Alphabet Cup

[Albacore]

+2 = 2 x 2 = 4, meaning you outspeed everything without needing to invest in Speed (well, at least effectively go mixed)

Thing is, it doesn't need to go mixed thanks to Secret Sword. So it can just invest in bulk to live Bullet Punches.

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slurpuff: 216-256 (58.6 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And in return, Slurpuff OHKOs with any of its moves.

Gets wrecked by Banded Scizor, though. Although non-banded variants are beaten by Flamethrower variants.

Actually, it doesn't need to invest in HP, just Defense, since the only existing special priority can't touch it at all.

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Slurpuff: 168-200 (54.9 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Okay, it's only very slightly better, so perhaps not. But it's justifiable.

 

[Martingale]

Slurpuff of all varieties are casually checked by Aegislash, who only really needs to watch out for Searing Shot or Sacred Fire. Slurpuff without Fire coverage is an easy switch, taking a pittance from Fairy, immune to Sacred Sword, and tanking neutral damage. As far as I know Slurpuff gets no ground moves to end Aegi. Min speed Aegi, in return, can theoretically 1HKO 252Spe Slurpuff in Shield Forme using Gyro Ball. 4/252 builds fare no better against the sword. If somehow you manage to survive, Shadow Sneak. Any Steel with a bit of bulk can do a bit to Slurpuff no trouble, but Aegi gets special mention for the Secret Sword immunity.

252SpDef/HP MegaAggron takes it too, but again, Searing Shot does a number on it. Heatran takes Searing Shot effortlessly, but in a trade off with Aegislash gets 2HKO'd by +2 Secret Sword. Heatproof Bronzong just owns this thing though. (What?!? Heatproof Bronzong is viable? We're putting goddamn Swoobat in Ubers, welcome to Alphabet Cup.)

EDIT: suddenly ghost/fairy coverage from Shadow Ball... Eh... My points sort of still stand.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Slurpuff's amazing movepool of ground moves includes the almighty Sand Tomb, capable of trapping an unwary Aegislash and trapping his ass to death.

If he lives, that is.

Jokes aside, Slurpuff can also run Searing Shot, Shadow Ball or Sacred Fire (or some other weird shit) over Dazzling Gleam. Like, is DG even needed, when Stored Power murders the living fuck out of everything and their mom anyway?

Slurpuff can literally pick who counters it, and have an entire team built around it just to take out those counters. Actually, nvm, ffs Shadow Ball/Secret Sword is perfect enough coverage.

lol fuck this shit

every shell smasher has like fucking shadow ball secret sword sacred fire searing shot scald seed flare i dont even fucking know

you know what

let's just ban shell smash and be done with this shit. or stored power. or both. idfk.

honestly speaking i doubt shift gear/swords dance swoobat will ever be as broken as shell smash swoobat.

 

[Yayz]

every shell smasher has like fucking shadow ball secret sword sacred fire searing shot scald seed flare i dont even fucking know

you know what

let's just ban shell smash and be done with this shit. or stored power. or both. idfk.

honestly speaking i doubt shift gear/swords dance swoobat will ever be as broken as shell smash swoobat.

Hear, hear! We can either ban the letter s entirely (I think I hear Sesame Street crying) or we can limit s-mons to moves that share their first two letters (shell smash shuppet, for example), like I mentioned before. I like it a lot, actually.

 

[Pikachuun]

Hear, hear! We can either ban the letter s entirely (I think I hear Sesame Street crying) or we can limit s-mons to moves that share their first two letters (shell smash shuppet, for example), like I mentioned before. I like it a lot, actually.

Or, you know, we could just ban Shell Smash + Stored Power...

What? Nobody in STABmons got both and could really abuse them, did they?

EDIT: Except for Espeon.

 

[Albacore]

Yeah, I don't know why I mentioned Flamethrower when Searing Shot is clearly superior. Dazzling Gleam is great if you want to get past Sableye or Spiritomb, but Shadow Ball gets the best general coverage at the expense of power. Searing Shot still seems like the best choice for the fourth slot honestly, although you might want to be weird and try to troll priority users with Sacred Fire. Slurpuff seems like a slightly less broken and bulkier version Swoobat in general. It kinda reminds me of a lesser Kangaskhan, in the sense that you know 3 of its moves and the 4th one determines its counters. Dazzling Gleam is walled by a few Steel types, Searing Shot is defeated by Fighting-resistant Dark Types, and Shadow Ball covers everything and deals with Psychic-types but misses out on crucial KOs.

As I said before, we should really consider Yayz's proposal.

Or, you know, we could just ban Shell Smash + Stored Power...

What? Nobody in STABmons got both and could really abuse them, did they?

What about Meoletta?

 

[yikes]

Or, you know, we could just ban Shell Smash + Stored Power...

What? Nobody in STABmons got both and could really abuse them, did they?

Espeon got them, and when STABmons was OMOTM, it was #1 in usage. The other Eeveelutions got them, but they didn't abuse them as much. It was Espeon that was the major threat.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

tbh shell smash + stored power complex ban seems like the most feasible idea, although i'd rather avoid it =/

i think we can mostly agree that shift gear/swords dance swoobat isn't going to be lulzraeping teams anytime soon

after one shell smash stored power is now a 140 BP move with zero drawbacks (ZERO!) that also runs off a pokemon's doubled special attack stat. i think we can pretty much scream overpowered wrt that, especially when swoobat gets another 6 more positive stages because of simple (which makes it a 260 BP attack. off a tripled special attack stat. and has fucking STAB.)

the problem is that we have so many shit with smashstore that it's not just slurpuff and swoobat who can abuse them. you've got things like salamence, sigilyph, staraptor, sylveon, and the like, all of which are just going to take over swoobat's spot if we kill off the bat. swoobat's ridiculous pretty much because of smashstore. non-smashstore swoobat is honestly a lot more manageable when it's no longer able to boost his special attack without CM, and when it's no longer outspeeding the entire damn metagame to the point when you literally need priority topsy-turvy/talonfag/mamofag/scizfag/priorifag to beat it.

fuck it, swoobat should be staying home. someone get smashstore out of here pls

Pikachuun : iirc the eeveelutions get smashstore in stabmons (stored power is an egg move for eevee)

 

[Albacore]

The only Pokemon who can really abuse SmashStore seem to be Swoobat, Surpluff, Sigilyph, Slowbro, Slowking and Starmie. The others would mach rather use their STABS. For instance, Sylveon's Hyper Voice is much more powerful than Stored Power. Draco Meteor makes much more sense on SmashMence, and although it had a major drawback, it has the same power, better coverage, a STAB boost, and you can just use either of your physical attacks afterwards. In fact, a great set for Mence would be Shell Smash / Sacred Fire / Draco Meteor / Storm Throw or Sacred Sword or Seed Bomb if you really hate Azumarill

 

[Pikachuun]

Espeon got them, and when STABmons was OMOTM, it was #1 in usage. The other Eeveelutions got them, but they didn't abuse them as much. It was Espeon that was the major threat.

Pikachuun : iirc the eeveelutions get smashstore in stabmons (stored power is an egg move for eevee)

...

However, simsims2800 did bring up the point that Espeon was #1 in usage because of it, so I guess that shows how broken Smashed Power is.

 

[TalkTakesTime]

So it looks like Swoobat is getting banned, but Martingale let me know the results when they are finally tallied and I'll implement them.
Also whoever it was who said that Joim's Lab is always barren: it might pay to organise matches beforehand or post in this thread what times you'll be available to play or something similar

 

[Mulan15262]

+4 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swoobat: 218-260 (79.2 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If SR is up when Swoobat switches in, Aegislash counters it.

 

[Pikachuun]

Might wanna verify your data...

EDIT: This has been changed to a 2HKO, so this post is invalid. Yay!

 

[Yayz]

+4 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swoobat: 218-260 (79.2 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If SR is up when Swoobat switches in, Aegislash counters it.

Protip: It's a counter if it can switch in on an attack, worst-case scenario, then kill it before getting killed. Upon switching in Aegislash dies, so it's a check because it only wins if it switches in safely.

EDIT: oh wow, I didn't even look at the percentages. :| Still gonna leave this protip here because it's still a good reminder to people.

 

[Mulan15262]

Might wanna verify your data...

You might want to verify yours. It takes 100% damage at minimum to OHKO. I do not see how 96.2% damage is greater than 100%. Unless you have 3 layers of Spikes or 1 layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock, or multiple shell smashes, it might not OHKO.

+4 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+4 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 2 layers of Spikes
+4 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes
+4 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

 

[Pikachuun]

You might want to verify yours. It takes 100% damage at minimum to OHKO.

Exactly my point. Look at your post again.

EDIT: Thanks for fixing it

 

[Mulan15262]

Exactly my point. Look at your post again.

Oh. I don't know how that got there. I fixed it, so now it accurately shows what it is supposed to show so others do not need to think about what I put.

 

[Martingale]

The results of the Swoobat ban vote are in!

Ban: Everyone
No ban: Nobody

So with that, Swoobat is banned and Alphabet Cup Ubers will have the cutesy nickname Swoobers. This crazy little bat was pretty much able to decimate everything with Shell Smash + Stored Power. While that combination will have to be looked at, maybe with the ultimate banning of Shell Smash as a means to an end, that's a debate for another day. For today, Swoobat is in Swoobers. OP will be updated momentarily to reflect this.

(Pinging TalkTakesTime for them updates)

 

[TalkTakesTime]

I have updated the banlist and it will be corrected after the next server update. I'm not making Alphabet Cup Ubers an actual tier though :p you can play that in custom games

 

[Martingale]

I have updated the banlist and it will be corrected after the next server update. I'm not making Alphabet Cup Ubers an actual tier though :p you can play that in custom games

Oh, I didn't mean to make it sound like Alphabet Cup Ubers should be a thing. More of the theoretical land where Swoobat can sit on its little fluffy cloud and enjoy retirement. :P

 

[Monte Cristo]

and just theorymonning for an uber version here:

Blaziken @ Lum Berry / Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Adamant | Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Knock Off / Protect
- Fire Punch / Blaze Kick
- High Jump Kick

Deoxys-A @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 76 Atk / 184 Spe
Hadty | Naughty | Mild Nature
- Defog
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Oh, I didn't mean to make it sound like Alphabet Cup Ubers should be a thing. More of the theoretical land where Swoobat can sit on its little fluffy cloud and enjoy retirement. :P

 

[xhig]

Not the best at making teams, but...what about Contrary Serperior with Leaf Storm, Superpower, Synthesis, and Protect? It'll probably be holding a Leftovers, and it wouldn't get amazing coverage, but it could manage.

EDIT: Screw Protect. Spiky Shield.

 

[Yayz]

Seems pretty solid, but I'm not sure if its worth using your s-slot for it. With max special defense investment it's pretty bulky, since superpower will buff its defense. 75/75 attacking stats aren't too hot, but then again, contrary.

 

[xhig]

Seems pretty solid, but I'm not sure if its worth using your s-slot for it. With max special defense investment it's pretty bulky, since superpower will buff its defense. 75/75 attacking stats aren't too hot, but then again, contrary.

Similarly, one could use a Contrary Shuckle or Spinda with Skill Swap in a Double Battle strategy with, say, a Hydreigon. Because Hydreigon could get Hydro Pump, Draco Meteor, Hammer Arm, and Dark Pulse, it would have coverage over every other pseudo-legendary and excellent coverage overall, with excellent speed and special attack buffs.

 

[Albacore]

Similarly, one could use a Contrary Shuckle or Spinda with Skill Swap in a Double Battle strategy with, say, a Hydreigon. Because Hydreigon could get Hydro Pump, Draco Meteor, Hammer Arm, and Dark Pulse, it would have coverage over every other pseudo-legendary and excellent coverage overall, with excellent speed and special attack buffs.

Whoa there, we've barely implemented Alphabet Cup in singles, we really shouldn't be discussing doubles right now!
Contrary mons are good in theory, but Spinda, Serperior and Shuckle don't really gain any good moves to abuse that ability and are overshadowed by other S-mons.