Other Metagames [Balanced Hackmons] Manectric's Pre-Primaldon-Ban Squad

Do you like this team?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 47.4%
  • Neutral

    Votes: 7 36.8%
  • No

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • Total voters
    19
Foreword

Well, Primal Groudon has been banned. Good riddance, I say. While it was fun to use, and coming up with new Primal Don sets was always interesting since it seemed to be able to do near literally anything effectively, it was practically a third to half of the meta itself.

Of course, I'm guilty of using it too, hence why this RMT exists.

Anyway, this team initially came out not because of Groudon, but because of Mega-Manectric. Starting in Gen VI, I theorized that it could be a pretty decent Pokemon if we could just find the right set. Had we still the permanent weather off Gen V, it could have worked as a nice Thunder spammer in the Rain. But alas, we didn't. So, cue me trying Refrigerate, Sheer Force, and even a Technician Parabolic Charge set. Neat stuff, reasonably effective, but largely outclassed. Manectric's STAB options were just too weak or too inaccurate.

...also Protean Mewtwo-Y was a thing, but let's forget that existed.

Cue Gen VII and the release of Galvanize and Electric Surge! Finally, hope for our... uhh... whatever-animal-Manectric-is-supposed-to-be-based-off-of! (A big cat? A wolf? WHAT ARE YOU!?) Of course, it faced direct competition in Xurkitree but, with Manectric's much higher speed, there was still hope. So, I went to work, figuring out how to differentiate it from Xurkitree and, eventually, I discovered Manectric pressured offensive teams far better than Xurki ever could and it could also run offensive support/disruption sets nicely. This team started with the latter idea, but the Manectric set I used changed due other teammates not playing well with the disruption set.

Here's where Primal Groudon comes in. Theorizing that Manectric would work best supporting teammates that could capitalize on its Electric-STAB, I grabbed both Groudon and Kyurem and set to work...



Team Building



Manectric is the "star" of the team. I put quotes because its usually not the dominant threat to the opponent unless they're team is seriously weak to Electric (which, with how underrated Electric-types were, happened more often than it should), but rather it is the Pokemon I built my team around.
I determined that Mane might be best at removing stuff that some other offensive Pokemon struggled with. So, after some thought, Kyu-B and Primaldon were the immediate obvious choices, having trouble with the likes of Primal Ogre while also threatening Pokemon Mane doesn't like.



Walling my Pokemon for Imposter-purposes and their checks was paramount, so Megabro was brought onto the scene since it easily checked Groudon and Kyu-B and also stopping Manectric with Soundproof. It also promised to be a good wall, albeit a bit lopsided on the bulk.



Chansey was added then as an all purpose sort of check to my team and as well to the majority of the meta threats. Not Imposter, but Fur Coat. Its quite hard to break without Fighting coverage, and sometimes even then, and it's just a solid wall all around. It's really hard to wrong with Fur Coat Chansey. Seriously, try it if you never ran it before.



Another check to Manectric and also, with Pranskter, acted as a general check to out of control offensive threats. Prankster Venusaur was quite popular in X/Y, so I thought I'd bring it on and give it a spin, since it seemed to match my team's defensive synergy well, sharing few weaknesses with anything else while also walling certain attacks, like Water aimed at Primaldon.



Turns out, my defensive core was pretty crap in practice, despite working solidly on paper, so I had to toss it out. Megabro, despite being a physical tank, was actually disappointing at its job way too often. And Venusaur was kinda dead weight and way too passive. I was in the BH Ultimate League tournament at the time, so I consulted my teammates for some opinions.



Ferrothorn was suggested to me due to its typing and Flashfire allowed it to check all of my sets pretty well along with numerous opposing threats. Plus as a super slow pivot, and with a better move pool, it promised to perform much better.



Giratina was the best bet to patch up my remaining holes between Ferrothorn and Chansey, especially with my big Fighting weakness across three Pokemon now. Fortunately, Fighting is a rare typing, so it wasn't a big deal. Meanwhile, Chansey blocked the majority of Giratina's major weaknesses, so even without Ferrothorn, they made for a good defensive core.



With the omnipresence of anti-priority, Kyu-B wasn't doing its job against sweepers and was struggling to dent anything bulkier. I could deal with Psychic Surge, but Dazzling was crushing me. Undeterred, I switched to White form and dropped a Scarf on it, which turned out to be a better threat to both offense and defense alike. Many Mewtwos have been blasted thinking they could outspeed and do as they please.



Strategy

There isn't a specific wincon to this team. There's no "if I ensure X and Y happen, victory is guaranteed!" No, this one's pretty simple: the offensive half of the team basically act as a set of battering rams, hammering at the enemy's defenses until they crumble. The defensive half, meanwhile, deters enemy attacks and protects the rams until they can do their job. And once things have been smashed up enough, it's just a matter of cleaning up the remaining resistance.

Nothing really fancy here, the team is straight forward and pretty momentum based. Keeping control over the battle is key to this team since, against certain compositions, it can fall apart from a couple of mistakes. The offensive Pokemon have no longevity beyond their natural bulk, which isn't always much, and the defensive side is very limited on stall options, so protecting the attackers is key.

There are no set-up moves, beyond what you can steal from an opponent, so despite how simple this team is, it does require a lot of careful play. As such, if you are not an experienced player, I do not recommend trying to play or adapt this team! One botched decision can easily throw a match out of your control and send a win from your hands to your opponent's.


Team Breakdown



Manectric-Mega @ Icium Z
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch​

I apologize for the lack of nicknames. I was never able to figure out a naming theme for this team. I kinda wanted to name Manectric "Three Dog", but wasn't sure what to pair with that one.

"Because one dog ain't enough, and two is too low, it's me, Three Dog! Bringing you the Galvanize Boomburst, no mattert how bad it hurts.

Anyway, this particular set annoys most defensive Pokemon and threatens most of the offensive meta as well, outspeeding everything notable except Timid Mewtwo-Y, Alakazam-Mega, Mega-Aerodactyl, and Deoxys-Not Defense. It did great damage to everything it hit neutrally while happily drawing the attention of Zygarde-C, Giratina, and Primal Groudon. And then it eviscerated them. Z-Ice Beam OHKOed non-Assault Vest variants of Zygarde without fail. A favorite strategy of mine was to use Steam Eruption on a predicted switch to lull them into a false sense of security, only to wreck Zygarde later rather than risk them timidly manually switching away to dodge an Ice Beam. Primal Groudon was OHKOed by Steam Eruption on the same conditions, assuming it wasn't Water-immune. Fortunately, most immune Primal Groudons announced their protection with Desolate Land, so there was little risk of bopping a Water Absorb variant and losing Manectric as a result. Giratina needed some significant chip damage, but an Ice Beam followed by a Z-Ice Beam would do it in usually.

Aside from that, it was fast enough to pressure almost everything and Boomburst made neutral walls uncomfortable about sticking around while it was in. Finally, fast pivoting is a bit underrated I believe, as Manectric could Volt Switch on almost everything for free damage and switch to something safer. Even if they pivoted too, my switch dictated their switch, allowing me to control the flow of the battle.

Basically, this set slips into battle with the help of its allies, fire off attacks when its safe, and then ducks away to safety before it can be caught by something that can threaten it. And it also nukes a few popular walls by surprise too.

With Primal Groudon gone, I'd probably mix this and the Disruption set by replacing Steam Eruption with Encore. Earth Power is tempting, but Manectric hits Steels hard enough as is. If Swampert-Mega ever rises in popularity, Seed Flare or maybe simply Energy Ball might become a legitimate consideration.





Kyurem-White @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Earth Power
- Core Enforcer
- Trick​

Kyu-W's a bit underrated as well, I feel. With Fur Coat Zygarde and Giratina everywhere, why were nobody using THE Pokemon to break them? Diancie you say? Meh, it drops when you throw a metal fork at it.

This set is pretty self-explanatory. Boomburst hard, and, with a Scarf, also fast enough to threaten the entire unboosted offensive meta. Earth Power is coverage when I need it and Trick cripples walls and a few other sets. Core Enforcer, looks good on paper for nailing switch-ins. In practice, Boomburst just worked better. I had planned to figure out a better alternative here, but being forced to take a break from battle for about two months didn't give me the chance and, with suspect voting almost over when I returned, was no sense in working on this team until after the results were in since swapping Primaldon might change the composition considerably.




Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick​

Pretty much a standard Primaldon set. Nuke with V-Create and Thousand Arrows, depending on opposing team composition, Sunsteel Strike Shedinja and certain Fur Coat users, and Trick to troublesome walls. Simple, straight forward, and stupidly effective.




Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Milk Drink
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Image was just so derpy looking I just had to use it.

Despite lowish stats for BH, Ferrothorn has the right spread and typing to make for a surprisingly effective wall. Especially with Flashfire, which removes its crippling weakness, and only common one left is Fighting, which is hardly used outside of STAB, Contrary, and Gengar. In particular, this set could happily switch into most Primaldon sets and gleefully remove their items and abilities, making them easier to handle. Taking a Banded Precipice to the face often didn't work but... that somehow hardly ever happened. People for whatever reason assumed Ferrothorn wasn't Fire-immune. *shrugs*

But honestly, that's Ferro's main role: be a pain in the butt before slow pivoting out to the next wall or to bring in an offensive Pokemon safely. Almost nothing meta relavent outslows Ferrothorn, so when I wanted to slow U-Turn, I got my slow U-Turn.




Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 SpA / 0 Spe
- Soft-Boiled
- Metal Burst
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock​

A fairly standard Fur Coat Chansey. Metal Burst pretty much OHKOes anything that hits Chansey decently hard, making opponents wary about attacking even if they can break it. Parting Shot is for pivoting and makes grabbing momentum even easier. Stealth Rock... mostly for Shedinja and breaking Sashes, really! Primaldon can't switch into Shed, so getting hazards going is a more reliable way to deal with it.



Giratina @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Recover
- Defog
- Spectral Thief
- Baton Pass

Credit provided!

Shout out to ElMustacho for the ability suggestion here. It works wonderfully and Misty Surge is sooooorely unnderrated. Originally it was added as a way to break Psychic Terrain for Kyu-B, but even without priority of my own, the anti-status is amazing and even stops opposing Poison Healers from triggering their toxic orb. Most importantly though, it messes with Psychic Terrain sets, notably Mewtwo-Y, and the occasional Electric Terrain team.

Giratina has speed investment because it needs it to reliably deal with APS Mewtwo Y. At minimal speed, even stealing a Shell Smash allows Ytwo to outspeed it and KO with Spectral Thief. Giratina's bulk and removal of Psychic Terrain allows Giratina to manually switch into Mewtwo's Psychic attacks almost freely as long as its healthy, as even Specs Psycho Boost can't 2HKO anymore (barring a crit on any hits.)

Baton Pass is chosen as the pivoting move of choice because stealing boosts and passing them is fun! Of course, Imposter becomes a worry so, if one is on the field, it's often better for me to manually switch away to prevent them from copying the boosts and then passing them to retain them. If they manage to get in anyway, a dry switch to Chansey is my safest option, since Giratina can't touch it and Chansey can Metal Burst most whatever tries to use the boosts.



Known Weaknesses

-Set-up spam. With how carefully this team needs to step as is, and with Giratina not running an anti-set-up ability, lots of set-up can be problematic, as not only will they nuke my attackers, but my defensive core can handle boosted attacks for so long. Ironically, this makes team kinda bad on the low ladder, which is often set-up heaven. Conversely, it performs best in a tournament setting where you can be reasonably sure if your opponent uses set-up frequently and how they use it.

-Poison Heal Fairies, especially with Taunt. If Primaldon is weakened, or said Fairy just has a good, solid Water move, this team can struggle with them as Ferrothorn's Core Enforcer doesn't work and Giratina will find Spectral Thief to be a risky play. Taunt on top of that just shuts down all their recovery, severely limiting options this team has to stop the PH user.

-Mega-Kangaskhan. The defensive core is already often under a lot of pressure because of how important the offensive core's survival is. Mega-Mom's Parental Bond Nature's Madness spam just shreds them if Ferrothorn can't quickly stop it with Core Enforcer. If the opponent can add some additional offensive pressure or the right set-up sweeper on top of that while my defensive core tries to recover, the match heavily falls out of my favor. Luckily, Mega-Mom is pretty rare and often poorly played and supported. But when she's in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing? Eesh.


Dealing With Imposters

Because I'm sure this will be asked...

-Manectric is walled by the entire defensive core. Without an Icinium, Giratina is under little threat from it as long as Giratina is healthy. Random burns are a bit of a concern if Misty Terrain isn't up. Manectric itself can risk some of its health to pivot on it if I really need to.

-Kyurem is walled by Chansey, who nukes back with Metal Burst, and is why Kyu-W lacks Secret Sword. A healthy Ferrothorn can Core Enforce it in a pinch, allowing Giratina to wall it thanks to Misty Surge, and the same applies if Imposter switched into Core Enforcer. Kyu-W itself can outspeed as long as it hasn't chucked the Scarf away if the Imposter is weakened enough to make KOing it a possibility. A healthy Primaldon can nuke it with the proper move and Manectric outspeeds and can Z-Ice Beam if all else fails, though neither of these OHKO. Worst thing that can happen is if Chansey has lost its item and steals one of mine, especially my Chansey's Eviolite.

-Primaldon is walled by the entire defensive core, thanks to a lack of a Choice Band. Tinted Lens makes Giratina the shakiest check, oddly enough, but it works. Manectric can Steam Eruption it in a pinch and Kyu-W can go for an Earth Power if necessary, but these are only reliable if Imposter is weakened. Primaldon also prevents a manual switch-in with its Thousand Arrows and Tinted V-Create. Same danger to trick applies.

-Ferrothorn mostly poses a threat to my items. Many Imposters won't stay in if they still have Eviolite, since its way more valuable than my Leftovers. Usually though, my actions depend on their behavior. Best case scenario, I lose two speed ties, allowing me to Core Enforce away Flash Fire and then slow pivot to Primaldon, giving me a free V-Nuke turn.

-Biggest threat is opposing Chansey setting hazards, so I'll usually manual switch to Giratina if they're not up yet so I can remove them. Hitting Chansey with my attackers is a terrible idea unless it burns its Metal Burst PP, in which case I'm free to attempt an attack if I want. Otherwise, it's mostly waiting for Imposter to get bored and leave or run out of Metal Burst and/or recovery PP.

-If I've just stolen boosts and opponent has an Imposter they can bring in safely somehow, I'll almost always manual switch away to avoid the Imposter copying them unless its critical I do something else that turn. If the Imposter copies my boosts, swap to Chansey and prepare my Metal Bursts, which frequently deters them from bringing in something offensive. If no boosts are in play, then Kyu-W's Boomburst is the best bet, though Manectric and Groudon can pose a threat too, especially if Z-Ice Beam and Choice Band are still in my hand. Giratina usually loses to its own Imposters and gets hit fairly hard with Spectral Thief, so sticking around to fight is usually a waste of my recovery PP at best.


Replays

As of this edit, replays seem to be working, but replay search is not. So, I'll get down what I got on-hand, but hopefully I'll be able to get some more soon.


- vs. SilverLucario in the Balanced Hackmons Ultimate League This was one of the first successful versions I was comfortable bringing to serious competitive play, so has a few differences such as Manectric running Safety Goggles + Spore.


Manectric-Mega @ Icium Z
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch

Kyurem-White @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Earth Power
- Core Enforcer
- Trick

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Milk Drink
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 SpA / 0 Spe
- Soft-Boiled
- Metal Burst
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock

Giratina @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Recover
- Defog
- Spectral Thief
- Baton Pass
 
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Hey, nice team! Just wanting to gauge the success of this team, can you give some peak and proof?

Other than that it's a nice meme.
 
Replays aren't working, so I'm missing most of my proof. Searching any of my alts on the Replays section brings up nothing and using any of my saved replay links gives me an error saying "the game expired, you should save a replay in the future." >.>

If the replays decide to start working, here's a tournament level replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-585854059

In the mean time, I don't ladder with one team exclusively on alt unless I'm trying to prove something for a suspect discussion, so I don't really have a "peak" for this team, nor a comprehensive W/L record. However, I did use it to achieve reqs in the Trapping suspect, playing from about ~1300 on to reqs. Woulda used it for Primaldon suspect, but Real Life™ had devoured all my free time for about two months straight and didn't let up until about six hours before the suspect ended. And, well, no ways to play 30-70 matches to earn reqs. But yeah, I really need my replays to work for "proof".

Also, its not really a meme team. Part of the reason for this team was to gather proof for my Manectric nominations to the BH VR. This is nothing like the meme teams I can build.
 

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