Arceus-Ground [QC 0/3]

[Joyverse]

[OVERVIEW]
* With base 120 stats all over the board and an expansive movepool enables it to have several possible sets making it a versatile presence in the metagame. It's speed tier makes it one of the fastest threats in this otherwise slow metagame. Solid Ground-typing lets it check and take down Stealth Rock setters like Primal Groudon and dangerous offensive threats like Mega Lucario.
* It makes for a great Defogger to have and it run it most, if not all types of team archetypes.
* With decent coverage options in Ice Beam and Stone Edge, it can checks several threats like Landorus, Mega Salamece, Rayquaza, Ho-Oh, Mega Lucario and, Yveltal.
* If not run as a support set. Arceus-Ground can take control of the battlefield with a Swords Dance set that has an easier time against the likes of Ho-Oh and Blissey.
* It faces stiff competition from other Support Arceus formes for the role of defogger. With USM adding Defog in the learnsets of many old threats like Xerneas and Yveltal also adds to the competition.
* Like every other Arceus forme that isn't Dark, it is liable to the Shadow Tag shenanigans of Gothitelle. And it is walled by Chansey and Blissey at any given moment. While it can cripple Ho-Oh and Lugia with Toxic, it generally can't do anything else against them.



[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Recover
move 4: Defog / Toxic / Stealth Rock
item: Earth Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
* Judgment is for hitting threat like Primal Groudon, Mega Lucario and, Mega Diancie for Super-Effective damage.
* Ice Beam takes care of threats that otherwise are immune to the Ground-type Judgment such as Yveltal and Mega Salamence. It also helps it to deal significant damage to Zygarde.
* Recover is used to increase its longevity over the length of the battle. It also helps it to be able to consistently check the aforementioned as it is prone to be getting weared out.
* Defog is to help keep hazards off the field. Given its advantageous offensive typing, it tends to force common hazard setters such as Primal Groudon and Necrozma-DM.
* If you have another hazard controller in your team, then you can opt for Toxic as it helps in crippling usual switch-ins to it such as Lugia or Ho-oh.
* It can use Stealth Rock as well as it generally tends to anti-lead most Stealth Rock setters and force them out without them havings set up.

Set Details
========
* With a spread of 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe with a Timid nature, you outpace the likes of Mega Metagross and Mega Lucario.
* A specialized spread of 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe can also be used. This lets it outspeed max base 100s and fattens it up further.

Usage Tips
========
* Switching into Primal Groudon or Necrozma-DM will more often than not force them out. This'll give you a free turn to remove away setup Stealth Rock. Switching it into predicted switches of the previously mentioned threats will help you keep the momentum intact.
* It can easily be used to revenge-kill threats like unboosted Mega Salamence, Mega Lucario, Primal Groudon, Necrozma-DM and, Rayquaza.
* If running Stealth Rock, you can very easily lead with it as it'll generally tend to force out the opposing leads such as Primal Groudon.
* Using Toxic on predicted Yveltal, Ho-Oh or, Lugia switchins is an advisable play. Additionally it should be wary of Toxic from the mentioned threats as this makes it weak to Hex Mega Gengar that can then revenge kill.
* While it does check Primal Groudon, it can't freely switch into variants that run Fire Blast, Overheat or, Eruption as it gets severely dented by it. A predicted switch-in could also mean that Arceus can be hit by Toxic.
* Be very careful when playing against teams that have a Gothitelle as once it comes in to trap you, your Arceus is not surviving the ordeal due to the combination Calm Mind and Psyshock while it can shrug off any damage and status with Rest.

Team Options
========
* Primal Groudon is an excellent teammate for Arceus-Ground as it checks Primal Kyogre which can easily OHKO Arceus with an Origin Pulse. More offensive variants of Primal Groudon appreciate the hazards set by it which help it to tear through opposing teams. Additionally it can take of Chansey and Blissey which Arceus can't otherwise dent with this set. If it runs a Fire-STAB move, then it can dispatch the likes of Celesteela, Skarmory and Ferrothorn out from the field.
* Ferrothorn helps it in checking Primal Kyogre, Celesteela that lack Fire-type coverage and Z-Geomancy Xerneas.
* Necrozma-DM helps in checking Xerneas, especially if it is using the Tank spread. Magearna can take care of Geomancy variants of Xerneas very well.
* Choice Scarf Yveltal helps in taking care of Ultra Necrozma which otherwise gives Arceus a very hard time if it sets up. It also checks offensive variants of Necrozma-DM.
* Chansey and Blissey are very helpful partners as they can cure Arceus from any status conditions such a Toxic Poisoning which otherwise puts it on a timer.
* Offensive Ho-Oh can severely dent Steel-types and can break a lot of defensive cores and spread Toxic around. More defensively inclined variants check Marshadow, Celesteela, Necrozma-DM and Mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Recover / Substitute / Extreme Speed
item: Groundium-Z
ability: Multitype
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
* Swords Dance boosts Arceus hitting power. This enables it to severely dent or downright OHKO the likes of Primal Groudon, Necrozma-DM, Primal Kyogre and, most Support Arceus formes with Earthquake.
* Stone Edge covers threats like Ho-Oh, Lugia, Mega Salamence, Yveltal, and Rayquaza making it a very potent late-game cleaner.
* The fourth move depends on how you want your sweeper to function or how the team needs it. Recover helps it heal off any unnecessary damage it might have taken and keep it on the field longer. Substitute can be used to save it from status moves such as Glare from Zygarde and Toxic from Necrozma-DM or Giratina. Additionally Extreme Speed helps it to pick off or revenge kills threats that are usually faster than it such as Deoxys-A and Geomancy Xerneas.

Set Details
========
* A simple sweeper spread of 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe with Jolly nature makes its offensive presence known in the battlefield. This further helps when it racks up on the Swords Dance furthering its terrifying presence.
* Groundium-Z with Earthquake gives it the ability to shoot off a 180 BP Tectonic Rage which takes care of fat threats.

Usage Tips
========
* Bring it on to threats such as Primal Groudon or Magearna which are generally forced out and use it set up a Swords Dance and sweep.
* If helps in setting up a Substitute if you face threats such as Glare Zygarde-C as any status moves get blocked. Recover helps versus threats such as Ferrothorn or Non-Toxic Support Arceus formes and helps it to set up all the way to +6.
* While most Support Arceus formes and Defensive Primal Kyogre topple to a +2 Tectonic Rage, defensive behemoths like Zygarde-C and Giratina require an additional boost to take down.


Team Options
========
* Yveltal help in taking down Giratina, Giratina-O and, Zygarde-C which generally phazes it away. Arceus in return helps it by removing the likes of Xerneas, Magearna and Ho-Oh from the field. Bulkier spreads check Marshadow which otherwise can steal its stats boosts with Spectral Thief.
* Xerneas helps in taking care of Bulky Yveltal, Mega Salamence and the threats mentioned above. With SD Arceus around, Geomancy Xerneas has an easier time to take of the opposition with its checks dispatched.
* Primal Groudon with Fire STAB move helps it in covering the likes of Celesteela and Skarmory which would otherwise wall it for days. It also covers Primal Kyogre and Xerneas which can significantly damage Arceus.
* Mega Gengar helps it to trap and beat Ultra Necrozma which severely dents Arceus or Lugia which can annoy Arceus with a combination of Roost, Toxic and Ice Beam or rather just phaze it away with Whirlwind or Dragon Tail.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Ice Beam / Thunder
move 4: Recover
item: Earth Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
* Calm Mind boosts Arceus' Special Attack and Special Defense to higher levels. This makes it strong enough to dent several foes such as Magearna, Primal Groudon and Yveltal with the right move alongside being able to survive high-powered special moves from the likes of Xerneas or Yveltal.
* Judgment is needed to deal heavy damage against the likes of Primal Groudon, Necrozma-DM, Magearna and Mega Lucario. Ice Beam covers for threats that can take on Judgment such as Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, Yveltal and, Lugia.
* Additionally, Thunder can be used to deal heavier damage to the likes of Primal Kyogre, Arceus-Water, and Lugia. It also hits Ho-Oh, Celesteela and Skarmory for much better damage but you lose the chance to reliably damage Zygarde-C and Mega Salamence.
* Recover helps Arceus to keep racking up on multiple Calm Mind boosts and not get it KO'd to a stray hit.

Set Details
========
* An upgrade to the support set. CM makes use of the sheer bulk to load up Calm Mind boost and destroy the opposition while being shrugging off most special moves with ease. The general Support spread of 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe with a Timid nature maximizes its bulk while letting it achieve the highest speed.
* Earth Plate turns Judgment into a Ground-type move.

Usage Tips
========
* Use the forced switches that Arceus provides against the likes of Primal Groudon and Mega Lucario to set up and pummel away.
* Make sure checks to Arceus such as Ho-Oh, Lugia, Celesteela and Blissey are removed before it starts setting up.

Team Options
========
* Mega Lucario and Mega Salamence are great partners to have as they help remove Chansey and Blissey who wall CM Arceus continuously.
* Zygarde can be used to check Celesteela, Bronzong and, Ho-Oh as it cripples them with Glare and can take care of them with Thousand Arrows
* SD Primal Groudon can take care of both Ho-Oh and Celesteela as well with a combination of Fire Punch and Stone Edge.
* Mega Diancie checks Ho-Oh and it also gives Blissey and Chansey a hard time thanks to Diamond Storm.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
* Will-o-Wisp can be run to cripple physical attackers like Marshadow, SD Ultra Necrozma, Extreme Killer Arceus, Arceus-Ghost and opposing Arceus-Ground.
* Ice Beam can be used with Swords Dance over Stone Edge to better take on Zygarde and Mega Salamence in exchange for losing the ability to hit Ho-Oh for super-effective.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Gothitelle**: Just like with any other Support Arceus forme. Goth can trap and boost with Calm Mind and take it down with Psyshock while Arceus can't anything much in return.

**Steel-Types that are immune to Ground moves**: Pokemon like Celesteela, Skarmory and, Bronzong can annoy Arceus as they are immune to its STAB and take close to nothing from its coverage moves. They can Toxic it back in return, crippling it in the long run.

**Bulky Water-Types**: Arceus-Water and Primal Kyogre can generally shrug of a move or two and retaliate with a strong STAB Judgment or Origin Pulse in return. However SD variants generally have it easy against them.

**Zygarde-C**: Zygarde-C can wall Swords Dance variants of Arceus and can cripple it with Dragon Tail or Glare and phaze it out with Dragon Tail. It also lives a +2 Tectonic Rage making it a dangerous presence against it. Support variants generally have an easier time against it.

**Ho-Oh**: It can stall out Support and CM versions of Arceus very easily. Unless it carries Toxic or Stone Edge, Ho-Oh always win against it.

**Arceus-Grass**: It generally doesn't care about Ice Beam or Stone Edge from Arceus-Ground and resists its STAB moves. It can retaliate back with Grass Knot.

**Chansey and Blissey**: Although SD variants can take care of them, they can stall out the other versions with ease.

**Status**: Status really cripples it. It is highly susceptible to Glare from Zygarde-C and Toxic from the likes of opposing Support Arceus, Ho-Oh, Celesteela and Lugia which puts it on a timer.

 

[Joyverse]

This is ready for QC.

 

[zolaski]

amcheck implement what u find right ect

overview:
- no its not good vs defensive necrozma dm, it outright lose to that if the opponent play well with toxic/sr, you can add that its a decent check to stuff like mgar and mluke. merge the first point with the third
- add a point between the first and the second one about how its versatile, and can be runned in most common archetypes
- second point: ground isnt a good defensive type, but its one of the best offensive types, ground + ice/rock coverage is good
- add a point where u talk about SD groundceus, its good ect ect
- last point: mention celesteela, talk about defogceus being vulnerable to toxic, mention what defog waterceus/fairyceus does better than groundceus
- add somewhere that even if it is a decent check to pdon, it still fails to check effeciently mixed rp/ eruption/overheat varient with toxic

set: defog
* Judgment is for hitting hazard setters like Primal Groudon, Excadrill and, Necrozma-DM for Super-Effective damage.
reword and mention simple targets, not hazard setters

jw why max/max is the main spread when it doesnt much apart tie'ing with max speed mence (bad) and max speed ceus, without toxic for the last its useless, the 192 speed + timid should be the main spread but thats up to qc.

toxic should be slashed into ice beam too, up to qc again.

usage tips:

- add some point about being wary from toxic users such as yvetal band hooh defensive necro dm ect, it makes it weak to mgar hex
- add that it shouldnt be switching in pdon freely and should be wary from toxic / overheat varients
- play aggro against gothitelle teams too

team options:

- Ferrothorn helps it in checking Primal Kyogre
devellop this point, ferrothorn check zgeo and scarf xern to an extent, has spikes, can check stuff like opposing defogceus, celesteela without fire move, defensive zyg, but it also makes the team even more weak to gothi
- * Magearna helps it in checking Geomancy Xerneas which would otherwise make short work of Support Arceus.
* Necrozma-DM helps in checking Xerneas.
merge those two, say they both check most xern sets and can also support with SR/Toxic or HealBell/slow volt switch, and groundceus can check pdon for them
- * Choice Scarf Yveltal helps in taking care of Ultra Necrozma which otherwise gives Arceus a very hard time if it sets up.
+ checks necro dm with rp/weakness policy
- mention blissey/chansey, they're useful as clerics in more defensive teams, and can check cm ceus/yvetal/xern/pogre. mention xern in the same point that it can run aroma
- mention zygarde defensive, second check to pdon, spread status, and check hooh. mention lugia and gira in the same line, does the same in the defensive teams.
- add hooh, band / offensive can break alot of defensive cores and steel-types and spread toxic, the defensive varient can check yveltal, xern, marshadow, mixed rp pdon.
- add msab, can bounce back toxic hazards from toxic/pblade pdon, opposing ceus, defensive necrozma-dm, and can check celesteela, ferro, toxa, LO marshadow, and mgar.

set: SD
- imo you should unslash espeed and give it a point in set moves, give a point for sub alone and a point for recover alone. Substitute should be the first pick like that too "Substitute / Recover" but up to qc again.
- add that sub helps u to set against celesteela, defensive zyg (tanks one dtail + 1000arrows is a roll iirc), blissey, making it a decent set vs stall

usage tips:
- * If helps in setting up a Substitute if you face threats such as Glare Zygarde-C as any status moves get blocked. Recover helps versus threats such as Ferrothorn or Non-Toxic Support Arceus formes and helps it to set up all the way to +6.
reword and mention the threats u mentionned in set moves for sub, recover doesnt help vs ferro unless it doesnt run power whip (bad.)
- add that its should use its zmove cautiously in the third point
- add that it should be wary of marshadow before setting up, as it can steal its boosts even behind a sub.
- mention that sub variant is good against sweb/exca offenses, sub + sd making it hard to check without making 1 kill or more

'ill edit with more later

keep up the good job joy!

 

[Joyverse]

Added most of your checks for the Support variants. Will go through it again and refix it soon! :D

Thanks a lot!

 

[zolaski]

Don't imply that Groundceus is defog or x set in the overview, reword. Unslash Extreme Speed but keep the point in set moves in the SD set, unless someone say otherwise.

SD: Team options:
Yveltal Defensive keep in check those, mention that scarf is useful too give momentum (uturn) and check mgar and marshadow.
Add SR support:pdon necrozma dm and exca
add ferrothorn, checks pogre and spikes support is great
add pogre, beats most of groundceus checks such zyg-a, all ceus, celesteela, and groundceus and pogre break most stalls on their own
add mence, defensive can defog and chip opposing supportceus with toxic and double edge, offensive can clean after groundceus beat steels

Calm Mind:
Thunder then Ice Beam, change the order in the set moves, mention that thunder's low accuracy can matter sometimes and that it cannot hit gira-o and remove the part where you say it doesnt hit hard enough mence and zyg. Add a Ice Beam point cus u forgot it.
usage tips are lame, add more examples about setup fodders and when you should setup, add agaisnt which kind of archetype this works the best, add how to keep healthy (hint: hazard toxic and recover on mons that cant 2HKO)

Team options:
Add toxapex for toxic spikes and toxic, toxic switchin
Add choice scarf xerneas: can defog, keep in check ultra necrozma, marshadow, and dragons
remove zygarde, mention Primal Groudon and its support set instead of SD, set SR can spread toxic and keep in check steels.
remove mdiancie, it doesnt fit with groundceus imo.
add defensive mence.

OO: remove Ice beam, add refresh for the first set
C&C: mention on gothi point that its a setup fodder for SD too
mention ferrothorn in the second point
no hooh doesnt win against thunder cm, mention that it can toxic or force it out if offensive
instead of zygarde point makes it "physically defensive walls" and mention lugia and gira-a

QC 1/3 after you implement this and the first part with all the set changes (slashs ect)

 

[Minority]

Introduction

It's speed tier makes it one of the fastest threats in this otherwise slow metagame.

This point in the overview is overstated. There are many boosted Pokemon not only faster than Arceus, but many that are faster even when unboosted.

It makes for a great Defogger to have and it run it most, if not all types of team archetypes

This point doesn't make any sense. If you mean to say that it's a great defogger that fits on all team archetypes I'd disagree - it gives up too much momentum to use on HO.

With decent coverage options in Ice Beam and Stone Edge, it can checks several threats like Landorus, Mega Salamece, Rayquaza, Ho-Oh, Mega Lucario and, Yveltal

Whenever you list Pokemon like this, always list them in order of relevance. Under basically no circumstances can Landorus be considered more notable than Mega Salamence.

If not run as a support set. Arceus-Ground can take control of the battlefield with a Swords Dance set that has an easier time against the likes of Ho-Oh and Blissey

This point also doesn't make much sense. Not only is the grammar off, listing options for sets like this isn't notable for the overview.

It faces stiff competition from other Support Arceus formes for the role of defogger.

It does? From what? Only a few Arceus are commonly used as Defoggers, and Arceus-Ground is one of the premier forms.

Like every other Arceus forme that isn't Dark, it is liable to the Shadow Tag shenanigans of Gothitelle. And it is walled by Chansey and Blissey at any given moment. While it can cripple Ho-Oh and Lugia with Toxic, it generally can't do anything else against them.

None of these things are true of the Swords Dance set. Overview information should be generalized for the Pokemon.

Support

Slash Toxic with Ice Beam. In set details justify your choice to use 68 Def EVs and not maximum Speed. You must justify the key benchmarks this hits, because it's a departure from maximum Speed.

Swords Dance

Slash Earth Plate after Z Crystal. Mention why in set details (already using a z move, consistent power vs. one time move).

Other Options

Ice Beam can be used with Swords Dance over Stone Edge to better take on Zygarde and Mega Salamence in exchange for losing the ability to hit Ho-Oh for super-effective.

I don't care much for this, despite being OO. With SE + Extreme Speed you're already pretty good vs. Mence and with Z Crystal you can already mess with Zygarde. I've run things like Ice Beam on EKiller all the time, but I've never had a reason to run in on SD Arceus-Ground.

Mention Tailwind on the SD set here instead of Recover. Mention Refresh too. I'd also mention Perish Song for the Swords Dance set to emergency check setup sweepers. There's some other wack stuff you can run too.

Checks and Counters

There's a number of Pokemon missing here. Please move through the entire VR or a USM threatlist and assign them accordingly. Top checks should be generalize - i.e. they perform well against all Arceus-Ground sets. Order by judgment of viability + effectiveness. General ailments that aren't Pokemon such as "status" or "entry hazards" should always go last.


Fix all of these things and I'll stamp.