Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (read post #453, page 19)

Oh good, some doubles activity, I was getting worried for a while.


Mega Blastoise and Aromatisse are fun, I've used both but not on the same team. Let me dig a bit on spreads.
ok, here:

Aromatisse @ Chesto Berry
Relaxed (+Def, -Spe), 252 HP, 196 Def, 56 Sp. Def
Ability: Aroma Veil

- Moonblast
- Rest
- Trick Room
- Heal Pulse

Blastoise @ Mega
Quiet, 252 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 Sp. Def
Ability: Torrent (Mega Launcher)

- Water Spout
- Protect
- Fake Out
- Ice Beam

Aromatisse is a general spread, eats Khan's Double-Edge, Char-Y's Fire Blast, and 252+ Aegislash Flash Cannon (and Iron Head from non-existant physical sets).
Chesto-Rest with no Protect looks bizarre, I know, but it serves two-fold. Number one, eats a Dark Void / Spore to further assure setup, and number two, keeps Aromatisse healthy especially if it needs to eat a hit for setup. You generally want to avoid stalling Protect during TR. Rest and Heal Pulse keep both members of your duo at high HP.

Mega Blastoise is very standard set, doesn't need a specialized spread in TR. Tanks nearly any Thunderbolt or Solarbeam tossed at it.


After that you ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE an Amoonguss / Ferrothorn counter. I would look into Mega Camerupt as a double-mega option, but for non-megas Heatran is pretty good. Sub Aegislash also works and is able to set up against them. Escavalier is very dangerous and immune to Spore thanks to Overcoat, but doesn't do much to Ferrothorn.
Many TR teams run two Trick Room inducers, to better maintain control and adapt to different matchups. Best pairs for Aromatisee are Gothitelle, Cresselia, and Reuniclus. Goth traps and keeps matchups favorable, and offers Fake tears/Heal Pulse support for Blastoise. Cress has immense bulk for repeated TR sets, but offense is laughable and relies on Helping Hand; this falters if Blastoise is low on HP. Reuniclus does not trap, but is very hard hitting and is pretty flexible; you can run Magic Guard + LO, or Overcoat for Spore immunity. Heals itself via Recover to boot.

Goodra has excellent coverage but really needs LO to nab most KOs and its horrible Defense leaves you stuck against common physical mons like Khan, Landog, Terrakion, Mence, Mawile, etc. I don't suggest running it, its a niche mon usually added as a glue or blanket check to specialized threats.
Hi! Thanks for the quick reply!! I have a couple of questions :3 first of all, why isn't there a rain dance on the aromatisse? I mean, I am trying to up my water spout damage with blastoise so it seems kinda necessary... unless you were just showing me your own spread (I'm very new to Pokémon forums lol). A rain dance would also help Goodra but, to be honest, I've never played one, so imma take your word for it.

I've been going crazy about how to build aegislash because I only have one quiet shiny 5 IV 0 spd IV honedge and I really don't wanna waste him, so what's the ideal build for it on this team? And if it's the sub build, what would the spread and move set look like?

Also, maybe I should go for more water users if I'm using rain, and I gotta figure out how to build my second TR setter which would also be nice as a rain dancer too.

Pardon my ignorance but I have no idea what LO is lol.

Ferrothorn with a gyro ball and a grass STAB would be viable with this team right?
 
Hi! Thanks for the quick reply!! I have a couple of questions :3 first of all, why isn't there a rain dance on the aromatisse? I mean, I am trying to up my water spout damage with blastoise so it seems kinda necessary... unless you were just showing me your own spread (I'm very new to Pokémon forums lol). A rain dance would also help Goodra but, to be honest, I've never played one, so imma take your word for it.

I've been going crazy about how to build aegislash because I only have one quiet shiny 5 IV 0 spd IV honedge and I really don't wanna waste him, so what's the ideal build for it on this team? And if it's the sub build, what would the spread and move set look like?

Also, maybe I should go for more water users if I'm using rain, and I gotta figure out how to build my second TR setter which would also be nice as a rain dancer too.

Pardon my ignorance but I have no idea what LO is lol.

Ferrothorn with a gyro ball and a grass STAB would be viable with this team right?
Oh, my bad on Rain Dance LOL. Yeath that was a spread I had down in my notes from forever ago, I think it's the standard set in the Smogon dex (or very similar at least).
Moonblast / Trick Room / Rain Dance / Heal Pulse then I think is your set; all I'm suggesting is EVs :P

Quiet is 100% fine for Aegislash; preferred nature, in fact. Aegislash can effectively run a simple spread:

Aegislash @ Leftovers / Sitrus
Quiet, 252 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 Sp. Def
Ability: Stance Change

- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield
- Substitute
- Flash Cannon

Standard that Aegis has used since VGC14. Sub blocks Spore, Will-o-Wisp, and other bothers, while also generating a lot of pressure on your foe. Protects against critical hits, and if your foe is foolish enough to ignore it (or forced to, via Follow Me/Rage Powder) then Sub allows you to attack multiple times with no fear of being hit in its very frail Blade forme. King's Shield is non-negotiable on Aegis to swap from Blade -> Shield and help stall + gather Leftovers recovery.
Aegislash is a very rare case of a Doubles pokemon that gets more out of Leftovers than Sitrus in general, and Sitrus is best on your Aromatisse since its not running Rest.
Shadow Ball is STAB and great coverage; only resists are Dark types and Kangaskhan. Khan however is mere setup for Sub + Flash Cannon.
Flash Cannon bombs Fairies, Tyranitar, and hits Kangaskhan for acceptable damage.

TR + Rain on the second setter? Fair enough. Gothitelle can do this, as can Cresselia and Reuniclus, the ones I explained above. Psychic / Trick Room / Rain Dance / filler.
Good Water attackers in TR... Toed works, and is an automatic Rain Dance. Gastrodon is good, and that's all I have off the top of my head.
Oh whoops. LO is Life Orb.

Ferrothorn is very good in Trick Room, as is Amoonguss. Ferrothorn can ru Gyro Ball against fast threats, or you can run Iron Head for consistent damage and a flinch chance. Spreads for Ferrothorn have been complicated business ever since Gen 5, but the dex does have a few good ones. Amoonguss only ever runs one set, and that's up on site. Extremely "fast" Spore in Trick Room is the main appeal.

Rhyperior, Hariyama, Conkeldurr, Sylveon, and Escavalier are some other established TR Offense pokemon. You don't want too many Water mons on one team, even the most dedicated Rain teams only run 2 Waters to avoid being crushed by Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, Thundurus, etc.
 
They typically are not paired, as Chomp is used in general goodstuff and Sun teams while TTar appears most often as Japan Sand builds (TTar + Excadrill + Mence/Garde) that stack many weaknesses with Garchomp.
I HAVE, however, recently faced a brilliant, high-rated Japanese player running TTar / Suicune / Crobat / Gardevoir / Mence / Garchomp. This is a very technical team that is probably bad for beginners, but I will post it for interested people.
From what I gathered in the battle and video, his team flowed like this:

1) Garchomp and Mence were his megas. I will expand in a bit.
2) Gardevoir was Specs, a common VGC14 set that is basically forgotten these days. Serves as a surprise set to check opposing Dragons, fighting types, Amoonguss, etc. and bluff a mega.
3) Crobat and Suicune are dedicated Tailwind support, he brings one or the other based on matchups.
4) TTar was Scarf, a fairly standard set. Used to set Sand for Mega Chomp and has nice offense next to Mence. Fishes for flinches and is the main breaker to Cresselia.
5) Tailwind + Sand mega Chomp will rip your fucking nuts off in ways you do not want to imagine. Astronomical EQ spam and brutal Rock slides are not a joke.
6) Additionally, Garchomp functions very well as a Landog substitute, and runs adequately without an item if Mega Mence is chosen. Chomp + MegaMence is obviously Icy Wind bait, but without Gardevoir/Icy Wind mons on the field, Hyper Voice + EQ hurts and Flying + Ground is great coverage. Ttar/Chomp handles Zapdos/Thundy pretty well.

If you can grasp his team I dare say it's pretty damn eloquent and creative. He was 1757 when I saw him and that's higher than I ever got LOL.
Unfortunately he was no match for the Weakness Policy, Hammer Arm + Ice Punch Regirock I was running once he set up Sand. He didn't bring the Suicune.

In general Mega Garchomp should not be used, but TTar + Chomp needs serious Fairy support if you run it. Non-Mega Chompy is great imo, I usually run it LO but AV with Iron Head is pretty comical too. Brightpowder Sand Veil could also bring back some nightmares, ask anyone who played 4th Gen OU. lol.



Generally yes, but Garchomp is by no means bad at all in Doubles. Yes, Landog is far more popular, and yes, Landog does usually beat Chomp.
Garchomp does have a fair few resistances (Rock, Fire, neutral to Water) and there is a LOT of stuff between 91 and 102 Speed. So I'm not sure where "Better speed" comes from. Scarf sets Chomp can also do, but it doesn't literally depend on it to outrun anything faster than CB Arcanine. Dragon STAB is generally balls, I agree. LO Dual Chop is excellent against Gengar (OHKOs Sash / LO, good hit if it's mega), while Draco Meteor is funny against Mence, Hydreigon, and Landorus. I've also dropped Dragon STAB entirely for lulzy things like SD and Sub (which are fairly decent) since it's hardly used. Fairy / Dragon weaknesses hurt but Landog isn't much happier eating Hyper Voice or Hydra DMs.
Garchomp's secondary Dragon STABs (Dual Chop/Dragon Claw/Draco) are a lot better than Landog's secondary Flying STABs (...Fly? HP Flying?) too, j/s.
Anyway a lot of Garchomp's appeal is natural Speed and the fact that it does NOT have Intimidate, meaning it isn't an outright liability against Bisharp / Milotic. Superior speed and Rough Skin also keeps Khan in check pretty well, she can't tangle with Garchomp without grievous damage, if not outright killed. Intimidate she can dodge by coming in AFTER Landog, and even better if it lacks Superpower / is Scarfed into Rock Slide.
Garchomp has also been picking up steam with higher rated (1650+) Japanese players, along with some North Americans from what I've seen.
As for power, EQ/Rock Slide have the same OHKOs and 2HKOs across both of them. Not like heatran, Char-Y, Talonflame, Metagross, Mawile, etc. are taking them particularly well.
I guess Garchomp is a bit bulkier without Intimidate thrown in (special mons, bisharp, switch-in after Intimidate) but that's mostly moot imo.

tl;dr Chomp is a lot better than people consider when grabbing Landog without 20 seconds thought. Rarely is either one a bad choice though.
Thank you very much. I didn't even know about Japan Sand teams. I was familiar with region styles in fighting games, but knowing that it happens in Pokemon as well is kinda blowing my mind. While it is a little discouraging to know it would require a lot of effort and knowledge, it is very motivating to know that EVENTUALLY you could get good enough at team building to make things like that work.

You mentioned Mega-Chomp being bad though. When would I want to use it? While we're at it, when would I want to use Mega Tyranitar too? All the information that I've gathered has been that "they're good, they just require a lot of support."
 
Hi! Thanks for the quick reply!! I have a couple of questions :3 first of all, why isn't there a rain dance on the aromatisse? I mean, I am trying to up my water spout damage with blastoise so it seems kinda necessary... unless you were just showing me your own spread (I'm very new to Pokémon forums lol). A rain dance would also help Goodra but, to be honest, I've never played one, so imma take your word for it.

I've been going crazy about how to build aegislash because I only have one quiet shiny 5 IV 0 spd IV honedge and I really don't wanna waste him, so what's the ideal build for it on this team? And if it's the sub build, what would the spread and move set look like?

Also, maybe I should go for more water users if I'm using rain, and I gotta figure out how to build my second TR setter which would also be nice as a rain dancer too.

Pardon my ignorance but I have no idea what LO is lol.

Ferrothorn with a gyro ball and a grass STAB would be viable with this team right?
I don't really think Aromatisse should be RD and tr, but if you are gonna do that then the second tr setter definitely shouldn't have RD. Manual weather isn't very fun, and you could just run Politoed for auto rain. That does mean two plain water types though, might not work.

But if you want rain, I think Toed is more important than Blastoise. Spe is good for tr too. If you do replace Blastoise, a mega like Swampert or Manectric(Thunder) that benefits from rain would be good. Or just Kangaskhan ofc, Garde is also common on rain and could even set tr too...pretty sure she shouldn't though.

If you want tr and rain, then it's kinda hard to not use Amoongus since it likes both. Ferro could work, but with your set up so far it'd cause a lot of redundancy. Bit of a Talon weakneess, and also Ferro would not add coverage since Aegi has steel and Amoongus would have grass. Blastoise/ Aromatisse/ Aegi/ Amoongus/ Ferro/ Toed(?) looks quite troubled by Thund too. Not much to hit steels with besides rain boosted water. Char Y kinda ruins your day too.
 
Oh, my bad on Rain Dance LOL. Yeath that was a spread I had down in my notes from forever ago, I think it's the standard set in the Smogon dex (or very similar at least).
Moonblast / Trick Room / Rain Dance / Heal Pulse then I think is your set; all I'm suggesting is EVs :P

Quiet is 100% fine for Aegislash; preferred nature, in fact. Aegislash can effectively run a simple spread:

Aegislash @ Leftovers / Sitrus
Quiet, 252 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 Sp. Def
Ability: Stance Change

- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield
- Substitute
- Flash Cannon

Standard that Aegis has used since VGC14. Sub blocks Spore, Will-o-Wisp, and other bothers, while also generating a lot of pressure on your foe. Protects against critical hits, and if your foe is foolish enough to ignore it (or forced to, via Follow Me/Rage Powder) then Sub allows you to attack multiple times with no fear of being hit in its very frail Blade forme. King's Shield is non-negotiable on Aegis to swap from Blade -> Shield and help stall + gather Leftovers recovery.
Aegislash is a very rare case of a Doubles pokemon that gets more out of Leftovers than Sitrus in general, and Sitrus is best on your Aromatisse since its not running Rest.
Shadow Ball is STAB and great coverage; only resists are Dark types and Kangaskhan. Khan however is mere setup for Sub + Flash Cannon.
Flash Cannon bombs Fairies, Tyranitar, and hits Kangaskhan for acceptable damage.

TR + Rain on the second setter? Fair enough. Gothitelle can do this, as can Cresselia and Reuniclus, the ones I explained above. Psychic / Trick Room / Rain Dance / filler.
Good Water attackers in TR... Toed works, and is an automatic Rain Dance. Gastrodon is good, and that's all I have off the top of my head.
Oh whoops. LO is Life Orb.

Ferrothorn is very good in Trick Room, as is Amoonguss. Ferrothorn can ru Gyro Ball against fast threats, or you can run Iron Head for consistent damage and a flinch chance. Spreads for Ferrothorn have been complicated business ever since Gen 5, but the dex does have a few good ones. Amoonguss only ever runs one set, and that's up on site. Extremely "fast" Spore in Trick Room is the main appeal.

Rhyperior, Hariyama, Conkeldurr, Sylveon, and Escavalier are some other established TR Offense pokemon. You don't want too many Water mons on one team, even the most dedicated Rain teams only run 2 Waters to avoid being crushed by Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, Thundurus, etc.

Heyo!! Excellent tips right there. I deffo wanna include aegi and thus not ferrothorn but amoonguss instead. However I want my physical attacker to have at least one water move too. I mean the only one there with a water move is blastoise and it can't be a rain team with only one pokemon that benefits from rain lol.

I was thinking of including rhyperior because it's a great phys attacker, but the weakness to water while it's most likely raining is kinda scary.


At the moment, I'm thinking Blastoise, Aromatisse, Aegislash, Amoonguss, and maybe Rhyperior, but I still need a 2nd TR setter. Since most TR setters are more special-orientated, and thus will have a special attack and not a physical one, I was thinking that maybe Aegislash should have a physical attack build and not a special one, simply because I don't want Rhyperior or whoever i decide to put in to be the only physical pokemon there D: what do you think? Again I have no idea which poke to choose as a second TR setter :') and my lack of water types could potentially be solved by teaching rhyperior aqua tail but I'm not sure... what do you guys think?
 
Thank you very much. I didn't even know about Japan Sand teams. I was familiar with region styles in fighting games, but knowing that it happens in Pokemon as well is kinda blowing my mind. While it is a little discouraging to know it would require a lot of effort and knowledge, it is very motivating to know that EVENTUALLY you could get good enough at team building to make things like that work.

You mentioned Mega-Chomp being bad though. When would I want to use it? While we're at it, when would I want to use Mega Tyranitar too? All the information that I've gathered has been that "they're good, they just require a lot of support."
It was only ever named "Japan Sand" because the core was first popularized by the Japanese, a lot of people know it as "quick sand" (lol) too after it caught on in Europe/North America.
Mega Chomp is not "bad" per se; 170 Atk / 120 Sp. Atk with STAB + Sand Force boosted Earthquake / Earth Power is no laughing matter, especially with a strong boost to Rock Slide and Iron Head. Mega Chomp's only disadvantage is literally a -10 Speed drop from 102 as non-Mega to 92 as Mega and that's... 80% of what scares off most people honestly. There's the philosophical standpoint of "opportunity cost" as you could use regular Garchomp, which functions similarly and is very good on its own, in addition to another mega such as Kangaskhan. The team I posted is fairly odd, I agree, but it shows that Garchomp can viably run on a double Mega team.
Generally you want to use regular Chompy for the better Speed, Mega would only be used as a secondary (Mence/Garde and Khan to some extent render it a bad choice for primary mega imo) if you have only one dedicated Mega and some solid Speed support. Even then, LO Chomp is better imo, Mega needs Sand to really stand out.
Non-Mega Garchomp honestly functions pretty well by itself, only support it really needs is something to sponge Ice attacks and piss off Landog, which is filled by basically any Water mon. Scarf Hydra is a big problem for it as well, as is Gardevoir, but these are all standard threats every team has answers for without going out of its way.

Tyranitar is a veritable beast. Scarf is the common set, but Dragon Dance Mega TTar isn't absurd either and is extremely dangerous if you can buy it a turn with Fake Out / Rage Powder / Follow Me. I've seen Tailwind-supported Weakness Policy sets that you do not want to stomach, and TTar has no shortage of weaknesses backed by great bulk, good power, and amazing coverage. It can also run a Mixed or specially focused set; hits decently on a neutral hit but demolishes Landog, Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, and acts as a shock set to crush normal checks, but EVs are stretched thin so it has to sacrifice bulk and/or Speed.
If you want TTar as a main or secondary Mega that's perfectly fine, but it also has a few non-Mega options if you want to run it with Mence, Garde, etc. instead.

TTar needs support if it doesn't have Scarf / Dragon Dance up, as it is quite slow and has many weaknesses that will 1-2HKO despite great bulk. Amoonguss is generally the best for this as it redirects Fighting, Steel, and Water moves while not sharing any weaknesses. TTar helps by smashing Fire/Flying/Psychic for Amoonguss.

TTar + Chomp, regardless of which, if any, is Mega, needs heavy support against Fairy types and bulky Waters like Milotic that run Ice Beam. Again, Amoonguss helps here, but starts to stack up Ice weaknesses.

Heyo!! Excellent tips right there. I deffo wanna include aegi and thus not ferrothorn but amoonguss instead. However I want my physical attacker to have at least one water move too. I mean the only one there with a water move is blastoise and it can't be a rain team with only one pokemon that benefits from rain lol.

I was thinking of including rhyperior because it's a great phys attacker, but the weakness to water while it's most likely raining is kinda scary.


At the moment, I'm thinking Blastoise, Aromatisse, Aegislash, Amoonguss, and maybe Rhyperior, but I still need a 2nd TR setter. Since most TR setters are more special-orientated, and thus will have a special attack and not a physical one, I was thinking that maybe Aegislash should have a physical attack build and not a special one, simply because I don't want Rhyperior or whoever i decide to put in to be the only physical pokemon there D: what do you think? Again I have no idea which poke to choose as a second TR setter :') and my lack of water types could potentially be solved by teaching rhyperior aqua tail but I'm not sure... what do you guys think?
Aegis + Amoonguss I haven't tried but sounds fine; obvious fire problem but Rain + Mega Blastoise helps with that :P
I run a Drought team. Char-Y obviously sets and benefits, but after that a Chlorophyll Venusaur is the only thng that benefits in any way and even then it eats boosted Fire moves like Zapdos' Heat Wave.
It also occasionally runs Mega Venusaur with no sun at all, and my Swampert is actually hindered by Sun weakening its Water attacks.
Just because you have weather doesn't mean you need to abuse it to the max and depend on it; teams that depend on TR, Rain, Sun, etc. and cannot function without it get in nasty spots sometimes. Mine doesn't really give a fuck if its Sun, Rain, or Hail, it runs largely the same. In fact, Venusaur and Swampert BENEFIT in Rain, and Hail is rarely a problem with Charizard.

Toed like people mentioned is great, for auto-Rain and works acceptably in TR. If you run Goth as the second TR inducer you can also run PerishTrap as an option (or at least make your foe shit a brick over the mere threat in team preview).
Physical rain mons, main ones are Kabutops and Mega Swampy but those are horrible in TR. Only TR physical water mon I can think of is... Barbaracle, Feraligatr maybe? Both are kinda... bad.
Special heavy is fine, my teams usually have 2 physical mons at max lol. Intimidate is common, as is Will-o-Wisp; there are no abilites that auto-dampen Special attacks and Snarl is rare.
Rhyperior would be bad in Rain though yes.
Physical Aegis is ok, most run special (because Intimidate / WoW) but it does get Shadow Claw / Iron Head / Shadow Sneak and could do Swords Dance or Weakness Policy or something.
Escavalier benefits in Rain, and slaughters Tr mons like Cress that may use it to negate your setup, while also blasting Amoonguss and neutral hits with 135 Atk and Megahorn/Iron Head flinchspam. Rain reduces its Fire weakness too. I'd run Escavalier over physical Aegis. Pretty trash against Zapdos / Thundurus though.
 
Aegis + Amoonguss I haven't tried but sounds fine; obvious fire problem but Rain + Mega Blastoise helps with that :P
I run a Drought team. Char-Y obviously sets and benefits, but after that a Chlorophyll Venusaur is the only thng that benefits in any way and even then it eats boosted Fire moves like Zapdos' Heat Wave.
It also occasionally runs Mega Venusaur with no sun at all, and my Swampert is actually hindered by Sun weakening its Water attacks.
Just because you have weather doesn't mean you need to abuse it to the max and depend on it; teams that depend on TR, Rain, Sun, etc. and cannot function without it get in nasty spots sometimes. Mine doesn't really give a fuck if its Sun, Rain, or Hail, it runs largely the same. In fact, Venusaur and Swampert BENEFIT in Rain, and Hail is rarely a problem with Charizard.

Toed like people mentioned is great, for auto-Rain and works acceptably in TR. If you run Goth as the second TR inducer you can also run PerishTrap as an option (or at least make your foe shit a brick over the mere threat in team preview).
Physical rain mons, main ones are Kabutops and Mega Swampy but those are horrible in TR. Only TR physical water mon I can think of is... Barbaracle, Feraligatr maybe? Both are kinda... bad.
Special heavy is fine, my teams usually have 2 physical mons at max lol. Intimidate is common, as is Will-o-Wisp; there are no abilites that auto-dampen Special attacks and Snarl is rare.
Rhyperior would be bad in Rain though yes.
Physical Aegis is ok, most run special (because Intimidate / WoW) but it does get Shadow Claw / Iron Head / Shadow Sneak and could do Swords Dance or Weakness Policy or something.
Escavalier benefits in Rain, and slaughters Tr mons like Cress that may use it to negate your setup, while also blasting Amoonguss and neutral hits with 135 Atk and Megahorn/Iron Head flinchspam. Rain reduces its Fire weakness too. I'd run Escavalier over physical Aegis. Pretty trash against Zapdos / Thundurus though.
I absolutely adore how well you explain things! If special heavy is coolio, I'd deffo go with special Aegislash. Shadow Sneak is really appealing though... Oh well. Initially I was thinking of Rhyperior to pummel electric mons, but as we said, he's really fragile and weird in rain.

So.. yeah. Electricity is a bit of a problem.

Gotta figure out how to handle that, preferably with someone who has a rock type attack too, to kill off Thundurus since he's immune to ground type attacks.

And Escavalier seems really cool to play! (I hated the gen 5 games but jeez, they have some incredible mons)
The problem is the S E V E R E fire weakness... I mean aegi and amoonguss are already weak to fire :/ so I'd deffo not play him.

Goth is interesting because a psychic type would help... but Reuniclus seems much more viable as a setter, since it's bulky and has pretty good SpA.

So far we have:

Blastaroni Pepperoni -- Blastoise
Eau de Toilette -- Aromatisse
Ye olde Sword -- Aegislash (special)
Porcini -- Amoonguss
Jelly Baby -- Reuniclus

Rhyperior is kinda weak in this setup but his STABs are ideal, while Escavalier is way too weak to fire and I can't afford that. I need a physical mon that can counter thundurus and other electric pokemon.. And maybe grass types? Imma give Blastoise Ice beam though.
 
I absolutely adore how well you explain things! If special heavy is coolio, I'd deffo go with special Aegislash. Shadow Sneak is really appealing though... Oh well. Initially I was thinking of Rhyperior to pummel electric mons, but as we said, he's really fragile and weird in rain.

So.. yeah. Electricity is a bit of a problem.

Gotta figure out how to handle that, preferably with someone who has a rock type attack too, to kill off Thundurus since he's immune to ground type attacks.

And Escavalier seems really cool to play! (I hated the gen 5 games but jeez, they have some incredible mons)
The problem is the S E V E R E fire weakness... I mean aegi and amoonguss are already weak to fire :/ so I'd deffo not play him.

Goth is interesting because a psychic type would help... but Reuniclus seems much more viable as a setter, since it's bulky and has pretty good SpA.

So far we have:

Blastaroni Pepperoni -- Blastoise
Eau de Toilette -- Aromatisse
Ye olde Sword -- Aegislash (special)
Porcini -- Amoonguss
Jelly Baby -- Reuniclus

Rhyperior is kinda weak in this setup but his STABs are ideal, while Escavalier is way too weak to fire and I can't afford that. I need a physical mon that can counter thundurus and other electric pokemon.. And maybe grass types? Imma give Blastoise Ice beam though.
Oh it would be Escavalier OR Aegislash, not both. Aegis is better though :P

Conkeldurr or Scrafty is likely your best bet. Conk is very slow, pretty tough, and hits like a block of concrete to the face. Drain Punch keeps it obnoxiously hard to kill while Ice Punch bombs Thundurus and Zapdos, which are the primary Electrics of Doubles. Rock Slide / Stone Edge can also be used but Ice Punch is generally the best coverage and most reliable. Knock Off nails Cresselia, Gengar, Jellicent, and Aegislash. Fighting moves keep Ferrothorn off of you.
Scrafty is similar, trading a lot of damage output and status immunity for much better bulk, Fake Out, and a Ghost resist. Checks roughly the same list of Khan, Steels, Zapdos/Thundy, Ferrothorn.

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Brave, 20 HP, 244 Atk, 12 Def, 228 Sp. Def
Ability: Guts

- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off

Standard set.

Scrafty @ Sitrus Berry
Careful, 252 HP, 164 Atk, 92 Sp. Def
Ability: Intimidate

- Drain Punch
- Fake Out / Super Fang
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off

Standard set

Fake out helps setup, Scrafty + Goth is just brutal (I use the core myself) in general. Reuniclus + Conk is much more offensive and honestly sounds rather amusing, try it.
 

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^fighting type is a good call, but i'd go with conkeldurr (or maybe hariyama if you really want fake out) over scrafty because you're currently really, scarily weak to bisharp... blastoise and amoonguss are the only two things that don't have an atrocious matchup against it and both trick room setter lead very poorly against it. if you don't have aura sphere or scald on blastoise, then that can't damage it meaningfully either once water spout's been weakened. a fun and pretty niche pick you could look at is emboar - it's nice and slow, hits like a truck with reckless flare blitz and resists bisharp's stab combination. also, it has access to will-o-wisp, which give you a form of physical damage control that your team currently lacks (intimidate risks giving bisharp a boost which would probably end games then and there). emboar isn't amazing though so take that suggestion with a pinch of salt.

tl;dr fix bisharp problem ;_;
 
^fighting type is a good call, but i'd go with conkeldurr (or maybe hariyama if you really want fake out) over scrafty because you're currently really, scarily weak to bisharp... blastoise and amoonguss are the only two things that don't have an atrocious matchup against it and both trick room setter lead very poorly against it. if you don't have aura sphere or scald on blastoise, then that can't damage it meaningfully either once water spout's been weakened. a fun and pretty niche pick you could look at is emboar - it's nice and slow, hits like a truck with reckless flare blitz and resists bisharp's stab combination. also, it has access to will-o-wisp, which give you a form of physical damage control that your team currently lacks (intimidate risks giving bisharp a boost which would probably end games then and there). emboar isn't amazing though so take that suggestion with a pinch of salt.

tl;dr fix bisharp problem ;_;

Ayyy hi there! I still haven't actually made the blastoise yet, but I do have the perf squirtle and it does actually have aura sphere lol. I was just thinking that ice beam could've been more useful to it for Zapdos, Thundurus, and Grass-Types, since those are scaaaaaary. Emboar would actually completely fix the Bish problem, but man, I really don't know if it's actually a good enough mon all around. I could potentially go with Camerupt, maybe? This is all just speculation in case I don't go with Conkeldurr/Hariyama (I like fake out a lot).

The Conk/Hari-Reuniclus team seems pretty great so I might just go with that. Those bisharps are gonna dieeeeeee (hopefullyyyy)

Oh it would be Escavalier OR Aegislash, not both. Aegis is better though :P

Conkeldurr or Scrafty is likely your best bet. Conk is very slow, pretty tough, and hits like a block of concrete to the face. Drain Punch keeps it obnoxiously hard to kill while Ice Punch bombs Thundurus and Zapdos, which are the primary Electrics of Doubles. Rock Slide / Stone Edge can also be used but Ice Punch is generally the best coverage and most reliable. Knock Off nails Cresselia, Gengar, Jellicent, and Aegislash. Fighting moves keep Ferrothorn off of you.
Scrafty is similar, trading a lot of damage output and status immunity for much better bulk, Fake Out, and a Ghost resist. Checks roughly the same list of Khan, Steels, Zapdos/Thundy, Ferrothorn.

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Brave, 20 HP, 244 Atk, 12 Def, 228 Sp. Def
Ability: Guts

- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off

Standard set.

Scrafty @ Sitrus Berry
Careful, 252 HP, 164 Atk, 92 Sp. Def
Ability: Intimidate

- Drain Punch
- Fake Out / Super Fang
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off

Standard set

Fake out helps setup, Scrafty + Goth is just brutal (I use the core myself) in general. Reuniclus + Conk is much more offensive and honestly sounds rather amusing, try it.

Yeah to be honest, I like Aegi more! And I deffo want to try Reuniclus with either Conky or Hariyama! Thanks for the spreads, you're a saint!
 
So, I thought I'd dip my toe into the ORAS Battle Spot Singles meta before Sun and Moon picks up. Having looked at my breeding projects so far, I picked these 5 pokemon to get me started. However, I'm not sure what should go in the sixth slot. Any help picking a sixth pokemon? I'm also open to changing sets if someone sees a problem, and given time I can switch some of these guys out to build a more cohesive team, so any advice there is welcome as well.

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore
- Rock Tomb

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Roost
- Iron Head
- Whirlwind

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Blast

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Taunt
- Focus Blast

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot

Other Pokemon I have battle-ready (If any of them seem like a solid choice to round out the team): Talonflame, Scizor, Azumarill, and Blaziken.
 
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Ayyy hi there! I still haven't actually made the blastoise yet, but I do have the perf squirtle and it does actually have aura sphere lol. I was just thinking that ice beam could've been more useful to it for Zapdos, Thundurus, and Grass-Types, since those are scaaaaaary. Emboar would actually completely fix the Bish problem, but man, I really don't know if it's actually a good enough mon all around. I could potentially go with Camerupt, maybe? This is all just speculation in case I don't go with Conkeldurr/Hariyama (I like fake out a lot).
Fake Out/ WS/ Ice beam/ protect seems to really waste Mega Blastoise's biggest draw in Mega Launcher, which allows for a really strong Aura Sphere in particular. Dragon Pulse still sucks and I'm not sure about Water or Dark Pulse in BSD. But using a mega and not taking advaqntage of the ability seems like a HUGE waste. I mean WS is still nice, but if that's gonna be the whole draw, pretty much, why not save your mega slot and run Octillery, Jellicent, etc.

Even taking advantage of ML though, I think you should be sure you want Blastoise, not Clawitzer. Claw is quite a bit less bulk, 71/88/89 to 79/120/115, but not quite frail, esp. w/o having to worry on Spe. 15 less SpA, but not so bad. Lower Spe isn't really bad for your purposes either. Claw lacks FO ofc, but it has Helping Hand which is really neat, and also some other fun options like Heal Pulse, Entrainment, U-Turn, and even Sludge Wave(no reason for that with Flash Cannon, but nvm.)

So yea, that might be a better choice. I'd say HH is actually the main thing, as a good thing to use when Claw is about to be out/undersped in tr and die. Blastoise has a fairly strong Aqua Jet for this situation, but not much room.
 
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Good thing I bred a squirtle with aura sphere then lol. My whole thing was based around wanting to use blastoise in competitive and trick room at the same time, plus fake out is the thing that makes everything much smoother here, so I'm pretty sure I'm gonna keep that, along with a fully powered, rain-boosted, STAB WS, and I'll just see how it goes from there. Thanks for your advice though!

Now my final decision is whether to choose Hariyama or Conkeldurr
 

ethan06

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is a Community Contributor Alumnus
go with hariyama. literally its only draw over conk is fake out (and close combat), and you already have a fake out user, but i feel like having two fake out users gives your team more flexibility to do things like fire off attacks and set up trick room when you need it.
 
go with hariyama. literally its only draw over conk is fake out (and close combat), and you already have a fake out user, but i feel like having two fake out users gives your team more flexibility to do things like fire off attacks and set up trick room when you need it.
Gotcha dude! Thanks! Now I just gotta start breeding excessive quantities of Makuhita and get a good spread (maybe I'll use the smogon battle spot doubles trick room spread... hmm)
 
So, I thought I'd dip my toe into the ORAS Battle Spot Singles meta before Sun and Moon picks up. Having looked at my breeding projects so far, I picked these 5 pokemon to get me started. However, I'm not sure what should go in the sixth slot. Any help picking a sixth pokemon? I'm also open to changing sets if someone sees a problem, and given time I can switch some of these guys out to build a more cohesive team, so any advice there is welcome as well.

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore
- Rock Tomb

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Roost
- Iron Head
- Whirlwind

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Blast

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Taunt
- Focus Blast

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot

Other Pokemon I have battle-ready (If any of them seem like a solid choice to round out the team): Talonflame, Scizor, Azumarill, and Blaziken.
Helmet Chomp isn't very good. It's viable, but the best items are Scarf, CB, Lum, and sash, not necessarily that order. ORAS stats are gone, but I'd wager Helmet goes better on Skarmory.

Either way, with Whirlwind on Skarmory I think Chomp should have Stealth Rock. Pretty sure 4 SpD>4 HP on Chomp, but that's minor.

I feel like Psychic is better on this Mega Garde. Psyshock won't do too much to Suicune, and you can just stop the CMs with Taunt anyways. Hyper Voice kills AV Conk, so Psyshock isn't really important there. Venusaur s only 2hkod by both moves, but Psychic does more. Your team is a bit Venu weak, so the more you can do the better.

Anyways, can't think of what Psyshock would really be good for. Even Chansey is only 3hkod.

Greninja typically prefers Scald to Hydro Pump, 30 BP for 100 acc and a 30% burn chance. Unless you know some specific ohkos that are important that HP gets I'd run Scald.

You seem weak-ish to Talonflame. Garchomp ohkos w/ Outrage after BB recoil, but there are many bulky WoW ones. Those would be really tough for you, might wanna use Lum on Chomp.

When you have a Talon weakness you're usually bad vs. Char Y too, and that shows here. Chomp dies to HP Ice, and nothing else handles it 1v1, except Breloom, but ofc only with Sash intact. Stealth Rock would help, if you get it up before Char switches in. Then Greninja can kill it. I wonder if Rock Slide could work on Greninja, also helps you with Talon.

With those weaknesses, Talonflame sounds good. One of the mons you have so that's easier. Pretty much always Ohkos Zard Y, beats Venu, helps w/ Gengar and Blaziken which are kinda bad, and at least doesn't hurt you against mirrors. I don''t think Rotom forms are too bad, but kinda makes you weak to Thund. Also helps with Aegi, which only kinda fears Gren and Chomp.
 
I've never played doubles before, though I've watched people play. After making this team, I had a pretty even 50/50 win/lose ratio on showdown, but I do like it and would like tips to improve it.
Thanks to my lack of experience and knowledge (aside from extensive research in how to start building a team), my goals are pretty vague and I wouldn't mind switching some team members out.
But the two that are staying are both Mega-Gardevoir and Mega-Gallade. For the most part, I switch between using either a team of [Gardevoir, Ninetails, Milotic, and Gliscor], or [Gallade, Tyrannitar, Milotic, and Gliscor], with Milotic and Gliscor being the versatile balance. The two mean something important to me, hence my inclusion, so I guess I just want to capitalize on their strengths without being too predictable.

You'll probably notice a lot of copied movesets and stats and such based on smogon's own suggestions, and I've mostly just glanced at the Japanese BattleSpot stats of each one to gather their strengths and weaknesses in the general metagame, so I'm guessing there is a lot of work to be made. I'll try to give my intents on choices that aren't copied directly from Smogon.

Gardevoir (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 HP / 124 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Protect

[Pretty straight-forward. I've never used her before and I realized after watching things like the VGC how useful her popular set is, regardless of commonality, so I didn't make too many modifications. Hyper Voice staple, Psyshock to hit SpDef walls/opponents, Focus Blast to give me somewhat of an advantage over Steel types, and Protect.]

Gallade @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Protect

[Again, straight-forward. Close Combat staple, Zen Headbutt staple, Ice Punch to help take out Earthquake threats like Landorus, and Protect.]

Ninetales @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Protect

[Overheat and Drought helps, especially since Ninetails' Drought can sometimes lift an opponent's Rain. Will-O-Wisp for burn, Hex for Ghost and Psychic coverage, and Protect.]

Tyranitar @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 244 Atk / 60 Def
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Protect

[Gallade team lead-in alongside Gliscor for most matches. Rock Slide is good against flying types and especially for Charizard and Talonflame. Crunch is a good STAB dark move. A well-timed Pursuit has already been my ally in every match where it would've been relevant. And Protect.]

Milotic @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 140 Def / 132 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Icy Wind
- Mirror Coat

[Scald is great for burning. Ice Beam for good measure against Landorus. Icy Wind is great for speed dropping the opponent or making them want to switch. Mirror Coat hasn't been as useful as I'd have liked it to be thus far, but it's played its part, too.]

Gliscor @ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 50
EVs: 228 HP / 68 Def / 212 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Fang
- Protect

[Yache Berry has saved this guy's butt too many times to count, so unless there's something better, I like it. Earthquake is a doubles staple. Stealth Rock is a good setup move and one of the reasons I like to lead with Gliscor. Fire Fang helps hit steel and bug types that I've noticed were popular. And Protect.]

I feel like I had a lot of great ideas, but in practice, while they sometimes work, they do level out pretty even when it comes to getting the advantage in a match. I plan to practice more so I have even more of an idea of what's useful vs. what's not, but as many battles as I've had, I don't really know what I'm looking for exactly.

Again, Mega-Gardevoir and Mega-Gallade are the two I'm not budging on, but everything else, including those two's moveset and such, is free for modification. There are a few Pokemon I'd like to avoid in general (useful or not) since I've technically made them on one or two teams before: Lucario, Charizard, Arcanine, Dragonite, Hydreigon (yes, I had a Dragon mono-team).

Thank you in advance!
 
I've never played doubles before, though I've watched people play. After making this team, I had a pretty even 50/50 win/lose ratio on showdown, but I do like it and would like tips to improve it.
Thanks to my lack of experience and knowledge (aside from extensive research in how to start building a team), my goals are pretty vague and I wouldn't mind switching some team members out.
But the two that are staying are both Mega-Gardevoir and Mega-Gallade. For the most part, I switch between using either a team of [Gardevoir, Ninetails, Milotic, and Gliscor], or [Gallade, Tyrannitar, Milotic, and Gliscor], with Milotic and Gliscor being the versatile balance. The two mean something important to me, hence my inclusion, so I guess I just want to capitalize on their strengths without being too predictable.

You'll probably notice a lot of copied movesets and stats and such based on smogon's own suggestions, and I've mostly just glanced at the Japanese BattleSpot stats of each one to gather their strengths and weaknesses in the general metagame, so I'm guessing there is a lot of work to be made. I'll try to give my intents on choices that aren't copied directly from Smogon.

Gardevoir (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 HP / 124 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Protect

[Pretty straight-forward. I've never used her before and I realized after watching things like the VGC how useful her popular set is, regardless of commonality, so I didn't make too many modifications. Hyper Voice staple, Psyshock to hit SpDef walls/opponents, Focus Blast to give me somewhat of an advantage over Steel types, and Protect.]

Gallade @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Protect

[Again, straight-forward. Close Combat staple, Zen Headbutt staple, Ice Punch to help take out Earthquake threats like Landorus, and Protect.]

Ninetales @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Protect

[Overheat and Drought helps, especially since Ninetails' Drought can sometimes lift an opponent's Rain. Will-O-Wisp for burn, Hex for Ghost and Psychic coverage, and Protect.]

Tyranitar @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 244 Atk / 60 Def
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Protect

[Gallade team lead-in alongside Gliscor for most matches. Rock Slide is good against flying types and especially for Charizard and Talonflame. Crunch is a good STAB dark move. A well-timed Pursuit has already been my ally in every match where it would've been relevant. And Protect.]

Milotic @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 140 Def / 132 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Icy Wind
- Mirror Coat

[Scald is great for burning. Ice Beam for good measure against Landorus. Icy Wind is great for speed dropping the opponent or making them want to switch. Mirror Coat hasn't been as useful as I'd have liked it to be thus far, but it's played its part, too.]

Gliscor @ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 50
EVs: 228 HP / 68 Def / 212 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Fang
- Protect

[Yache Berry has saved this guy's butt too many times to count, so unless there's something better, I like it. Earthquake is a doubles staple. Stealth Rock is a good setup move and one of the reasons I like to lead with Gliscor. Fire Fang helps hit steel and bug types that I've noticed were popular. And Protect.]

I feel like I had a lot of great ideas, but in practice, while they sometimes work, they do level out pretty even when it comes to getting the advantage in a match. I plan to practice more so I have even more of an idea of what's useful vs. what's not, but as many battles as I've had, I don't really know what I'm looking for exactly.

Again, Mega-Gardevoir and Mega-Gallade are the two I'm not budging on, but everything else, including those two's moveset and such, is free for modification. There are a few Pokemon I'd like to avoid in general (useful or not) since I've technically made them on one or two teams before: Lucario, Charizard, Arcanine, Dragonite, Hydreigon (yes, I had a Dragon mono-team).

Thank you in advance!
Gardevoir and Gallade seems very redundant, I would not recommend that at all.

Why Ninetails? It's not very good, and nothing else really likes sun being up. Except the two water weaks, but TTar ofc changes the weathr and Gliscor prefers sand anyways.

If you really want Ninetails, you'll want to tweak the ev spread some. Doubles is complicated for those, but I'm positive some HP rather than just 252 Def would be good. Hex is not good on Ninetails, and you have no other mon to reliably spread status. Idk what ghosts you're trying to get w/ it Overheat wouldn't. Guess you have a Chandelure problem(Mildly maybe,) except that can't be burned, so...Also, Cresselia is only being 3hkod by statused Hex, and Moonlight in sun will keep her regular. Solarbeam would be good to use.

TTar is a good mon, but you'd be better off running it with more standard mons for a sand team. Mence, Excadrill, and Amoongus are the main ones. Either way, I doubt the utility of helmet. Scarf is better, and so many moves in Doubles are non-contact, while the main Helmet target, Kang, isn't too bad, thanks to Gallade. Would be an even better match up w/ Landog>Gliscor, which I think you should change. Also, if you were to keep the current set, it should be Adamant and more def investment to capitalize on base stats.
(ex., impish 244 Atk/ 60 Def TTar has 185 Atk and 151 Def. Adamant 120 Atk/ 180 Def TTar- keeping same HP for simplicity- has the same Atk and153 Def.)

Milotic looks fine, I just wonder if AV is really necesary. All your mons bar Gliscor favor SpD anyways.

Lastly Gliscor. Outclassed, and if you were to use it it'd make more sense to take advantage of Poison Heal..and a Toxic Orb. There's no point to the current set over Landog. Also, SR isn't that good in dubz, so I'd change it.

tl;dr
Gardevoir or Gallade
Ditch Ninetails and Gliscor for Mence and Exca. Maybe Amoongus over Garde/Gall Alternatively get rid of Nine, Milotic, and TTar, and use Charizard Y. Better sun setter and great mega.
Landog>Gliscor, unless you're going for sand(I mean it's still probably better, but you wouldn't be using either due to all the type redundancy with TTar and Exca.)
 
Gardevoir and Gallade seems very redundant, I would not recommend that at all.

Why Ninetails? It's not very good, and nothing else really likes sun being up. Except the two water weaks, but TTar ofc changes the weathr and Gliscor prefers sand anyways.

If you really want Ninetails, you'll want to tweak the ev spread some. Doubles is complicated for those, but I'm positive some HP rather than just 252 Def would be good. Hex is not good on Ninetails, and you have no other mon to reliably spread status. Idk what ghosts you're trying to get w/ it Overheat wouldn't. Guess you have a Chandelure problem(Mildly maybe,) except that can't be burned, so...Also, Cresselia is only being 3hkod by statused Hex, and Moonlight in sun will keep her regular. Solarbeam would be good to use.

TTar is a good mon, but you'd be better off running it with more standard mons for a sand team. Mence, Excadrill, and Amoongus are the main ones. Either way, I doubt the utility of helmet. Scarf is better, and so many moves in Doubles are non-contact, while the main Helmet target, Kang, isn't too bad, thanks to Gallade. Would be an even better match up w/ Landog>Gliscor, which I think you should change. Also, if you were to keep the current set, it should be Adamant and more def investment to capitalize on base stats.
(ex., impish 244 Atk/ 60 Def TTar has 185 Atk and 151 Def. Adamant 120 Atk/ 180 Def TTar- keeping same HP for simplicity- has the same Atk and153 Def.)

Milotic looks fine, I just wonder if AV is really necesary. All your mons bar Gliscor favor SpD anyways.

Lastly Gliscor. Outclassed, and if you were to use it it'd make more sense to take advantage of Poison Heal..and a Toxic Orb. There's no point to the current set over Landog. Also, SR isn't that good in dubz, so I'd change it.

tl;dr
Gardevoir or Gallade
Ditch Ninetails and Gliscor for Mence and Exca. Maybe Amoongus over Garde/Gall Alternatively get rid of Nine, Milotic, and TTar, and use Charizard Y. Better sun setter and great mega.
Landog>Gliscor, unless you're going for sand(I mean it's still probably better, but you wouldn't be using either due to all the type redundancy with TTar and Exca.)

First of all, thank you for the support and critique!

As for Gardevoir and Gallade, I do get it's redundant, so I'm not going to argue against that, but I'm going to go against logic for this one single aspect for my own personal reasons. For the most part, I was looking for two Pokemon that would be good at supporting both Mega Gardevoir and Mega Gallade, and then one Pokemon good for Gardevoir and one for Gallade. I can switch that up, but I'll rarely have Gallade and Gardevoir in my 4-member team at once. The focus of my team is Mega Gardevoir and Mega Gallade, so I'm mostly looking for 4 non-Mega, non-Legend supports. I don't think I can do legends or mythicals because this is actually going to turn into an in-game team and I don't have an event Landorus to soft-reset for (nor do I believe anyone would be willing to trade for a legitimate 5-6 IV one). Otherwise, I'm perfectly okay with any other in-game-plausible suggestions.

That said, would turning this into a sand team somewhat hurt my focus a bit? Or is it fine to work in a non-Mega Salamence, Tyranitar, Excadrill, or Amoongus as a major support? Or should I discard them for something more effective? And I was getting the idea that Ninetails isn't as well-placed in this kind of team. I'm looking for good Fire coverage against Steel and to resist other Fairies. Is there something that might be effective to cover Gardevoir or Gallade with its Psychic/Fighting better?

I know Landorus is a better Gliscor, but again, I don't think I can get it.

Options for my team seem vast, and yet, so difficult to find...
 
Hi,

This is the first team that I build from scratch. I'm kinda new to the competitive battling scene so please pardon me if I missed some obvious stuff etc.
Really need input from all of you to complete this. This is mainly a Single Battlespot team.

The team:

team1.JPG

team2.JPG


LIU KANG (Breloom) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Tomb

BRAVE BIRD (Talonflame) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Swords Dance

JAWS (Garchomp) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Toxic
- Rock Tomb

KEMBANG KOL (Tyranitar) (M) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Roar

TEN SHIN HAN (Gengar) (M) @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Sludge Bomb

YO MAN (Lucario) (M) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
Basically, what I do is I divide the roles into 3:

Leaders :
Breloom and Tyranitar goes here. Breloom has the cookie cutter lead build and Tyranitar play the more supportive role with thunder wave and roar.
I'm pretty much content with this. Those two pokemon are my favorite pokemon from past generations so they're the two pokemon that I start my teambuilding from.

"Midfielders" :
Garchomp and M-Gengar. For denting the enemy team as much as possible before the sweeper's out, with destiny bond in gengar and the rough skin+rocky helmet in garchomp.
I'm relatively content with this also, really open to suggestions though.

Sweepers :
Talonflame and M-Lucario. Priority moves etc.
This is the spot that I'm not really content with at the moment. I dunno how effective they are, as I'm still often find the case that if I win, it stop only in the Breloom/TTar or Garchomp/Gengar hands; rarely the sweeper save the day.

Again, I'm really open to (and really want to have) any suggestions, either for the team building and for the playing mindset, as like I said before, I'm really new to this and the amount of information to be chewed in this competitive scene is really huge.

Cheers
 
Hello satetsu, and welcome :]

At first glance i would change TTar's item, from Smooth Rock to something like Sitrus Berry or Lum Berry. Since you don't really have a "sand" pokemon and 8 turns are too much, even because those extra turns could easily cripple Breloom's Focus Sash.

Going a little bit deeper,
the first thing that i think when i see Mega Lucario and Mega Gengar togheter is adding Dragonite or Azumarill, or even both togheter, since they synergyze pretty well with those mega. You could add them over Garchomp and Talonflame respectively.
Garchomp and Talonflame still works fine, but in your team i personally would change your offensive tflame, in a bulky SpD Tflame, with a Taunt/WoW/Roost/Brave bird set, since Lucario is frail and Will-O-Wisp support could help, and it's also not able to handle mons such as Cresselia, while SpD Talonflame can, covering also Lucario's fight/ground weakness. Speaking fairly i would even change Chomp's item with something like Choice Band, Choice Scarf or Yache Berry, putting Poison Jab over Toxic for the first two items and Sword Dance for the Yache one. Even if Rocky Helmet still works fine.

This is an example of SpD Tflame:
Talonflame @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 252 SpD / 52 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Taunt

while the Chomp sets would work fine with a 252atk/252speed jolly spread.

Rotom-W could also be a good pokemon for your team. I would add it over Breloom, so you would still be able to handle Water-types (and have Fighting coverage with Lucario) while also gaining a handy defensive coverage over Fire, Ground, and Water (vs whom you seem pretty weak, even with Breloom).
Rotom-W/Garchomp/Mega Lucario make a pretty solid core.

If you want to go with Dnite over Garchomp or Azumarill over Talonflame, this is are example sets:

Dragonite @ Choice Band / Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance [just if Lum] / Fire Punch / Thunder Punch [if Banded]
- Extreme Speed / Fire Punch / Roost [just if Lum]

Azumarill @ Assault Vest / Choice Band / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off / Belly Drum [if Sitrus]
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Waterfall

So imo you could either go with

Mega Lucario/Dnite/Azumarill/Mega Gengar/TTar/Breloom
or
Mega Lucario/Garchomp/Rotom-W/Mega Gengar/Dnite or Talonflame/TTar.

> In the end you could also consider switching TTar out, since its Fighting and Ground weakness are a bit redundant with Mega Lucario's.

This are some other mons that could help your team: Landorus-T, Greninja, Rotom-H, Thundurus, Zapdos, Mamoswine.
 
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Hello satetsu, and welcome :]

At first glance i would change TTar's item, from Smooth Rock to something like Sitrus Berry or Lum Berry. Since you don't really have a "sand" pokemon and 8 turns are too much, even because those extra turns could easily cripple Breloom's Focus Sash.

Going a little bit deeper,
the first thing that i think when i see Mega Lucario and Mega Gengar togheter is adding Dragonite or Azumarill, or even both togheter, since they synergyze pretty well with those mega. You could add them over Garchomp and Talonflame respectively.
Garchomp and Talonflame still works fine, but in your team i personally would change your offensive tflame, in a bulky SpD Tflame, with a Taunt/WoW/Roost/Brave bird set, since Lucario is frail and Will-O-Wisp support could help, and it's also not able to handle mons such as Cresselia, while SpD Talonflame can, covering also Lucario's fight/ground weakness. Speaking fairly i would even change Chomp's item with something like Choice Band, Choice Scarf or Yache Berry, putting Poison Jab over Toxic for the first two items and Sword Dance for the Yache one. Even if Rocky Helmet still works fine.

This is an example of SpD Tflame:
Talonflame @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 252 SpD / 52 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Taunt

while the Chomp sets would work fine with a 252atk/252speed jolly spread.

Rotom-W could also be a good pokemon for your team. I would add it over Breloom, so you would still be able to handle Water-types (and have Fighting coverage with Lucario) while also gaining a handy defensive coverage over Fire, Ground, and Water (vs whom you seem pretty weak, even with Breloom).
Rotom-W/Garchomp/Mega Lucario make a pretty solid core.

If you want to go with Dnite over Garchomp or Azumarill over Talonflame, this is are example sets:

Dragonite @ Choice Band / Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance [just if Lum] / Fire Punch / Thunder Punch [if Banded]
- Extreme Speed / Fire Punch / Roost [just if Lum]

Azumarill @ Assault Vest / Choice Band / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off / Belly Drum [if Sitrus]
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Waterfall

So imo you could either go with

Mega Lucario/Dnite/Azumarill/Mega Gengar/TTar/Breloom
or
Mega Lucario/Garchomp/Rotom-W/Mega Gengar/Dnite or Talonflame/TTar.

> In the end you could also consider switching TTar out, since its Fighting and Ground weakness are a bit redundant with Mega Lucario's.

This are some other mons that could help your team: Landorus-T, Greninja, Rotom-H, Thundurus, Zapdos, Mamoswine.
Thanks!

I've tried your suggestions in showdown. Adding Dragonite and Azumarill really did round up the team beautifully!
Also, indeed the sitrus berry on Tyranitar works better than the smooth rock.

Some more questions:
  • If I were to keep both Breloom and Tyranitar on my team (e.g. everyone else is replaceable); what do you think would make the best team out of it? (adding Excadrill maybe?)
  • On the other way around, you mentioned that I can switch Breloom for Rotom-W and switching out Tyranitar as it's weakness are redundant with Lucario. Which pokemon do you think is best to replace it? e.g. making the new team => Mega Lucario/Garchomp/Rotom-W/Mega Gengar/Dnite/????

Again, thanks for the really helpful insight!
 
You're welcome :]

I'll start from your second question: a good add for your team if switching TTar is definitely Hippowdon, so i'm going to "rework" a little bit what i said and suggest this sixstet: Mega Lucario/Dnite/Azumarill/Mega Gengar/Hippowdon/Breloom.
Chomp and Dnite are kind of redundant, so i'd just use one of them, and Dnite covers better Lucario's weak spots. Then, since you are using Dnite as your Lucario backup, Azumarill as the water type, and Hippowdown that can handle offensive versions of Tflame, I'd keep Breloom, that now can fit the team.
The reason why i've suggested Hippo is because its typing works better than TTar's with Lucario, and it can support either your mega or Dnite with Yawn and Stealth Rock, doing some good chip damage or just fishing for switch out to gain momentum. (Oh and even because the Hippo/Lucario/Dnite is a very notorious and successful japanese core :D)

If instead you want to keep both, TTar and Breloom, i'd definitely try to add a sand pokemon, like Excadrill, yes. So a good sixstet could be this one: TTar/Breloom/Exacdrill/Talonflame/Mega Gengar/Water-type (Suicune or Swampert can both work, but i'd see Cune fitting your team better) or even TTar/Breloom/Excadrill/Mega Salamence/Rotom-Wash or Heat/Mega Gengar or Water-type, since Mega Salamence works pretty fine with the Sand, and makes a fantastic core with TTar and Excadrill.
 
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First of all, thank you for the support and critique!

As for Gardevoir and Gallade, I do get it's redundant, so I'm not going to argue against that, but I'm going to go against logic for this one single aspect for my own personal reasons. For the most part, I was looking for two Pokemon that would be good at supporting both Mega Gardevoir and Mega Gallade, and then one Pokemon good for Gardevoir and one for Gallade. I can switch that up, but I'll rarely have Gallade and Gardevoir in my 4-member team at once. The focus of my team is Mega Gardevoir and Mega Gallade, so I'm mostly looking for 4 non-Mega, non-Legend supports. I don't think I can do legends or mythicals because this is actually going to turn into an in-game team and I don't have an event Landorus to soft-reset for (nor do I believe anyone would be willing to trade for a legitimate 5-6 IV one). Otherwise, I'm perfectly okay with any other in-game-plausible suggestions.

That said, would turning this into a sand team somewhat hurt my focus a bit? Or is it fine to work in a non-Mega Salamence, Tyranitar, Excadrill, or Amoongus as a major support? Or should I discard them for something more effective? And I was getting the idea that Ninetails isn't as well-placed in this kind of team. I'm looking for good Fire coverage against Steel and to resist other Fairies. Is there something that might be effective to cover Gardevoir or Gallade with its Psychic/Fighting better?

I know Landorus is a better Gliscor, but again, I don't think I can get it.

Options for my team seem vast, and yet, so difficult to find...
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ubers-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-ivs.3567141/ This giveaway has a perfect Adamant Landorus, so you can get it.

Landog I think you want Scarf-obviously I'm thinking to ditch TTar. Landog is great but not so much for sand. AV can work too.

You can never really go wrong with Thundurus, and double genie is perfectly good despite compounding an ice weakness. Priority T-Wave gives you some much needed Spe control too.

Gardevoir I think Focus Miss should go. You already have a strong fighting move, and standard Kang is fairly likely to live an attack from full-partially due to the 70 acc. Also Garde can lose the Spe tie and die. Heatran isn't too important yet-Landog and Gallade beat it, and Thund is at least ok. She has a giant movepool so you can find a better option.

Icy Wind is great but the low damage doesn't really play to her strengths-probably would make sense to use a different mon with that and have another move. WoW is pretty great, same issue though since it makes more sense on a bulkier mon. Helping Hand is pretty great since the priority means Garde can use it before bing outsped and killed. You have an Aegi problem, though there is little Garde can do there anyways. Could just have Destiny Bond to help with it, though ideally you'll have done something before trading for Aegi, since your Mega for somethng besides their mega is usually not a good trade. Encore or Imprison could be funny, you might be able to utilize Psych Up in conjunction with a set up mon, but Idk what.

I think Heatran would be good, though you obviously can't EQ it. But it can take down Aegi, maybe even switch in, and 4x resists ice and fairy. Another one of the better mons in dubz. You already have your gimmick, so just stick to goodstuffs;)

After that I think sand is a bit of an issue. Common mons with that are TTar, Mence, Exca. I don't think Amoongus is too bad for you. Mence ohkos both your megas with DE-75% for Garde with just 44 Atk and a neutral nature. Gallade has a good chance to die to a heavily invested Hyper Voice. Heatran fears EQ and the odd Hydro Pump, but not too bad. Dies hard to Exca though, ofc. Thund does good vs Mence, but fears Exca and TTar. Landog is your best, beating all of them. Except Amoongus, and TTar sometimes has an ice move.

So that's not too bad, but it's enough the 6th mon shouldn't be weak to sand, in particular being ohkod by Mence or Exca. You only have one mon that can comfortably take an EQ from Landog, so the last mon should be someting a bit bulkier and not ground weak. Hmm, maybe Suicune. Beats the sand, can take an EQ fairly well, and could provide extra Spe control. Rotom-W has Volt Switch which is nice because of Perish Trap Gengar, both your megas ofc hate Gengar so that's a good mon to watch out for.
 

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