but because it is arbitrarily unique.

You should be able to cripple those. That said, one of the apparent flaws of the Parting Shot + Thunder Wave combination is that whenever Silvally is faster, you might have to switch subless Mence into attacks with side effects like Flamethrower, which is the last thing you should want.

I would think the team works to the extent that it does because Aegislash is largely disposable. If the opponent's already Thunder Waved, you can bring Aegislash in off a Parting Shot and have a good chance of PP stalling Flamethrower or whatever the annoying move you don't want to switch Salamence into happens to be. Beyond that, just letting Aegislash or Silvally faint so you can bring in Salamence for free and fully set up (at just -2 it's going to take a STAB super effective special attack to break the Sub in one hit) is pretty good as far as plan Bs go, and plan C of trying to sweep with a burned +6 Mega Mence behind a sub is going to work out a high percentage of the time too. Obviously there are worse moves than Flamethrower to have to switch Mence into, but the same general techniques would limit its exposure to them.

 

[NZtechfreak]

The ideal scenario for Multis is to just have 2 very high damage threats (possibly but not necessarly spread move users... if you are using Mega Garde for your son and have access to breed it in gen 6, make sure to get it Hyper Voice as tutored move, as that's what distinguishes Mega Garde from other mediocre megas. (or if you don't but still want, most of us can provide you a gen 6 one with Hyper Voice :3 )

Seeing Mega Garde has issues breaking through most steel types, you could consider having a 2nd frontline that can do that.
Mega Salamence as mentioned is a great option, but also relies on being a generation 6 Spatk version with Hyper Voice to stand out in doubles.
I would mention M-Chari Y, but it has a terrible 4x weak to Rock that in battle tree is risky to carry, and Drought is a double edged sword which might backfire.
Mega Manectric, while not the greatest on its own, adds intimidate support and Flamethrower coverage, + a very strong Volt Switch.

Otherwise, you could just run a fast lead, like Sash Pheromosa, or Z-electrium Tapu Koko, and just Zmove the face of whatever enemy stands in Garde's way.
If Garde has Telepathy as ability, you can use Garchomp, and eventually wait to mega evo if you need to get off a Earthquake, or the very standard Z-groundium Garchomp used in VGC.
You could also be a man and run Scarfed Lele. Not only it gives another +50% damage to garde's psychic or psyshock, but also negates priority to cover for Garde's mediocre bulk. However this'd force you into running shadow ball coverage and still be hardwalled by opposer Bisharps and several other Dark+resist fairy types.

Just throwing there some ideas for you.

Overally anyway, pick possibly 4 fast high damage pokes, who can focus down one enemy trainer fast, with spread moves acces being a big plus, and focus down 1 trainer so the battle becomes 2v1.

Yeah, I bred Gard in AS for Hypervoice. Can breed Mence there too if needed/wanted.

Lele and Manectric are two I have considered. I won't go the Lele route because I don't want the stacked weaknesses, but Manectric definitely a possibility. I have a hypertrained HP Ice Manectric at the ready, so it's no trouble to add. Main reason I wasn't that keen on Manectric was due to having two frail mons in the front, but then at least 1 KO is virtually assured, so maybe I should make my peace with hyperoffense and have a go (and the Intimidate assists the bulk situation).

Will think some more, I have most stuff all set to go and a bit of time yet before he finishes Moon...

Thanks a lot for the input to all of you who have volunteered ideas.

 

[Worldie]

Mainly the big deal of multis is that it's 2 trainers with 1 reserve each on both sides, meaning that 2 frail leads who can threaten 1hkos two turns in a row generally will simply push in a 2v1 situation which is near autowin.

You can also have a bulky backline for yourself which has access to Helping Hand, to help your son's garde and 2nd poke to break through the enemy as well.

Or a sort-of-suicidal FollowMe MegaLucario which can potentially just attract stuff on himself (resists dark, neutral to ghost, immune to poison which threaten M-garde) and at same time threatens lot of 1hkos myself with Adaptabiliy Close Combat / Iron Head on things that resist Garde's stabs.

 

[Zerox27]

Hi, I'm running into a few problems with Steel/Ice/Ghost types. I played a bit of Maison (100 streaks max) but I'm still a noob and new to the Tree.
I'm running SilverLining's team from this post with the only difference being my Salamence is Male and the Attack stats on P2 and Aegislash. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-tree-discussion-and-records.3587215/page-90#post-7447135

My problems are Return not hitting Ghosts, Toxic not hitting Steel/Poison types and Steel resistances to my limited moves, and getting spammed by Ice types early on.

Porygon2 is a monster and often sweeps. Aegislash is a great answer with Flash Cannon to Ice types of course and Shadow Ball on Ghosts but he's slow and seems to be fainted a lot? I'm not sure exactly how, I'll pay more attention and be back.

TLDR I'm not really feeling MSalamence, is there a replacement? I have a Lum Berry Dragonite from Gen 6 that I'm considering? Could I teach Fire Fang to MMence? The 95 Accuracy seems like it might end some streaks but it would help the Steel and Ice problems to an extent...

Obviously it's me and my play and not the team with SilverLining's streak(s) so maybe some advice would fix my problem as well. :)

I'll be paying more attention to exactly how I'm losing. Going to be playing a lot today. :)

 

[paperquagsire]

I'd try a scarf krookodile lead with intimidate. Lowers the power of physical attackers, hits steel, poison, and ghost, and garde helps against its fighting weakness. Maybe groundium could work as well so you don't EQ your gardevoir

 

[Altissimo]

Obviously it's me and my play and not the team with SilverLining's streak(s) so maybe some advice would fix my problem as well. :)

Don't be so quick to assume it's not the team's problem. The Aegislash and MMence sets are the same as those from a team where they were optimized so that Aegislash and MMence would be able to function best after a lead used Thunder Wave, which isn't the case with P2 - they are likely not optimized for P2.

In general, that streak is, ehm... less than proven as far as some people in this thread are concerned. See here (the first paragraph somewhat restates what I have said above, which is where I based my words on) and here for words by GG Unit , an incredibly experienced & smart player, on the subject.

 

[Worldie]

There's also the issue that P2 has several times proved to be a inconsistent addition to the team, specifically because of the mediocre power without good Downloads, and overally mediocre stats compared to other walls.

It's a great pokemon -for competitive scenario- but excessively inconsistent for Battle tree, for issues that you very well noticed.

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[Martin890]

First time posting here so hi everyone!
Alright, so I started doing some Battle Tree for these past few days since I was getting somewhat bored (and try to overcome my fear of Walrein) and I was testing a Scolipass team with Garchomp and MegaMence (don't ask me why) and suddenly, once I hit 35 battles, something really odd happened:

ALUW-WWWW-WWW8-TDKE

This is the battle video showcasing the anomally. Was Thrash always able to last for 5 turns? Or was Outrage the only one with 2-3 turns? Sorry if this might have been pointed out before, only now did I saw it.

On another note, why is Batton Pass so good, geez.

 

[GG Unit]

Gonna assume you used Protect, which resets the timer on those moves.

Zerox27 Return does indeed hit Ghost types when Salamence is mega evolved, but as for what that team is supposed to do against hard-hitting Toxic immunities in the lead position (Bisharp, Drapion, Magnezone) I'm not exactly sure myself.

 

[Smuckem]

Hypnosis Gengar -- and I'm not sure why this damn thing is brought up so often, because if you can't handle fast sleep with your team, then you should just as well be afraid of, say, Crobat-4 -- should never pose a threat to that team. Switch between Aegi and Silvally to deplete Shadow Ball and Hypnosis (letting Aegi take the sleep T1) while taking exactly no damage.

It's tradition. I've guesstimated that 7-8% of everyone who posts in a battle facility thread over its active lifetime simply cannot wrap their head around the switch-stalling concept. As a result, sets like Gengar1, who are utterly helpless against the tactic, become conundrums for them. Cradily3 would probably be another problem for these folks, if any of them consistently could get far enough in a facility to face it often.

I should thank those hapless folks for their troubles, though...encouraged me to create my own Gengar1.