You talk about needing to change the meta by possibly banning pokemon, but according to you and
Articuno I not even the most broken (Mega Salamence) is deserving of a ban.
How could you possibly know with such accuracy how the meta will change after a bunch of bans? What is the "broken factor" in 1v1, and what does contribute to it? I'm trying to start a discussion of potentially broken pokes in 1v1 and you're deciding that they aren't, just because. Why would the meta be more dull if it had a wider diversity (which is what I'm arguing would happen in a non-Ubers setting) of available viable pokes?
Let's take a moment and apply what you said to the Ubers tier.
"In each metagame we have the OU Pokemon and the UU Pokemmon and we don't ban OU Pokemon just for the sake to make UU Pokemon appreciated and used, there's such thing called OU that could be played on the ladder if bored of facing the same threats over and over again. But even with the presence of powerful top tier Pokemon in Ubers, OU and lower tier Pokemon can still outshine them, example being that Amoonguss can beat Xerneas, or Skarmory can beat Arceus. This is the magic of Ubers that you have to create sets that has a great matchup against most of the metagame taking into consideration low tier and top tier Pokemon. Yes, I find Ubers dull to the same Pokemon repeating themselves on ladder but No, I don't agree banning them would solve the problem and if people think such Pokemon are broken and destroy their teams with ease, well we need to think outside the box. There's plenty of Pokemon in Ubers with niches that aren't discovered yet. ... let's not forget Ferrothorn that can take on lot of threats, so we just need to find niches about every OU and lower Pokemon and they will have the right to be counted as top tier checks. A team with Ferrothorn, Mega Sableye and Clefable can fare good in the ladder and thus without using a team of only top ranked Pokemon. And because we have the power to ban something we shouldn't go ban happy and restrict our wide metagame to mere Pokemon that are counted nowadays underused or in a different category useless."
The OU pokemon of Ubers would in this case be pokes such as Arceus, Xerneas, Kyogre, and Rayquaza for example. Are you seeing the point I'm trying to make now? Your logic would still apply to the Ubers tier and does nothing to refute what I've been saying at all. I've been saying that we have a few pokes in 1v1 right now that are much better than the rest of the pokes in the meta. Why should 1v1 be Ubers rather than OU?
The difference between OU and Ubers is that OU is a wider tier that allows much more pokes to be viable, and a huge deal of pokes from lower tiers are viable in OU compared to how much from lower tiers is viable in Ubers.
The difference with Mega Salamence from other pokes is mainly its broken stats, and not to mention its amazing ability, Aerilate, that works well with its flying type. Pokemon with stats like Mega Salamence and Kyurem-Black (700 BST and the likes) get judged much more strictly, and get banned to Ubers unless there's something holding them back, if not, there would be no reason not to use them (which is the case in 1v1). There should be a compelling reason to keep them, rather looking for a compelling reason to ban, because that reason already exists, which is their base stats. And why is that? Because those stats are far above the rest of the pokes, which makes the game unfair. Why use pokes of lower stats when you can use broken stats? Kyurem-Black for example is not banned from OU because it lacks good ice type STAB, and Hoopa-U gets destroyed by the slightest physical attack. Kyurem-Black however is much stronger in 1v1, because it can run among other sets, choice item sets, which don't have nearly the same repercussions as they would have for it in OU.
There is nothing about 1v1 that makes Mega Salamence any less banworthy than from OU. It pulls off whatever role it has been assigned, and will in the process also beat a significant portion of pokes just because of its broken stats. And the fact that it has checks and counters should not be a reason not to ban, because as i keep repeating, all pokes have checks and counters. Otherwise, why not unban Rayquaza, it would probably have the same checks and counters as Mega Salamence? But Rayquaza is banned because it, as Mega Salamence, takes out a significant portion of pokes, regardless of their roles, stats, or strats, just because of its broken stats, and the same goes for Kyurem-Black. The reason people don't complain about Kyurem-Black is that the meta has adjusted to it, and has access to other broken pokes such as Mega Mawile to deal with it.
Now as for some of the pokes you mentioned that should check Mega Salamence, Porygon-2 would need to run Ice Beam, which arguably would make it lose a bunch of other match-ups, and would still lose to a special HP invested MegaMence with Hyper Voice and Hyper Beam if physically defensive, Return and Giga Impact physical MegaMence if specially defensive, and to a mixed MegaMence set if mixed defenses. Anything (besides multi turn attacks) + Earthquake would beat Air Balloon Heatran, while Heatran wouldn't do enough damage. Mega Steelix would lose to Earthquake or Fire Blast, while not being able to do enough damage. Diancie would lose to Iron Tail (which MegaMence sometimes runs just to spite fairy types). Ampharos would get outsped and 2HKO'd while not being able to OHKO MegaMence, and if Ampharos relies on the move Counter, it could lose to substitute MegaMence. MegaMence could use Dragon Dance on the 1st turn vs Aegislash, and could OHKO Aegislash-Blade at +2 atk. Aegislash-Blade needs to use King's Shield at turn 2 if it attacked turn 1, or it would get OHKO'd, meanwhile MegaMence could use Dragon Dance again, Aegislash simply does not have the damage output to reliably KO MegaMence. And if the Aegislash has Air-Balloon, then a Fire Blast MegaMence could 2HKO it without any Weakness Policy repercussions. The point we've been trying to make is that to the contrary of what you're saying, MegaMence does
not have reliable answers that don't care about its set. You're basically pulling at straws here trying to justify keeping a poke that destroys such a large portion of available pokes and restricts teambuilding by listing a few checks.
Well, here we go again with justifying the unban of another uber by listing arguably broken pokes that inhabit the meta right now. This is another pointer as to why 1v1 has become a mini ubers. We have all of these arguably broken pokes, so why not unban another, right? Mega Salamence, Kyurem-Black, and to a lesser extent, the mega Charizards are all pokes I've mentioned being contributors to this ubers state right now.
And regarding the pokes you mentioned that beat Blaziken, is that the standard we set for what pokes should be allowed? A list of a few pokes, some of which are on specific sets?
And what do most of these pokes have in common? They resist Blaziken's STAB(s) while their own STAB(s) are super effective against Blaziken.
- faster trace pokemon, AKA Alakazam: one of the fastest pokes with Super Effective STAB against Blaziken, outsped and OHKO'd unless using Trace
- Salamence-Mega: resists both STABs while having Super Effective Flying STAB, arguably the most broken poke in the meta right now
- Victini: resists both STABs while having Super Effective Psychic STAB, also outsped and OHKO'd by Earthquake or Stone Edge if not using Choice Scarf
- Hoopa-U: has super effective Psychic STAB, also limited to a specific set of Choice Scarf, loses otherwise
- Bulky Kyurem-Black: arguably broken poke, restricted to a bulky set, which loses to Blaziken anyway:
252+ Atk Choice Band Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 474-560 (104.4 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 413-486 (90.9 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
- Bulky Charizard-X: one of the pokes that contributes to this ubers state I'm trying to discuss, loses if not using a bulky set
- Rhyperior: has Super Effective Ground STAB, one of the few viable pokes that can live a STAB its weak to, and yet can still be OHKO'd by Blaziken:
252+ Atk Choice Band Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 393-465 (90.5 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
- Slowbro-Mega: resists both STABs while both its STAB's are Super Effective, one of the bulkiest possible pokes, especially in the Defense stat, which is more likely to be relevant vs Blaziken
- Jellicent: resists Blaziken's Fire STAB while immune to its Fighting STAB, while having Super Effective Water STAB, can lose to Thunder Punch coverage anyway if not fully HP/Def invested and running Acid Armor.
- Mandibuzz: OHKO'd by Life Orb Stone Edge Blaziken after 1 Swords Dance, while not being able to OHKO Blaziken itself
- Gyarados: has Super Effective Water STAB, loses to Thunder Punch if it used Dragon Dance, outsped and OHKO'd if it uses Waterfall vs Protect, OHKO'd by High Jump Kick if it goes Mega with the same scenario of using Dragon Dance or not vs using Protect or not
- Latios: resists both STABs while having Super Effective Psychic STAB, and yet still loses to Blaziken's insane coverage if not holding a Choice Scarf after a Speed Boost Protect:
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 343-406 (113.9 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Such pokes exist for pretty much any poke that could be brought up for discussion. And the ones you mentioned are restricted to very specific sets, while some of them don't even beat Blaziken at all.
Meanwhile it beats a significant enough portion of other common and less common pokes to be banworthy, thanks to its amazing coverage, ability to outspeed thanks to Speed Boost, while also being able to run Swords Dance.
You wanna talk about what it does to some of the less used pokes? I'll list some of the pokes I use, which are very viable against the current meta.
- Mega Venusaur: 2HKO'd by Life Orb or Choice Band Brave Bird
- Entei: outsped and OHKO'd by Earthquake or Stone Edge
- Dusclops: destroyed by any physical Blaziken set
- Porygon 2: destroyed by Fighting STAB
- Magnezone: destroyed by STAB or Earthquake, the Weakness Policy Magnezone set is played around by using a non-Super effective coverage 1st, while Magnezone can't OHKO Blaziken
You can fare well with these pokes even against this uber state meta (the magic of 1v1), are you telling me that these pokes should be rendered less relevant?
Even if that was OK, what about the rest of the common pokes that get rendered way less relevant? Just for the sake of bringing another poke that can go toe to toe with or even destroy the most used and overly powered pokes that we have right now in the meta?
I'm not arguing that they should be banned without any proof, I'm suggesting discussing a ban for them as they very likely are broken in
this meta, with the fact that some of them are in the uber tier taken as a strong hint and indicator that they are broken. And regarding the checks and counters you mentioned, they are arguably broken too, which only helps prove how broken Deo-D is. Also, the trick user would need to outspeed, and the faster Taunt user would need to be a relevant poke (there aren't many), which also would need some way of KO'ing the Deo without being KO'd istelf by Mirror Coat or Counter.
As with
Dream Eater Gengar , your logic could be applied to the Ubers tier.
"If all the mons in Ubers are countered by other mons in Ubers, clearly the metagame is, at least to some extent, balanced."
And you're right, it is to some extent balanced, but my point is that it would be much more diverse, and teambuilding would be much less restricted if the meta wasn't ubers. So contrary to what you said, I am suggesting the bans for no other reason than to balance the meta.
You mean aside from the actual reasons
LaxLapras and I provided?
Obviously if you've accepted the meta as it is then it would be hard to accept any ban at all, just as how pretty much nothing gets banned from Ubers. So let me ask you this: Do you want Rayquaza to remain banned from 1v1, and if so, why?